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View Full Version : Just noticed an interesting, albeit consistent, statistic...



Therunner
11-08-2011, 07:34 AM
while reviewing our past seasons' Tournament successes.

DID YOU KNOW?
(also posted in another thread)

In our last FOUR NCAA Tournament games(and losses), our opponents have hit double-digit 3's against us???

---Breakdown---

'08 - Davidson: 12-26 3pt
'09 - N. Carolina: 11-19 3pt
'10 - Syracuse: 12-25 3pt
'11 - Brigham U: 14-28 3pt

3 things:

1.) Our 3pt defense, or lack thereof, has already been dissected by the board, yet didn't realize we couldn't stop it in the NCAA's either, when it obviously counts the most. That's 4 years IN A ROW! This is more than just an unlucky trend. Its become a cancer.

2.) Opponents not only make a lot of 3's, they also ATTEMPT a lot of 3's against us. Why? We lost 80% of our games last season due to double-digit 3's/50% from perimeter as well. Gross.

3.) How does it change, if at all, this season? Will we change our woeful ways and defend the 3pt line for once or 'play the law of averages' as Coach Few always eludes to...

If not, the moment we play even a decent perimeter shooting team in the Tourney...WE'RE GONNA LOSE.

We don't need any more results, stats, or losses to confirm that hypothesis....

gozagswoohoo
11-08-2011, 07:48 AM
Nice, informative post. Good job on the stat breakdown, it is interesting to see.



And yes, it is gross. That's one of the only things that can be really frustrating about Coach Few. He does 95% of things SUPERBLY, and can fix so many things 'in game'....except for 3 point shooting defense (IMO, at least).


It is his 'kryptonite', if you will.

I think our guys will be a little quicker this season though, and our perimeter D will be better, just based on pre-season info. I HOPE, at least!! Just think....stop 3-4 of those three's from going in, and the whole spectrum of the game changes.

gamagin
11-08-2011, 07:58 AM
Without benefit of any science here, I think if we shoot a doable 70-80% underneath (stuffs, tip ins, tip backs, lay ins, etc., that bigs can effect) and our opponents shoot a fairly hot 35-40% up top, we still can win.

Throw in just a slightly better guarding situation, or double the hot hand, and we win. It would also force our opponents to try and stop us underneath instead of us concentrating on stopping them up top because up top isn't enough to beat us.

But, as you note, as long as we present (or appear to present) little to no defense versus the trey, everyone will attempt to beat us there.

I see this more as an adjustment we have failed to make. Or, it's a flaw. Or a weakness. Or it's a trade-off our coaches have decided is worth taking because our strengths elsewhere can and should make up the difference. But in some cases, this hasn't happened. I don't know. It makes me wonder how we rebounded and what our percentage was underneath before declaring the three our key problem.

Given how we collapse defensively and appear to not get in to some teams grills, I'd suggest Few et al know exactly what they are doing but it hasn't worked for us against better teams.

In other words, I think it's definitely worth considering. BUT, our bigs, imo, need to play big and dominate big if we ever hope to advance beyond our current level, which is nothing to sneeze at.

CDC84
11-08-2011, 08:03 AM
When Gonzaga has the frontcourt that they do, there is really no reason to allow teams to shoot 36.9% from 3 point land against them. There is rim protection in case anyone gets beat off the bounce, and most players these days lack mid range games on offense.

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-08-2011, 08:10 AM
I suspect that we're going to get clobbered from the three-point line during the early part of the season, because two freshmen and an undersized sophomore are going to get a lot of minutes at the 1 and 2 spots. Three-point defense is often about rotation and communication. We're going to give up some bad nights while the underclassmen learn their roles. However, I think that Pangos and Bell are quick enough and smart enough to be very good defenders once they learn their roles and get comfortable playing with each other.

04ZagFan
11-08-2011, 08:13 AM
Without benefit of any science here, I think if we shoot a doable 70-80% underneath (stuffs, tip ins, tip backs, lay ins, etc., that bigs can effect) and our opponents shoot a fairly hot 35-40% up top, we still can win.

Throw in just a slightly better guarding situation, or double the hot hand, and we win. It would also force our opponents to try and stop us underneath instead of us concentrating on stopping them up top because up top isn't enough to beat us.

But, as you note, as long as we present (or appear to present) little to no defense versus the trey, everyone will attempt to beat us there.

I see this more as an adjustment we have failed to make. Or, it's a flaw. Or a weakness. Or it's a trade-off our coaches have decided is worth taking because our strengths elsewhere can and should make up the difference. But in some cases, this hasn't happened. I don't know. It makes me wonder how we rebounded and what our percentage was underneath before declaring the three our key problem.

Given how we collapse defensively and appear to not get in to some teams grills, I'd suggest Few et al know exactly what they are doing but it hasn't worked for us against better teams.

In other words, I think it's definitely worth considering. BUT, our bigs, imo, need to play big and dominate big if we ever hope to advance beyond our current level, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Except there is no correlation between having a great inside game, thus being ok with giving up a lot of three point shots....None.

77Zag
11-08-2011, 08:13 AM
Totally agree on our 3 pt D -- needs much work,
however, let's keep in mind
Vs Davidson - Curry was 8-10 from 3 - total of 40PTS
Vs BYU - The Jimmer was 7-12 from 3 - total of 34PTS

These were not the typical ordinary players -- probably two the best shooters in college hoops in many years.

Therunner
11-08-2011, 08:20 AM
When Gonzaga has the frontcourt that they do, there is really no reason to allow teams to shoot 36.9% from 3 point land against them. There is rim protection in case anyone gets beat off the bounce, and most players these days lack mid range games on offense.


Without benefit of any science here, I think if we shoot a doable 70-80% underneath (stuffs, tip ins, tip backs, lay ins, etc., that bigs can effect) and our opponents shoot a fairly hot 35-40% up top, we still can win.

Both good posts, guys.

In addition, opponents are actually shooting b/w 48-60% from 3pt in our losses.

Heck, just take a peek at our regular season losses last year, before the Tourney:

Kansas St: 12-26 3pt
Illinois: 12-23 3pt
Wash St: 11-21 3pt
Notre Dame: 11-20 3pt

Pretty crazy to see it on paper, isn't it? Its not just in the NCAA Tourney but in nearly every loss. Opponents averaging over 50% from 3pt AND double-digit makes.

Also, I understand teams can get "hot" from 3pt, yet these are season-highs for some of these teams above. Inexcusable.

Will it be more of the same this season? Will it improve?

Even in the losses vs USF, SMC, SCU, they hit at least 8 3's with a 40% percentage.

gamagin
11-08-2011, 08:21 AM
Except there is no correlation between having a great inside game, thus being ok with giving up a lot of three point shots....None.

so do we. The WCC is rife with 3 point gunners (or at least one per team that has managed to challenge or scare us).

I posit this is because they can't beat us at our strengths. Many have come close to beating us at the three (portland comes to mind) but in the end, we beat them by playing our game.

Or, in the dance, we lose by not playing our game (strength) better than they play theirs.

Make sense ?

04ZagFan
11-08-2011, 08:22 AM
Totally agree on our 3 pt D -- needs much work,
however, let's keep in mind
Vs Davidson - Curry was 8-10 from 3 - total of 40PTS
Vs BYU - The Jimmer was 7-12 from 3 - total of 34PTS

These were not the typical ordinary players -- probably two the best shooters in college hoops in many years.

Yup. As bad as our 3 point D is (and it's terrible) I feel like we've just been unlucky at times.. Especially this past season... Notably the Illinois and WSU games last season. They were unrealistically hot from deep, and players like Tisdale for Illinois and Patrick Simon for WSU went off, which was very unlike them.

zagfan24
11-08-2011, 08:24 AM
...the guards tend to help too much down low. This, coupled with slow rotation back to the perimeter, means that "2nd pass" (post to guard to another guard/wing) gets a wide open look against the Zags. Good teams (i.e., the kind you face in the NCAA tournament) hit those open looks more often than not. This year's team is loaded with experienced bigs who should be fine defensively without extra help.

Additionally, I maintain that waiting until a player hits a shot or two before closing out on him defensively will doom you against top-level competition. Once guys like Curry, Jimmer, etc. get hot...defense can't do much. The best defenders on Morrison weren't necessarily the quickest to close out, they were the ones too physical (e.g. Belser) to ever let him get any space.

Therunner
11-08-2011, 08:32 AM
They were unrealistically hot from deep, and players like Tisdale for Illinois and Patrick Simon for WSU went off, which was very unlike them.

unlucky or just lack of preparation.

Stephen Rodgers & Noah Hartsock for BYU too...

Point is, it seems like there are always players whom don't usually shoot 3's, let alone make them, knock down 'unexplained' 3's -- vs Gonzaga.

Maybe we should bring in a "consultant" just as College Football teams do for a few weeks of practice. Elite FB programs bring in consultants for Special Teams and such all the time...

Therunner
11-08-2011, 08:37 AM
...the guards tend to help too much down low. This, coupled with slow rotation back to the perimeter, means that "2nd pass" (post to guard to another guard/wing) gets a wide open look against the Zags.

You are right and its being scouted by the opposition, hence the 25+ 3's attempted vs good teams.

I'm all in favor of siding with "law of averages" as Coach Few speaks to; however, the trend is good-shooting teams are making a higher % from 3pt than inside the perimeter. The elite teams have elite shooters and in this day and age, its a "shooting man's game". Shooting has improved at all positions and we need to adapt.

Just as the NFL is ever-changing and becoming a passers' league with the talent level increasing at QB and faster players, the same applies to the game of basketball. Kids are better shooters overall nowadays...it shows every time we play a Top-25 type team. We must adjust.

gamagin
11-08-2011, 09:05 AM
that mice, fed nothing but ceiling plaster, tended to get cancer over time. The conclusion: ceiling plaster, when eaten in large amounts, causes cancer.

Then the questions started. Is it the ceiling plaster or the lack of other things in the mices' diet that caused the cancer ? Who knows with certainty ? The argument continues to this day.

Same with the 3 pt argument. Or inside out versus outside in.

I think Few's philosophy of winning is what we see play out on the court. Like it or not. How well it works with the talent on hand, year to year, how well our Zags execute the plan, is where all this "science" enters the fray in the form of stats.

A stat, standing alone, all by itself as if nothing else had to do with it, is just so much ceiling plaster. Imo.

rennis
11-08-2011, 09:13 AM
Our strength in this current era of GU hoops in in the paint. Thus teams scout us and intend to beat us from the perimiter. It's not rocket science.

It's the opposite problem we had 7-8 years ago, when we could hang with anyone on the perimeter, but low-post scorers/defenders were frequenly overmatched. (Think Michigan State in 2001.)

It's the cycle of life in college hoops.

I just hope we "catch some magic" one of these years and get all the right ingredients in place for a Final Four run. It's possible to recruit and retain the right mix of players to be both dominant in the paint and have good perimter D, just a lot harder to do at a program of this size vs. some of the perrenial top 25ers in the BCS conferences.

roxdoc
11-08-2011, 09:17 AM
Its the $64 question.....will the coaches change the defensive scheme or will it be the same old stubborn story.

gamagin: we might win if we hold them to 35%, but we loose when we "hold them" to 50%. This day and age all good teams have one ore more people who can do 50% if you don't have the correct scheme to stop them (early and often).

We all tend to get angry with this player or that when we se them racing back out to toward the perimeter in a futile attempt at defense. Really not their fault - just doing what their told.

tobizag
11-08-2011, 09:46 AM
take a look at this thread from the early part of last season:

http://guboards.spokesmanreview.com/showthread.php?t=31381&highlight=tobizag

gamagin
11-08-2011, 10:24 AM
gamagin: we might win if we hold them to 35%, but we loose when we "hold them" to 50%. This day and age all good teams have one ore more people who can do 50% if you don't have the correct scheme to stop them (early and often).

how far do I (can I, will I) pull you out of your game until you are now trying to beat me at my game ? Which is exactly what I am trying to get you to do so I can then, perhaps, beat you.

It's the essence of every competition.

When I see RS at the top of the key, I believe we have been pulled out of our game into theirs, for that moment and play.

And underneath, I see DS/KP, guarding their big. Are they going to kick it out or pass it underneath ?

Would they do that all day if they could, or count on the three ? Which situation would you prefer we create ?

I think Rennis said it best above in post #15.

coolhandzag
11-08-2011, 10:50 AM
Please expect a porous parameter defense this year.

JPtheBeasta
11-08-2011, 11:20 AM
***Rhetorical question alert***

If you were gameplanning against the Zags, how would you go about trying to beat them?

This 3-point thing can't be a secret to opposing teams. Our perimeter defensive philosophy needs a change or a tweak, IMO. Yes, we were beaten by some really good players over the years, and that's part of the game, but you have to learn how to stifle them if you expect to increase your success. You have to beat the best to be the best, so they say, and we can't expect every team to have mediocre guard play in the tournament.

To be fair, one could argue that we wouldn't have had the success we have had without the current philosophy on defense. I hope we can keep more players around until they are upper classmen, which should help the continuity on defense and lead to more efficient execution of the gameplans this year.

Baldwinzag
11-08-2011, 11:34 AM
***Rhetorical question alert***

If you were gameplanning against the Zags, how would you go about trying to beat them?


WSU will be w/o starting PF, Abe Lodwick, next Monday due to a recent foot injury in practice. The only post-presence the Cougs will feature is Brock Motum, a 6'9, 225lb softie who has good post moves but little rebounding skills. They have a very raw JUCO transfer in D.J. Shelton and another 6'10" Senior who has played a handful of mins the pat 3 yrs.

Bottom line, WSU is going to spread the floor, force our bigs to chase their 4-guard lineup, and search for open 3pt shots. They have very good shooters in Mike Ladd, Reggie Moore, Faisel Aden, & Devonte Lacy. Marcus Capers, a 6'5" athletic guard just might start at PF against us. No joke. He's a tough player and could be their best rebounder come Monday.

They are going to launch 3's, run in transition, and shoot more 3's to give them a chance to score and rebound the misses.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see them attempt 25+ 3's and force the dribble-drive with Moore vs Stocks/Pangos. I expect 5-10 passes in the half-court until we give up the open 3 or a drive 'n kick-out led by Lacy, Moore, & Aden. Our bigs should protect them rim just fine, but how will we protect the perimeter?

We know what they are going to do -- we must do our best to defend it.

If they go 11-20 from 3pt again, it might be a long night at home.

229SintoZag
11-08-2011, 11:52 AM
If Butler can play suffocating defense with their personnel, so can we.
Does anyone really think that if Brad Stevens coached the same exact players we have, we would be nearly as poor defending the perimeter as we are and have been? Me neither.

In my humble opinion there are no excuses left for this staff when it comes to perimeter defense. We have the personnel now. We have a great cast of guards. Let's stop making excuses and start making it happen.

I expect a much, much improved perimeter defensive team this year and I will be very disappointed if I don't see it happen.

Zagsker
11-08-2011, 12:00 PM
Yup. As bad as our 3 point D is (and it's terrible) I feel like we've just been unlucky at times.. Especially this past season... Notably the Illinois and WSU games last season. They were unrealistically hot from deep, and players like Tisdale for Illinois and Patrick Simon for WSU went off, which was very unlike them.

the problem is, more often than not..every team becomes "unrealistically hot from deep" against us

CaliforniaZaggin'
11-08-2011, 12:12 PM
And now the Zags are without our two best perimeter defenders from last season in Gray and Goodson...

rennis
11-08-2011, 12:16 PM
The difference between GU and Butler though is also on offense. We would have to slow our offense down significantly to play the "style" of defense Butler plays.

I am just guessing here, but if you compared GU's stats to Butler's over the last ~4 seasons, I'd guess Gonzaga and its opponents attempt 25% more FGs than does Butler and its opponents.

It's not just on-ball defense, it's an entirely different way of playing basketball, for the entire 40 minutes of clock.

thickman1
11-08-2011, 12:17 PM
When Gonzaga has the frontcourt that they do, there is really no reason to allow teams to shoot 36.9% from 3 point land against them. There is rim protection in case anyone gets beat off the bounce, and most players these days lack mid range games on offense.

+1
this.

rennis
11-08-2011, 12:23 PM
^ which, in my opinion, worked for Butler and Brad Stevens recently precisely because their system works well with the right style of player and experience. They caught "that magic" I talked about above and it worked, and they made the FF. Amazing run.

By no means do I think the Butler system is going to get them into the FF or the Sweet Sixteen or even the big dance every year. No one would.

Which is why it's crazy to expect GU to have the right mix of players every year to do amazing things based on our system.

I love the way we play ball, even if it does make us vulnerable on the perimeter in some years more than others.

DADoZAG
11-08-2011, 01:20 PM
Bottom line, WSU is going to spread the floor, force our bigs to chase their 4-guard lineup, and search for open 3pt shots. They have very good shooters in Mike Ladd, Reggie Moore, Faisel Aden, & Devonte Lacy. Marcus Capers, a 6'5" athletic guard just might start at PF against us.



If they go 11-20 from 3pt again, it might be a long night at home.

I heard that Moore and Aden were hampered by injury, hammy and concussion I think, but I agree with you. It should be something like what the ZAGS saw in Colorado. Too bad we don’t know how that went.

I do think it’ll be a low point, right before the real point is made…

…a starter.

Go ZAGS!

04ZagFan
11-08-2011, 01:55 PM
WSU will be w/o starting PF, Abe Lodwick, next Monday due to a recent foot injury in practice. The only post-presence the Cougs will feature is Brock Motum, a 6'9, 225lb softie who has good post moves but little rebounding skills. They have a very raw JUCO transfer in D.J. Shelton and another 6'10" Senior who has played a handful of mins the pat 3 yrs.

Bottom line, WSU is going to spread the floor, force our bigs to chase their 4-guard lineup, and search for open 3pt shots. They have very good shooters in Mike Ladd, Reggie Moore, Faisel Aden, & Devonte Lacy. Marcus Capers, a 6'5" athletic guard just might start at PF against us. No joke. He's a tough player and could be their best rebounder come Monday.

They are going to launch 3's, run in transition, and shoot more 3's to give them a chance to score and rebound the misses.

I wouldn't be surprised in the least to see them attempt 25+ 3's and force the dribble-drive with Moore vs Stocks/Pangos. I expect 5-10 passes in the half-court until we give up the open 3 or a drive 'n kick-out led by Lacy, Moore, & Aden. Our bigs should protect them rim just fine, but how will we protect the perimeter?

We know what they are going to do -- we must do our best to defend it.

If they go 11-20 from 3pt again, it might be a long night at home.

That's the truth..

Shoot, we went into last season with a pretty big (not as big as this year) advantage down low, and look what they did? They'll try to do the same thing.

Baldwinzag
11-08-2011, 02:07 PM
That's the truth..

Shoot, we went into last season with a pretty big (not as big as this year) advantage down low, and look what they did? They'll try to do the same thing.

If we don't out rebound them by 10+, I'll be disappointed. No excuses.

Last year they had Klay Thompson, who was like defending a PG, SG, & SF all in one -- that kid a future NBA all-star, imo. His all-around game was something to admire - he had like 25 pts, 8 rebs, 7 assists, 6 steals vs us. He was fired up to get his first win vs GU.

Also, Dee Casto was very productive BIG for them. He was their primary rebounder, outside of do-it-all Thompson. He only played around 20 mins vs us last season(foul trouble), but he provided nice defense on the low block and still scored his points. Arguably, Casto will be a bigger loss for them, b/c they have enough talented guard to pick up Klay's production by committee.

It should be an interesting match-up. I'd say we have a very significant advantage up-front, while I feel they have better backcourt, at least right now. This is a terrific early test for our young gunnin' guards.

I think they get up early and hold the lead throughout the 1st half with good(and wide open) shots from the perimeter, yet we grind it out with our big boys, get their only height in foul trouble and pull away in the 2nd half...Sacre & Elias should have huge games.

vandalzag
11-08-2011, 02:08 PM
It has been a problem of the coaching staff failing to adapt to the current state of basketball. 10 years ago when the zags had 1 or 1.5 post players they needed to choke the lane and reduce the free trips to the basket(also to cover for lack of quickness at the guard positions). At that stage, GU was the abnormal team that could position 4 perimeter threats and bomb away. Most teams they played did not work that way, nor could they survive in a 3pt shooting contest with GU.

The last 5 years the offensive philosophy changed to the Phoenix Suns style of penetrate to the middle and kick out to the outside. By doing that and 1 ball reversal the Zags are easily exposed to open 3's. GU has since day 1 believed in over extending the weak side help. It starts with how they teach players off the ball defense and goes from there(you can see this if your kids have ever attended camp at GU). Watch games from the last 3-4 years and see how deep the weak side players end up. I would bet GU leads the league in last minute rushes (in vain) to an open shooter after a ball reversal or skip pass. Most other teams meet the offense at the 3 point line and take their chances with a 1 on 1 match up. You can't let teams bomb away 3's when your team can't match them. Ironically teams were able to pack the middle the last 2 years because GU could only put 1 shooter on the floor at any time and the PG was incapable doing the drive, draw, and dish needed to free up shooters on the outside.

The telling games are not when a Jimmer or Curry get hot, because no D will stop a player like that, rather it is when the number 4 option in the offense who averages 4 points a game goes off for 20 because he has been left wide open on numerous trips down the floor.

Psychozag
11-08-2011, 02:15 PM
Totally agree on our 3 pt D -- needs much work,
however, let's keep in mind
Vs Davidson - Curry was 8-10 from 3 - total of 40PTS
Vs BYU - The Jimmer was 7-12 from 3 - total of 34PTS

These were not the typical ordinary players -- probably two the best shooters in college hoops in many years.

Ya, but Fredette was 3 of 15 against Florida, and Curry was 4-16 against Kansas from 3 point land, both losses. They are great players, which is exactly why your game plan needs to be no open 3 point shots. Teams that move on in the tournament prove that they can play defense. See Butler games as a reference point. GU will not get to a Final Four until we play solid defense, especially of the three point line.

Vanzagger
11-08-2011, 03:44 PM
their right spot. Bouldin(Gray,Quise....take your pick) at the 3 and Pendo at the 4 was a bad,bad,bad idea.


Get bigger

Coug Tracks
11-08-2011, 04:09 PM
If we don't out rebound them by 10+, I'll be disappointed. No excuses.

Last year they had Klay Thompson, who was like defending a PG, SG, & SF all in one -- that kid a future NBA all-star, imo. His all-around game was something to admire - he had like 25 pts, 8 rebs, 7 assists, 6 steals vs us. He was fired up to get his first win vs GU.

Also, Dee Casto was very productive BIG for them. He was their primary rebounder, outside of do-it-all Thompson. He only played around 20 mins vs us last season(foul trouble), but he provided nice defense on the low block and still scored his points. Arguably, Casto will be a bigger loss for them, b/c they have enough talented guard to pick up Klay's production by committee.

It should be an interesting match-up. I'd say we have a very significant advantage up-front, while I feel they have better backcourt, at least right now. This is a terrific early test for our young gunnin' guards.

I think they get up early and hold the lead throughout the 1st half with good(and wide open) shots from the perimeter, yet we grind it out with our big boys, get their only height in foul trouble and pull away in the 2nd half...Sacre & Elias should have huge games.Bone really can't replace the production of Thompson & Casto this year. However, I watched the highlights of last years game again and realized the score was 19-6 before Thompson scored a point last year. On the subject of GU defending the 3 WSU was 7-14 excluding Thompson in that game.

The gap between the bigs though is huge!

WanderingZag
11-09-2011, 12:31 AM
This does not surprise me at all. As the OP pointed out, we seem to lose to a team each year in the tourney that that has a hot-shooting night from the outside, and it generally seems we can't defend it too well or adjust.

bostonzagfan
11-09-2011, 05:04 AM
few make like to play the law of averages, and thats all well and good when the threes are contested. but the law of averages doesn't favor us when the threes are open, because that average is pretty damn high.

Baldwinzag
11-09-2011, 06:58 AM
Be forewarned...St. Mary's, and perhaps...USF, SCU, LMU, BYU all have the horses to compete with Gonzaga, with its young, unproven, back court.

While the Zags are my 2nd favorite team to watch in the wcc, I don't believe they have the firepower to continue thieir string of dominance. Best of luck and may the BEST team(s) represent the WCC conference.

:starwars:

Underestimating the young zags, you are. Yes, hmmm.

Who Dat
11-09-2011, 07:22 AM
The Zags over help on defense. If the help-side defenders FAKE help to slow driving offensive players they will be better able to close out on three point shooters. It will just make them that half or full step fast to not give those open looks. If you look at any film from last year we are slow closing out because we help too much on the drive, they kick out and SPLASH. Plus we have good shot blockers to help shore up any problems from those really good slashers. Goodson was really bad at this!

JPtheBeasta
11-09-2011, 11:09 AM
I'm really surprised after all these seasons, a heady Zag fan has finally observed the "code" to defeating the dogs.

This a fact that we have been bemoaning here for years. As per the inexperienced back court, we'll have to wait and see. If I recall SMC has its own issues back there as well, as Holt is still an unknown in a full-time role, is he not?

rennis
11-09-2011, 11:16 AM
IMHO our aggressive help defense is also partially a by-product of west coast refereeing. Few is in a constant battle to keep our bigs out of foul trouble, especially when they're younger and less experienced. Perhaps we'll see an improved perimeter D this year due to the maturity of our bigs...here's to hoping.

Regarding the foul issues, I sometimes see more ticky-tack fouls called in the paint by WCC and PACDozen refs in one game than I do in an entire 5 day tournament when I watch the Big East Tournament in mid-March. It's ridiculous. You HAVE to let bigs play aggressive to have balance in college bball. West Coast refs have not read this memo.

Help defense helps pinch off slashers and other threats to our foul-prone bigs. Leaving-open perimiter shooters. Again, going back to the fact that in this era of GU Hoops our post scorers are our strength, Few has been consciously committing copious resources to protecting them on D.

04ZagFan
11-09-2011, 01:36 PM
Coug fans can say what they want (and they will) but this game really is just about as big as it gets for them. Saw it last season in Pullman. They kicked our butts, and it was like they won the NCAA tournament.

They will be fired up Monday. They will come to play. The little school from Spokane shouldn't be getting all the attention. Certainly not over a PAC 12 school. They hate us for that reason. The beatings since the late 90s didn't make them like us any more. They've been competitive the last several years, beating us 3 out of the last 5. I just hope our guys play with a little more emotion this year. Last year, it was clearly just another "game" for us. Much like how the weaker WCC teams are able to beat us. We have a target on our backs. Our guys must realize this.. Not only in the WCC, but against weaker rivals like WSU.