PDA

View Full Version : PTI today



deathchina
07-04-2007, 03:36 PM
Anyone catch the comments about Ammo? Adonde basically ripped AMMO for being too sensitive, said it's ridiculous that the number 3 pick in the NBA draft aspires to be a "2nd or 3rd option" type guy.....

RandomZagFan
07-04-2007, 04:02 PM
I saw the PTI show today. Perhaps they were a bit too harsh, but may have provided a valid argument, since Ammo openly admitted to being affected by criticism.

Hopefully he can regain his confidence next year and prove his naysayers wrong.

applezag
07-04-2007, 04:14 PM
It's hard to disagree with that point. If I drafted a player third I wouldn't want to hear him talking about being the third option.

sittingon50
07-04-2007, 05:34 PM
I was surfing & saw Morrison's name on the list of topics so stuck around. Lebetard starts to criticize Adam & proceeds to mispronounce Gonzaga.

Impressed, I immediately change back to the Twilight Zone marathon on the SciFi Channel.

sanfranzagsguy20
07-04-2007, 06:21 PM
adande is right that is ridiculous...adam is capable of more and although he's only played one season, a number three pick and the hype that came with adam after his 05-06 year here needs to bring more to the table soon or the "bust" label wont be far from the conversation

not saying he will be a bust but it is a distinct possiblity based on production and where he was chosen

ZagDaddy
07-04-2007, 07:19 PM
adande is right that is ridiculous...adam is capable of more and although he's only played one season, a number three pick and the hype that came with adam after his 05-06 year here needs to bring more to the table soon or the "bust" label wont be far from the conversation

not saying he will be a bust but it is a distinct possiblity based on production and where he was chosen

I start to lose patience when people rip on Adam's production last year on that piece of c**p team and that piece of c**p offensive scheme.

The Bobcats downright stink. I watched more games than I should admit and that entire team looked like a bunch of individuals auditioning for their next team--gawd awful! You could just see Adam's enthusiasm for the game fade playing for Bickerstaff.

The offensive set completely misused him by trying to use him as spot up 3 shooter and rarely ran him off of screens. Maybe Vincent will be an improvement but I pray Adam is traded somewhere Michael Jordan isn't.

If someone wants to rip on him for anything rip on his defense not his production.

azzagfan
07-04-2007, 07:27 PM
I have to admit I thought the same thing Adande did when I read the Charlotte Observer article. He may have been misquoted or taken out of context as far as we know. I didn't make any comments when I posted the link because I've had a few critical comments the last few days and I was trying to use all the tools my Zen master taught me to find the positive.

MDABE80
07-04-2007, 08:36 PM
Those guys were on Ammo's ass when he was in college....and it was terrible! Moreso with Bayless. Adam had a decent rookie year NOT a terrible year. I quite agree with one thing though: he needs to grow up. Immaturity will ruin a career. It leads to a substandard approach to everything.
There will be jackassed fans everywhere he goes. Not because of Adam......but he's an easy target. Those fans who ride players should be banned from the arena. It demeans the game and the franchise to leave em around. Nonetheless, howAdam responds is up to him. He can be a professional or he can be a punk......it's up to him.

sullyzag66
07-04-2007, 09:03 PM
Those guys were on Ammo's ass when he was in college....and it was terrible! Moreso with Bayless. Adam had a decent rookie year NOT a terrible year. I quite agree with one thing though: he needs to grow up. Immaturity will ruin a career. It leads to a substandard approach to everything.
There will be jackassed fans everywhere he goes. Not because of Adam......but he's an easy target. Those fans who ride players should be banned from the arena. It demeans the game and the franchise to leave em around. Nonetheless, howAdam responds is up to him. He can be a professional or he can be a punk......it's up to him.
He used fan abuse as an incentive to rip the other team while at Gonzaga. He needs to tap into that again, but it's hard to get anything done when he can't get the ball.

deathchina
07-04-2007, 09:30 PM
"but it's hard to get anything done when he can't get the ball."


Quick question.

Who was last in the NBA last year in field goal percentage (among players that took enough shots to qualify)? ------- Rafer Alston

Who was second worst? ----- AMMO

When you play pickup ball, do you like passing to the guy that keeps missing shots, doesn't rebound, doesn't pass the ball, and keeps getting beat on defense?

MickMick
07-04-2007, 09:51 PM
If Ammo stayed at Gonzaga for his senior year:

The franchise players like Durant, Oden, Horford, etc. would have pushed him deeper down to a better, possible playoff caliber team. Less would have been asked of him.

What if he had swapped draft positions with Brandon Roy? Would Roy still be rookie of the year? Would Ammo still be the "near bust"?

Ammo needs to get on a different team...quickly.

sullyzag66
07-04-2007, 10:32 PM
"but it's hard to get anything done when he can't get the ball."


Quick question.

Who was last in the NBA last year in field goal percentage (among players that took enough shots to qualify)? ------- Rafer Alston

Who was second worst? ----- AMMO

When you play pickup ball, do you like passing to the guy that keeps missing shots, doesn't rebound, doesn't pass the ball, and keeps getting beat on defense?
I expected that reply, but resisted preempting it. I watched quite a few games last year and, yes, his FGP was horrible, but I don't think that was why he was not getting the ball. Early in the year he was establishing position and coming off screens but hardly got the ball. He was an amateur when it came to ball-hogging. Later in the year, he just hung around the perimeter and when he did get the ball he threw it up. I think that's why his FGP was so bad. He never seemed to be part of the offense whether by coach's design or players not working together.

Of course, rebounding and defense were embarrassing. . .

JAGzag
07-05-2007, 04:01 AM
Ammo's comments, if true, don't bother me all that much. We know this guy is a scorer and we know his competitive side - second to none. Perhaps he was merely being diplomatic. After all, the "second year" guy with little standing, especially after an average first year, can't stand up and yell, "get me the damn ball!"

RenoZag
07-05-2007, 05:34 AM
If Adam proves out to be a middle-of-the road NBA player it wouldn't be the first time a highly touted college player didn't achieve the same level of success in the Association.

So now he has one year under his belt, has obviously sat back and analyzed his opportunities for improvement, and says he's looking forward to year # 2.

I'm rooting for him.

soonerterp
07-05-2007, 08:11 AM
(bold emphasis is mine!)


I start to lose patience when people rip on Adam's production last year on that piece of c**p team and that piece of c**p offensive scheme.

The Bobcats downright stink. I watched more games than I should admit and that entire team looked like a bunch of individuals auditioning for their next team--gawd awful! You could just see Adam's enthusiasm for the game fade playing for Bickerstaff.

The offensive set completely misused him by trying to use him as spot up 3 shooter and rarely ran him off of screens. Maybe Vincent will be an improvement but I pray Adam is traded somewhere Michael Jordan isn't.

If someone wants to rip on him for anything rip on his defense not his production.

I've been saying for a while that Charlotte was not a good situation for him. I would like to see him elsewhere too. I just don't know where he'd fit.

DavyZag
07-05-2007, 08:38 AM
(bold emphasis is mine!)



I've been saying for a while that Charlotte was not a good situation for him. I would like to see him elsewhere too. I just don't know where he'd fit.

I think Ammo would do best in a more free-flowing, run-and-gun type offense... something like Phoenix or Golden State. We all know that he can hit shots from anywhere and has good size to create mis-matches - he would be perfect in an up-and-down style where he can just put on his shooting display and not worry about defense and rebounding.

A half-court type of offense is no good for him because it exposes his weaknesses - defense, rebounding, strength.

Bring him out West!!!

sonuvazag
07-05-2007, 08:50 AM
Good point, DavyZag. Though none of the run-and-gun teams have won paydirt yet, more are copying the Suns style probably because of the attention it gets. The past year, the Wizards were totally eager to be tagged as the Suns of the East. This kind of trend will work out for Adam in time.

deathchina
07-05-2007, 09:14 AM
"Early in the year he was establishing position and coming off screens but hardly got the ball. He was an amateur when it came to ball-hogging. Later in the year, he just hung around the perimeter and when he did get the ball he threw it up. I think that's why his FGP was so bad."


Interesting theory. However, the actual facts tell a different story. Ammo was getting the ball a LOT early in the season. In fact, he was averaging more shots per game than any other Bobcat player. More than Okafor, more than Gerald Wallace. However, he was shooting the ball so poorly (his first two months of the season were actually his worst in terms of field goal percentage) he started getting less looks. By the end of the season he was averaging half as many shots per game.

Okafor - 53 percent shooting for the year
Wallace - 50 percent shooting
Ammo - 38 percent shooting.

Ammo stopped getting looks because he wasn't delivering and there were better options available. And if you look at game by game results, the Bobcats were winning more when Ammo played (and shot) less.




Perhaps the secret to his struggles can be found in his home and away splits. Ammo shot 33 percent from the field at home and 41 percent from the field on the road. While 41 percent isn't great, it would have been somewhat acceptable for a rookie. Maybe he really DID feel the pressure to perform at home after the Bobcats invested so much in him.



Clearly the bobcats and Ammo aren't a good fit (And they just resigned Matt Carroll to a long term contract, as well as trading for Jason Richardson so perhaps his days there are numbered). But I think it is silly to blame them for all his rookie woes. You can't redesign your offense for a guy that strolls in and shoots 37 percent the first two months of the season.

DavyZag
07-05-2007, 10:05 AM
Jeesh deathchina... got a problem with Ammo? Look, I don't think anyone is going to come in here and say that he had an awesome rookie year. He didn't. He struggled mightily at times. But still... he had enough good nights here and there and even took over games at times - he proved he could play at the NBA level. The trick is him figuring out how to do it consistently every night and over 82 games.

But really... there's no point in pissing on him. He's obviously frustrated with the situation and knowing Ammo he will do everything it takes to get things straight.

deathchina
07-05-2007, 11:10 AM
Guys, I have no problem with Ammo. I honestly thought he was going to lead us to the final four because I saw a will to win in him that is very very rare.

However, I don't understand why everyone wants to blame Bickerstaff, the Bobcats, North Carolina fans, yada yada yada as the reason Ammo had a "average" season. He wasn't average, and he has no one to blame but himself. He'd be the first to admit it. There are plenty of blatant homers on this board, I'm just trying to provide some objective opinions.

cggonzaga
07-05-2007, 11:17 AM
A look back at the previous 5 years no. 3 draft picks. (quite a group imo)

2005 - Deron Williams 10.8ppg 42%
2004 - Ben Gordon 15ppg 41%
2003 - Carmelo Anthony 21ppg 42%
2002 - Mike Dunleavy 5.7ppg 40%
2001 - Pau Gasol 17ppg 51%

I think we've all seen considerable increases in ppg and % for all these guys. I don't think Morrison is that far off par from previous no. 3 picks. Ammo is going to be fine wherever he plays. I really believe he'll average over 20ppg over his career. He'll never shoot a high percentage because he's a gunner and takes too many shots. He was a rookie last year for God's sake. Give him another year or two and then make your judgements. Very few rookies make an impact their first few years.

CDC84
07-05-2007, 11:31 AM
Folks, Deathchina is just putting forth the facts. He wants to see Ammo succeed as much as anyone. Trust me.

Adam just didn't have a good season, and it really can't be blamed on one specific thing. It doesn't mean that he can't get better. For myself, I predicted from the get go that he would struggle quite a lot in his first year because so much of his dominance at the college level had to do with size mismatches which don't exist in the NBA. This would happen no matter what organization drafted him. But Ammo is a creative offensive player, and he has shown time and again that he can make all sorts of adjustments to assert his will on the floor.

I have my own problems with Bickerstaff, but for reasons I don't want to get too much into in this forum. I am hoping that the new coaching regime will help.....it's very important that the new staff understand that no matter how much the games matter in the NBA, Ammo is a player that needs coaching assistance beyond just what occurs in practice. He's not somebody who can just work out of a shooting slump on his own through endless reps. Adam didn't just better his 3 point shooting % between his soph and junior years at Gonzaga thru shooting the ball on his own....it also came about because there were coaches there advising him, adjusting his form, etc.

sonuvazag
07-05-2007, 12:20 PM
I'm not going to be attacking your right to opine, at all, DeathChina. Opposing views are good for the health of the board and they give us, pollyannas, more to talk about. If you want to give an honest and realistic take about Adam, by all means, give it a hard look.

Interesting that you use the term "objective opinion." Got me thinking. Even a presentation of statistics as fact includes a selecitve and subjective choice. There has to be a reason to compare Adam's shooting percentage to Emeka's. I get Wallace, but why Okafer? Is it because of his high draft status--higher than Adam's.

Examining the situation in Charlotte surrounding Adam is not only to get the blame off Adam's shoulders. It's also to make sense of what has been a rough start for someone we think can do better. Adam's greatness is in how he responds to his challenges. Just curious, but aren't all of Charlotte's starters more or less, high draft picks?

dim4sum
07-05-2007, 01:12 PM
Although Adam is the first to insist that what he does on the court should not be judged in the context that he is a diabetic, the reality is that the diabetes is, indeed, a big factor.
An out-of-control high blood sugar level one night makes you lethargic while low blood sugar levels the next night makes for hyperexcitability and an inability to concentrate. As a pro, he plays three times as many games as in the college level and may not have anyone around , other than himself, to monitor the swings in his sugar levels.
Also in college, I recall, there was a heavy intake of animal fat, in the form of steaks, before games. Three times as much, in the course of the year, invites other problems, apart from diabetes.
Also, as a long-term diabetic with juvenile diabetes, his vision needs to be monitored constantly. Maybe, just maybe, the missed shots were related to vision problems.
The point I'm making is that Adam's health problems, those disclosed or undisclosed, ARE an issue, which no amount of bravado or trash talk can
overcome.

deathchina
07-06-2007, 09:56 AM
"There has to be a reason to compare Adam's shooting percentage to Emeka's. I get Wallace, but why Okafer? Is it because of his high draft status--higher than Adam's."

Perhaps I wasn't clear. Someone said the bobcats weren't giving Ammo enough looks, so I stated that Ammo actually lead the team in shots per game the first couple months of the season. And then I said that Ammo's shots started declining possibly because others (wallace and okafor) were making shots at a much higher clip. I wasn't addressing okafor's status as a high draft pick. Just pointing out that Ammo's shooting woes came at the expense of more shot attempts for better options on the team. Heck, we don't have to limit this to wallace and okafor. Every other player on the bobcats shot better from the field than Ammo (that had the minimum shot attempts to qualify anyways).


And if you really want to figure out why Ammo has been so bad in the pros, I think the key is the home/away stats. Players are supposed to shoot better at home, and Ammo has been WAAAAAY better on the road. Very strange.

deathchina
07-06-2007, 10:03 AM
"For myself, I predicted from the get go that he would struggle quite a lot in his first year because so much of his dominance at the college level had to do with size mismatches which don't exist in the NBA."

CDC makes a good point. There is plenty of defense being played in the NBA, and long armed swingmen that can check him effectively are on almost every team.

I think ammo's defensive issues are also hindering his offensive efficiency. NBA teams like to isolate bad defenders sometimes 6 or 7 straight times down the court. In a couple games I've watched, the other team has employed the "have whoever Ammo is guarding shoot" offensive strategy. I bet Ammo is expending a LOT more energy on D than he ever had to at GU.

GonzagaLove
07-06-2007, 07:48 PM
Well said Abe.