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LongIslandZagFan
12-03-2011, 06:13 PM
The youth of the Zags did more damage than anything else. Too many times they'd get over excited with the steal and got sloppy.

Sacre had a rough game... regardless of his points... he had hardly any boards at half and was missing shots that are typically money for him. Second half was a combination of injury and refs deciding to call the game differently on him (not blaming the refs per se)... 12 of Leanord's 21 came after Big Rob got injured... just sayin'...

Inexplicably bad shooting from 3 land for a good part of the game... not typical of the Zags and not as a result of good Illinois defense.

Man to man defense... IMHO, Mark should switch to zone only when necessary... LOVE the defensive intensity especially on the perimeter when they are playing M2M.

Overall take... youthful mistakes like the gift back after a steal can be fixed. The outside shooting woes early was out of the norm... I'll take it with a grain of salt and say "meh, it happens from time to time"... Rob's struggles probably had much more to do with the injury than he lets on...

The heart is there folks... they battled back, again, and again, and again. Take that for what it is... and that is a very good thing. The execution and chemistry can only get better from here.

Baldwinzag
12-03-2011, 06:29 PM
Nice breakdown & post, LIZF.

Here is my quick take on the game:

http://www.galesburg.com/archive/x560072348/g12c0000000000000009eaf1a04ecac9b928988d23121cef1f de8f9e78e.jpg
sorry, but true.

Oregonzagnut
12-03-2011, 06:50 PM
The youth of the Zags did more damage than anything else. Too many times they'd get over excited with the steal and got sloppy.

The heart is there folks... they battled back, again, and again, and again. Take that for what it is... and that is a very good thing. The execution and chemistry can only get better from here.

Amen! This game was not one team clearly better than the other. we set up everything better, but they had the home advantage and somehow the BALL knew it because it didn't like our hoop as much.

The box score shows an even game in almost every way. The only difference was rebounding and FT's and....... some bad luck to be honest. But that is why home games seem to favor the home team. Hmmmm. that is a new one.

jim77
12-03-2011, 06:59 PM
Sometimes losing is more about what the other team does than what the ZAGS do.

The game started with us predictably going inside almost everytime to get fouls on ILL. We were successul and Rob got some points. However,they had more than enough fouls to give and good rest for Leonard....who did most of the damage with Rob out. (We could have used Kelly O today) We had nobody even close to guarding Leonard with Rob out.

The other thing going on was Illinois plays defense and they keep their hands at the ready....they disrupted our passing game and all but ended our pick and pops and such. They also got into our guards who due to their size/athletics are not gonna create consitantly against them....there weren't' very many open 3 looks. In fact, they made us work hard the whole game(we went deep into the shot clock a bunch of times)...and wore Poor Rob out.

If you can't out athlete a team and you can't out execute a team, whats left? Whats left is players who can create with minimal support....athletic types. I'm not dissing our guards but they were up against guys as good if not better than they are. The fact is we need folks that can create their own shot at certain times and against certain teams. Theres a reason why teams like Kentucky and NC win most of their games and that is because they have the superior athletic players. So am I saying we can't compete? I think we can but, we have a very narrow margin of error against certain teams.

I felt like Elias showed well today and he has the ability to create against athletic teams....GBJ was the other guy who really impressed when he started taking the game to them (I really really hope the kid is NOT seriously injured) near the end. We need more Elias and GBJ and quit depending too much on Rob. We need more attacking the hoop like "E" and GBJ....and EDI should help too. We also need to keep our hands up more on "D". I admire our ability to keep coming back but.....we played from behind most of the day. We did make some mistakes but, the FIGTING ILLINI were our biggest obstacle.

It was good for us to play a good Illini team which should help us in the long run get ready for the Mich ST types.

I also think that guys who are long and athletic (KIETA..MOONINGHOF) should have gotten more PT(IN the 2nd half) because the "SET" plays were pretty much a failure....especially KIETA.

I'm sure the early start didn't help either....on to the next game.

MDABE80
12-03-2011, 07:25 PM
KEITA is a maniac on defense. Long quick and clingy. Edi plays defense like that. Keita would have been perfect today on defense. Clingy and disruptive as we'll see.
But all in all, LIZ's post is a bout what happened........
Can't take that loss back. As for MM? I suspect he's down on the depth chart. Sad too because he's a good shooter...less so in the first few OOC games so far but shoooting is very good.

Meyers Leonard is a very good, very mobile and agile 7 footer. Balance is great and her's got hops. I suspect we'll see him in the NBA ..unless he had a freakishly good game against us.

VinnyZag
12-03-2011, 07:31 PM
I wholeheartedly agree about the zone defense. Few explained it thusly (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/dec/03/illinois-hands-gonzaga-first-loss/):


“Their motion is so hard to guard. (Coach Bruce Weber’s) guys sprint and move and come off multiple screens and he teaches his guys how to read screens,” Few said. “Two times we got caught on dunks when we were chasing Richardson and Paul around screens. That’s why we went zone, and it worked for a while.”

Thing is, the zone DIDN'T work.

JPtheBeasta
12-04-2011, 11:17 AM
I wholeheartedly agree about the zone defense. Few explained it thusly (http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2011/dec/03/illinois-hands-gonzaga-first-loss/):


Thing is, the zone DIDN'T work.

I'm becoming a broken record, but I think the zone was the right idea but we need more length than Pangos and Stockton (at the same time) have to offer to make it work well.

MickMick
12-04-2011, 12:44 PM
I disagree LIZF.

Not a youth problem.

Except for Sacre and Stockton, the returning players are not living up to the billing. The youngsters are playing better. They make freshman mistakes but so do the "veterans".

Zags would fare better with Pangos, Bell, and Stockton soaking up all the guard minutes. I would like to see Kieta in there at SF as well.

roxdoc
12-04-2011, 01:24 PM
What I take away from the game are two things:

1. We should not be so predictably one-dimensional from the get go, ie inside game. As much as I like Rob and admire his game, he just is not effective enough to carry this plan off against another high-level big man (men). Yes he can make his points, but should not be relied on as our primary scoring weapon.

2. Most importantly we are missing a big, athletic, scoring SF or if you will, “wing”. For a variety of physical or ability reasons Hart, MM, and Carter just don’t/can’t fit this bill. Perhaps Landry will be the answer. From reports it seems that at a minimum he could produce as well as what we have now. Here is hoping!

Playing 3 “small” guards against serious D-1 competition just will not get the job done. Might get away with 2 smalls plus a 6-6 athletic guy.

john montana
12-04-2011, 06:31 PM
My take...carter is killing us. That and hart's limitations on offense are severely limiting few's options. We basically have to play three guards and with Carter's head in the clouds we end up forced to play Stockton with pangos and bell. How good would this team be with WCC tournament version of carter, pangos, bell, Harris and Sacre? A lot better than we are right now. we really need carter to get his game back.

Or maybe edi will be the answer at the three so bell and pangos can play the bulk of the guard minutes with carter and stockton filling in...not sure, I haven't seen edi play.

All I want for Christmas is carter to return to form and dower to find his last year groove!

Outraged
12-04-2011, 10:14 PM
We have bench talent. Illi has bench talent. We had small rotation. They had a large rotation. As a team they were better able to utilize their extended talent. Look at the box score minutes. Monson had a ten man rotation. Few has always run a tight rotation and overall it has worked well. But this is a special team that deserves an expanded look.