PDA

View Full Version : Story of the Game



DCZag
12-10-2011, 07:18 PM
9 assists - 19 TOs = loss

McZag
12-10-2011, 07:25 PM
Draymond Green helped MSU a little bit.

Virginia Zags Fan
12-10-2011, 07:32 PM
We out rebounded MSU 27-20. Held a margin of 8-5 in offensive rebounding. Also positive. We also shot better from 3 pt and the charity stripe.

Young guards make fantastic plays at times. They also have some down moments.

Reborn
12-10-2011, 07:38 PM
This was one of the key factors for sure. Turned the ball over twice in the last minute when we're making our comeback on two really STUPID passes. Pathetic....

Bulldog
12-10-2011, 07:40 PM
Hate to blame the refs, but there were some BAD calls.

Section 116
12-10-2011, 07:43 PM
Tom Hudson reported on the post game radio show Gonzaga had 1 turnover in the first 5 minutes, 12 in the next 11:30. Gonzaga was 9-20 from the floor in the first half, opened the second half at 4-13 while MSU opened 10-16. And Draymond Green was I believe 10-13 from the floor and 8-9 from the free throw line. Giacoletti said the were three different times the Zags miscommunicated on on ball screens and Green drained three three pointers on those mistakes. Those are the stats I recall as I was driving and had no way of taking notes.

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-10-2011, 07:44 PM
9 assists - 19 TOs = loss

We've got a young backcourt that made a lot of mistakes with the ball, but they're smart kids with a lot of heart. This is going to get better.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 07:45 PM
Hate to blame the refs, but there were some BAD calls.

They weren't very good, but when you turn the ball over as much as we do, you have nobody to blame but yourself.

I don't mind losing when you get beat, but when you beat yourself, it's damn frustrating.

Outraged
12-10-2011, 07:52 PM
Basic lack of focus and fire caused a few sloppy plays that lost the game. We did not have an inside outside game. Sacre might as well be three inches shorter, 20 pounds lighter with bad hands for me to understand why he didnt get the ball more and to appreciate his stats. He also needs to finish a little better. Harris needs to be a little more agressive and fight the mental fog at crucial times. I thought our defense was pretty good overall. It kept the score from getting ugly. I think if everyone hustled like Hart the score would have been reversed. I liked seeing Stockton develop. I would like to see our rotation expand a little more. All in All we did not have the fire.

bballbeachbum
12-10-2011, 07:53 PM
Tom Hudson reported on the post game radio show Gonzaga had 1 turnover in the first 5 minutes, 12 in the next 11:30. Gonzaga was 9-20 from the floor in the first half, opened the second half at 4-13 while MSU opened 10-16. And Draymond Green was I believe 10-13 from the floor and 8-9 from the free throw line. Giacoletti said the were three different times the Zags miscommunicated on on ball screens and Green drained three three pointers on those mistakes. Those are the stats I recall as I was driving and had no way of taking notes.

thanks always Section 116 for these reports

Good points VirginiaZagsFan all around. Couldn't quite make up for the turnovers with the rebounding tonight as hoped, but valiant try

gu03alum
12-10-2011, 07:54 PM
I wish the bleacher report had an opinion on the game, like a top 20 worst turnover of the game list.

HillBillyZag
12-10-2011, 07:55 PM
And whatever the strange maliase that has taken over Harris's psyche?, is appearing in increasing amounts in Dower's game.

WallaWallaZag
12-10-2011, 08:00 PM
We out rebounded MSU 27-20. Held a margin of 8-5 in offensive rebounding. Also positive. We also shot better from 3 pt and the charity stripe.

Young guards make fantastic plays at times. They also have some down moments.

not as impressive as it sounds...MSU is a great offensive rebounding team...no need to rebound when you make everything (54.2%) second game in a row opponent shoots over 50% -- at the college level that is horrible defense.

NEC26
12-10-2011, 08:02 PM
I wish we didn't insist on trying to get the ball inside. We either turned it over on the pass or Sacre turned it over himself. trying to force it inside was obviously not working. I wish we started making the the three point shot a little more of a part of our offensive focus.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 08:05 PM
I wish we didn't insist on trying to get the ball inside. We either turned it over on the pass or Sacre turned it over himself. trying to force it inside was obviously not working. I wish we started making the the three point shot a little more of a part of our offensive focus.

DING DING DING

Glad somebody agrees with me.

Yes, when Rob gets the ball deep 1 on 1, he's going to score 9 times out of 10...

But that's rare. Teams double team him, triple team him ,and clog the paint to keep him from catching the ball where he wants it... Like you said, if we don't turn the ball over trying to get it to him, he'll turn it over himself.

We need more 3 point shooting.

btzag
12-10-2011, 08:05 PM
Yes you hit it on the head with the TO's. The last two games we have not passed the ball well, have been sloppy and careless and have made tons of dumb mistakes.

Fun stat for everyone... Dower and Carter played 23 mins combined and had six turnovers in that limited time on the court. 1 assist from those two and that was from Dower.

My big frustration is our focus on offense. This team is so bent on pounding it inside that we have become so easy to defend and disrupt. I watched college ball all day today and did not view a single team that was so one-dimensional as the Zags. When Sacre gets doubled or tripled people are open! Hit Pangos or Bell or Stocks for a three or here is a novel thought run a play expecting the double.

When you know that MSU is going to crowd the middle and bully and hack all night you have to have a strategy to counter and tonight we did not.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 08:06 PM
yes you hit it on the head with the to's. The last two games we have not passed the ball well, have been sloppy and careless and have made tons of dumb mistakes.

Fun stat for everyone... Dower and carter played 23 mins combined and had six turnovers in that limited time on the court. 1 assist from those two and that was from dower.

My big frustration is our focus on offense. This team is so bent on pounding it inside that we have become so easy to defend and disrupt. I watched college ball all day today and did not view a single team that was so one-dimensional as the zags. When sacre gets doubled or tripled people are open! Hit pangos or bell or stocks for a three or here is a novel thought run a play expecting the double.

When you know that msu is going to crowd the middle and bully and hack all night you have to have a strategy to counter and tonight we did not.

+1000

NEC26
12-10-2011, 08:09 PM
Sacre is a great player but he does not handle double and triple teams well. Someone should be open but he either gets the ball knocked away or shoots and misses.
We should not be so singularly focused on forcing it inside. Our offense really starts clicking when Bell, Stockton, and Pangos start looking for their shot. Force teams to worry about that then look to get it inside.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 08:11 PM
Sacre is a great player but he does not handle double and triple teams well. Someone should be open but he either gets the ball knocked away or shoots and misses.
We should not be so singularly focused on forcing it inside. Our offense really starts clicking when Bell, Stockton, and Pangos start looking for their shot. Force teams to worry about that then look to get it inside.

Yup.

We can blame our defense and we can blame Hart all we want...

We win this game if we run a decent offense.

Fan_In_Spokane
12-10-2011, 08:11 PM
9 assists - 19 TOs = loss

This.

pazag
12-10-2011, 08:14 PM
The zags used to be an offensive team that was so-so on defense, now we are a decent defensive team and an awful half court offensive team. For three years this team has not been able to throw entry passes which leads to to's that turn into points for the other teams. The last 2 years was because Meech couldn't get it inside. This year it seems the D can really sink inside because of our 4 on 5 offense. I like Hart playing but when we struggle so badly on offense we need to put more shooters out there just to make the defense spread out and then maybe these entry passes can get through. The Zags aren't going anywhere unless they get back to an offensive style of basketball. This D style only results in losses to almost every name team the last 3 years. At least when we were an O team we could win some of these games. We are not Butler, we are Gonzaga, we are know for great guard play and offensive basketball. Let's get back to being what we were and not try to become something that only hurts us.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 08:17 PM
The zags used to be an offensive team that was so-so on defense, now we are a decent defensive team and an awful half court offensive team. For three years this team has not been able to throw entry passes which leads to to's that turn into points for the other teams. The last 2 years was because Meech couldn't get it inside. This year it seems the D can really sink inside because of our 4 on 5 offense. I like Hart playing but when we struggle so badly on offense we need to put more shooters out there just to make the defense spread out and then maybe these entry passes can get through. The Zags aren't going anywhere unless they get back to an offensive style of basketball. This D style only results in losses to almost every name team the last 3 years. At least when we were an O team we could win some of these games. We are not Butler, we are Gonzaga, we are know for great guard play and offensive basketball. Let's get back to being what we were and not try to become something that only hurts us.

Yup.

btzag
12-10-2011, 08:17 PM
Really funny box score for this game. If you check out the MSU side and erase Green their team really played like crap. Nix went 4-4 but anyone who watched the game saw him just brick some shots that happened to spin in. Really everyone else played terrible for them just stats wise... Green won the game for them.

For GU, actually nice balance across the team but outside of Stockton we got ZERO contribution from the bench. Personally at this point I thing Few needs to go to Spangler and Monnighoff/Keita or definitely Guy when he is eligible. When two of your top three subs produce nothing off the bench, and you have capable replacements, you have to give that a shot.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 08:21 PM
Really funny box score for this game. If you check out the MSU side and erase Green their team really played like crap. Nix went 4-4 but anyone who watched the game saw him just brick some shots that happened to spin in. Really everyone else played terrible for them just stats wise... Green won the game for them.

For GU, actually nice balance across the team but outside of Stockton we got ZERO contribution from the bench. Personally at this point I thing Few needs to go to Spangler and Monnighoff/Keita or definitely Guy when he is eligible. When two of your top three subs produce nothing off the bench, and you have capable replacements, you have to give that a shot.

Hoff needs more minutes, and I PRAY Edi is good enough to give us minutes. We NEED him to be able to play!

Seems weird to me that we have become so against the 3 ball.... We used to be known for our three point shooting, yet Few doesn't run ANY plays made to get shooters open.. It's all about pounding the ball inside to turnover prone players who make bad decisions.

WallaWallaZag
12-10-2011, 08:21 PM
DING DING DING

Glad somebody agrees with me.

Yes, when Rob gets the ball deep 1 on 1, he's going to score 9 times out of 10...

But that's rare. Teams double team him, triple team him ,and clog the paint to keep him from catching the ball where he wants it... Like you said, if we don't turn the ball over trying to get it to him, he'll turn it over himself.

We need more 3 point shooting.

don't disagree about 3 point shooting...but don't feel we have the type of guards to do this as a primary strategy. a team like UW can with length and athletes and guys who can get their own shot or simply rise up over people. our guards are simply too short and not athletic enough for this to work as a primary strategy. watch a team like xavier with holloway and lyons and there's no way we run our offense through our guards. our guards need space to shoot and are pretty easy to close out on.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 08:24 PM
don't disagree about 3 point shooting...but don't feel we have the type of guards to do this as a primary strategy. a team like UW can with length and athletes and guys who can get their own shot or simply rise up over people. our guards are simply too short and not athletic enough for this to work as a primary strategy. watch a team like xavier with holloway and lyons and there's no way we run our offense through our guards.

That's a good point actually... I think Gary is really the only guy who can get his own shot and shoot over people.. Hoff is also tall enough to where he can knock down shots with people in his face... But Stockton and Pangos need help to get their shots off.

DixieZag
12-10-2011, 08:24 PM
Of course the story is Turn Overs.

But it is how those turnovers came about that is where I am driven crazy. We played very well during the first 8 minutes - what did we do well? We guarded well, and we took the open shots, many of which were three point shots or drives. Bell had 11 pts in the first 10 minutes.

Then we went away from Bell and tried to get Sacre and Harris involved. It didn't work, it will never work against a team that defends the middle as well as MSU does, it will especially never work against a team that defends the middle well like MSU does when the refs decide to swallow their whistle with regard to post play. Few kept trying it from 15 minutes left to 5 minutes left, kept trying the middle, we kept being guarded well, the refs kept letting muggings take place and we couldn't score.

ONLY when we started going back to the outside shot did we start to come back, we also went to a ZONE (nothing else worked) and that helped some.

GU is an inside out team against Santa Clara and Portland - we are NOT an inside first team against a team that makes its living beating the sh*t out of teams in the B1G all year, it was obvious to everyone in the stands around us, why not Few?

We are not a top 25 team, I get that. But we should play much better at home against a team that is not UNC, Kansas or Kentucky either. I think we got out game coached, again. But, for those of you who were not there, I cannot tell you how impressive Green was, he was the biggest guy on the floor, the smoothest, the calmest, the smartest (he played with 3 fouls, he didn't take a single bad shot, he calmed his guys) and WILL be a very good pro.

NEC26
12-10-2011, 08:25 PM
don't disagree about 3 point shooting...but don't feel we have the type of guards to do this as a primary strategy. a team like UW can with length and athletes and guys who can get their own shot or simply rise up over people. our guards are simply too short and not athletic enough for this to work as a primary strategy.

Whatever, sorry but thats just silly. You run some screens you can get our guards open(especially Pangos who has a very quick release). We used to do it all the time but now all we do is try and force it inside to a big with less than stellar hands and an inability to pass out of the double team.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 08:27 PM
Whatever, sorry but thats just silly. You run some screens you can get our guards open(especially Pangos who has a very quick release). We used to do it all the time but now all we do is try and force it inside to a big with less than stellar hands and an inability to pass out of the double team.

Yes. We NEED off ball screens getting our shooters open. WallaWalla Zag is right about the size and athleticism of our guards, but like you said, there are ways to get them open.... Doesn't seem Few is interested in that though. Pound the ball inside.. Pound, pound, pound. Turnover turnover turnover.

btzag
12-10-2011, 08:36 PM
If you need any proof of the screen for three approach just watch the WCC... The league is a bunch of mostly mediocre athletic teams that rely on the three to battle with the big boys. There are no UW's in the WCC. It's either running sets with multiple screens, drive and dish (to take advantage of the Zags primarily) or getting threes out of transition.

Just to clarify the Zags do NONE of those strategies so far this year. Bring it up, post Sacre and watch him work. Or swing it. And re-post. Or swing it again to Harris. And watch him force it, typically through his defenders chin for an offensive foul.

WallaWallaZag
12-10-2011, 08:41 PM
Whatever, sorry but thats just silly. You run some screens you can get our guards open(especially Pangos who has a very quick release). We used to do it all the time but now all we do is try and force it inside to a big with less than stellar hands and an inability to pass out of the double team.

yes, you can set screens but for this to work you need multiple shooters on the wing and you usually need a point guard to get them the ball...two of our best 3 point shooters ARE the pg and our primary wing can't shoot.

so yes, means we need to get more looks for bell, but as long as hart is the 3 this can't be a primary strategy.

btzag
12-10-2011, 08:46 PM
Oh remember the days of Richie Frahm draining threes from the wing...!

WallaWallaZag
12-10-2011, 08:46 PM
If you need any proof of the screen for three approach just watch the WCC... The league is a bunch of mostly mediocre athletic teams that rely on the three to battle with the big boys. There are no UW's in the WCC. It's either running sets with multiple screens, drive and dish (to take advantage of the Zags primarily) or getting threes out of transition.

Just to clarify the Zags do NONE of those strategies so far this year. Bring it up, post Sacre and watch him work. Or swing it. And re-post. Or swing it again to Harris. And watch him force it, typically through his defenders chin for an offensive foul.

can't believe it, but i'm going to defend harris here...yes, he played atrociously on defense like he does most of the time, but he wasn't that bad on offense aside from not making his shots...he did what he was supposed to...attack on offense and didn't actually force that much...his shots just didn't fall today. he took some pretty open shots.

Oregonzagnut
12-10-2011, 08:47 PM
Basic lack of focus and fire caused a few sloppy plays that lost the game.

I disagree, I think they have too much fire at times. They try to get uptempo and they cannot do it. they get sloppy and this happened at Illinois too: when they speed up, they flounder. We need to slow down, methodically work the ball and shoot the wide open shot.

We succeed when we slow down and create shots. We fail when we hurry and try to fast break.

Just my observation.

04ZagFan
12-10-2011, 08:50 PM
Oh remember the days of Richie Frahm draining threes from the wing...!

What I wouldn't do to get a player like him back at GU

WallaWallaZag
12-10-2011, 09:14 PM
da hoff must really not be doing anything good in practice to not even get off the bench....