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View Full Version : If Gonzaga is ever to beat Michigan St then



Reborn
12-05-2011, 09:48 AM
now is the time. The Zags are at home in K2. Michigan St is young and rebuilding. In looking at Michigan States roster I think there is only one returning starter off last year's team, and that's Green. The match-up between Green and Harris will deinitely go a long ways in deciding the out come of the game. The other thing that I notice when looking at MSU's statistics for this year is that MSU makes it tough on their opponent's low post players. So this will be a challenge for Elias, Sacre and Dower.

I believe that if GU is to beat Michigan State they MUST shoot well over 72% from the foul line. I really don't understand what's happening with GU at the foul line this year. I don't think I've seen such aweful foul shooting for a Mark Few team. And the surprising thing to me is that these guys who are missing foul shots were much better last year: Harris, Carter, and Dower. To me it's been a matter of fucus and if I had one criticism of Gonzaga this year it is their lack of focus at times. Michigan St. guards very close and they will put the Zags on the line. Will we be ready to step up to that line and nail those shots?

Keys to beating MSU in my opinion: Take care of the ball and cut down on turnovers. MSU wants to get steals and run and score on layups.

Get back on defense: MSU loves to rebound and push the ball up court and beat their opponents up court. Michigan State's half court offense is not as good as Illlinois' at this time of year.

Shoot closer to 80% than 70% from the line.

Forget about getting offensive rebounds. Get back on defense. Work hard to keep MSU off the offensive boards.

Our guards are going to have to score in this game. I'm really hoping Pangos is hitting his 3 point shot attempts. The Zags' need him to shoot better than 1-5 from beyond the 3 pt line as he did against the Illini. If Marquis Carter is to come back and begin to play like he did the second half of last year then this would be a great game to have him back on that form.

If I'm not mistaken Big Ten refs will be officiating the game; so lets not expect to be at the free throw line a lot, but Please, let's make the one's we get.

zagzilla
12-05-2011, 09:55 AM
We have already beaten MSU-last time we played as a matter of fact.

Maui 3OT-amazing game when both teams were better than now IMO.

FWIW-
I do agree with the keys to winning AGAIN.

ZZ

Ezag
12-05-2011, 09:57 AM
We pwn them!

northsidezagfan
12-05-2011, 10:12 AM
We have already beaten MSU-last time we played as a matter of fact.

Maui 3OT-amazing game when both teams were better than now IMO.

FWIW-
I do agree with the keys to winning AGAIN.

ZZ

We lost Elias's frosh year when we played them @MSU, but yes we have beaten them before.

bostonzagfan
12-05-2011, 10:16 AM
in the end, they just need to have more points on the board.

i dont think winning any one category is key, as usually one team wins the turnover battle while the other wins the battle on the boards, etc, but what will be key is not getting killed in any one area IMO

Vanzagger
12-05-2011, 10:24 AM
Prepare this team like they are playing the Lakers in a game 7 in Staples.

Do this for every game. Try to bury everyone all the time. Embrace expectations.

Be nice after the game.

GoZags
12-05-2011, 10:36 AM
At the start of the "cute little run" in Dec. '97 -- shortly after beating Tulsa, Mississippi State and Clemson to win the "Top of the World" Classic, Dan Monson took the Zags to E. Lansing where they lost 70-68 on a last second put-back after Bakari Hendrix swatted Mateen Cleaves' "game-winning" shot. Unfortunately, it went straight to one of MSU's bigs who laid it in at the buzzer.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1988&dat=19971201&id=QlEiAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ba0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=2767,2805291

In a game very, very similar to Saturday's Illinois loss -- #1 Seed Michigan State beat #12 seed Gonzaga in the Sweet 16 in March of '01. Just like Illinois pounded on (and wore out) Rob Sacre -- the Spartans did the same to Casey Calvary. Casey was flat out exhausted in the 2nd half as Michigan State won by 15.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2001/03/23/gonzaga-62-michigan-state-77

Here's hoping Gonzaga can get a 2nd win on Saturday against Izzo's gang. Should be a great college basketball game.

Baldwinzag
12-05-2011, 10:45 AM
REBOUND, REBOUND, and then REBOUND some more.

Mich St is ranked 2nd in the Country in rebounds for a reason. It wasn't a fluke they out-rebounded UNC's NBA front court by 10 and Duke's three 6'11 guys by 3.

Spangler for 15mins over Dower anyone? We need to match their aggression and toughness in the paint and Rob still may be feeling affects from a whip-lash.

That said, they are ranked nearly dead-last in 3pt shooting as team (29%).

Our zone worked pretty well for awhile vs Illinois, yet having Stocks AND Pangos manning the top of the a 2-3 defensive zone is borderline _______, imo.

Its not like we have to be perfect on offense vs MSU. Rebounding, toughness, & defense are paramount in this one.

The Spartans avg 10 less ppg than we do(68ppg). A lackluster scoring team, yet they beat you with, well, beating you. They don't have a player sub-190 lbs on the team. They attack the ball on misses, averaging 14 off boards per game, and clean up every single one of the opposing teams' misses as well.

Mich St isn't a very good shooting team from the floor. They rely heavily on Green(14ppg, 11rpg) to score every single garage bucket and fight his way near the hoop. He doesn't have many post moves, but he's a fearless bruiser.

If we thought Illinois was big, quick, and strong, just wait to see MSU's lineup.

They have a shooting guard who is 6'6", 220lbs, his back-up is 6'5", 210lbs, and Center who is 6'9", 285 lbs, etc. All athletic.

Their PG, in MSU's terms, is tiny. He's just 6'1", 190lbs.

They use their muscle to their advantage. Much like Illinois relentless attacking offense, they are very similar -- see my detailed breakdown of Illinois and insert 'Mich St'.

In some ways, we match-up better vs MSU. No 7'1" guys running 4.4 40's on Mich St; however MSU would out-muscle and man-handle Illinois from a toughness perspective. We were on the short end of the stick on Saturday and two of our players were injured as a result.

We'll have to take another step forward to compete in this one. If I'm 'Coach for a day', I'm playing my biggest, baddest, toughest this game.

Pangos, Bell, Hart, Harris, Sacre. Spangler 1st off bench(15 mins for 5+ rebs). Carter for Bell(10-15 mins), Stockton for Pangos(5 mins) and can we play Sacre and Harris for all 40;)? Ok, Dower for 10 mins for fouls.

Baldwinzag
12-05-2011, 11:03 AM
Also, if we continue to see Pangos and Stockton together for extended time, manning our 2-3 zone, or guarding their 6'5" & 6'6" off-guards this game, I might shat myself...

One at time is just fine.

We don't need to score 85 pts to beat MSU, folks. Nope. They score 67 per game and are a sub-par shooting team. We'll need more defense, athleticism, and toughness. Open up the bench a little bit vs a messy MSU offense, we can afford it this time around. A lil more Spang, a lot more GBJ, maybe even Keita on key defensive possessions, etc.

Playing our two lead guards at the same time plays right into their game plan. They beat teams by bull-dozing their way to the hoop, playing physical around the rim, rebounding relentlessly, and physical defense.

ok, not going to mention that anymore, just DO it already.

bartruff1
12-05-2011, 11:07 AM
The spread plus .... we match up well with MSU and we have the Kennel advantage...the front court will likely be a toss up and our guards will play with confidence and hit more shots...I will be surprised if Gonzaga doesn't win this game...

Oregonzagnut
12-05-2011, 11:13 AM
We need to slow down. When we tried to play up-tempo we floundered. A solid backcourt means our entire team is more sound all the way around. But their youth caused very untimely turnovers.

Now we need to Gel, think straight, take care of the ball and don't worry about fast breaks or transition.

An efficient and FAST paced transition game is essential for beating their defense down the floor, but we do not have our timing down or our freshman's court awareness yet. YET!!!

That is my opinion to beating MSU. We worked the ball inside successfully, but we couldn't hit bunny shots when we needed them. Also on our steals and the ensuing transition, 3 times we took it up the middle and ghadit stolen right back.

We need to slow down and trust our front court to get open. It did not fail us against Illinois. What failed us was our sloppy up-tempo game and our mental mistakes. Take those away due to "hurrying" and we will be unstoppable.

That is my current opinion.

Reborn
12-05-2011, 04:18 PM
Michigan States guards are not as big as you're being told. Sorry. They are smaller than Illinois'. Their pg is Appling. He's 6'1 and weis 180 pounds. Pangos is 6' 1" and weigh 180. That's a draw. Wood is the two guard and is 6'2" and weight 190 pounds. GBJ is 6'1" and 205. Carter is 6'4" 180 pounds. The guy you must be talking about is Dawson who is a Freshman, and so far has not been that significant. He weighs 6' 6" and weighs 216. Mike Hart is 6'6" and weighs 206. Their backup at the 3 and who plays a lot too, is a white kid and I do not know his name or height and weight. He looks about Hart's size.

Their first guard off the bench, who is a Freshman, is 6' and weigh 165. Really not much more than Stockton. So let's keep it REAL. Michigan St is not the size of Illinois. They may be as tough, but imo they will not be tougher. That was a tough Illinois team. Their 3's are more like Mike Hart than Richardson from Illinois. Their scoring comes from Woods, Appling and Green. Woods and Appling are quick and fast, and Trice, who comes off the bench is faster. Imo, Woods and Appling are as good as Richardson and Paul, but not because they are big. They are fast. I think Zags will be able to match up better with Appling and Woods better than they did Richardson and Paul. Zags did a great job defending Illinois pointguard, and I think could do well agains Appling. If they can stop appling from scoring the way they did Maniscalco, I think it will be great. As I said earlier, the key will be for our guards to get back on defense (well the whole team really). Michigan State's guards love to push the ball up fast and not let their opponents defense get set up. Woods and Applebee score best in transition.

Also Michigan St is a great defensive team, but they have a different style then Ilinois does. Illinois used a great defensive player, Richardson, who is 6'4" on Pangos. And it slowed Pangos down a lot, and it was tough to shoot over him. But as we all know, defense is a team concept and Izzo is a master of defense.

04ZagFan
12-05-2011, 04:26 PM
I still find it a little odd MSU isn't ranked... Two losses were to two really good teams, and they played right with Duke.. IMO Michigan State is a top 25 team. I'm really glad this game is at home, because I think MSU is the superior team.

bballbeachbum
12-05-2011, 04:39 PM
have to own the defensive glass. biggest problem with the GU zones to me are the offensive rebounds yielded, changes the game. It's not uncommon to give up o boards when playing a zone, but it's no excuse, and it hurt vs Illinois; GU didn't board well out of it after boarding very well M2M I thought.

own the d glass first and foremost, with all 5 boxing out every time, and then all the other important usual suspects--cherish the ball, get out in transition both ways hard, drain when you're open, don't let them get happy from deep,e tc.--but that battle on the GU defensive glass...have to win that battle, and it will take all 5 guys each possession to accomplish it one defensive board at a time.

if you want to see Coach Izzo (who I admire and respect tremendously) flip out, then hope GU grabs its own share of offensive rebounds and turns them into points. He really hates that :)

75Zag
12-05-2011, 05:42 PM
I am not a big fan of the 3 guard offense, but Michigan State used it to perfection against Florida State. Appling, Wood and the other guard sliced and diced Florida State. I think Appling and Wood had 17 rebounds and 40 points between them, and the other guard was no slacker either. Time to see if the GU "guard university" slipper still fits.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

OK-ZagFan
12-05-2011, 05:44 PM
REBOUND, REBOUND, and then REBOUND some more.

Mich St is ranked 2nd in the Country in rebounds for a reason. It wasn't a fluke they out-rebounded UNC's NBA front court by 10 and Duke's three 6'11 guys by 3.

Spangler for 15mins over Dower anyone? We need to match their aggression and toughness in the paint and Rob still may be feeling affects from a whip-lash.

That said, they are ranked nearly dead-last in 3pt shooting as team (29%).

Our zone worked pretty well for awhile vs Illinois, yet having Stocks AND Pangos manning the top of the a 2-3 defensive zone is borderline _______, imo.

Its not like we have to be perfect on offense vs MSU. Rebounding, toughness, & defense are paramount in this one.

The Spartans avg 10 less ppg than we do(68ppg). A lackluster scoring team, yet they beat you with, well, beating you. They don't have a player sub-190 lbs on the team. They attack the ball on misses, averaging 14 off boards per game, and clean up every single one of the opposing teams' misses as well.

Mich St isn't a very good shooting team from the floor. They rely heavily on Green(14ppg, 11rpg) to score every single garage bucket and fight his way near the hoop. He doesn't have many post moves, but he's a fearless bruiser.

If we thought Illinois was big, quick, and strong, just wait to see MSU's lineup.

They have a shooting guard who is 6'6", 220lbs, his back-up is 6'5", 210lbs, and Center who is 6'9", 285 lbs, etc. All athletic.

Their PG, in MSU's terms, is tiny. He's just 6'1", 190lbs.

They use their muscle to their advantage. Much like Illinois relentless attacking offense, they are very similar -- see my detailed breakdown of Illinois and insert 'Mich St'.

In some ways, we match-up better vs MSU. No 7'1" guys running 4.4 40's on Mich St; however MSU would out-muscle and man-handle Illinois from a toughness perspective. We were on the short end of the stick on Saturday and two of our players were injured as a result.

We'll have to take another step forward to compete in this one. If I'm 'Coach for a day', I'm playing my biggest, baddest, toughest this game.

Pangos, Bell, Hart, Harris, Sacre. Spangler 1st off bench(15 mins for 5+ rebs). Carter for Bell(10-15 mins), Stockton for Pangos(5 mins) and can we play Sacre and Harris for all 40;)? Ok, Dower for 10 mins for fouls.

+1