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View Full Version : New Season, Same Story.... so far



Zag-Coug
11-11-2011, 08:13 PM
I know, I know, it's the first half of the first game of the season. However, it's disheartening that we can't keep EWU off of the 3-pt line so far, and are letting yet another team shoot 40-plus percent from three. This game will no doubt turn into a blowout in the second half, as EWU is in huge foul trouble, but It'd be nice to see us put the clamps on.

Ezag
11-11-2011, 08:33 PM
Rears its ugly head....

Therunner
11-11-2011, 08:39 PM
We're a mess...EWU deserves this win.

Our Coaching sucks and our players aren't getting it done.

allnet59
11-11-2011, 08:46 PM
Same old stuff

xjzico
11-11-2011, 08:57 PM
So how bad does it have to get? Year in year out, does not matter who it is.

allnet59
11-11-2011, 08:58 PM
This is seriously a problem not guarding the three.

Stache
11-11-2011, 08:59 PM
Ahhh. Defense? 4 on 5 offense. Great kid. Real hustle. No offense. And out manned. No 3 man again.

allnet59
11-11-2011, 09:04 PM
Stache. How true unfortunately the truth.

xjzico
11-11-2011, 09:09 PM
Do I really need to watch the games anymore. If history is any indicator you know how this season is going to unfold. Couple nice wins - lay some eggs - some bench guy steps to spur the push to respectability - WCC team trips over themselves - second round NCAA exit - Monninghoff, Keita, Olynyk transfer out at the end of the year.

tobizag
11-11-2011, 09:18 PM
Do I really need to watch the games anymore. If history is any indicator you know how this season is going to unfold. Couple nice wins - lay some eggs - some bench guy steps to spur the push to respectability - WCC team trips over themselves - second round NCAA exit - Monninghoff, Keita, Olynyk transfer out at the end of the year.

i'm trying really hard to find a reason to disagree...

ZagLawGrad
11-11-2011, 09:21 PM
It's way early, but darn hard so far to see how this team has improved over last year's version.

hooter73
11-11-2011, 09:21 PM
Yeah for 4 v 5 ball for the third year in a row.

where is our offense? anyone?

Dackau and Fox are definitely the bright spot. Holy crap was it nice listening to them while watching the ugly.

btzag
11-11-2011, 09:21 PM
Ahhh. Defense? 4 on 5 offense. Great kid. Real hustle. No offense. And out manned. No 3 man again.

And how shocking is it that he took as many shots as Dower and Bell COMBINED!

ZagLawGrad
11-11-2011, 09:22 PM
Yeah for 4 v 5 ball for the third year in a row.

where is our offense? anyone?

It sure wasn't with GBJ.. Potential, but looks like it will be a ways off for him.

TacomaZAG
11-11-2011, 09:24 PM
but a win. I don't understand why Hart started, and definitely don't understand the major minutes he played tonight. I like Hart in a limited, defensive role, but if he plays major minutes this year we are in big trouble. Every minute he plays is a minute lost in the maturation of GBJ and the other young guys. Our young guards need minutes to get better, and with Hart out there it's worse on offense than last year with this year's version of 4 on 5.

I thought Pangos played well, Stocks not so much.

Oh yeah, we still can't defend the three. That just gets so old, and frustrating.

Go ZAGS

hooter73
11-11-2011, 09:27 PM
We have got to have a guard that wants to score. Bell wants it but too much if you know what I mean. Boy am I waiting for Landry to be eligible and Bell to get in a groove.

xjzico
11-11-2011, 09:29 PM
Three point defense isn't old at this point - it's embarrassing.

Justify your salaries staff - how many times do you have to be buried at the end of the day before you decide to do something about it? Or are you unable?

Zag-Coug
11-11-2011, 09:30 PM
Yeah, I mean props to EWU, they played hard. I watched them in person a few times last year, and they definitely have a few guards that are pretty darn good. What I don't get is why the hell you wouldn't get the only guys that can hurt you off of the three point line?

It's the first game of the year, and I understand turnovers, poor shooting, weak chemistry. But we ought to be able to guard, especially against a team like EWU, that is so terribly weak inside. We should have been in their shooters grilles all night long, but eh not so much. At least it's early and there's still hope :)

izzjess
11-11-2011, 09:34 PM
im sick of the 4 on five offence....where the heck was the hoff..a perfect 3 man and no minuts at all...oh well lets just hope it was only for this game...

awberke
11-11-2011, 09:35 PM
Guys just try and realize what a rollercoaster college bb can be. One minute you're riding high off a solid win, the next minute you're tying a rope to the rafters.

It was the first game, we got a win. Bad games happen, better they happen in the beginning of the season then the end.

It will get better, i promise.

(That 3-pt defense is seriously troubling, if i ever get an opportunity to ask few a question, it will be "do you know how to defend the perimeter?")

ZagHouse
11-11-2011, 09:35 PM
I can only speculate, but no Mathis and Spangler--Battling some type of injury?

xjzico
11-11-2011, 09:36 PM
Yeah, I mean props to EWU, they played hard. I watched them in person a few times last year, and they definitely have a few guards that are pretty darn good. What I don't get is why the hell you wouldn't get the only guys that can hurt you off of the three point line?

It's the first game of the year, and I understand turnovers, poor shooting, weak chemistry. But we ought to be able to guard, especially against a team like EWU, that is so terribly weak inside. We should have been in their shooters grilles all night long, but eh not so much. At least it's early and there's still hope :)
The old excuse was that we prioritize offense - of course we start Mike Hart tonight. At this point the conclusion is the brain trust is incapable in this area. No one can argue about what is our Achilles heal. It's been about five years now.

Baldwinzag
11-11-2011, 09:37 PM
im sick of the 4 on five offence....where the heck was the hoff..a perfect 3 man and no minuts at all...oh well lets just hope it was only for this game...

When Hart is getting 30 mins a game at the "3", not many minutes to go around for Hoff...

Bulldog
11-11-2011, 09:37 PM
Mike Hart, plays almost the entire game??????????????????

duper
11-11-2011, 09:38 PM
Do I really need to watch the games anymore. If history is any indicator you know how this season is going to unfold. Couple nice wins - lay some eggs - some bench guy steps to spur the push to respectability - WCC team trips over themselves - second round NCAA exit - Monninghoff, Keita, Olynyk transfer out at the end of the year.

You forgot to mention that before the season there would be Final Four predictions. Oh, and this season...claims that we lost recruits because 4 star guys are afraid to come to GU because they will never get to play... because we have 10 guys who could start almost anywhere. :vomit-smiley-007:

xjzico
11-11-2011, 09:38 PM
Guys just try and realize what a rollercoaster college bb can be. One minute you're riding high off a solid win, the next minute you're tying a rope to the rafters.

It was the first game, we got a win. Bad games happen, better they happen in the beginning of the season then the end.

It will get better, i promise.

(That 3-pt defense is seriously troubling, if i ever get an opportunity to ask few a question, it will be "do you know how to defend the perimeter?")Yet our bad games share a single common element. They happen early in the year, middle, and in the end when it matters the most. This is an established pattern. If Zags don't know this, it's obvious almost every team they play does.

TheBunnieRancher
11-11-2011, 09:47 PM
4 on 5 offense would have been nice. We were so out of sync much of the time it was 1 on 5 or 2 on 5. Good thing we played EWU first. The team has a couple of days to wake up before we face a better 3 point shooting team.

tobizag
11-11-2011, 09:47 PM
Mike Hart, plays almost the entire game??????????????????

so few promises bell that if he comes to spokane he'll start. during practices bell runs with the starters. before the game tonight, it is announced that he will indeed start. so of course mike hart starts, and bell rides the pine to open the game.

i realize he looked passive in the exhibition games, and i realize tonight wasn't a whole lot better. but when you tell someone they will start and then you roll out there with a starting spot and 30 mins for a walk on who presents no offensive threat....isn't that just playing with bell's mind? wtf? and what are you hoping to learn about hart in the game? you know what you have in him. 13 spotty mins for your biggest recruit, an espn top100 player, is not giving yourself a chance to see what the kid has.

Therunner
11-11-2011, 09:50 PM
50 Minutes of playing time combined b/w Mike Hart & David Stockton = 4 points.

sonuvazag
11-11-2011, 10:00 PM
It felt to me like Hart played 50 minutes by himself.

I agree with everyone else who is questioning the brain trust. Something is overcomplicated about this.

Get the best players on the floor and let them learn how to play with each other.

04ZagFan
11-11-2011, 10:01 PM
Consider me in panic mode already.... I know a lot of guys over 40 at my gym who would score 30 against this gonzaga D...

And can someone explain why Few stuck with Hart? I've been a Hart supporter but he was bad all around tonight. Strange that Few didn't think he had a better option. His defense wasn't all that great either.

Ekrub
11-11-2011, 10:02 PM
I've seen uglier wins against worse teams from better zags team later in the season. One game at a time :)

Therunner
11-11-2011, 10:03 PM
David Stockton
Marquise Carter
Mike Hart
Elias Harris
Rob Sacre

This lineup played more than 15 mins together & started both halves, not to mention Mike Hart's 30 mins on the court.

What did he do besides look like he was hustling?

Does something seem odd in this lineup?

This "Top-25" starting backcourt consists of two walk-ons--fine with that--yet whom are both unable to put the ball in the bucket or require any sort of defense.

CDC84
11-11-2011, 10:07 PM
The other issue with Hart is that he wasn't effective defensively tonight.

Interesting to note that Pangos was in the game throughout crunch time.

cggonzaga
11-11-2011, 10:13 PM
The other issue with Hart is that he wasn't effective defensively tonight

The truth is his on the ball defense has never been that great. He always excelled defensively away from the ball, thus all the offensive foul calls.

ZagsGoZags
11-11-2011, 10:18 PM
somebody said this:

I like Hart in a limited, defensive role, but if he plays major minutes this year we are in big trouble. Every minute he plays is a minute lost in the maturation of GBJ and the other young guys. Our young guards need minutes to get better, and with Hart out there it's worse on offense than last year with this year's version of 4 on 5.


I agree
it will be good to see Landry back
and not a single minute for Spangler?
makes me wonder if it is a discipline thing

roxdoc
11-11-2011, 10:44 PM
Starting line up of both halfs really gave us 3 on 5 on O (and I'm not talking about Bell). Most importantly it just kept us from building any offensive rhythm. If coach wants to continue his patented 3-pt D we are going to need all the O we can muster.

Idea: maybe we just didn't want to give away any offensive secrets to WSU.

Baseline
11-11-2011, 10:48 PM
We don't dominate the boards. No one really did any slashing for layups! We were supposed to finally have a team of shooters? We shoot like the ball is a brick, but no Hoff? Don't remember Dower doing anything of note, where did he go during the game. Bell looked like a dear in the headlights after 3 games, he is going to take a while to add real value.

What I saw was painful tonight. I hope its an aboration and maybe EW was that good. If this is the real time we will be very lucky to finish 3rd in the conference. Hope I have to eat my words, would love to be wrong.

Pangos will be a star!

timgozags
11-11-2011, 10:49 PM
Really dumb move by Mark Fews to give Mike Hart that much minutes.
It made 4 other guys worked harder on offend
We still couldn't defend well
Send a bad message for the bench that they don't get much minutes by a guy that can't score, can't shoot free throw and not even defending well.
Bad for future recruitment, will see more transfer end of this year if this doesn't change.

I have no problem with MH, he is working hard but basketball is not only about hard working, it needs skill and bb iq.

awberke
11-11-2011, 11:12 PM
Yet our bad games share a single common element. They happen early in the year, middle, and in the end when it matters the most. This is an established pattern. If Zags don't know this, it's obvious almost every team they play does.

Fine. Doom and gloom...DOOM AND GLOOM!!!!!

xjzico
11-11-2011, 11:21 PM
Fine. Doom and gloom...DOOM AND GLOOM!!!!!Sycophant.

ZagFanInNC
11-12-2011, 12:46 AM
Do I really need to watch the games anymore. If history is any indicator you know how this season is going to unfold. Couple nice wins - lay some eggs - some bench guy steps to spur the push to respectability - WCC team trips over themselves - second round NCAA exit - Monninghoff, Keita, Olynyk transfer out at the end of the year.

But according to some of the fan base as long as we win the WCC it will all be okay:adored:

A pretty aggrivating opening game in just about every way... except we won, that was good.

ZagFanInNC
11-12-2011, 12:51 AM
I've seen uglier wins against worse teams from better zags team later in the season. One game at a time :)

Can you run that by me one more time... JK. Hopefully this game will be an aboration.

GUnawinit
11-12-2011, 01:23 AM
as GU recruits as they do, just enough too win..within in the WCC I agree!

(In my mind) "Length" and a high scoring PG's wins in the NCAA.

Coach Few and company keeps us all hanging! Can anyone on this board "truly" tell me with D. Stockton running the point gives GU chance to win it all....

Gary Bell yes, although he's struggled in a couple games..look at this young man...he looks a lot like the guy at the point from teams we lose too! ( I like Gary)

GU, recruits athletes just close enough to keep US wishing for more.

I LOVE GU basketball, but the mystic has long past us, we either need to recruit to win it all...or continue as is...Sarbuagh(sp) from Prep?, that will when you a championship....?

It appears to be as is, remember the Memphis team....that came to visit in the arena...Length, speed....scoring...Hmmmm..that's what wins in the new era!!!

I love a certain NFL football that's broken my heart for years, prepare for GU to do the same. You're either a true top 5 team and contend, or it's all on paper. (Meaning oh, the Zags are in the top twenty five each year..on paper)

Why can't we recruit to WIN, as mentioned, the OLD days just being there and winning are over! (Truly nice memories)

The University has a great gig, keeps the average guy dreaming they'll see a game at the MAC, at the not so average guy that loves GU paying a fortune to do the same.

And the end result, the majority watching at the bar...a first round win..,and losing (2nd rd) because of the above described!!!!

xjzico
11-12-2011, 01:53 AM
It appears to be as is, remember the Memphis team....that came to visit in the arena...Length, speed....scoring...Hmmmm..that's what wins in the new era!Except for that team named Butler.

GUnawinit
11-12-2011, 02:15 AM
Butler, is a perfect example (the kid that went to the Jazz, Lenght and the their H.S. PG)....and certainly removed the GU thunder...kind'a embrassing,

meaning they accomplished in five years what GU hasn't accomplished and won't with the current recruiting mindset.

But, please look at there stating five and first two off the bench...

They took GU model...and ended up playing for it twice...whom is that on...

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-12-2011, 03:21 AM
If you're going to sacrifice offense to get better defenders on the floor, PLAY SOME DEFENSE!!!!!

If you're going to give up fifteen three-pointers a night, you might as well put your best offensive lineup on the floor and try to win the 94-89 shootout.

NotoriousZ
11-12-2011, 04:43 AM
Ugly win, as about as ugly as it gets.

I'll take the win. This will get better.

tobizag
11-12-2011, 08:22 AM
But according to some of the fan base as long as we win the WCC it will all be okay

that type of performance, including by the coaches, will not win the wcc.

i remember about 3 seasons ago saying something on this board along the lines of "i'm tired of talking about how we ALWAYS have guys go off from 3 against us."

f***ing deja vu.

:vomit-smiley-007:

bostonzagfan
11-12-2011, 09:35 AM
3 pt defense issue - HARD SHOWS FROM BIG MEN WAY PAST THE 3 PT LINE!

Why are big men showing so hard when their man sets an on-ball screen 25 feet from the hoop?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/937269-gonzagas-win-over-eastern-washington-by-the-numbers

awberke
11-12-2011, 05:56 PM
Sycophant.

Sesquipedalian.

04ZagFan
11-12-2011, 06:00 PM
3 pt defense issue - HARD SHOWS FROM BIG MEN WAY PAST THE 3 PT LINE!

Why are big men showing so hard when their man sets an on-ball screen 25 feet from the hoop?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/937269-gonzagas-win-over-eastern-washington-by-the-numbers

God, every time an opposing player crossed the 3 point line, all of our perimeter defenders just collapse.... Leaving shooters wide open. I guess we don't trust our bigs to defend at all?!?

To me, the defense seems so fixable, but apparently our coaching staff just can't figure it out. What has Donny Daniels done....? I've seen A LOT of unimproved play since Billy and Leon left....

bostonzagfan
11-12-2011, 08:45 PM
God, every time an opposing player crossed the 3 point line, all of our perimeter defenders just collapse.... Leaving shooters wide open. I guess we don't trust our bigs to defend at all?!?

To me, the defense seems so fixable, but apparently our coaching staff just can't figure it out. What has Donny Daniels done....? I've seen A LOT of unimproved play since Billy and Leon left....

Maybe its a trick... they figured out how to defend the three but didnt want to show it before the WSU game... yea, im gonna keep telling myself that.

MDABE80
11-12-2011, 08:57 PM
We don't dominate the boards. No one really did any slashing for layups! We were supposed to finally have a team of shooters? We shoot like the ball is a brick, but no Hoff? Don't remember Dower doing anything of note, where did he go during the game. Bell looked like a dear in the headlights after 3 games, he is going to take a while to add real value.

What I saw was painful tonight. I hope its an aboration and maybe EW was that good. If this is the real time we will be very lucky to finish 3rd in the conference. Hope I have to eat my words, would love to be wrong.

Pangos will be a star!

Didn't we win the boards 50-29?

UberZagFan
11-12-2011, 11:00 PM
Abe, please don't point out the actual facts. It really has a way to disrupt a lot of posters' arguments.

77Zag
11-13-2011, 07:23 AM
Abe, please don't point out the actual facts. It really has a way to disrupt a lot of posters' arguments.

+1