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View Full Version : Zags #1 Mid Major Poll



EuroZag2010
10-31-2011, 11:56 PM
I am not sure how much this means but it's nice to be recongnized.


1. Gonzaga (21) 0-0 740 - West Coast
# 9. BYU (1) 0-0 461 - West Coast
11. St. Mary's 0-0 447 - West Coast
25. Santa Clara 0-0 78 - West Coast



Butler comes in at 2

http://www.collegeinsider.com/mmpoll/

Zag@LMU
11-01-2011, 12:18 AM
USF is more deserving of being ranked than SCU

zagzilla
11-01-2011, 06:46 AM
I'm surprised the A10 is not considered Mid Major for the purposes of this poll. Xavier would probably be #1, 2 or 3.

The A10 is probably worse top to bottom than the WCC, IMO.

ZZ

jazzdelmar
11-01-2011, 06:57 AM
damning with faint praise....

hooter73
11-01-2011, 06:58 AM
Im surprised that anyone in the WCC besides us and BYU got noticed. I wouldnt exactly call them a mid major yet even if they want to call themselves that. One or two trips to the NCAA does not make it. If it did SDU would be on the list too. Havent won their conference outright in well 11 years :), send next to no one on to the next level have crappy RPIs... hmmm.

Kiddwell
11-01-2011, 07:40 AM
Until the Zags consistently beat Memphis, they're the No. 1 mid-major in this fan's opinion.

:]

EuroZag2010
11-01-2011, 08:17 AM
Take it for what it is... its just a media Opinion. I doubt they see Memphis as a mid major. But Kid I agree the probably top 5 on that list but Memphis should be 1 if they were being ranked.

TheGonzagaFactor
11-01-2011, 09:14 AM
The A10 is probably worse top to bottom than the WCC, IMO.

ZZ

Not true at all. The A10 has Richmond, Xavier, and Temple. Some other years they have good teams from Dayton and St. Joes. Keep in mind the bottom half of the WCC is pathetic. The WCC has Gonzaga every year and rarely have another true tourney team. The WCC is a bad conference which looks better than it is because it has only had 8 teams and Gonzaga boosts the conference RPI to a reasonable level. Without GU's schedule every year, the WCC would be on par with the Big Sky in terms of RPI and other conference rankings.

The WCC is NOWHERE NEAR as good as the A10. Not even close.

EuroZag2010
11-01-2011, 10:34 AM
Not true at all. The A10 has Richmond, Xavier, and Temple. Some other years they have good teams from Dayton and St. Joes. Keep in mind the bottom half of the WCC is pathetic. The WCC has Gonzaga every year and rarely have another true tourney team. The WCC is a bad conference which looks better than it is because it has only had 8 teams and Gonzaga boosts the conference RPI to a reasonable level. Without GU's schedule every year, the WCC would be on par with the Big Sky in terms of RPI and other conference rankings.

The WCC is NOWHERE NEAR as good as the A10. Not even close.

+1

Angelo Roncalli
11-01-2011, 10:49 AM
I am not sure how much this means but it's nice to be recongnized. http://www.collegeinsider.com/mmpoll/

Being number 1 in the mid-major poll is like being crowned the queen of the "Girl Next Door" beauty pageant. Sort of like Santa Clara winning the CIB ("everyone gets a trophy") post-season tournament. I'd rather be "receiving vote" in the AP or ESPN/USAToday polls than be #1 in the mid-major poll.

BTW, does anyone remember who SCU beat in the CBI championship game? Without Googling it?

I thought so...

sittingon50
11-01-2011, 10:58 AM
Iona(?) (I didn't cheat).

JPtheBeasta
11-01-2011, 11:06 AM
Until the Zags consistently beat Memphis, they're the No. 1 mid-major in this fan's opinion.

:]

Good point :]. To heck with all of this Final Four and rankings prognostication. I would love to beat Memphis. Once.*

*Please.

04ZagFan
11-01-2011, 11:12 AM
Memphis isn't considered a mid major.. Conference USA and the A-10 aren't considered mid major conferences, despite how weak we think they are.... The term "mid major" isn't as lose of a term as some might think. You either are, or aren't a mid major. We are.

I could argue that the WCC was as strong as the PAC 10 a few years back, because UCLA and Arizona were bad, and the conferences top teams weren't even top 25, but the WCC had SMC, GOnzaga, and Portland in and out of the polls at different times.. Doesn't make the PAC 10 a mid major conference or Gonzaga in a high major conference.

CDC84
11-01-2011, 11:41 AM
Got to love that mid major BYU. They only play in and sell out a 23,000+ seat sports arena. There isn't an arena in the ACC, Big 12 and Pac 12 as big as the Marriott Center.

JPtheBeasta
11-01-2011, 11:56 AM
Threads like this always seem turn into a semantic discussion about what makes a mid major, which by no means is a problem. It's just funny how many different ideas are out there.

75Zag
11-01-2011, 12:20 PM
Being number 1 in the mid-major poll is like being crowned the queen of the "Girl Next Door" beauty pageant.

I was going to say it is like being named the tallest guy at a midget convention. (With applogies to the little people, etc., etc.)

I wish the mid major label would die a quick death. Perhaps referring to schools as being either "BCS" or "Non BCS" would work. Being the best Non BCS school in the country would be a decent accolade I think, but I am not sure GU would win that category.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

gamagin
11-01-2011, 12:22 PM
seem to remain high on the pre season radar screens. Many schools would kill to get just a mention of any kind. We get genuine respect.

I think it's because we remain a contender, a possible threat, a potential spoiler, historically, year over year, even though we may not always live up to the buildup.

We spent our first century+ like most of the rest of the basketball teams in the nation, toiling in obscurity. Lest we forget.

We're in the basketball nation's sweet spot and I hope we never fall or get pushed out of it.

Kiddwell
11-01-2011, 12:27 PM
Good point :]. To heck with all of this Final Four and rankings prognostication. I would love to beat Memphis. Once.*

*Please.

The Zags actually have beaten Memphis (once), two or three seasons ago. Otherwise, the Tigers have flatttened our noses, gut-kicked our bellies, karate chopped our clavicles, field-goal-kicked our seater-ends, and stove in our heads. :o

:]


<...um, forgot "groin-kicked our manihood doodads"...> :doh:

Mantua
11-01-2011, 12:27 PM
seem to remain high on the pre season radar screens. Many schools would kill to get just a mention of any kind. We get genuine respect.

I think it's because we remain a contender, a possible threat, a potential spoiler, historically, year over year, even though we may not always live up to the buildup.

We spent our first century+ like most of the rest of the basketball teams in the nation, toiling in obscurity. Lest we forget.

We're in the basketball nation's sweet spot and I hope we never fall or get pushed out of it.

+1

Happy to just count the blessings!

titopoet
11-01-2011, 01:31 PM
I don't think the vote included either A-10 or C-USA. I wonder why not.

04ZagFan
11-01-2011, 02:58 PM
I don't think the vote included either A-10 or C-USA. I wonder why not.


lol.. Because they aren't mid major conferences.......

maynard g krebs
11-01-2011, 05:08 PM
Without GU's schedule every year, the WCC would be on par with the Big Sky in terms of RPI and other conference rankings.



You were doing fine until this sentence. But the Big Sky winner is usually a 15-16 seed, and without looking it up, I think they are usually in the 25-28 range out of 31 conferences. My guess is without GU (and BYU), WCC at least stays in the upper teens on average, if not a little better.

With BYU, it can now be argued that the WCC and A-10 are pretty close. A few weeks ago, someone posted a link to a preseason conference ranking that had the WCC 7th this year. And Lindy's listed it as one of 11 high majors.

kitzbuel
11-01-2011, 06:41 PM
Conference re-alignment is going to play even more havoc with trying to figure out who mid-majors are. That tag is rapidly becoming obsolete.

JPtheBeasta
11-01-2011, 08:08 PM
"What's in a name? That which we call a mid-major
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Just for fun I did some research, trying to figure out for myself just what merits the classification of "mid-major." Aside from the 6 major conferences, it is hard to really pinpoint which conferences would qualify. Using Memphis' conference as an example, C-USA has the 3rd-largest school (UCF) and the smallest schools (Rice and Tulsa) in the FBS. BYU, who is by most accounts in a mid-major conference, has higher enrollment than all of the schools in C-USA, save for UCF. Many current members of the Big East (obviously a major BCS conference) who were members of C-USA until 2005, have good reputations in basketball: Lousville, Cincinnati, and Marquette.

The Big East, a major FBS conference, and seemingly the gold standard of college basketball last year, has multiple members that don't play football at all and have enrollments under 10,000 students, all of whom play each other in basketball. Eg. UConn (20,000 students) vs. Providence (3,800).

Looking at the Horizon league as another example, which mid-major darling Butler is in, has two schools with enrollment around 30,000 students. This census is greater than 7 (out of 12) schools in the ACC (a major BCS conference). The ACC has Wake Forest, whose enrollment is on par with any of the WCC schools (except for BYU), but has endowments of $937 million (on par with BYU).

In my opinion, one needs to follow the money to determine a "major" school. Overall conference RPI would be another thing, but can be manipulated by careful scheduling (http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/stories/103006aad.html). You can't use enrollment, individual RPI, tournament appearances, or tournament records to accurately predict who is or isn't a mid-major. Many of the small schools I came across in major conferences had large monetary endowments. On the other side of the coin, there are many mid-major schools with 20,000+ enrollments. Many mid major have had tournament success rival major programs (Temple, Butler, Xavier, Gonzaga...).

BYU is a subjective outlier with large enrollment and deep pockets. It will be gratifying to whoop they azz this year :]

titopoet
11-02-2011, 07:15 AM
lol.. Because they aren't mid major conferences.......

HUh? Those two are not listed as BCS, they are not part of the small conferences that just leave midmajors (Where would you put them? Since they are not BSC or in your mind not midmajors? Most include them as such:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-major)

EuroZag2010
11-02-2011, 07:59 AM
This post has certainly turned for the ugly..... my bad

Ezag
11-02-2011, 08:16 AM
ratings don't matter to the one team that stands in the end

Thomas_Sutpen
11-02-2011, 08:41 AM
"What's in a name? That which we call a mid-major
By any other name would smell as sweet."

Just for fun I did some research.....

JP, Nice job on a well-researched and thoughtful post. Ultimately, however, the "mid-major" label will endure, because the sports media, like other mass media, consist of lazy writers and pundits who haven't ever had an original idea. Every tourney must have the "little engine that could..." story line, and the "mid-major" label makes that drivel easier to produce, assembly-line style.

MDABE80
11-02-2011, 09:27 AM
I wonder what the powers that be would call us if we joined P12 basketball since we don't play football (anymore).
Such a foggy area.

exiledhusky
11-02-2011, 08:24 PM
Gonzaga is a major program in a mid major conferance. Not a bad place to be considering all the poaching going on in the BCS.

kitzbuel
11-03-2011, 05:48 AM
This post has certainly turned for the ugly..... my bad
Not at all. The mid major tag is always good for interesting discussion and opinion. Lots more interest in it now that schools like BYU, potentially Air Force and Boise St can be playing football in BCS conferences (or BCS indy status) and basketball in 'mid major' conferences.

krozman
11-03-2011, 07:11 AM
Butler just lost to a division 3 school in it's exhibition opener. Thinking the gap between 1 and 2 on this poll might be large, at least for now.