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View Full Version : Sometimes Losing Helps



Reborn
12-07-2011, 05:33 AM
I hate losing as much as anyone, but I do believe that losing a close game as we did against Illinois can be a great wake up call. Gonzaga didn't come close to playing their A game against them. In fact I'd say it was a B- game. And if we are going to beat Michigan St. Saturday the Zags are going to have to bring their A game.

I'd say the most important thing that needs to change is Marquis Carter needs to start making better decisions with the basketball, and he needs to score in double figures and hit some outside shots. It's about time for him to get out of his funk and start playing basketball like he is capable of doing.

The same for Sam Dower. Sam's shooting needs to improve but even more he needs to come out and play with everything he has on the defensive end and on the boards. If he doesn't do that, then Gonzaga will be in trouble when he's in the game, just as they were in trouble against Illinois when he played.

I think Pangos needs to shoot better from the 3 pt line. He has been a little off in the last couple of games. I'm not sure why, but I hope he gets into his comfort zone agains MSU and nails some three's.

I think Sacre needs to play better against Michigan St. then he did against Illinois in the second half. Robert had a melt down in the second half against the Illini, and I hope he learns from that and comes out ready to play his A game for the whole 30+ minutes he plays.

Finally, Gonzaga MUST shoot better from the line the WHOLE game. This game will require concentration and focus for the whole 40 minutes.

They CAN DO IT TOO!!!
Go Zags!!!

DixieZag
12-07-2011, 10:08 AM
I agree with what Carter needs to do, but I believe that he is now going to have to do that as a back-up with limited minutes b/c Bell needs the majority of those minutes. Bell is bringing more consistent play to the team, his defense is better, his shooting is better and he is even driving the lane and rebounding better than any other guard.

Sacre was exhausted at the end of the first half last game, due in part to the fact that he was being beat upon by an endless stream of players, and was way too much a focus of our offense. His second half decline had nothing to do with focus, he was exhausted (plus the refs reversed their calls). Sam needs to bring some quality minutes to back up Rob in the first half so that Rob is fresh in the second.

Pangos cannot shoot for a high percentage unless he is open. I think we need to run him off several screens and get him into the flow of shooting off sets, b/c I think we do need 6 to 8 threes a game to win this year.

siliconzag
12-07-2011, 10:19 AM
I agree with what Carter needs to do, but I believe that he is now going to have to do that as a back-up with limited minutes b/c Bell needs the majority of those minutes. Bell is bringing more consistent play to the team, his defense is better, his shooting is better and he is even driving the lane and rebounding better than any other guard.

Sacre was exhausted at the end of the first half last game, due in part to the fact that he was being beat upon by an endless stream of players, and was way too much a focus of our offense. His second half decline had nothing to do with focus, he was exhausted (plus the refs reversed their calls). Sam needs to bring some quality minutes to back up Rob in the first half so that Rob is fresh in the second.

Pangos cannot shoot for a high percentage unless he is open. I think we need to run him off several screens and get him into the flow of shooting off sets, b/c I think we do need 6 to 8 threes a game to win this year.

Some grad student ought to run Pearson's R study on three pointers and how it correlates with victory. I bet it would show that teams that score >7 or 8 treys per game have a very high percentage of victories. The probable exception being when the opposing team scores 9 or 10. Zags have not traditionally won big games by shooting poorly at the three point line, or alternatively for being too timid.

Remember, "faint heart never won fair lady." (or something like that). Courage boys, and coach, let give Sacre an occasional rest, because if the refs aren't calling fouls on him, we are sunk. His best shooting still comes from the charity stripe.

Sili

JPtheBeasta
12-07-2011, 10:26 AM
Pangos cannot shoot for a high percentage unless he is open. I think we need to run him off several screens and get him into the flow of shooting off sets, b/c I think we do need 6 to 8 threes a game to win this year.

Especially if he is going to continue to be in the game at the same time as Stockton, which makes Pangos the de facto shooting guard.

Therunner
12-07-2011, 10:59 AM
Pangos cannot shoot for a high percentage unless he is open. I think we need to run him off several screens and get him into the flow of shooting off sets, b/c I think we do need 6 to 8 threes a game to win this year.

and to give Sacre/Harris a break on offense for a possession. Dower's lack of 'you name it' isn't helping these guys out much either...

We're pretty one-dimensional & predictable rt now. Versatility is key.

We MUST produce more offense via our backcourt. 1st order of business = more GBJ, less Carter. Doesn't Bell have the best 3pt % on the team? Not to mention his defense. This move should immediately help keep MSU guessing instead of waiting for our starting SG to create unforced turnovers or pass up the open shot. Or play 6-8 ft off our starting SF & have an addt'l defender shadow our bigs or clog the lane.

As it stands, our starting-5 offense can be scouted in minutes. Keep fresh defenders pounding away at Sacre and/or flop on his post-ups(Coach Weber had a long discussion w/the refs & shortly thereafter he was getting whistled for fouls everytime down the court). Sag off Hart & Carter. Shadow Pangos after he passes to the wing. Keep Harris away from the hoop to limit offensive rebounding & force him to put the ball on the floor. With the extra defenders sagging off Carter & Hart, you can practically face-guard the Pangos kid & help be a pest on Sacre or Harris. Repeat. However, it becomes a little tougher to guard the perimeter the second Gary Bell enters the game. Same applies to Stockton, except he's a big dropoff from Carter on-ball or zone defense.

I believe a change is coming.

2wiceright
12-07-2011, 11:40 AM
[QUOTE]However, it becomes a little tougher to guard the perimeter the second Gary Bell enters the game. Same applies to Stockton, except he's a big dropoff from Carter

I totally agree with this statement Runner. As an example, I noticed against the Illini (as i watched Pangos on offense away from the ball) when the ball had been passed into Sacre and he was maneuvering for a jump hook, Pangos defender was right up in his grill 15-20 from the basket! They were determined to prevent him from getting any easy shots (obviously), and will be from most good teams from here on out. So I agree with Dixie, Runner, etc., both running him off screens and especially getting Bell a lot more minutes will get us out of being a one dimensional team, at least until we can add Edi a week from Saturday (makes us more three dimensional), if he plays like Few has been talking him up!!!

One other problem- look at their roster. Their guards are all 190-200+ pounds, some being 6'5 ish. Few has his work cut out for him this week but I believe he'll add some wrinkles and give us a good chance for a win at home...

Beat Sparty!!! :pray:

Therunner
12-07-2011, 12:07 PM
[QUOTE=Therunner;706181]

I totally agree with this statement Runner. As an example, I noticed against the Illini (as i watched Pangos on offense away from the ball) when the ball had been passed into Sacre and he was maneuvering for a jump hook, Pangos defender was right up in his grill 15-20 from the basket! They were determined to prevent him from getting any easy shots (obviously), and will be from most good teams from here on out. So I agree with Dixie, Runner, etc., both running him off screens and especially getting Bell a lot more minutes will get us out of being a one dimensional team, at least until we can add Edi a week from Saturday (makes us more three dimensional), if he plays like Few has been talking him up!!!

One other problem- look at their roster. Their guards are all 190-200+ pounds, some being 6'5 ish. Few has his work cut out for him this week but I believe he'll add some wrinkles and give us a good chance for a win at home...

Beat Sparty!!! :pray:

What some people tend to neglect when talking about or comparing Stockton & Pangos is the simple fact teams have been hovering Kevin, which should open up the perimeter a bit on swing passes; however, Carter & Hart aren't shooting the ball or enough of a threat on offense to take advantage. The one player taking advatage of defenses respected Pangos is Stockton. DS is getting a lot of open looks & while he's hitting some shots, he has a tough time shooting over players once they do guard him off the pass.

Either way, we still need more production out of our backcourt, on both sides of the court, or our bigs are going to suffer as a result. Lastly, Pangos is somewhat responsible/accountable as well. He's not doing a good enough job of being aggressive off being face-guarded. Back door cuts, drawing fouls, rolling off screens better, displaying he can shoot inside the arc, etc. See what Ammo did his JR year. He adapted to the defense. KP will learn, yet right now he's the only guy in the backcourt receiving serious attn/defense by the opposition.

DixieZag
12-07-2011, 01:19 PM
[QUOTE=2wiceright;706211]

What some people tend to neglect when talking about or comparing Stockton & Pangos is the simple fact teams have been hovering Kevin, which should open up the perimeter a bit on swing passes; however, Carter & Hart aren't shooting the ball or enough of a threat on offense to take advantage. The one player taking advatage of defenses respected Pangos is Stockton. DS is getting a lot of open looks & while he's hitting some shots, he has a tough time shooting over players once they do guard him off the pass.

Either way, we still need more production out of our backcourt, on both sides of the court, or our bigs are going to suffer as a result. Lastly, Pangos is somewhat responsible/accountable as well. He's not doing a good enough job of being aggressive off being face-guarded. Back door cuts, drawing fouls, rolling off screens better, displaying he can shoot inside the arc, etc. See what Ammo did his JR year. He adapted to the defense. KP will learn, yet right now he's the only guy in the backcourt receiving serious attn/defense by the opposition.

Though none of us are college coaches, I do believe there is something to be said for "consensus" observations and I hope to hear that some of the ideas bandied about here will be seen in the next game, to wit:

1. Bell gets many more minutes, doesn't matter who "starts"
2. Pangos, Bell, and Carter (eventually) have to score, whether it is driving, mid-range (the current favorite b/c both have shown they can pull up and hit 12 footers)
3. Sacre, Harris, Dower, Spangler all have to move more, get the ball while moving, llook to dish or kick out as well as posting up.
4. Guy Landry-Edi cannot get on the floor quick enough.

I think we are going to be fine, even if we get beat this weekend, I really feel like this team has a very high ceiling and we will grow throughout the year and be playing our best BB at the end of the year, similar to last year.

2wiceright
12-07-2011, 06:04 PM
Well said Dixie! +1