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View Full Version : Is Elias Harris a 5-Star Player?



Kiddwell
10-30-2011, 08:30 PM
Yeah, subjective...yeah, hindsight...but given what we've seen in Elias as a freshman (then coming on strong at season's end last year, after being injured early), then this year seeing the 15-minute intrasquad showcase and the Carroll College game, if you were at Scout, Rivals, or ESPN, would you in hindsight rate Elias Harris as a 5-star player?

For reference's sake, Micah Downs and Austin Daye were both rated 5-stars by various scouting services.

:]

MDABE80
10-30-2011, 09:07 PM
nope

ZagNative
10-30-2011, 09:50 PM
No sir.

duper
10-30-2011, 11:00 PM
5 stars don't usually play their JR year of college ball.

zag buddy
10-30-2011, 11:29 PM
In the first 6 minutes of the game he made two bad passes for tournovers and defensively twice his man left him in the dust and scored. He's got a lot of work to do. Take away the aggresive, effective offense and their is not much left. Keep working Elies and good luck.

cggonzaga
10-31-2011, 01:02 AM
He'd be on the cusp. Top 50 player for sure.


5 stars don't usually play their JR year of college ball.

Seriously? Haha. So every 2 years all the mcdonalds all Americans go pro? Hardly.

Zag Buddy, he also had 9 rebounds in those 15 minutes. I'm not saying he's perfect but are you really pointing out his 3 mistakes in the first exhibition game of the season? EH is our best player period and I have a feeling he'll be back on the NBAs radar before this season is over.

Baldwinzag
10-31-2011, 03:25 AM
Tommy thinks he would have at least been in the discussion:


What Lloyd saw in that small gym in Speyer made the trip worthwhile. "If this kid had been in the U.S.," Lloyd says he was thinking while watching Harris play against a club of seasoned professionals, "he would have been a McDonald's All-American."

Luxury Imports Are Here - Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1166491/index.htm)

jazzdelmar
10-31-2011, 05:58 AM
3 and a half. 4 tops. as it looks now, he will never be the pro daye is. as for downs, well, they make mistakes. but 5? no way. a very good college player.

75Zag
10-31-2011, 06:11 AM
The 5 star power forwards in Harris' class were Cousins (KY), Henson (UNC), Yarou ('nova), Taylor (Pitt), Sidney (Miss. St.), Williams (skipped college went directly to NBA "D" league), Judge (K. State), Kelly (Duke) and Jennings (Clemson).

I do not believe Harris is equal to any of those players so my answer to the question is NO, but I like Harris' game and I look forward to his success as a Bulldog.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

webspinnre
10-31-2011, 07:36 AM
My guess is that he'd have been a 4 star player, and maybe ranked in the 40s or so.

CDC84
10-31-2011, 08:02 AM
Elias Harris came in the 2009 class. Ask yourself this....how many guys on the 2009 McDonald's AA roster have contributed what Elias has contributed so far....even with his injury plagued sophomore season (where he still averaged 12.4 PPG, 6.3 RPG on 52% shooting)....

http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/high-school/high-school-wire/2009/02/2009-mcdonalds-all-american-game-rosters/

The Wear twins? Nope. Abdul Gaddy? Nope. Renardo Sidney? Nope. Tiny Gallon? Nope. Here are some guys on the roster and their stat lines from last season:

Milton Jennings - 8.3 PPG, 41% FG
Dante Taylor - 5.1 PPG
Michael Snaer - 8.8 PPG, 40% FG
Dominic Cheek - 5.6 PPG, 46% FG

The only thing that is clear is that Elias is not one of these guys like DeMarcus Cousins or Derrick Favors.

What people forget is that most of the Burger Boy team isn't comprised of one and done or two and done talents. I mean, Larry Drew Jr. was a McDonald's AA. That's all you need to know.

cjm720
10-31-2011, 08:44 AM
Very close. I think he'd dominate in HS here...situated in the right coast or venue, yes.

CaliforniaZaggin'
10-31-2011, 09:08 AM
Derrick Williams was a 3-star prospect from the same recruiting class as Elias. "Stars" don't mean much.

MDABE80
10-31-2011, 09:39 AM
Still "no".:)

TheGonzagaFactor
10-31-2011, 10:50 AM
...he will never be the pro daye is...

Are you saying EH won't make it to the Association, or are you saying Daye's success will be hard to duplicate?

If Elias gets better this year (which is likely seeing as we have a point guard that the defense is aware of), he could absolutely average 20 MPG, 43%FGs, 3.8 rebounds and 7.5 points for a last place team in his second NBA season. I believe Elias has a better scoring and rebounding average in WCC games than Daye did in his two years, and the WCC is better now than it was in 2009.

I'm not going to get into how many stars they should give Elias because this year hasn't even started, but I don't get what you meant by "the pro daye is".

maynard g krebs
10-31-2011, 11:02 AM
The question was "in hindsight, based on where he is now", so the answer is clearly yes. Five star is top 25 in your class. EH is on all the Wooden top 50 lists, and on some preseason AA teams. There are 4 classes; that's an average of 12.5 per class. Even allowing for players who go pro early, he's easily in the top 25 in this year's jr class, including the guys from his class who went early.

All the Wooden 50 lists. Some preseason AA lists. Number 20 on CBS preseason list. Very obviously a consensus top 30 player in all ofCBB now; NBA projections are irrelevant.

Absolute no brainer, the way the question was phrased. Where he would have been coming out of hs in the US is a different question, which wasn't asked.

FieldHouseFishHouse
10-31-2011, 11:06 AM
This thread turned out better than expected, kind of like E's career so far. Even his 2nd year was pretty good considering he came in with very little hype.
I personally was turned off by the way the original question was phrased. I don't really give a rat's ass about stars or burgers or whatever.
What I'm wondering is: Will Elias Harris make us forget he even had a sophmore slump?

Worthington
10-31-2011, 03:24 PM
Is it fair to lump Harris in with the 2009 class considering he is older than those players?

MDABE80
10-31-2011, 03:41 PM
Of course it's fair. BUT...still "no".

Hope he plays up to his potential this year. He's key to many things. Elias needs to be viscious! Needs to get angry and push it. He's big and strong enough to do that.

Worthington
10-31-2011, 03:51 PM
Well if the hypothetical question is whether he would be a 5 star high school player if he had played in the US, then technically he would have been like a 20 year old high school senior in that class. It's very likely he would have been a McDonalds all-american, but he came to Gonzaga at the same physical maturity stage as a college junior.

04ZagFan
10-31-2011, 04:11 PM
One of the worst threads ever. Why do we praise players that really aren't good enough to take us over the edge, and then bash the players that can?

MDABE80
10-31-2011, 06:21 PM
One of the worst threads ever. Why do we praise players that really aren't good enough to take us over the edge, and then bash the players that can?

No bashing yet.

MickMick
10-31-2011, 08:02 PM
I would hope that a junior would take better care of the basketball. I keep hearing that our frosh are going to be the guys turning it over. My eyes are showing me something different.

I want to see the Harris I saw in Maui. That player is definitely a 5 star.

cggonzaga
10-31-2011, 08:22 PM
I would hope that a junior would take better care of the basketball. I keep hearing that our frosh are going to be the guys turning it over. My eyes are showing me something different.

Could we possibly stop with these blanket type statements until oh I don't know, we've played an actual regular season game? Maybe even until we've played about a month or two in the season?

Clearly some here have issues with EH. I don't get it but everyone has the right to an opinion. For me he is hands down the best player on the team and could have an AA type of season, turnovers and all ;)

MDABE80
10-31-2011, 08:27 PM
Well 5 stars or not, he'll be a ferocious force this year. Slimming down and hitting the weights have made Elias better than he was his 1st year.

I'd say he's poised for a very solid year. My guess is that he'll be on more highlight films than he was before. We need some more games. He'll be where we want him though.

Kiddwell
10-31-2011, 08:30 PM
The thread's genesis was all the excitement generated on this board relative to this year's Elias Harris. A lot of people (who've seen Elias in person) seem exceedingly excited about this year's edition--Elias's improved health, improved energy, renewed and/or improved quickness, etc.

A good gauge of Elias's "star power," IMO, would be his playing head-to-head against a SF/PF popularly rated five stars by the scouting services. Maybe Elias will get that chance in this year's Big Dance.

Kiddwell thinks Elias Harris is a "lock" four-star player. Eagerly waiting to see what extra he might bring to his game this year.

And regarding the importance of stars, c'mon, when the rare five-star athlete has GU on his short list, we're not as a group all giddy with hope? :pray:

:]

MickMick
11-01-2011, 03:21 AM
Could we possibly stop with these blanket type statements until oh I don't know, we've played an actual regular season game? Maybe even until we've played about a month or two in the season?

Clearly some here have issues with EH. I don't get it but everyone has the right to an opinion. For me he is hands down the best player on the team and could have an AA type of season, turnovers and all ;)

Blanket statement?

My eyes are telling me the emporer is naked.

It is about form and technique. I don't care if it is practice, exhibition, or the WCC title game. I know a lazy pass when I see one. I expect more from a junior. He has two seasons under his belt.

You don't lob passes inside unless they are high, close to the rim, and in a position where only your guy can make a play. Otherwise, you need to put a little zip on them. If a pass doesn't get there with zip, it is a lazy pass. You have to trust that your center doesn't have stone hands.

I'll continue to call it like I see it. I hate unforced turnovers and will call them out no matter who does it. This isn't about having a "thing" for EH. This is about your star player setting an example for your new players.

ZagsGoZags
11-01-2011, 03:31 AM
someone said:

Could we possibly stop with these blanket type statements ..


who are you to tell other people to stop making blanket statements
blanket statements probably make up a third of all posts

want us to send our statements to you first, so they get stamped blanket or "not blanket?"

at every stage of the season the blanket statements will pour in

jees

how about disagree and give reasons,
without asking others to silence themselves?

bigblahla
11-01-2011, 05:26 AM
Blanket statement?

My eyes are telling me the emperor is naked.

It is about form and technique. I don't care if it is practice, exhibition, or the WCC title game. I know a lazy pass when I see one. I expect more from a junior. He has two seasons under his belt.

You don't lob passes inside unless they are high, close to the rim, and in a position where only your guy can make a play. Otherwise, you need to put a little zip on them. If a pass doesn't get there with zip, it is a lazy pass. You have to trust that your center doesn't have stone hands.

I'll continue to call it like I see it. I hate unforced turnovers and will call them out no matter who does it. This isn't about having a "thing" for EH. This is about your star player setting an example for your new players.

Haven't read every post here but in his first steal breakaway flush against CC he almost lost the ball on his last dribble as he was going up. Still less than stellar handles for his overall talent when dribbling the ball.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

04ZagFan
11-01-2011, 08:16 AM
I really hope those complaining about his turnovers aren't the same people wanting him to play small forward this season.....

He's not a ball handler.. He's just not. Sure, he's more versatile than your average PF, but he's still no ball handler. Anytime he is able to put the ball on the floor and make a move, I look at it as a bonus. Turnovers are going to happen with a player like Elias. Not the end of the world.

Was Elias' sophomore season somewhat of a disappointment? Yeah... But I still find it funny that we criticize the hell out of our best player (even though he does have flaws) and then praise the player on the team that really isn't high major caliber (not going to name names.)

bigblahla
11-01-2011, 09:39 AM
I really hope those complaining about his turnovers aren't the same people wanting him to play small forward this season.....

He's not a ball handler.. He's just not. Sure, he's more versatile than your average PF, but he's still no ball handler. Anytime he is able to put the ball on the floor and make a move, I look at it as a bonus. Turnovers are going to happen with a player like Elias. Not the end of the world.

Complaining?

Exactly how many turnovers are acceptable 04ZF, what's tolerable in your book. Do you think Coach and staff view turnovers as acceptable?

Not the end of the world, No. Kill momentum, cost us a game, Yes. Think Wake Forest as an example.

Glad E is a Zag love his game but I've seen no critique in this thread about him I can't agree with.

Not complaining, discussing and voicing opinions isn't that why we are all here?

Peace out.

Go!! Zags!!!

04ZagFan
11-01-2011, 10:59 AM
Elias has averaged less than 2 turnovers a game in his career at Gonzaga..... I'd say that's pretty tolerable.

"ELIAS IS A TURNOVER MACHINE! HE ISN'T A GOOD BALL HANDLER... NOW COACH FEW NEEDS TO MAKE HIM A 3 OR HE'LL NEVER MAKE IT IN THE NBA."

Makes tons of sense.... ;-)

MickMick
11-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Elias has averaged less than 2 turnovers a game in his career at Gonzaga..... I'd say that's pretty tolerable.

"ELIAS IS A TURNOVER MACHINE! HE ISN'T A GOOD BALL HANDLER... NOW COACH FEW NEEDS TO MAKE HIM A 3 OR HE'LL NEVER MAKE IT IN THE NBA."

Makes tons of sense.... ;-)



That is because Few puts him in a position to maximize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses.

Here is the rule of thumb for Harris:

The closer he is to the rim, the better he is. The scale is logarithmic, not linear. He is incredibly good underneath the hoop.

As for playing the 3 or 4, I think I have a long track record on that subject. I recall being one of a couple folks that initially raised concern on the issue. I took a lot of heat for it. Almost everyone was on board for Harris playing small forward. I can dig up a couple links on it if necessary. It was very close to being exactly one year ago.

upan8th
11-01-2011, 12:29 PM
Elias hasn't been quite center stage in a blockbuster production just yet. In the words of an ILLUSTRIOUS POSTER on this forum, he has yet to EXPLODE! or was it IMPLODE? No, wait, he hasn't BLOWN UP! yet. Given the lead role in GU's imminent dazzling execution of the '11-'12 season, it would not surprise me to see him, by season's end, ROCKETTE up from his current 5 Starlet status...

cggonzaga
11-01-2011, 12:29 PM
Mick, the reason I used the term "blanket statement" is because you came across as if he has been doing it his whole junior season, one in which hasnt began yet. You also stated the freshmen weren't making turnovers, again as if you had a large base of games to go off of.

You can be upset at turnovers all you want, we all do. Fact of the matter is teams turn the ball over an average of 20 times a game. Guess what, even upper classmen make them. To point out his mistakes in a game in which he scored 13pts, pulled down 9 rebounds and played agressive defense in 15 minutes seems awfully petty to me. Also, I didn't see those as lazy passes. I saw a guy that knows that's what the coaching wants him to do while he seems hesitant to make that pass. I saw indecisiveness not laziness. And no, any non crisp pass does not make it a lazy pass, that's ridiculous!

Blah, seriously? He almost dribbled it off his foot? Could you get any more petty?

Do some of you sit on recliners like grumpy old men with scowls on your face the whole time the game is going on? Clearly you believe the game should be played perfectly. Which is funny considering it's a game you'll fail more at than succeed. That's why a good shooter only makes half of his shots and the best ball handler and passer still turns the ball over on occasion.

By the way, this thread was about whether or not EH would've been a five star recruit, not how he played in last weeks exhibition. It was looking at his overall career thus far.

MickMick
11-01-2011, 12:53 PM
Mick, the reason I used the term "blanket statement" is because you came across as if he has been doing it his whole junior season, one in which hasnt began yet. You also stated the freshmen weren't making turnovers, again as if you had a large base of games to go off of.

You can be upset at turnovers all you want, we all do. Fact of the matter is teams turn the ball over an average of 20 times a game. Guess what, even upper classmen make them. To point out his mistakes in a game in which he scored 13pts, pulled down 9 rebounds and played agressive defense in 15 minutes seems awfully petty to me. Also, I didn't see those as lazy passes. I saw a guy that knows that's what the coaching wants him to do while he seems hesitant to make that pass. I saw indecisiveness not laziness. And no, any non crisp pass does not make it a lazy pass, that's ridiculous!

Blah, seriously? He almost dribbled it off his foot? Could you get any more petty?

Do some of you sit on recliners like grumpy old men with scowls on your face the whole time the game is going on? Clearly you believe the game should be played perfectly. Which is funny considering it's a game you'll fail more at than succeed. That's why a good shooter only makes half of his shots and the best ball handler and passer still turns the ball over on occasion.

By the way, this thread was about whether or not EH would've been a five star recruit, not how he played in last weeks exhibition. It was looking at his overall career thus far.

Yea, I think I answered that.

The Harris we saw in Maui was definitely a 5 star recruit.

zag buddy
11-01-2011, 01:27 PM
cgg- I think you would be wise to replay the game and just watch his defense on every play.

bigblahla
11-01-2011, 02:18 PM
[QUOTE=cggonzaga;692198]Blah, seriously? He almost dribbled it off his foot? Could you get any more petty?QUOTE]

Petty?

Parts of your post are petty by definition.

Actually he almost missed the final dribble with his right hand as it was off the back of his palm and his wrist but then watching E dribble is a adventure.

Not hating on him just commenting on my observations.

I agree with what Mick said about technique. Obviously you don't.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

spartyzag
11-01-2011, 02:33 PM
what about that new hair-do? makes him look younger, rounder,and a half step slower! who know's what it does to the handles.:horse:

04ZagFan
11-01-2011, 02:57 PM
[QUOTE=cggonzaga;692198]Blah, seriously? He almost dribbled it off his foot? Could you get any more petty?QUOTE]

Petty?

Parts of your post are petty by definition.

Actually he almost missed the final dribble with his right hand as it was off the back of his palm and his wrist but then watching E dribble is a adventure.

Not hating on him just commenting on my observations.

I agree with what Mick said about technique. Obviously you don't.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

WOW! A power forward struggling to dribble the ball on a break away. SHOCKING. less than 2 TOs a game for his career.. TOs aren't ELias' problem.

cggonzaga
11-01-2011, 03:58 PM
Petty?

Yes. You're talking about a turnover that didn't happen. That is petty.

MickMick
11-01-2011, 04:10 PM
On another note, I will speak of the game where I thought Harris was utilized on the offensive end in a masterful way. That would be the game against Syracuse in the NCAA tournament a couple years back. I don't know if you can find the video of it, but here is a link (http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2010/03/sweet_victory_syracuse_overcom.html)to the article. Mostly bragging about the duo of Wes Johnson or Andy Rautins.

Regardless of being shredded from three point land, the Bouldin to Harris lob dunks were killing that vaunted Orange defense. Never was it more apparent that Harris success was so dependent on Matt.

This is why I am so hopeful with the infusion of young ball handlers/passers. Until Harris and Sacre both get fed inside with "Bouldin like" acumen, we will never see their true potential.

bigblahla
11-01-2011, 04:57 PM
Yes. You're talking about a turnover that didn't happen. That is petty.

No I'm talking about his dribbling and how it doesn't look as if it's progressed over the off season.

Go!! Zags!!!

gamagin
11-01-2011, 05:29 PM
They are for the summer when there is nothing else to write, think or argue about.

I hope for him and us that he takes charge of his position, dominates his opponent and leaves a positive impact on our team and the win. Every game.

He looks intent on trying his best. He's worked himself in to becoming a physical specimen to be respected. So he's more than ready shape-wise.

How that shakes out will be game to game and up to him to impose his will on whoever is just as intent on stopping him.

I can't wait to see him discover himself and his upper limits.

Bogozags
11-01-2011, 06:09 PM
They are for the summer when there is nothing else to write, think or argue about.

I hope for him and us that he takes charge of his position, dominates his opponent and leaves a positive impact on our team and the win. Every game.

He looks intent on trying his best. He's worked himself in to becoming a physical specimen to be respected. So he's more than ready shape-wise.

How that shakes out will be game to game and up to him to impose his will on whoever is just as intent on stopping him.

I can't wait to see him discover himself and his upper limits.

+1 Again, very well put!

exiledhusky
11-02-2011, 08:49 PM
The best that can be said about ratings is: some five stars can play, some can't carry a walk on's jock strap. Harris can play.