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View Full Version : Anyone Wish KO had not taken the redshirt this year?



CanadianZagFan
12-05-2011, 11:12 AM
As I was watching the Illinois game I kept thinking to myself that I would have liked to see Kelly in this game. I still feel that Gonzaga could have gone with Rob, Kelly and Elias to start games, then subbing one out early and using them in a 3 man rotation the rest of the way. I know there were some injury concerns and that it seems to have been Kelly's decision to take the year off and work on his game, but I think the team would be better with him this year.

bartruff1
12-05-2011, 11:15 AM
not me...we will be better off with him next year..

bullzag23
12-05-2011, 11:16 AM
As I was watching the Illinois game I kept thinking to myself that I would have liked to see Kelly in this game. I still feel that Gonzaga could have gone with Rob, Kelly and Elias to start games, then subbing one out early and using them in a 3 man rotation the rest of the way. I know there were some injury concerns and that it seems to have been Kelly's decision to take the year off and work on his game, but I think the team would be better with him this year.

Kelly was not a starter by the end of last year, so why would he have been starting early this season? Look, I like KO as much as anybody but he's done nothing thus far to suggest starters' minutes

Worthington
12-05-2011, 11:18 AM
I still think this will be better in the long run, but seeing Dower struggle early I can't help but feel that KO would have really come in handy so far. Judging by his performance at the FIBA Americas over the summer, I would say KO is a more complete player than Dower as of right now.

cjm720
12-05-2011, 11:26 AM
Yes, without a doubt IMO.

I firmly believe we would have beaten Illinois with Kelly. His need is highlighted even more with Dower slumping and Spangs barely playing. Bobby needs more rest too, and I'm not counting foul trouble ;)

Baldwinzag
12-05-2011, 11:26 AM
Nope, not at all.

At the end of the day, its not only about the Zags' best interest(which it still is), yet about Kelly's best interest as a person & a player.

He's going to be better as ever and will have a much better chance at playing post-college, plus if bball isn't his calling after graduation, then his Masters Degree will be.

A win-win. No if's, and's, but's about it...

CanadianZagFan
12-05-2011, 11:27 AM
Kelly was not a starter by the end of last year, so why would he have been starting early this season? Look, I like KO as much as anybody but he's done nothing thus far to suggest starters' minutes

Just because a player starts does not mean he plays 30 minutes a game. This is the shortsightedness that far to many people have. Having a player start and play the first 5 minutes of a game, then settle in as the 3rd player in a 3 man rotation is not playing starters minutes. It would give the Team a different look to start games, exploiting any early miss-matches and allowing Elias to get out a run a little more as some of the rebounding responsibility would be off him.

We often sit one of our best players to start a game so that we get a better lift coming off the bench. This player ends up with as many minutes as the other starters and also is in to finish games. With a short bench, it gives us a boost rather than any chance of a drop off with our first sub. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Few should do anything different, just that this would be something I would consider if Kelly were playing this year.

CanadianZagFan
12-05-2011, 11:32 AM
Nope, not at all.

At the end of the day, its not only about the Zags' best interest(which is still is), yet about Kelly's best interest as a person & a player.

He's going to be better as ever and will have a much better chance at playing post-college, plus if bball isn't his calling after graduation, then his Masters Degree will be.

A win-win. No if's, and's, but's about it...

I agree with some of your points, but I am not as sold on the Masters degree argument. The degree in itself will be great to have and only a benefit for him going forward. I am 100% confidant that if Kelly is as good of a student as we hear he would not being paying for a 5th year of school anyway. I am sure there would be many academic scholarships available as well as a paid position with the Gonzaga team that would get him through that year of school.

In the end it does come down to Kelly's decision, and I am not saying he made the wrong one, just that it would be nice to have him this year as I feel he would help the team in a big way.

bartruff1
12-05-2011, 11:39 AM
Nope, not at all.

At the end of the day, its not only about the Zags' best interest(which is still is), yet about Kelly's best interest as a person & a player.

He's going to be better as ever and will have a much better chance at playing post-college, plus if bball isn't his calling after graduation, then his Masters Degree will be.

A win-win. No if's, and's, but's about it... Everything about this red shirt makes sense...for him...for the team next year...and even for Spangler this year.....of course it makes sense to say " he could help" in every game this year, but I don't think there is any way to say with ANY certitude that he would have won any game .." being is, non being is not " as Tom Aquinas often said.

CDC84
12-05-2011, 11:41 AM
I agree with the decision, and will continue to do so even if Dower keeps playing the way he is playing. Sometimes as a staff you need to make decisions based on what most benefits your program in the long run as opposed to what benefits your program right now.

Zagdawg
12-05-2011, 11:45 AM
Redshirt was a good choice for Kelly to make and I support him in his decision.

Crazy
12-05-2011, 11:46 AM
As I was watching the Illinois game I kept thinking to myself that I would have liked to see Kelly in this game. I still feel that Gonzaga could have gone with Rob, Kelly and Elias to start games, then subbing one out early and using them in a 3 man rotation the rest of the way. I know there were some injury concerns and that it seems to have been Kelly's decision to take the year off and work on his game, but I think the team would be better with him this year.

i say you the final answer when i saw Landry playing, after seeing the first two games and hearing that kelly is redshirting and not injured i thought - they would be better of playing Elias again as a three and him at the four for 10-15 in the match.

Cause my concern was the 3 position, cause i think hart and Hoff are good backups for a strong program like Gonzaga but to one dimensional as starters and the guard to tiny. So i thought they would be better of with kelly in, and a bit weaker Elias at the 3(who would profitate through playing the 3 too in the future).

Buut since i heared about Landry joining as a three in the season i understood, why Kelly red shirted looking for more playing time in the future cause with him and Dower as backup there wouldn't be much time for each of them.

gamagin
12-05-2011, 11:54 AM
us. That said, knowing what we now know after watching the Illini game, I think it's safe to say KO could have given RS a blow & replaced him when he fouled out, replaced SD or even MC when things seemed to be going south for them. No doubt.

We may never really know until someone closer to him actually says he needed the time to grow into his much bigger body, but I think that is the reason he decided to take an extra year. Getting a better education is gravy.

But turning himself in to a physical specimen while making those adjustments could be the difference between being a good D1 basketball player, which he already is, and being a great one.

All this while his young teammates are making their own adjustments and getting their beaks wet this year. Nothing is guaranteed but this looks like a low risk, high reward possibility for KO and the Zags to me.

But to your point, I agree he might have made a difference vs. Illini. We'll never know.

LongIslandZagFan
12-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Dan Dickau once said the best thing for his career was the year he sat out. Slowed the game down tremendously for him. Made him a better player. This year will do wonders for Kelly.

RenoZag
12-05-2011, 11:56 AM
Ask me at the start of January. . .

Oregonzagnut
12-05-2011, 11:59 AM
After Sacre leaves we will need a big who is savvy with Mark Fews system and can dominate inside. While I am not sure about physical domination, I am sure that given the confidence he seems to lack, and familiarity with our new PG regime, Kelly will be the perfect compliment to Dower and our backcourt for 2 more years! Practice makes perfect.

The future's so bright, I gotta wear shades.

hooter73
12-05-2011, 11:59 AM
Anyone wish KO had not taken the redshirt this year.

Wait till next year to ask that.

We lost one game... boo hoo. We are five games in and dont have all our players eligible yet. I know we all thought Pangos should have declared for the NBA draft right after WSU but give the team some time.

bullzag23
12-05-2011, 12:02 PM
Just because a player starts does not mean he plays 30 minutes a game. This is the shortsightedness that far to many people have. Having a player start and play the first 5 minutes of a game, then settle in as the 3rd player in a 3 man rotation is not playing starters minutes. It would give the Team a different look to start games, exploiting any early miss-matches and allowing Elias to get out a run a little more as some of the rebounding responsibility would be off him.

We often sit one of our best players to start a game so that we get a better lift coming off the bench. This player ends up with as many minutes as the other starters and also is in to finish games. With a short bench, it gives us a boost rather than any chance of a drop off with our first sub. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying Few should do anything different, just that this would be something I would consider if Kelly were playing this year.

Sounds like you're asking for another Meech/Stockton situation from last year. How'd that work out?

Why start a player if they won't get the majority of the minutes? KO is not the best player we have for the SF position which is what he would play if started alongside Rob/Elias. Start your best 5, which at this time is Pangos/Bell/(insert 3 until Guy is playing)/Rob/Elias/

U Zig, I Zag
12-05-2011, 12:28 PM
KO: watch Rob all year long and then come back and add: rebounding based on athletic quickness, a desire and ability to finish at the rim.

The question I would have about KO is whether or not sitting out a year will make him a little more fearless. He HAS to be willing to bang down low. No more roaming the perimeter.

Zig-Zag
12-05-2011, 12:41 PM
As I was watching the Illinois game I kept thinking to myself that I would have liked to see Kelly in this game. I still feel that Gonzaga could have gone with Rob, Kelly and Elias to start games, then subbing one out early and using them in a 3 man rotation the rest of the way. I know there were some injury concerns and that it seems to have been Kelly's decision to take the year off and work on his game, but I think the team would be better with him this year.

Canadan Zag Fan, When the redshirt Rumor was out you fought and disagreed that he should or would redshirt. Kelley, his Dad, made the discision best for Kelley and fortunate for GU. I hope we can give it a rest and not second guess KELLY'S decision. I just hope Kelly makes the most of his redshirt and has 2 more GREAT years and ample playing time. Really like the young man.

bostonzagfan
12-05-2011, 12:57 PM
kelly could have helped in every game this year, but he will help way more his RS senior year.

DCZag
12-05-2011, 01:01 PM
You see the limited minutes that Spangler is getting - KO would have received a few more, but it'll help us out over the long haul to have him available to play when there are more minutes and we don't have Rob...

CanadianZagFan
12-05-2011, 01:06 PM
Canadan Zag Fan, When the redshirt Rumor was out you fought and disagreed that he should or would redshirt. Kelley, his Dad, made the discision best for Kelley and fortunate for GU. I hope we can give it a rest and not second guess KELLY'S decision. I just hope Kelly makes the most of his redshirt and has 2 more GREAT years and ample playing time. Really like the young man.

I am not questioning his decision, and there may be more to the decision than many on the board actually know. I support him with his decision, I was just putting a question out there on if people feel they would have like to have Kelly on this years roster or not, not if Kelly made the right decision or not.

I have never said Kelly made the wrong choice, and I still believe that he would be a better option than Sam on this current roster, but don't confuse that with questioning his decision or reasoning.

zag944
12-05-2011, 01:15 PM
He is a good player and a solid contributor that couldve swayed the Illinois game in our favor. But as a senior in 2 years when Harris and Sacre are playing elsewhere (hopefully in the NBA) he will sway a lot more games.

In almost no circumstance would I wish a player who redshirts didnt. It is almost always a very "program-friendly" move.

kitzbuel
12-05-2011, 01:38 PM
As I was watching the Illinois game I kept thinking to myself that I would have liked to see Kelly in this game. I still feel that Gonzaga could have gone with Rob, Kelly and Elias to start games, then subbing one out early and using them in a 3 man rotation the rest of the way. I know there were some injury concerns and that it seems to have been Kelly's decision to take the year off and work on his game, but I think the team would be better with him this year.

Basically you would swap Kelly for Stockton (or Carter) with this lineup. In this game it might have helped to have another player who could shoot well, maybe feed Harris more on the high-low. I think the down side is that we would have been considerably more vulnerable to the three with that line-up, even with the ideal line up of Sacre, KO, Harris, Bell and Pangos. Not sure Harris, Bell and Pangos are as effective perimeter defenders as Carter, Bell and Pangos or even Stockton, Bell and Pangos.

john montana
12-05-2011, 01:50 PM
I don't think there is a question that we could have used him, but taking a year off will probably benefit him a lot.

Vanzagger
12-05-2011, 03:08 PM
just think how fun it would be with Kyle Wiltger here also. Does Harris redshirt too?

I bet a lot of posters on here would say Harris couldn't play for the Wildcats. You know those kids get drafted.

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-05-2011, 03:17 PM
We could have used him on Saturday, but the program will be better off over the long haul for letting him take a year to physically mature. I'd rather have him be a contender from WCC Player of the Year as a redshirt senior than play 10-15 min. as a true junior. I honestly think he has a chance to be that good if we give him time.

Vanzagger
12-05-2011, 03:23 PM
thing about being better in the future. For Duke, at least while I was a kid, winning now was how they took care of the future. I don't think any bigs redshirted.

OK-ZagFan
12-05-2011, 06:05 PM
just think how fun it would be with Kyle Wiltger here also. Does Harris redshirt too?

I bet a lot of posters on here would say Harris couldn't play for the Wildcats. You know those kids get drafted.


Wiltger would have been riding the pine here also

cjm720
12-05-2011, 06:10 PM
Wiltger would have been riding the pine here also

Not a chance. Easily 20+ min average.

OK-ZagFan
12-05-2011, 06:17 PM
Not a chance. Easily 20+ min average.


I have seen him in person as you say NOT A Chance

GoZags
12-05-2011, 06:41 PM
thing about being better in the future. For Duke, at least while I was a kid, winning now was how they took care of the future. I don't think any bigs redshirted.

There are "cough" slight/subtle differences between the type of PSAs that Duke recruits (and gets) and the type of PSAs that Gonzaga recruits (and gets).

I'm happy for Duke that they don't do a whole lot of redshirting in their program. I'm also glad that Gonzaga does. It is my belief that Jeremy Eaton's redshirt significantly helped Gonzaga get to the Elite 8. It is also my belief that Kyle and Kelly's redshirts will pay huge dividends for Gonzaga down the road.

Vanzagger
12-06-2011, 10:57 AM
called us the Duke of the West Coast. I think we are better. I wish our coach did.

Robzagnut
12-06-2011, 11:12 AM
I'm glad KO and Drag took redshirts.

Don't rob Peter to pay Paul. GU has won 11 in a row for a reason. Spangler learns about the size and quickness of the game by contributing 4-5 minutes per game, KO and Drag get stronger and they will all fill in admirably next year when the upper classmen leave the program.

Beer_Engineer
12-06-2011, 01:28 PM
Nope

Hextall7388
12-06-2011, 02:05 PM
I recall a very similar discussion taking place in this forum back in 2009 when the debate was focused on whether Sacre should come back from his foot injury near the end of that season, which would have killed his medical redshirt. At that time we had Josh and Austin eating up all the minutes, and at best, Sacre would have played 5-10 minutes per game off the bench. Some argued that it would be better for the program long term for Sacre to take the medical redshirt. Others argued that we needed Sacre to make a deep run in the tournament that year. We will never know if having Sacre that year would have resulted in a deeper run, but we do know that we would not have Sacre this year if he had come back to play in 2009. Looking back now, I sure am happy that we get to enjoy watching Sacre as a 5th year senior. I am hoping to feel the same way in 2013 season, when Kelly is a 5th year senior playing with another 5th year senior, Sam, and GBJ and KP are juniors. It's a long way away, but it is a lineup that looks pretty good on paper..or my computer screen. I think the bottom line is that we were able to experience and enjoy the "decade of excellence" because we have a staff that is looking at the big picture and the long term success of the program and the players.

75Zag
12-06-2011, 02:30 PM
As long as we are kicking around old news, does anybody want to discuss the 1992 presidential election? It might be more interesting that this topic.

Zzzzzzzzz

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

GoZags
12-06-2011, 03:44 PM
called us the Duke of the West Coast. I think we are better. I wish our coach did.

Since Gonzaga's NCAA tourney streak began in '99.

Number of McDonald's AA going to a school out of h.s.

Duke: 29
Zags: 0

When the Zags start red shirting Burger Boys you may have a point. At least that is my opinion.