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View Full Version : Justice is a process, not a result...



Angelo Roncalli
12-12-2011, 03:41 PM
So let me see if I've got this straight....

Tu Holloway baits an opposing team into a brawl because a Cincinnati freshman player posted that Holloway wouldn't start for Cincy. After the brawl, he's takes the podium and rather than expressing remorse or responsibility, cops an attitude and uses terms of contempt and disrespect. One game on the bench for Tu.

The brawl participants are suspended for a handful of games, 6 for Yancy Gates being the max. 4 games is the max for any of the Xavier players.

These punishments are self-imposed by the universities involved, but receive the imprimatur of the Big East and the Atlantic 10 Conferences (remember, the A-10 receives its major revenue from the NCAA basketball tournament).

Guy Landry Edi plays in two games for a semi-pro team in France when he's 15 and two more when he's 16. He is paid a few Euro's. He is suspended for 8 games by Mark Emmert's NCAA, who won't even give him the courtesy of a timely response to his appeal.

75Zag
12-12-2011, 03:52 PM
Is seeking justice similar to a quest for things to be "fair"? The first time I told my parents that things were not fair, they told me that the fair was parked outside of town with a big white tent, a couple of lame horses, and a couple of ex-convicts operating a Tilt-A-Whirl. I learned never to complain about what was or was not "fair" ever again.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

GoZags
12-12-2011, 04:06 PM
One slight correction/addition, AR.

The Senior Leader and Captain Holloway, in addition to running his mouth -- threw the first blow -- a slap to the face with his right hand (out of sight of the ESPN camera). After getting slapped back he helped throw his opponent to the ground (with his left).

So not only did he start it by his assinine mouthing off -- he struck the first blow.

The view from the classy X student section is here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz23t5K9D9E

kclubfounder
12-12-2011, 04:21 PM
I choose to look at the bright side. I'm happy Guy will be playing soon. I'm hoping the suspension gave him valuable time to watch, assess, and learn how the D1 game is played while champing at the bit to play. I'm thinking he will give the team a boost to the season in the same way that a great 6th man can give a boost to a game.

If Xavier wasn't on our schedule at the exact time when longer suspensions would be helpful to us, we wouldn't have a thread like this one. Heck, we wouldn't even care about the story any more.

I think the Xavier players are more at fault than Cincinnati. Being a poor winner is worse than being a poor loser in my book. Actually, the Xavier coach was perhaps the most at fault for leaving his starters in all the way to the finish in a 20+ point win - especially considering the smack talk and obvious tension that made the fight almost predictable with the retrospectroscope.

That being said, I'd rather play them with all their players. If we beat them with a bunch of suspended players we won't get the proper credit. If we lose to them without any suspended players it won't hurt very much. It's a can't lose game without suspensions. With suspensions, it is a can lose game.

SunDevilGolfZag
12-12-2011, 04:45 PM
Apparently winning games is the most important thing to the administration at Xavier when their "student-athlete gansters" get to act the way they did and then flap their jaws in the media with little repercussion. I wonder if any of their alums are calling the adminstration out on this one. I would be if this was my alma mater.

MDABE80
12-12-2011, 06:08 PM
Thugs with uniforms....and the mouthy one escapes.

JAGzag
12-12-2011, 06:30 PM
Thugs with uniforms....and the mouthy one escapes.

Correction, Abe - they are "gansters" but not "thugs". :lmao:

Zig-Zag
12-12-2011, 07:56 PM
But give the Xavier Student Section thier credit for showing how much class they have by chanting F--K UC for 10 mins at end of game as UC was being escorded off court. :fingergun:

Zag 77
12-12-2011, 08:34 PM
Maybe I am living in dreamland, but I have always thought (with some evidence) that those of us who attended Jesuit schools were bound by some common ideals and common experiences. I have met alums from Marquette, Creighton, Fairfield, LMU, SCU and always felt we had a common bond.

Excuse my language, but this nutless response by Fr. Graham does some real disrespect to XU's mission statement and the ideal of Jesuit education to prepare future leaders with the tools to serve society and the Church.

Zagineer
12-12-2011, 11:27 PM
Maybe I am living in dreamland, but I have always thought (with some evidence) that those of us who attended Jesuit schools were bound by some common ideals and common experiences. I have met alums from Marquette, Creighton, Fairfield, LMU, SCU and always felt we had a common bond.

Excuse my language, but this nutless response by Fr. Graham does some real disrespect to XU's mission statement and the ideal of Jesuit education to prepare future leaders with the tools to serve society and the Church.

Well, 77, if you are living in dreamland, you're not alone. I've had the same experience, just different colleges and universities. SU, UP, SMC, SCU, LMU, USD, Regis, Marquette, Rockhurst, Fairfield, and Holy Cross. And I'm sure there are many more of us. :)

As to your second paragraph, I have to fall back on AR's OP title, Justice is a process. But, AR, you did leave out one word. I think you meant to say, Justice is a sloooooowwwww process (which is not necessarily a bad thing). I can only hope that the XU administration still has this incident as an open topic,.... case unclosed, and will ultimately do the right thing, whatever that is,.... because I sure don't know what that is, because I don't have all the facts.

All I know right now, in my opinion, is that the public image of what a Jesuit institution of higher learning is all about,..... as preceived by the masses of people that are not familiar with the Catholic faith or the Jesuit Order,...... has been severely tarnished. It will take years to recover.

And that's what saddens me the most, because it has a negative impact on all Jesuit institutions to some degree.

I can also see the XU Administrative staff working extra hours and weekends re-forecasting the revenue stream for the remainder of this year and the next. It will surely have a negative impact on future donation revenue.

SWZag
12-13-2011, 12:18 AM
At least we don't have to worry about losing Edi to criminal charges.

Ohio Prosecutor Will Consider Criminal Charges After Cincinnati - Xavier Basketball Brawl (http://www.newser.com/article/d9rjcpv80/ohio-prosecutor-will-consider-criminal-charges-after-cincinnati-xavier-basketball-brawl.html)

SWZag

Reborn
12-13-2011, 07:32 AM
What is most striking to me as I look at the punishments that were dished out is that there is certainly something wrong when Cinncinatti suspends four players for six games and Xavier suspend two for two games and the guy who started this whole thing to one game.

I agree with most of what has been said here about Xavier. It is quite clear that they do not have the integrity that Cincinnatti does, and that this is a sad thing for all Jesuit institutions. I have always respected Xavier and for the first time they've lost my respect. And I'm sure that millions of people feel the same way.

Sadly though, I don't expect Xavier to change what they've said. Obviously, the fact that their ballplayers came on national TV after the brawl and said with smugness, that they were proud of what the did (zippin up in plastic bags), Xavier University supports this kind of a statement, without an apology, so why will they change. Xavier has become a smug, arrogant university, and these players represent them well. A sad day for Jesuit institutions.

Timeout!
12-13-2011, 08:16 AM
Well, Cinncinati is sure winning the PR fight.

Their press-conference was sincere with players actually showing remorse. While their suspensions were still on the light side, they are suspending 3 starters over 5 games, which is 3-times the amount of games Xavier officials elected to punish their kids.

Xavier was the exact opposite, saying "sorry things happened", yet still riddled with the smug attitude that got them in this mess in the first place. After they read their script, they immediately stood up and walked out, not once taking a second to look to anyone. At least Cinncinati reflected for a moment, along with their Coach in expressing embarrassment, accountability, and still leaving the option open of dismissing players if they don't earn their jerseys back.

Coach Mack of Xavier was still making undertone excuses to the fight and sticking up for his kids. A 'mistake', they're such 'good guys', the 'heated rivalry' to blame, etc etc.

Xavier may have started the fight, yet Cinncinati is doing a better job finishing it...

Das Zagger
12-13-2011, 08:19 AM
So let me see if I've got this straight....

Tu Holloway baits an opposing team into a brawl because a Cincinnati freshman player posted that Holloway wouldn't start for Cincy. After the brawl, he's takes the podium and rather than expressing remorse or responsibility, cops an attitude and uses terms of contempt and disrespect. One game on the bench for Tu.

The brawl participants are suspended for a handful of games, 6 for Yancy Gates being the max. 4 games is the max for any of the Xavier players.

These punishments are self-imposed by the universities involved, but receive the imprimatur of the Big East and the Atlantic 10 Conferences (remember, the A-10 receives its major revenue from the NCAA basketball tournament).

Guy Landry Edi plays in two games for a semi-pro team in France when he's 15 and two more when he's 16. He is paid a few Euro's. He is suspended for 8 games by Mark Emmert's NCAA, who won't even give him the courtesy of a timely response to his appeal.

I firmly believe this man will be at the helm when the NCAA disintegrates. Elite football teams will break off and that will be the end of it.

Also, that man has no balls, so don't expect much from him.

Zag 77
12-13-2011, 10:23 AM
Authority for governance is transferred locally to provincials, who are responsible for the care and maintenance of the apostolates and Jesuits in their province.



It may not do a darned bit of good, but maybe some complaints directed to the Provincial of the Chicago-Detroit Province might make them realize they have taken a black eye.

Deatails at:

http://www.jesuits-chgdet.org/about-2/