PDA

View Full Version : stocks or pangos



izzjess
12-10-2011, 08:51 PM
let me start by saying that i do believe that pangos has more talent and skill than stocks..BBBut as of late stocks has shown more leadership and smarts than pangos and should be starting and getting more playing time than pangos...I think that would spure pangos to get better.....Pangos needs to work on getting his shot off when teams wont let him..And I am still not a fan of pangos and stocks playing at the same time(way to small)...But all this is just my opinion...I am confident that pangos is the future pg of this program.. but hey when stocks has got it and the pang man dont...I say let the stock man fly....ps..I am a huge pangos fan...

thespywhozaggedme
12-10-2011, 08:58 PM
Love 'em both. I like Stocks off of the bench because he's instant offense. At times I like the oompa loompa squad with Stocks, Pangos and Bell because all three are better than the alternatives, the only problem is none of them are taller than 6'1.

WallaWallaZag
12-10-2011, 09:36 PM
Love 'em both. I like Stocks off of the bench because he's instant offense. At times I like the oompa loompa squad with Stocks, Pangos and Bell because all three are better than the alternatives, the only problem is none of them are taller than 6'1.

our version of the 3 guard offense won't work against most bcs teams...probably fine for wcc but hopefully by that time carter will be awake or guy will have taken over the 3 spot.

krozman
12-10-2011, 09:41 PM
Ok, lets go through a small exercise. Imagine Stockton and Pangos. Imagine every turnover and angry through you have about them.

Now think about starting meech instead.

I cured you. Our guards might be young, but we're on the correct path.

ZagLawGrad
12-10-2011, 10:12 PM
Ok, lets go through a small exercise. Imagine Stockton and Pangos. Imagine every turnover and angry through you have about them.

Now think about starting meech instead.

I cured you. Our guards might be young, but we're on the correct path.

Didn't cure me. Last year's version of the Zags look pretty good to me right now.

izzjess
12-11-2011, 06:19 AM
cured me

WallaWallaZag
12-11-2011, 06:25 AM
Didn't cure me. Last year's version of the Zags look pretty good to me right now.

steven gray at the 3 looks under appreciated to me right now...

bartruff1
12-11-2011, 07:55 AM
Didn't cure me. Last year's version of the Zags look pretty good to me right now. ...they had a remarkable run last year...and some good luck....amazing really.... played their best at the end of the year. Few said Meech played his best game against St John's... I miss him...

Saxon_zag
12-11-2011, 10:54 AM
Didn't cure me. Last year's version of the Zags look pretty good to me right now.

no chance.

This years team > last years

kclubfounder
12-11-2011, 11:05 AM
Stocks or Pangos?

BOTH!

Come one, does it really have to be one or the other?

I think Pangos is the next great Zag. And by great, I mean GREAT. Stockton (the Dad), Stepp, Dickau, type great. But he is a TRUE freshman.

Stockton is flipping AWESOME. The best player in a Zag uniform in about 1/2 of the games this year, and he is a FLIPPING Sophomore.

We are in great shape at the PG position. And whenever we can get them both on the floor, we should. When matchups stop both from being on the floor, then rotate them.

Lets worry about positions where we actually need to improve, like the 3 and 4.

zagfan1
12-11-2011, 11:10 AM
Pangos by a lot. Stockton makes a lot of mistakes at the very end of games. I remember last year the mistake he made at the end of the game vs Memphis. We still see those sloppy mistakes now. For as good as Stockton is he shoots himself in the foot. We really need Pangos to progress. Stockton also needs to hit his free throws.

kclubfounder
12-11-2011, 11:18 AM
Pangos by a lot. Stockton makes a lot of mistakes at the very end of games. I remember last year the mistake he made at the end of the game vs Memphis. We still see those sloppy mistakes now. For as good as Stockton is he shoots himself in the foot. We really need Pangos to progress. Stockton also needs to hit his free throws.

:confused:

zagfan1
12-11-2011, 11:37 AM
Lets think back to the last two minutes of the game. Stockton makes a big three pointer to cut the deficit down to 6 points. Then we get a turnover and Stockton makes a turnover so that Mich st gets the ball back and they make a big three pointer to bring the lead back to 9 pts. Stockton's issue has been in transition where he either doesn't have the ball control skills or just makes a bad pass where it is intercepted by the opposing team. When Stockton got fouled from behind the three point line he needed to make 3 shots. Why can't he make all three shots knowing we have like 30 seconds left in the game and every point counts? In the game against Illinois he created a great turnover but then immediately executed a turnover on his end to give it right back to them. Thats what I mean by him shooting himself in the foot.

kclubfounder
12-11-2011, 11:38 AM
Lets think back to the last two minutes of the game. Stockton makes a big three pointer to cut the deficit down to 6 points. Then we get a turnover and Stockton makes a turnover so that Mich st gets the ball back and they make a big three pointer to bring the lead back to 9 pts. Stockton's issue has been in transition where he either doesn't have the ball control skills or just makes a bad pass where it is intercepted by the opposing team. When Stockton got fouled from behind the three point line he needed to make 3 shots. Why can't he make all three shots knowing we have like 30 seconds left in the game and every point counts? In the game against Illinois he created a great turnover but then immediately executed a turnover on his end to give it right back to them. Thats what I mean by him shooting himself in the foot.

You are the one shooting yourself in the foot. He was clearly the Zag of the game.

Get a grip.

jim77
12-11-2011, 11:45 AM
I love both of them. I don't think both should be on the floor at the same time against bigger teams. I like Stocks with Bell.....and later with EDI..."E"...ROB.

zagfan1
12-11-2011, 11:45 AM
The Zag of the game makes his free throws. You can't refute that point. Also, doesn't commit turnovers at the end of the game. Even Jeremy Pargo made his three throws when he knew that every point counted. He wasn't the best free throw shooter.

ZagLawGrad
12-11-2011, 01:04 PM
DS is playing great, especially considering that he's been coming off the bench. I'd like to see him out there more, let him get some rhythm going early.

No one can reasonably deny that Pangos has decent upside. However, outside of that game where he tossed up all the 3's, he's been up and down. Some good things, some bad things.

It's to be expected from Pangos with his lack of experience, but it translates into a common sense conclusion so far---it's going to be tough as a rookie for him to carry this team against the upper level of competition.

northsidezagfan
12-11-2011, 01:12 PM
If Pangos got the kind of attention Stockton commands from opposing defenses he would score 30 a night. Teams don't treat him as a huge threat. There's a reason why Pangos doesn't get open looks anymore, because after the WSU game he is the #1 player defenses key on the perimeter. We would be singing a completely different tune if Stockton got that kind of tough D played on him.
With that being said, Stockton is doing a good job of knocking down the open looks he gets. It will only help if teams have to start keying him too. I think they function well together, as Stockton does get a huge benefit from Pangos being out there with him.

kclubfounder
12-11-2011, 01:13 PM
The Zag of the game makes his free throws. You can't refute that point. Also, doesn't commit turnovers at the end of the game. Even Jeremy Pargo made his three throws when he knew that every point counted. He wasn't the best free throw shooter.

I really, really hate to put anyone on the ignore list. It's fruitless anyway because I end up seeing a quote and curiosity causes me to pull the culprit from the ignore list anyway.

Still, a few more like this one and I'll do it anyway.

maynard g krebs
12-11-2011, 01:35 PM
Didn't cure me. Last year's version of the Zags look pretty good to me right now.

The December version or the Feb-Mar version?

zagfan1
12-11-2011, 07:05 PM
kclubfounder play fair. I was just expressing my opinion. And I do know a thing or two about basketball as well. Stockton did play better than Pangos yesterday there is no question about that. I would just like to see some better execution at the end of the game for all of the zags including made free throws. Cheers.

04ZagFan
12-11-2011, 07:17 PM
kclubfounder play fair. I was just expressing my opinion. And I do know a thing or two about basketball as well. Stockton did play better than Pangos yesterday there is no question about that. I would just like to see some better execution at the end of the game for all of the zags including made free throws. Cheers.

You're right, the missed free throws and costly turnovers the last two games have hurt, but you can't deny the level at which Stockton is playing at. He's been our best guard. I can't complain much.

It's up to everybody to limit the stupid turnovers, make the right pass, don't force things... We do those things, we are undefeated and on our way to one hell of a season.

zag944
12-12-2011, 10:09 AM
I was in the Pangos camp by a long ways early on, but Stockton has been draining his shots lately and is actually looking to score (a much needed commodity for us).

Thought he was unbelieveably overrated last year, but he seems to have put in a lot of work and made one of his weaknesses one of his strenghs.



Stockton is an 80% free throw shooter that happens to be shooting 70% in this seasons small sample size. Not an issue.

JPtheBeasta
12-12-2011, 10:22 AM
Everyone has room for improvement after the past two games. Singling Pangos or Stockton out seems a little lame.

I would like to see more GBJ, including sets to get him more shots or touches going to the rim. If this as at the expense of Stockton or Pangos I won't mind.

rennis
12-12-2011, 10:25 AM
We're having our cake (two PGs) and eating it too (both play well for the most part), but still managing to complain about how it tastes.

They're young, they're not going to be perfect. Expecting otherwise is just funny to me.

2wiceright
12-12-2011, 11:00 AM
We're having our cake (two PGs) and eating it too (both play well for the most part), but still managing to complain about how it tastes.

They're young, they're not going to be perfect. Expecting otherwise is just funny to me.

+1

zagfan1970
12-12-2011, 11:02 AM
I really, really hate to put anyone on the ignore list. It's fruitless anyway because I end up seeing a quote and curiosity causes me to pull the culprit from the ignore list anyway.

Still, a few more like this one and I'll do it anyway.

This is a FORUM, with different opinions. It is like trying to say we should boycott foreign products, when we NEED those same countries to BUY from us. Without oposing opinions your opinions would be moot!

As far as DS vs. KP- My biggest complaint is the hypocrisy that continues to occur within the coaching staff. Last year MC was slow to get into a rythym, but allowed (or forced to by SG's injury), and the coaching staff said it "was just a matter of Marquise getting his confidence," YET how are players like Kevin, who is obviously the more talented, get the confidence without PT. The way Demetri was treated how could he ever get the confidence that DS or MC were allowed to gain? How is playing MC 3 minutes in the 2nd half going to get his confidence back?

David makes spectacular plays!!! Why??? Because he is a "gambler" who has to take chances. Over long stretches he get exposed on defense if guards get physical with him and on offense he gets razzled and panics when oposing guards like Kevin Foster, Keion Bell or Vernon Teel get up in his face. He has been awesome of late, but the future is with Pangos, by the end of the year he won't be playing like a freshmen, and hopefully the starting lineup includes- RS, EH, GLE, KP and GBJ, with a great versatile bench of SD,DS,MC,KS,MH, MM, MK

izzjess
12-12-2011, 04:11 PM
This is a FORUM, with different opinions. It is like trying to say we should boycott foreign products, when we NEED those same countries to BUY from us. Without oposing opinions your opinions would be moot!

As far as DS vs. KP- My biggest complaint is the hypocrisy that continues to occur within the coaching staff. Last year MC was slow to get into a rythym, but allowed (or forced to by SG's injury), and the coaching staff said it "was just a matter of Marquise getting his confidence," YET how are players like Kevin, who is obviously the more talented, get the confidence without PT. The way Demetri was treated how could he ever get the confidence that DS or MC were allowed to gain? How is playing MC 3 minutes in the 2nd half going to get his confidence back?

David makes spectacular plays!!! Why??? Because he is a "gambler" who has to take chances. Over long stretches he get exposed on defense if guards get physical with him and on offense he gets razzled and panics when oposing guards like Kevin Foster, Keion Bell or Vernon Teel get up in his face. He has been awesome of late, but the future is with Pangos, by the end of the year he won't be playing like a freshmen, and hopefully the starting lineup includes- RS, EH, GLE, KP and GBJ, with a great versatile bench of SD,DS,MC,KS,MH, MM, MK

agreed...thankyou for that.

bballbeachbum
12-12-2011, 06:26 PM
the answer is obvious...both, not one OR the other. Posing the question as one or the other is off target and simplistic.

that is my opinion, which I freely expressed in this forum as extolled in this thread to do, no offenses intended.

GO ZAGS!!!

kclubfounder
12-12-2011, 07:24 PM
This is a FORUM, with different opinions. It is like trying to say we should boycott foreign products, when we NEED those same countries to BUY from us. Without oposing opinions your opinions would be moot!

As far as DS vs. KP- My biggest complaint is the hypocrisy that continues to occur within the coaching staff. Last year MC was slow to get into a rythym, but allowed (or forced to by SG's injury), and the coaching staff said it "was just a matter of Marquise getting his confidence," YET how are players like Kevin, who is obviously the more talented, get the confidence without PT. The way Demetri was treated how could he ever get the confidence that DS or MC were allowed to gain? How is playing MC 3 minutes in the 2nd half going to get his confidence back?

David makes spectacular plays!!! Why??? Because he is a "gambler" who has to take chances. Over long stretches he get exposed on defense if guards get physical with him and on offense he gets razzled and panics when oposing guards like Kevin Foster, Keion Bell or Vernon Teel get up in his face. He has been awesome of late, but the future is with Pangos, by the end of the year he won't be playing like a freshmen, and hopefully the starting lineup includes- RS, EH, GLE, KP and GBJ, with a great versatile bench of SD,DS,MC,KS,MH, MM, MK

Geeze Louise. I'll put you on ignore if I feel like it.

I doubt it will make your opinion mute, or mine.

Lets don't get too overly dramatic.

gamagin
12-12-2011, 07:53 PM
This is a FORUM, with different opinions. It is like trying to say we should boycott foreign products, when we NEED those same countries to BUY from us. Without oposing opinions your opinions would be moot!

As far as DS vs. KP- My biggest complaint is the hypocrisy that continues to occur within the coaching staff. Last year MC was slow to get into a rythym, but allowed (or forced to by SG's injury), and the coaching staff said it "was just a matter of Marquise getting his confidence," YET how are players like Kevin, who is obviously the more talented, get the confidence without PT. The way Demetri was treated how could he ever get the confidence that DS or MC were allowed to gain? How is playing MC 3 minutes in the 2nd half going to get his confidence back?

David makes spectacular plays!!! Why??? Because he is a "gambler" who has to take chances. Over long stretches he get exposed on defense if guards get physical with him and on offense he gets razzled and panics when oposing guards like Kevin Foster, Keion Bell or Vernon Teel get up in his face. He has been awesome of late, but the future is with Pangos, by the end of the year he won't be playing like a freshmen, and hopefully the starting lineup includes- RS, EH, GLE, KP and GBJ, with a great versatile bench of SD,DS,MC,KS,MH, MM, MK

You froze DS in last year's rap and complain that KP & MC need more time. It's like you and many, many others can't quite metabolize: you earn your p.t. in practice and you keep it (or add to it or lose it) in the games.

In the last three games, for e.g., DS was or highly considered for mvp. He's picked up the reins off the floor. Numerous times. Who dropped them ?

There isn't time to learn on the job when the boat is leaking like a sieve.

I think there's a small, vocal and persistent, mostly wrong, minority (GUBaggers ?) who actually believe we shouldn't try to win games but slow down the world so the selected best can catch up.

Good luck with that.

The selection process stopped at recruitment. Moving ahead has to do with production under fire. So far, DS, GB, MH & to some extent, RS, have answered the call to arms. Consistently, productively or by improving, game to game. They come prepared, they contribute & move the stat lines.

The rest remain works in process.

Few would be looking for work if he operated by seating those who qualify to play with those who do not, as you suggest.

Everyone on the bench knows how to get p.t. and everyone on the bench has gotten a taste.

BUT.

But when the bell rings, you better play like your hair's on fire, or you are on fire (marquise et al ?) or your going to risk slivers and oblivion. Deservedly.

If MC hadn't caught fire at the end of last year, he wouldn't be getting 2nd and third chances, imo.

MM MK & others got numerous chances, and they'll get others, too, as we get up against the weaker WCC opponents, I believe, and that's how they will get their chances to compete for p.t. Right now, I agree with the coaches (by their actions) they don't deserve it.

It's pretty clear watching the last two games its the fellows on the floor that need the p.t. in order to try and gel, operate as a unit and have a chance to win.

They earned the time and now need to trust each other more and work as a unit. Why would anyone want to replace them with folks who didn't even make the second team in practice ? How does that make things better ?

The only x factor is Edi. We'll see how he operates under fire soon enough, I guess. He's been under fire in practice all along so I doubt anyone on the team will be surprised if he gets some p.t., or not. But we don't know yet. I hope he can make an immediate impact but I'm going to have to see it to believe it. I hope I see it.

Otherwise, and understandably, the p.t. list has been shortened and it's business time. For now.

The vets and the freshmen & the top 8-10 vs. the rest of the OOC schedule, represent our best chance to win a few.

IF the vets can start playing like vets and the frosh can continue to improve, like they are working to do under the national spotlight, we have a fighting chance. imo.

We'll see.

kclubfounder
12-12-2011, 08:09 PM
You froze DS in last year's rap and complain that KP & MC need more time. It's like you and many, many others can't quite metabolize: you earn your p.t. in practice and you keep it (or add to it or lose it) in the games.

In the last three games, for e.g., DS was or highly considered for mvp. He's picked up the reins off the floor. Numerous times. Who dropped them ?

There isn't time to learn on the job when the boat is leaking like a sieve.

I think there's a small, vocal and persistent, mostly wrong, minority (GUBaggers ?) who actually believe we shouldn't try to win games but slow down the world so the selected best can catch up.

Good luck with that.

The selection process stopped at recruitment. Moving ahead has to do with production under fire. So far, DS, GB, MH & to some extent, RS, have answered the call to arms. Consistently, productively or by improving, game to game. They come prepared, they contribute & move the stat lines.

The rest remain works in process.

Few would be looking for work if he operated by seating those who qualify to play with those who do not, as you suggest.

Everyone on the bench knows how to get p.t. and everyone on the bench has gotten a taste.

BUT.

But when the bell rings, you better play like your hair's on fire, or you are on fire (marquise et al ?) or your going to risk slivers and oblivion. Deservedly.

If MC hadn't caught fire at the end of last year, he wouldn't be getting 2nd and third chances, imo.

MM MK & others got numerous chances, and they'll get others, too, as we get up against the weaker WCC opponents, I believe, and that's how they will get their chances to compete for p.t. Right now, I agree with the coaches (by their actions) they don't deserve it.

It's pretty clear watching the last two games its the fellows on the floor that need the p.t. in order to try and gel, operate as a unit and have a chance to win.

They earned the time and now need to trust each other more and work as a unit. Why would anyone want to replace them with folks who didn't even make the second team in practice ? How does that make things better ?

The only x factor is Edi. We'll see how he operates under fire soon enough, I guess. He's been under fire in practice all along so I doubt anyone on the team will be surprised if he gets some p.t., or not. But we don't know yet. I hope he can make an immediate impact but I'm going to have to see it to believe it. I hope I see it.

Otherwise, and understandably, the p.t. list has been shortened and it's business time. For now.

The vets and the freshmen & the top 8-10 vs. the rest of the OOC schedule, represent our best chance to win a few.

IF the vets can start playing like vets and the frosh can continue to improve, like they are working to do under the national spotlight, we have a fighting chance. imo.

We'll see.

+1