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Zags11
10-28-2011, 11:30 PM
Yes? No? thoughts?

I know we saw zags play zags and then Carroll college. I am super impressed and feel like Zags will make there 1st Final 4 appearance this year. I know some hate the jinx, but I just have this real good feeling.

Pangos will be the starter by late November if even that long. Spangler will be getting some big minutes. I know Richard Fox said Spangler reminds him of Violette and casey without the bounce. Spangler is more Violette then Casey. Spangler just has a knack.

Your thoughts?

cggonzaga
10-29-2011, 07:36 AM
Impressed? Yes. Ready to annoint Final 4 team? Nope. PG position is in steady hands but Stockton will need to knock down shots to play major minutes. Pangos looks very good. We'll need much more from Bell but it's way early and he plays phenomenal defense. We'll have to lean on Rob, E and Carter early on. All 3 are more than capable. Monninghoff has an incredible stroke. I still don't see Spangler getting "major" minutes. There just won't be enough to go around after Rob, E and Sam. He is a player though.

75Zag
10-29-2011, 07:43 AM
Yes? No? thoughts?

I know we saw zags play zags and then Carroll college. I am super impressed and feel like Zags will make there 1st Final 4 appearance this year. I know some hate the jinx, but I just have this real good feeling.

Your thoughts?

My thought is that you had some of those funny mushrooms on your pizza. Knock it off.

Bulldogs were playing CARROLL not north CAROLina.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

MickMick
10-29-2011, 07:45 AM
Prediction:

Few will stick with what works. If that means spreading the wealth he will go there. If that means tightening up the rotation, he will go there. Hence, it is just too early too predict who plays and who doesn't.

I don't know how you keep your leading rebounder out of the rotation. I guess the correct answer is when he stops being your top rebounder.

There is no doubt that Hart looks to be one of the more improved returners. As I had speculated, he seems to be very aware of where the half circle under the basket is. His "help" defense is nothing short of top notch.

Zags have a logjam at many positions.

Goshzagit
10-29-2011, 07:46 AM
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_nupcQjieU9o/TKnf691OAzI/AAAAAAAAABo/JE7sN0VsdWI/s1600/areyounotentertained.jpg

GUDan07
10-29-2011, 07:47 AM
My thought is that you had some of those funny mushrooms on your pizza. Knock it off.

Bulldogs were playing CARROLL not north CAROLina.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

This.

Ezag
10-29-2011, 07:55 AM
This.

+1

Hoopaholic
10-29-2011, 08:00 AM
if spangler continues to play like he did we will see Harris moved the the three slot and get alot of playing time at that position


front line was awesome

guard play has me little concerned

RenoZag
10-29-2011, 08:03 AM
Drang, Spang, Pang : Future looks bright

Bell: Will have to wait to see what the fuss was all about

Harris: Looked like he found his overdrive in the off season

Sacre: Ready for his best season yet but don't know if he's AA material. . .

Carter: The guy doesn't get the headlines yet he's a solid contributor. . .

Landry, Hart, Keita, Hoff: Role players who can provide a spark off the bench

PG: All three need to work on feeding the bigs; some sloppy passing last night.

Defense: Thought the opening line-up was giving a solid effort on D; liked the way they were pressuring the ball in the backcourt with two G vs. one. . .Zags picked a few pockets last night and that's always fun to watch

It was great to see the Zags on the court. . .too bad we have wait until Veteran's Day to see them again. . .a lot of practice time & the Texas scrimmage between now and then should result in a crisper passing game. . .


Have a good weekend !

jbslicer
10-29-2011, 08:09 AM
I'm going to wait to see how they do against WSU. Everyone got all excited last year when the Zags beat two patsies then SDSU came in and kicked their butt.

Johnnygu
10-29-2011, 08:12 AM
I've read all the excitement about Pangos and the team on this board and I am a big zag fan. But final four? Please stop. No need for an Erroll Knight prediction. Zags have a LONG, LONG, LONG way to go. Sacre and Harris still havn't proved they can carry us to big victories, the newcomers have to prove they produce consistently, and nobody on the team has shown the heart, intensity level, and defensive effort(like Butler possessed) to make it to a final four.

The mountain we never climbed last year, or any year, is still right there. It was tough last year when the entire season was reduced to a BYU buttwhooping. As always, zags will be judged by the NCAA tourney.

MickMick
10-29-2011, 08:44 AM
Drang, Spang, Pang : Future looks bright

PG: All three need to work on feeding the bigs; some sloppy passing last night.

Have a good weekend !


With respect to poor post feeds (resulting in unforced turnover), I counted two on Harris and one on Monninghoff. Last I checked, they aren't point guards. Indeed, last night was the best point guard passing I have seen in two years.

Goshzagit
10-29-2011, 08:54 AM
Although we're less athletic, little slower at PG, our trio moves FAST with the ball and down the court. A 20 foot pass down the court is faster than one player running a 4.4 40 down the floor by himself into nowhere. Point is, we have to be encouraged by Pangos & Stockton pushing the ball at EVERY single opportunity. During WCC media day, Coach Few was asked if the team will be more half-court orientated this year with the loss of speed in the backcourt, he said, "it'll be just the opposite in my mind, with the skill & depth we have, it'll be faster". I see what he's referring to. Every deflection, tipped, or loose ball Pangos, Stockton, & Dranginis passed the ball quickly to the player running down the court and hit a running Elias, Spangler, etc for an easy, fast buckets. I'm sorry, but we haven't seen that in 2 years! Only time last season was when Stocks came in, now we have 3 or 4 actual PG's who "get it". This is the reason Coach Few keeps saying "this group picks things up quickly & we have great chemistry on and off the floor".

Its early, but no denying our skill level just went up 2 or 3 notches from last season's team.

Still upset Guy Landry has to sit out a 1/3rd of the season. Bummed about this, he was really primed to be our X-factor vs BCS big boys.

BobZag
10-29-2011, 09:02 AM
Not too. Much work needs to be done yet.

cjm720
10-29-2011, 09:47 AM
Yes. Pangos and Spangler instantly make us better. Bell was held back. Guy impressive. Harris aggressive, needs to be smarter and play within the offense. Stock will be a good reserve. Carter makes the game look easy but may see less time this year compared to last. Drang is a longer more confident Gibbs w better range too.

Rotation is going to be interesting but I'd go pangs bell Spangler Harris sacre w Carter dower and stocks first off the bench

04ZagFan
10-29-2011, 09:51 AM
I saw a good group of veterans mixed with a nice group of freshman who need to improve. We aren't North Carolina or Kentucky.. Our freshman aren't going to come out and dominate right away.

Are we final four good? I really, really, really doubt it. Too much youth. This team will still go as far as Elias, Rob, and Marquise take em. This recruiting class may eventually be the best class ever, BUT nobody is as ready as an Elias or Austin Daye were as freshmen.

Ekrub
10-29-2011, 09:57 AM
lol I liked the "Drang, Spang, and Pang"

Kind of like the Daye, Gray, and Sacre '07 class.

gamagin
10-29-2011, 10:09 AM
DS or Pangos passing to a combo choice of EH, Spangler and Hart and even Sam at key times.

I think we'd see a dramatic improvement at the anticipating/receiving//finishing end of our game.

I believe much of the problems getting the ball to RS, MM, & sometimes EH underneath, involve their trouble with the quickness of the decision making and the coordination and timing required to connect at mach speed.

In other words, I believe we have the passer(s). Our receivers are what seem to be the problem. Too often, anyway, to really break a good team's spirit with endless bunnies and a game down low which would force our game on them.

But it could happen and, imo, be impressive.

zagzilla
10-29-2011, 10:10 AM
This is not a team with FF talent right now. Not even close.

Honestly I thought they looked about the same as last year's team. That's pretty good but not elite. PG still looks shaky but promising and that is where we need to improve ALOT and quickly.

Optimistic about the future, though. Keep sawing wood.

ZZ

RenoZag
10-29-2011, 10:11 AM
Thanks for the correction, Mick. . .

04ZagFan
10-29-2011, 10:13 AM
I think it's pretty obvious at this point that we have two really smart PGs who are great passers.......

But is anybody else worried about the physicality of the game, especially playing defense? Who's going to guard Aden and Moore against WSU? We already know David can't. I think Gary Bell is the only freshman guard physically ready.

A few days ago, I read somebody's post around here that talked about how much better Pangos looked as a freshman compared to Dan Dickau. Admittedly, I never saw Dan Dickau as a freshman, but let's cut the Dickau/Pangos comparisons out until he's a junior. He's got a long ways to go.

gamagin
10-29-2011, 10:14 AM
How about the D played by Harris and Sacre early on? Those two guys keep that up and a lot of teams will get frustrated.

RS at the top of the key. There is something wrong with that. Biggest, strongest guy on the court atop the key.

And, it seems to me, that is exactly where everyone we play against wants him.

So why give them what they want ? This seems to be a GU tradition, going back to at least JH.

04ZagFan
10-29-2011, 10:19 AM
Let me just say this to the people thinking we are a Final Four team this year....

Think of all of the talent we have had in this program since 1998.... Think about the great TEAMS we have had since 1998.. We've never made a final four. This team has a LOOOOOOONNNGGG way to go.

CDC84
10-29-2011, 11:18 AM
I don't expect to get a proper read on this team until maybe late December. There are too many young players in the rotation. Especially at the guard spot. They need to get their feet wet. The team still needs to form an identity.

I do like the pieces though.

gamagin
10-29-2011, 11:25 AM
How about keeping their 3 point percentage to 25%?. I think it depends on the game plan of the other team and the size of your opponent. You certainly can't always do that nor should you. The hustle from those two guys was really nice to see. That said...I don't think our guards can play like that, right now.

I think we should be playing our game. The opponents' game, for at least the past 3-5 years, has been to rotate our center out from underneath, creating a mismatch (and easy points) there (say with DS or Pangos on THEIR big) while our big is atop the key.

IF we allow it, it will never end until DS or Pangos grows a foot and becomes a center.

Goshzagit
10-29-2011, 11:55 AM
A wee bit concerned w/ our guards getting blown by on several occasions, especially Stockton at half-court pressure.

LOVED the various transitional passes by KP. His vision is tremendous on the break...he did the same thing at Kraziness. He'll be seeing a lot of playing time as a Frosh.

Still not in-love with Sacre/Harris/or Dower at the high-low entry pass. Simply put, they suck at passing to their own kind. This is where Olynyk shined.

I thought Guy Landry showed promise at SF - both from a defensive and offensive standpoint. Seems like a solid rebounder as well.

Sacre was Sacre with more assertiveness.

Spangler was a revelation, even on the defensive side of things. Always assumed he was strong, good rebounder, nose for the ball, but didn't realize he had some passing skills and a good bball IQ -- dare I say a more skilled player than Violette at the same stage? We'll see...

Kinda fell in love with Dranginis style of play. He's unlike anyone we've had, maybe a skinny Stepp but different. He's got some long arms too. Good defender and willing rebounder for a guard. Smooth with the ball and quietly makes the right pass every time. Very good at drawing defenders to him, then finding the open guy. He may RS, but could also be a regular this year too. Needs more strength to exploit his game though...see him being All-WCC type of guard for us when its all said & done.

Man, I wish Sacre were a Junior and could play with this set of guards another year especially with their sure-fire improvements.

Very heady team. Smart. Hustle. We're going to really enjoy watching this team. They will win some big games. Too skilled and talented not to, but will also lose some head-scratchers. Freshman ALWAYS have high and lows. Every single player in the history of basketball has suffered growing pains.

Like CDC mentioned, really like the pieces. It could come together in a big way as long as we stay healthy. Really struggling with losing Guy Landry vs our toughest opponents this season, gotta get over it thought and move on...

MickMick
10-29-2011, 12:34 PM
No one gave VCU a shot at the final four. In fact, folks at Colorado and SMC were initially bemoaning the fact that VCU "took their spot".

After last season, I wouldn't put a final four past the top 50 teams in the country. I put GU in that group.

JPtheBeasta
10-29-2011, 12:54 PM
I just hope the team thinks they are Final Four material and works hard to prove it.

The teams that go far are usually ones that return a lot of talent and experience. We are a little light in experience in the guard spot for me to have realistic expectations for a FF. That said, I always think we have a puncher's chance against every team we play, so why not GU this year?

MickMick
10-29-2011, 03:33 PM
As Mark Few once said. There is a lot of luck that goes on in the tournament. You just can't predict luck.

Hence, one cannot predict if any given team will or will not reach a final four.

Exhibit 1:

VCU has to play an extra game in the tournament (mathematically, this is a very large decrease in likelihood), and reaches the final Four.

Exhibit 2:

Two seasons ago, Kansas was a prohibitive favorite, considered most likely of all the #1 seeds, to reach the Final Four. Enter Northern Iowa. Jayhawks are finished.

This Final Four talk, at this juncture, is all fluff. No one knows if GU can or cannot get there.

So if we do get collectively dumb enough to make it a topic at this point, I'll go ahead and take the position that a fan would.

Of course with this roster, GU can make it.

VCU inspired me.

maynard g krebs
10-29-2011, 03:45 PM
My guess is that the best shot at a F4 is when the new guys are sophs or jrs. They have very good, but not elite talent. They are all smart, skilled, and unselfish, so give them a year or 2 and it will become a team where the whole is more than the sum of the parts.

I hope the frosh prove me wrong and grow up really quick, but 2 of them would have to make a major contribution for this team to be great.

Reborn
10-29-2011, 04:23 PM
I was impressed by FlyZag streaming the game to many of us fans online. Thanks again, Fly. The last serveral years I had to drive around Yakima looking for some place where I could pick up the game. I would drive to one place and listen to it for awhile, and I'd loose the signal and have to drive to another. It was nervewrecking. It was nice to see the game live on the internet in my home.

As a team I did not think the Zags were impressive. But I do not think they need to be in this game. Its far too early to look for an impressive game. Their 3 pt shooting will have to improve a lot before I use the word impressive. I was very disappointed in the outside shooting. Same for foul shooting. This game was for the newbies, and overall this group was impressive.

I was impressed with the play of some of the Freshmen. They are the guys right now fighting for playing time, and in a couple of situations maybe even starting positions. As in the scrimmage last week, the 2nd unit was more iompressive then the starters, and that does NOT impress me. Cudos to Spangler and Dranginis for giving it 100% effort all game long.

04ZagFan
10-29-2011, 04:53 PM
Yes.
I am impressed.

I am already on record predicting Elite 8 or better this year.
Now moreso.
The clock has begun ticking.

A few of us have our necks splayed out on the chopping block.
Somebody will be right. By March we'll know.

Dunno what flavor kool-aid you are drinking, but maybe I need some.

ZagsGoZags
10-29-2011, 06:09 PM
Originally Posted by ZagsGoZags
Yes.
I am impressed.

I am already on record predicting Elite 8 or better this year.
Now moreso.
The clock has begun ticking.

A few of us have our necks splayed out on the chopping block.
Somebody will be right. By March we'll know.

then I may have to eat my words
and take some teasing

TheBunnieRancher
10-29-2011, 08:38 PM
I was most impressed by the team playing all out and wearing down the opponent. 40 minutes of h&ll for the opponents night in and night out will go a long way towards covering up our lack of experience. I hope we see more of it as the season progresses.

Zags11
10-30-2011, 02:37 AM
I don't drink kool-aid much, just a nice gut feeling. I know if and when we have a bad spell that this topic will be brought to attention. I firmly believe that pangos will be the starter by December, and will have some bumps but will bring a steady increase to points and defense.

Stockton will be a good fit for brief spells. He is too small for the big schools and guy laundry will have alot of minutes as well.

So, I will swing mt zag sword and carry the burden of a final four appearance. They will, have fait.

DADoZAG
10-30-2011, 08:10 AM
This would be a horrible occurrence for so many posters…


then I may have to eat my words
and take some teasing

In regard to the OP, no, I wasn’t impressed. But I have a feeling I will be. It was nice to see 29 due to defense, but I’m tired of that question in the eyes of GBJ. If that question lasts much longer it’s on staff.

Spangler is what I expected. Guy missing eight won’t hurt in the long run, just make him a force come December.

The development of “game legs” will improve 3 point shooting (which would have eliminated about 50% of one thread's posts) and free throw performance (amazed the sky isn’t falling on this board because of the horrible charity strip shooting). The harried game speed will slow as the starting four become five so they can play faster.

But I agree that change probably won’t happen until just after turkey day. Colorado should be telling, but the respect Coach has for the HOF will slow his decision (perhaps rightfully so) until after WSU (once again the low point of the season, but that’s a good thing ‘cause close don’t count).

Seattle seems a bit less daunting today, so a good performance at X becomes key to Portland (although I’m still having nightmares over a San Diego trap).

Final Four? I think Harris will see it, but as a senior ‘cause the Elite Eight will just bring out his bitter beer face.

Go ZAGS!

duper
10-30-2011, 07:46 PM
There you go. Right on! they never quiet playing.
40 minutes of hell? Arkansas 1990's style?

Zags don't have the athletes to play that style of ball, sorry just won't happen.

MickMick
10-30-2011, 07:57 PM
40 minutes of hell? Arkansas 1990's style?

Zags don't have the athletes to play that style of ball, sorry just won't happen.

First of all, Few doesn't play that style.

Second of all, Few doesn't recruit for that style.

Finally, the Zags have depth. They can rotate bodys and keep guys fresh. You don't have to be Arkansas to wear down opponents. I perfectly understand the context in which the "40 minutes of hell" was intended.

Obviously you did not.

Mark Few will never, ever use full court press for an entire game. If you never intend to use the style, you will never recruit for that style of play. If Few wanted to use that style, the roster would be full of players capable of doing it.

So tell us something we don't already know.

duper
10-30-2011, 11:05 PM
First of all, Few doesn't play that style.

Second of all, Few doesn't recruit for that style.

Finally, the Zags have depth. They can rotate bodys and keep guys fresh. You don't have to be Arkansas to wear down opponents. I perfectly understand the context in which the "40 minutes of hell" was intended.

Obviously you did not.

Mark Few will never, ever use full court press for an entire game. If you never intend to use the style, you will never recruit for that style of play. If Few wanted to use that style, the roster would be full of players capable of doing it.

So tell us something we don't already know.

You said the same thing I said, but you needed more words to say it! So yes tell us something we don't already know, because obviously you did not.

MickMick
10-31-2011, 04:26 AM
You said the same thing I said, but you needed more words to say it! So yes tell us something we don't already know, because obviously you did not.

Perhaps it is how you twisted someone's post into having us believe they wanted to use Arkansas style of defense.

I understood the context. You did not.

duper
10-31-2011, 07:02 AM
Perhaps it is how you twisted someone's post into having us believe they wanted to use Arkansas style of defense.

I understood the context. You did not.

I guess I didn't. Been coaching for 20 years and I can honestly say I have never heard 40 minutes of hell used to describe any other style of play. Search "40 minutes of hell" all you got are Arkansas and Nolan Richardson references. If "40 minutes of hell" is used to describe another style of play that I don't know about I'm sorry for reading it wrong.

Shanachie
10-31-2011, 07:52 AM
I'm a little late to this thread, but here's my two cents:

Impressed by: Spangler, Dranginis

Encouraged by: Pangos, Harris

Underwhelmed by: Bell

All others more or less held serve IMO.

zag67
10-31-2011, 08:06 AM
I would like to see 40 minutes of playing as fast and hard as you can play. Play 110 percent all the time you are on the court. If tired, ask to come out and go back in when you are rested. Before this year, I do not think that we have had the depth to play this type of game. In many of the previous years we would have it at one or two positions, but not a complete team. THis is a team that I think is 2 or more deep at every position. Some teams might have faster players, but if you run them into the ground, then they have to rest at one end of the court or the other (usually when they play defense). But I just want to see the games start, so we can have the fun of watching them play.

jim77
10-31-2011, 08:39 AM
I was most impressed by the team playing all out and wearing down the opponent. 40 minutes of h&ll for the opponents night in and night out will go a long way towards covering up our lack of experience. I hope we see more of it as the season progresses.

Agreed....we absolutely smothered them.

We don't have a lot of experience at the PG but, I like our guys. The one thing I did notice was our PG to Big man passes need improving. In fact, I think the PG to Rob passes are gettingg too obvious. We might want to try using a couple of passes to get it inside instead of going in directly. We need a little help from a good passing F..KO..Spangler....ETC.

rennis
10-31-2011, 12:07 PM
I never saw Dan Dickau as a freshman, but let's cut the Dickau/Pangos comparisons out until he's a junior. He's got a long ways to go.

I don't think ANYONE saw Dickau play as a Freshman! As he was a Husky, played for Bender, and they were on TV less than the Seattle Sonics these days...

:laugh:

I love first impression threads, but if I was a moderator of this forum I wouldn't let you guys speculate on Final Four appearances until mid-December at the soonest.

:p

sonuvazag
10-31-2011, 12:30 PM
I don't think ANYONE saw Dickau play as a Freshman! As he was a Husky, played for Bender, and they were on TV less than the Seattle Sonics these days...

:laugh:

I love first impression threads, but if I was a moderator of this forum I wouldn't let you guys speculate on Final Four appearances until mid-December at the soonest.

:p
Coincidentally, there is a regular poster from the Seattle area who had watched Dickau. I want to say Manyard, but I don't remember.

rennis
10-31-2011, 12:58 PM
Coincidentally, there is a regular poster from the Seattle area who had watched Dickau. I want to say Manyard, but I don't remember.

As long as Maynard isn't a pseudonym for that "Montlake" guy, I'm cool with this.

haha

sonuvazag
10-31-2011, 01:06 PM
http://guboards.com/showthread.php?p=690683&highlight=dickau+freshman#post690683
haha i had to look it up.

maynard g krebs
10-31-2011, 01:09 PM
I don't think ANYONE saw Dickau play as a Freshman! As he was a Husky, played for Bender, and they were on TV less than the Seattle Sonics these days...

:p

They play in Seattle, and due to the fact that I live 20 minutes away, and the fact that general admission tickets were 6 bucks that year, I bought a season ticket and saw every one of Dickau's home games. I did so solely based on his performance in their exh. game against a Russian traveling team. They were on tv several times also-I'd guess half a dozen,maybe only 3-4, memory isn't that great- plus 3 in the NCAA's.

After the sweet 16 they raised prices, so I just went to the better games the next year, then stopped going when Dan got hurt.

I have no reason to make anything up. But you're almost right. Until late in the season, you could just about sit courtside and stretch out with a cheap ticket.

rennis
10-31-2011, 02:00 PM
I yearn for the days when the Huskies suck and are irrelevant in college basketball. I miss the days when the Seattle news outlets looked East to the Twin Towers on Boone for basketball headlines. Here's to hoping those days soon return.

:beer:

ZagsGoZags
11-01-2011, 12:29 AM
We have the guns and energy to keep an upbeat tempo all game, sometimes wearing down teams who do not have depth

we don't need to do full court press for that

Zag79
11-01-2011, 12:41 AM
I'm a little late to this thread, but here's my two cents:

Impressed by: Spangler, Dranginis

Encouraged by: Pangos, Harris

Underwhelmed by: Bell

All others more or less held serve IMO.

this +1... spangler looked great, a true banger that gave me flashbacks of violette. rebounds and finishes very well. dranginis was full of energy and seemed to be above average in many stat lines. pangos looks like he could start in a matter of time, love his ability to knock down the open three! he will make his defender work to keep him from scoring inside and outside, has good handles and will do big things before hes done. bell hasnt shown me much either, but he is simply too good to even worry about. once he calms down and plays within himself the road to being one of the best zags ever will begin. elias was a player i was really interested in watching, i wanted to see if he was healthy and had his spring back. yes, and yes. harris looked great, very strong and his athleticism was obvious. funny how being healthy can turn you into a force again. ;) carter and sacre looked great in the minutes they got, i love how both guys seem to ooze swag and leadership qualities. the chemistry the team has is off the chart, they are making the mixing of young and old seem effortless. cant wait to see it unfold, we are in for a special season!

JPtheBeasta
11-01-2011, 07:51 AM
We have the guns and energy to keep an upbeat tempo all game, sometimes wearing down teams who do not have depth

we don't need to do full court press for that

+1. The defensive pressure extended past the 3-point line is a good change of pace and can be very disruptive, especially against bad/slow ball handlers. Having our bigs pressure the inbounds pass at full court when the opposing big takes the ball out is another way to be disruptive (a la Spangler in the exhibition game, who easily beat his man back on d when it was all said and done).

LongIslandZagFan
11-01-2011, 08:10 AM
MHO.... Any speculation on this team is TBD... Need to see them against D1 opponents in a real game setting. Just saying.

Hey my sons soccer team looked awesome... Unbeatable... The first game of the season... They have lost every game since... Getting pounded in many games... Level of competition matters folks... Let's revisit this thread in about 3-4 weeks.