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bigblahla
12-04-2011, 10:05 AM
IMO there is a difference between a shooter and a scorer and the difference is ball delivery to the basket.

Scorers shoot at the basket, Shooters use arc and drop the ball on the basket where they get that friendly little bounce called shooter's touch. Some scorers are both but not all IMO.

Cardinal sin for both is missing short. If the ball doesn't get to the rim and over the rim there is very little chance it will go in.

I have a nickname I call one of the current Lady Zags and have ever since I saw her first game. She'll go nameless here but her nickname is "Brick" as she continually puts the ball off the front of the rim.

My opinion is if you miss, miss long. Anyone have any thoughts on this and our current group of Zags?

Go!! Zags!!!

Birddog
12-04-2011, 10:14 AM
Miss short = lack of leg usually. You see it more at the end of the game. Pangos was short on at least 2 of his long balls yesterday but I doubt it was leg, might have been sight lines in an unfamiliar arena.

Baldwinzag
12-04-2011, 10:16 AM
Nice post, big.

Speaking of "shooter", I'd like to see two players on this roster shoot WAY more in mid-range and/or touch shots.

Pangos & Elias.

Both have shown a knack for hitting the tough shot i.e. when the defense provides space w/i 15 ft, touch shots off the glass, & off the dribble.

I'd consider them the only shooters AND scorers as you put it.

Pangos, for instance, was 4-5 from inside the arc and had some beautiful touch shots off the glass and in the lane. Same with Elias vs ND & Illinois.

I'd like to see Kevin dial back a bit on the 3-pt shot(unless open) and become more of a scorer. Same can be said w/Elias except, I wouldn't mind seeing "E" actually shoot away from the hoop. All his misses are close misses -- never a bad shot for him. Its the first time I've wanted a big to space the floor even more and actually shoot it.

We're going to need both to step up w/GBJ likely out for a little bit. He was another "scorer" in my mind.

I think Kevin is very capable of scoring in the lane more as he showed vs Illinois. He could expand his game and he's making the shots at a higher clip than contested 3pt forced shots right now. He had a very nice mid-range game in HS and want to see him become our other "shooter" AND "scorer".

Therunner
12-04-2011, 10:20 AM
Miss short = lack of leg usually. You see it more at the end of the game. Pangos was short on at least 2 of his long balls yesterday but I doubt it was leg, might have been sight lines in an unfamiliar arena.

, yet money on his shots inside the perimeter. Kevin displayed some really nice shots/moves yesterday. found a way to go 4-5 from 2pt when his shot 3pt shot was off -- a quiet 11pts, 3 asts, 4 rebs, 1 TO vs pressure. Nice, unspoken game by the young guard.

bballbeachbum
12-04-2011, 10:34 AM
considering Illinois looked to smother GU on the perimeter and force counters to that defensive approach, the mid-range game is big and penetrating the paint to find answers is huge. Until we beat teams doing that, I expect teams will continue looking to force GU to provide those kinds of answers as IL tended to do, making open 3s tougher to find. I'd like to see someone take their guy off the bounce to the rack, then do it again without forcing because he can. GBJs done it a few times, KPs worked the pick for the rim a couple of times, to speak of the freshmen. Out of bounds plays can get some open looks from deep or plays going to the rim, baseline OB plays.

hurting them inside helps too, but when the defensive emphasis flips to doubling or muddling the middle, the boys have to realize it poste haste and then do all these cool mid range counters and stuff of the bounce to help RS out

bigblahla
12-04-2011, 10:46 AM
Miss short = lack of leg usually. You see it more at the end of the game. Pangos was short on at least 2 of his long balls yesterday but I doubt it was leg, might have been sight lines in an unfamiliar arena.

Bird I remember both shots and as soon as they left his hand I could tell from the arc they were short and your comment on sight lines is accurate. I agree about legs however tired legs can be offset by release point and follow through.

Normally a higher release point increases arc and follow through with the wrist will add distance. Very few of our Zags have what I would consider consistent prime shooting form releasing the ball at the top of their jump with full arm extension over their head with wrist follow through. The one shot Leonard made over Rob that turnaround jumper was unblock-able and a perfect release high and at the top of his jump. He paid no attention to the defender concentrated on the shot and made it with ease.

Baldwin I agree about the mid-range game we have plenty of opportunites for unguarded jumpers inside the foul line but either dribble into pressure or don't take the time to just focus on the shot go up and score. Sometimes it seems the offensive player with the ball is more concerned with the defender than just getting open and shooting.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

04ZagFan
12-04-2011, 11:45 AM
Might be somewhat off topic, but since the topic is "Shooting the ball" I believe it's somewhat appropriate.... I don't think this team shoots enough from distance. Not enough plays to get Pangos, Bell, and even Stockton shots. The three point line is usually where games are won and lost. We need more off the ball picks to get our shooters open.... I understand our strength is Rob and Elias in the post, but I still think our shooters need more opportunities, and that starts with play calling... Would even got Hoff more involved. Pangos, Bell, and Hoff running around, coming off multiple picks like Ray Allen. I'd like to see more of that.

WallaWallaZag
12-04-2011, 11:57 PM
Might be somewhat off topic, but since the topic is "Shooting the ball" I believe it's somewhat appropriate.... I don't think this team shoots enough from distance. Not enough plays to get Pangos, Bell, and even Stockton shots. The three point line is usually where games are won and lost. We need more off the ball picks to get our shooters open.... I understand our strength is Rob and Elias in the post, but I still think our shooters need more opportunities, and that starts with play calling... Would even got Hoff more involved. Pangos, Bell, and Hoff running around, coming off multiple picks like Ray Allen. I'd like to see more of that.

i think we're going to have to live with limited outside opportunities against teams like illinois...at least for now until pangos and bell really get adjusted. defensive-minded teams which pressure the perimeter and have superior athletes are going to cause problems for this version of the zags.