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Baldwinzag
10-26-2011, 09:04 AM
That Olynyk is going to be withheld from the exhibition game, not b/c he hit his head(he's back at practice), but because he may, indeed, RED-SHIRT. :eek: :confused:

This coming from the closest source to KO you could imagine...

I never believed this rumor had any merit until I was told this today. He's seriously considering the option. No need for a pointless debate, just saying it has real traction.

Mods -- please delete if too revealing or too soon. Don't want to give WSU a leg up on the competition;).

krozman
10-26-2011, 09:08 AM
This coming from the closest source to KO you could imagine...

.

So Mark Few told you.

hooter73
10-26-2011, 09:14 AM
After watching the K in the K I would be all for both the possibles Redshirting.

Baldwinzag
10-26-2011, 09:15 AM
So Mark Few told you.

No...

In all fairness, the decision is solely up to Olynyk, no one else.

The Coaches can offer suggestions, but it ends there.

The source I was referring to is with KO on an everyday basis...most will know whom I am referring to based on my previous confirmed posts.

Take it fwiw.

I understand many strongly oppose this notion and can't conceive this is a real possibility, but I assure you, it is...

rennis
10-26-2011, 09:21 AM
Best outcome possible. Remember when Jeremy Eaton red-shirted as a Senior in 1998...

04ZagFan
10-26-2011, 09:41 AM
Am I correct to assume that Spangler will NOT red shirt then? That means the staff believes he is more ready than what we saw at Kraziness in the Kennel then, yes?

I'm OK with this. We are overloaded with talent IMO. Staggering the talent is a great idea.

NEC26
10-26-2011, 09:49 AM
I think this would work out the best for both parties as well. Kelly has a year to fill out get stronger and work on his skills which are already good and he would get far more playing time next year than this one.
It gives Spangler a chance to get his feet wet this year and give some spot minutes that Kelly would have been getting (say 12 minutes a game).
Next year we will have three bigs(Sam, Ryan, Kelly) that will be ready to play and have plenty of minutes to go around.

CDC84
10-26-2011, 09:54 AM
As I have been saying all along, the 4th big man in the rotation isn't going to be seeing tons of minutes....but they still need to have a 4th big man available in case there is an injury and such. The main rotation is going to be Sacre, Harris and Dower. The rest is table scraps. Spangler is not going to be pressured into making major contributions, but he's talented and mature enough to go in there, battle for rebounds, absorb some fouls and maybe do a little scoring.

DCZag
10-26-2011, 10:00 AM
Hmmmmm....seems like everything is starting to become more clear. I had completely put the KO redshirt conversation out of my mind as pure speculation...

soccerdud
10-26-2011, 10:01 AM
i am for it as well, however for me it isn't because of ANY negative toward kelly, be it strength, banging, etc... i'd start him right now and feel damn good about it if it weren't for the logjam at the position. the truth is that all four of sacre, harris, dower, and olynyk will have the option of playing pro ball after their days at GU are done, but the only one with a real option to defer a season is kelly.

i would rather trade a year of kelly being a rotation player for a year of kelly being a starter/heavy minutes player. i won't pretend to know what's best for kelly, but as a fan of both him (both the player and the person) and gonzaga, i do hope this happens.

Worthington
10-26-2011, 10:04 AM
I'm all for this. KO is definitely good enough to contribute this year, hell he would be a starter for almost every other team in the country, but playing 15 minutes a game of the bench this year is a big waste of his talents. Especially when our front court is due to thin out a bunch next year with Sacre and possibly Harris gone.

Angelo Roncalli
10-26-2011, 10:08 AM
i am for it as well, however for me it isn't because of ANY negative toward kelly, be it strength, banging, etc... i'd start him right now and feel damn good about it if it weren't for the logjam at the position. the truth is that all four of sacre, harris, dower, and olynyk will have the option of playing pro ball after their days at GU are done, but the only one with a real option to defer a season is kelly.

i would rather trade a year of kelly being a rotation player for a year of kelly being a starter/heavy minutes player. i won't pretend to know what's best for kelly, but as a fan of both him (both the player and the person) and gonzaga, i do hope this happens.

+1

zagzilla
10-26-2011, 10:23 AM
Keep both Spangler and OK in reserve for future years and then if somebody gets hurt, we can always burn the shirt during the season as a fallback plan.

Can we realistically get by with 3 bigs or do we need all 4?

ZZ

jazzdelmar
10-26-2011, 10:28 AM
classy move on ko's part to even consider such a move. team first guy....

OK-ZagFan
10-26-2011, 10:30 AM
04ZagFan
I guess that is the reason they have coaches and the Zags coaches know what to look for in a player. It does not matter what yours or my opinion is or what we think and from what I understand Spangler is the only one that wasn't substituted for during the scrimmage. I wander if they did that for a reason?

VaBeachZAG
10-26-2011, 10:51 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the assumption that red-shirts could play in exhibition games, (yes/no?). I agree with everyone that it should be Olynyk's decision to red-shirt, or not. However, from a team standpoint, an Olynyk red-shirt is the best possible option. Even though Olynyk was once, in his much younger years, a guard, those days are gone. With a little more weight and a lot of "post polishing," Olynyk could be the Zags next great 7 foot center. A red-shirt year developing as a post player would certainly be a big plus for the team, and maybe for Olynyk's personal future after college as well.

Robzagnut
10-26-2011, 10:55 AM
I think this would work out the best for both parties as well. Kelly has a year to fill out get stronger and work on his skills which are already good and he would get far more playing time next year than this one.
It gives Spangler a chance to get his feet wet this year and give some spot minutes that Kelly would have been getting (say 12 minutes a game).
Next year we will have three bigs(Sam, Ryan, Kelly) that will be ready to play and have plenty of minutes to go around.

+1

And this gives Sam, Kelly and Ryan two full years of playing together.

webspinnre
10-26-2011, 10:57 AM
classy move on ko's part to even consider such a move. team first guy....

Indeed. Definitely not something you'd expect just any junior to consider.

hondo
10-26-2011, 10:58 AM
It would be a very smart move academically, a free year, KO could work toward a masters degree. What is that worth in dollars 40,000 plus? Someone here must know, but it's worth plenty.

ronh_pm
10-26-2011, 11:00 AM
classy move on ko's part to even consider such a move. team first guy....

Certainly team first...but what team, as it also opens up the possibilty of a transfer.

Just saying,

JPtheBeasta
10-26-2011, 11:01 AM
classy move on ko's part to even consider such a move. team first guy....

+1. I personally think it's a great idea and not a knock on his talents at all. I would like to see how he does with extended minutes, and they just aren't there this year. What's interesting is that there was talk of him redshirting as a freshman, I believe, but I think he ended being the most game ready of those new recruits that year (Dower redshirted?). It's weird how things work out.

gamagin
10-26-2011, 11:05 AM
he's young, smart and as Hondo says, he can really take this time to not just get his legs under him, but wind up with a first class education, plus an advanced degree AND the maturity he needs to really become a star. win-win.

Angelo Roncalli
10-26-2011, 11:05 AM
Certainly team first...but what team, as it also opens up the possibilty of a transfer.

Just saying,

He's enrolled this year. If he transferred he'd have to sit out a year, leaving him with only 1 year to play under the 4 in 5 rule.

ronh_pm
10-26-2011, 11:08 AM
He's enrolled this year. If he transferred he'd have to sit out a year, leaving him with only 1 year to play under the 4 in 5 rule.

That is good news. I'd hate to see him take his talents elsewhere.

Baldwinzag
10-26-2011, 11:09 AM
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was under the assumption that red-shirts could play in exhibition games, (yes/no?).

Yes & no.

If a player is planning to utilize a red-shirt year, only true Freshman are allowed to play in the exhibition contests and still RS.

This is precisely the reason Notre Dame's Tim Abromaitis is forced to sit out the first 4 games(story (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2011/10/notre-dame-forward-tim-abromaitis-to-miss-first-four-games/1)).

NEC26
10-26-2011, 11:09 AM
Certainly team first...but what team, as it also opens up the possibilty of a transfer.

Just saying,

Like who exactly? All the bigs will be getting plenty of playing time this way. Not sure why this would cause anyone to transfer.

bullzag23
10-26-2011, 11:10 AM
It would be a very smart move academically, a free year, KO could work toward a masters degree. What is that worth in dollars 40,000 plus? Someone here must know, but it's worth plenty.

If he can complete his Master's during that 1 year the 40k should cover it....would have more than covered mine :doh:

Baldwinzag
10-26-2011, 11:12 AM
When Mr. Meehan asked KO about the possibility of a red-shirt year, he responded by saying:


“I haven’t really thought about it too much, I’m practicing like I'm going to play,” he said. “When the time comes to make a decision, we'll make a decision. The (coaches) have been really good about it. We'll get together soon and see what they're thinking, what I'm thinking and what's best for the team.”

hooter73
10-26-2011, 11:12 AM
Getting Spanglers feet wet with 8-10mpg while KO does his thing RSing is a good deal for everybody. Good move... if it plays out this way.

jim77
10-26-2011, 11:28 AM
The fella has some serious skills for a guy his size. Once he fully grows into his skill set he's gonna be a serious force...NOWITSKISH. That extra year to allow his body to grow into his skill set would certainly boost his potential draft prospects.....and an extra free year of school ta boot. He could end up being our main offensive weapon the next couple of years. If Kelly is not gonna get serious minutes than it is not worth burning a year of eligibility....an extra year could be huge for the kid's future. I love watching him play and will miss that but, once he maximizes his physical skills he's gonna be DOMINANT. A big man with guard skillset.....YIKES!.

jazzdelmar
10-26-2011, 11:32 AM
smart move for ko 2 ways -- on the court and in the classroom. a top notch student, he will come away with a grad degree or a leg up on a law degree on the house and another year in a great atmosphere......still, classy.

Martin Centre Mad Man
10-26-2011, 11:45 AM
I think that this move will be good for the long-term health of the program. Kelly is a very good player who would start for 300 or more of the 350 teams in Div I ball. He deserves more playing time than he is likely to get during the 2011-2012 season. There is simply too much depth at the 4/5 positions at the moment. He will get far more playing time as a fifth-year senior after Harris and Sacre move on.

I also think that the extra year in the weight room will be good for this kid. He still looks like he hasn't totally mastered playing ball in his larger body. Just taking a year to get stronger and more used to "playing big" will be a tremendous benefit for him as a player. His contributions to the Gonzaga program will be better during that fifth year than they would have been in this coming season. I'll bet that this kid will be a dominant force in a couple of years.

maynard g krebs
10-26-2011, 12:10 PM
I think that this move will be good for the long-term health of the program. Kelly is a very good player who would start for 300 or more of the 350 teams in Div I ball. He deserves more playing time than he is likely to get during the 2011-2012 season. There is simply too much depth at the 4/5 positions at the moment. He will get far more playing time as a fifth-year senior after Harris and Sacre move on.

I also think that the extra year in the weight room will be good for this kid. He still looks like he hasn't totally mastered playing ball in his larger body. Just taking a year to get stronger and more used to "playing big" will be a tremendous benefit for him as a player. His contributions to the Gonzaga program will be better during that fifth year than they would have been in this coming season. I'll bet that this kid will be a dominant force in a couple of years.

Well said. With his late growth spurt, he's physically younger than most 20 yr olds. In 2 yrs he'll be finishing everything around the basket, and will probably gain a little more quickness as he gets stronger. Great move on KO's part if true, both for him and the team.

djdallaszag
10-26-2011, 12:14 PM
Wow, this would greatly improve an already outstanding 2013-14 team! I'm sure KO has considered that. Not too hard to imagine playing in the FF.

kitzbuel
10-26-2011, 12:23 PM
FWIW, I believe any of the players can play in the exhibition game and still be able to redshirt.

EuroZag2010
10-26-2011, 12:24 PM
If he can complete his Master's during that 1 year the 40k should cover it....would have more than covered mine :doh:

Its actually about 32,000 For undergrads

Zig-Zag
10-26-2011, 12:30 PM
Kelly's dad is very intelligent well ground with Kelly's interest completely in mind and his #1 advisor on dicision, wish all players had similar advisor.

WyoZag
10-26-2011, 12:31 PM
FWIW, I believe any of the players can play in the exhibition game and still be able to redshirt.

Not true. Only freshmen can play in exhibition games and still redshirt. Notre Dame's Tim Abromaitis will watch the first four games this season because he played in two exhibition games his sophomore year and then redshirted.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36530/tim-abromaitis-ncaa-avoid-disaster

WILLYMCG
10-26-2011, 12:38 PM
i am for it as well, however for me it isn't because of ANY negative toward kelly, be it strength, banging, etc... i'd start him right now and feel damn good about it if it weren't for the logjam at the position. the truth is that all four of sacre, harris, dower, and olynyk will have the option of playing pro ball after their days at GU are done, but the only one with a real option to defer a season is kelly.

i would rather trade a year of kelly being a rotation player for a year of kelly being a starter/heavy minutes player. i won't pretend to know what's best for kelly, but as a fan of both him (both the player and the person) and gonzaga, i do hope this happens.
Not bad, I can see Kelly as a future Zag star with great supporting cast, have a pro career and probably have a Masters/Law degree to boot. Nice path forward.

04ZagFan
10-26-2011, 12:57 PM
04ZagFan
I guess that is the reason they have coaches and the Zags coaches know what to look for in a player. It does not matter what yours or my opinion is or what we think and from what I understand Spangler is the only one that wasn't substituted for during the scrimmage. I wander if they did that for a reason?

And I fully trust the coaches. If they say Spangler is ready, I trust them.. He wasn't impressive at the scrimmage, and because the coaches are willing to red shirt KO and go with Spangler as the 2nd big off the bench, I'm assuming there was a reason he struggled in the scrimmage, and it wasn't a good indicator of the player he will be this season. I wasn't knocking Spangler.

Also refreshing to see Kelly "take one for the team." We've had a lot of guys leave the team recently simply because they didn't seem to want to work for their minutes. I'm seeing that the guys on this 2011-2012 team are hard workers all willing to put time and effort in. GREAT news.

BULLDOG#1
10-26-2011, 01:50 PM
redshirt Spangler.

If KO redshirts, this year's team will suffer a lot. His all-around game will be needed this year, especially if Harris doesn't return to form.

Unlike most on this board, I think there will be ample minutes for KO this year.

kitzbuel
10-26-2011, 01:51 PM
Not true. Only freshmen can play in exhibition games and still redshirt. Notre Dame's Tim Abromaitis will watch the first four games this season because he played in two exhibition games his sophomore year and then redshirted.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/36530/tim-abromaitis-ncaa-avoid-disaster

OK, that explains Dower's play against Alberta the year before last, the example I had in mind.

Baldwinzag
10-26-2011, 02:00 PM
If KO redshirts, this year's team will suffer a lot.

Hold your horses Nostradamus, KO red-shirting isn't written in stone. They are only considering the possibility given the exhibition game is only 2 days away. IF KO decides to RS, he will be unable to play vs Carroll College. Only Freshman can log mins and still RS w/o penalty. Keep in mind, he can elect to burn a redshirt at any time during the season.

americasteam
10-26-2011, 02:58 PM
Somebody probably already said this, but...

Hold out Kelly for the exhibition game. Make sure and get Spangler plenty of minutes. If he struggles....rethink the redshirt for Kelly. What's the harm? He'll only have missed a game.

If Spangler does awesome, then looks like he can handle being the 4th big, and save Kelly's year for next year.

At least it gives the coaches a look at Spangler against live competition, to make the decision.

Also, I know someone also said that bottom line, if need be, Kelly can always end up playing, if the early season doesn't go well with Spangler as the 4th big.

kclubfounder
10-26-2011, 03:36 PM
I agree completely that Kelly is a team player. However, if this happens, and I hope it does, it is because Kelly and his adviser(s) (probably referred to by Kelly as 'Dad') believe it is the best move for Kelly.

Vanzagger
10-26-2011, 05:33 PM
redshirt Spangler.

If KO redshirts, this year's team will suffer a lot. His all-around game will be needed this year, especially if Harris doesn't return to form.

Unlike most on this board, I think there will be ample minutes for KO this year.


I agree with you 100%. Sacre and Harris want to win it all this year. To do this we need our best players on the court.

It is selfish to try and extend the streak by redshirting guys who would start for other top 20 programs.

04ZagFan
10-26-2011, 06:08 PM
I agree with you 100%. Sacre and Harris want to win it all this year. To do this we need our best players on the court.

It is selfish to try and extend the streak by redshirting guys who would start for other top 20 programs.

I don't see Kelly starting for any top 20 programs..... He could greatly benefit from a red shirt year... Weird that so many people watch games and see such different things.

Therunner
10-26-2011, 06:13 PM
Its been said countless times in this thread, but the board must be reminded, its up to the players if they red-shirt.

Our Coaches offer guidance & helpful suggestions, but that's the end of it...if a player doesn't wish or think they should RS, then they won't, easy as that -- see Will Foster his Frosh year.

Vanzagger
10-26-2011, 06:18 PM
Not too many 7 ft kids with guard skills. Did KO start for us last year? We must be a top 21 program.

04ZagFan
10-26-2011, 06:26 PM
Not too many 7 ft kids with guard skills. Did KO start for us last year? We must be a top 21 program.

He started like, what, 3 games? He doesn't really have guard skills... He can shoot it, that's about it. He's 7 feet tall, he needs to play like it.

TheBunnieRancher
10-26-2011, 06:47 PM
My impression of Kelly is he is a team player who sublimates his game for the good of the team. His stats per minute are usually among the best on the team, yet he never seems to produce like we expect him to produce. He has a knack for coming up big in key moments of critical games, but does not do so consistently. I believe a lot of this is because he chooses a complimentary role because that is what the team needs. When Team Canada has played him major minutes, he has produced against pros. He will not get major minutes while Sacre and Harris stand in front of him in the rotation. There are just not enough minutes to go around. He will not produce big time until he gets major minutes and at this point in his career he should be producing, thus the temptation to redshirt. I believe Kelly will grow exponentially once he is a starter and plays starter's minutes.

BULLDOG#1
10-26-2011, 06:51 PM
04ZagFan: funny you should mention how differently people see the games. Clearly the two of us disagree on KO. i do believe he could start for a top 20 team, including ours.

So what, do we redshirt KO and play Spangler here and there? Do you really think that makes this years team better? I do not. Big Rob has put his time in and deserves to have the best team forward for his sr. year.

KO has some deficiencies, true, but he brings a heck of a lot to the table... especially a skill set that most seven footers do not have. Did you watch the Baylor game last year? Or the highlights of KO against Argentina playing for Canada? Those weren't the second tier international players Edi played, they were the likes of Ginobili, Scala, and the like. Would Spangler faired as well?

Yeah, he's was a step slow on the helpside last year. I was ready to throw the remote at the TV (just like most zag fans) when he was late to rebounds... But, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater...

Do we know that he's not made strides on the quickness level already? Are we to assume that he hasn't and that he suddenly will with a redshirt year? I don't think so. I say it's now or never for the kid. Either he has the goods or he doesn't. Putting him on the shelf in hopes that it will change between now and a year from now is a mistake.

Jedster
10-26-2011, 07:06 PM
We can debate until the cows come home what's best for the program, for Rob and etc.... However, as has been stated a few times, it is Kelly's decision to make. If Kelly is like most people, the predominant reason he would redshirt would be that it would be in HIS best interest, followed secondarily by what is best for the team. It is probably safe to assume that Sam is definitely the first big off the bench as he is the more talented scorer at this point, which is probably what the coaches want in that player. This isn't a diss at all on Kelly but Sam is definitely very talented in his own right and currently fits that role. So, that leaves being the fourth big, which would be about 5-10 minutes a night of PT.

So, you weigh two options: playing 5-10 minutes/game this year and then bigger minutes next year versus redshirt this year and then playing big minutes the next two years. I would think most in that situation would pick the second option. Won't be easy as the competitive tug to play will be there as well as wanting to contribute.

Just my two cents....

NotoriousZ
10-26-2011, 07:12 PM
But BULLDOG#1, how many minutes will he get behind Sacre, Harris, and Dower? Not a whole lot. And yes, an extra year could help Kelly fill out that 7 foot frame and pay huge dividends for him and the Zags in the following years.

And do we really need a big with guard skills? It would be nice, but I think we should let the guards be the guards this year. I think we've got a few that can do the job.

I'm betting that after the Carroll College game we'll see that Spangler should be more than fine as our 4th big this season. If not, then you can say this move would be a mistake.

BULLDOG#1
10-26-2011, 07:13 PM
Jedster: against plenty of opponents, KO would be first big off the bench. Sam brings different things than KO. If a team is packing a zone in tight, KO would be much more effective than big Sam... As effective as Sam is scoring on the block, KO gives a lot more passing out of zone traps and high to low post entry passes. Harris will have more options to score with KO in the game vs SD.

BULLDOG#1
10-26-2011, 07:15 PM
and yes, NotZ, I do believe this team needs a big man with skills outside the block.

Malastein
10-26-2011, 07:40 PM
and yes, NotZ, I do believe this team needs a big man with skills outside the block.

And his name is Guy Landry Edi. KO will immensely benefit from a year working on his post skills. Could end up putting himself into a position to be a first round pick because of this decision. I think is the bet decision for all involved, and he could still end up playing as injury insurance if something unfortunate happens. A year practicing against Sacre, Harris, Dower, and Spangler will really amp up Olynk's abilities to the point where he'll become able to play center. I don't see the downside to this.

zag67
10-26-2011, 07:58 PM
By the way I agree with Mal.

So Bulldog, question. You have 80 minutes for the bigs. With Sacre, Harris, Dower, and KO, how would you split the minutes? I would assume 25 to 30 for both Sacre and Harris. That would leave about 20 to 30 minutes for Dower and KO. That would be 10 to 15 each. I do not think that is enough.

Now if you use them for Spangler and Dower, you can bring Spangler along slowly, but get D1 experience. Use maybe 20 for dower and 10 Spangler (many games more).

By the way, I am pro KO and want to see him playing 20 to 30 minutes. But this year I think that Harris and Sacre are going to eat up a majority of the minutes. I believe that from what we have heard about what they have been working on during the off season. I think that the following year, you will see that and he will shine.

Jedster
10-26-2011, 08:00 PM
Bulldog #1: Perhaps I should rephrase....instead of saying first off the bench, we should look at who will play the most off the bench. If you look at the schedule from the start of our 2nd run through the WCC (Portland on Feb 3) through both tournaments, Sam held a considerable edge in minutes of 205-118. Over the course of those 12 games ( I left out the CS-Bakersfield game though they both played 20 min), Sam averaged just a hair over 17 minutes a game (versus his season average of 14.1), while KO averaged an 9.8 minutes a game (versus his season average of 13.5). Statistically, it's pretty clear that as the season went on, Sam was playing more and more, and KO less and less. I don't have any reason to think this would change this year. Sam will play the majority of the minutes off the bench and leave only 5-10 minutes a game for the 4th big. Based on this, not sure why you would say KO would be the first big off the bench in many games when the reality is Sam has been.

Also, your rationale about teams packing in the zone on us and KO being more effective, stats also don't seem to bear that out. Yes, KO leads in assists, but also leads significantly in TO's with less playing time. IMO, this year's Zags team will be tougher to play against and see less "packing in" as we will have more of an outside game with players able to hit the 3 and teams having to guard all 5 players.

Regardless, it still boils down to what KO thinks will be best for him. I see no reason to go away from my original premise that KO would expect to play 5-10 min/game this year and much more next year, while weighing that against a RS year and bigger minutes for two years.

04ZagFan
10-26-2011, 09:20 PM
04ZagFan: funny you should mention how differently people see the games. Clearly the two of us disagree on KO. i do believe he could start for a top 20 team, including ours.

So what, do we redshirt KO and play Spangler here and there? Do you really think that makes this years team better? I do not. Big Rob has put his time in and deserves to have the best team forward for his sr. year.

KO has some deficiencies, true, but he brings a heck of a lot to the table... especially a skill set that most seven footers do not have. Did you watch the Baylor game last year? Or the highlights of KO against Argentina playing for Canada? Those weren't the second tier international players Edi played, they were the likes of Ginobili, Scala, and the like. Would Spangler faired as well?

Yeah, he's was a step slow on the helpside last year. I was ready to throw the remote at the TV (just like most zag fans) when he was late to rebounds... But, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater...

Do we know that he's not made strides on the quickness level already? Are we to assume that he hasn't and that he suddenly will with a redshirt year? I don't think so. I say it's now or never for the kid. Either he has the goods or he doesn't. Putting him on the shelf in hopes that it will change between now and a year from now is a mistake.

Are we better this year with KO in limited minutes, or Spangler? I'd say Kelly...But how good does a front court of JR Kelly Olynyk and JR Sam Dower sound? Sounds great to me. I don't think KO would get enough minutes to be much of a factor this year, so it would be beneficial to the program and himself to sit out a year... But let me make it clear, I'll be fine if he doesn't red shirt, fine if he does. I don't really have a big preference, just that a red shirt would be nice for both parties.

Yes, he had a big shot against Baylor, and a big shot against Memphis.. But those are the two memorable things he did. He really struggled last year in several parts of the game that don't necessarily show up in the box score.

nonzagzag
10-26-2011, 09:36 PM
well redshirting turned out pretty well for Sacre - at the time there was debate about whether he should burn the redshirt and play in March or not....

Vanzagger
10-26-2011, 10:01 PM
got to go with Bulldog on this one. KO 20+/game.

BULLDOG#1
10-26-2011, 10:09 PM
clearly I'm in the minority here. I cannot really completely disagree with anything you've all mentioned here... and yet, I do disagree a little with a lot of it...

I wouldn't really count Edi as a big. I don't really think the 'minute pool' is accurately pointed out here. Sacre's redshirt was completely different... Yadda yadda.

look, you are all 'mostly' right with all that you've said - -we just disagree on the value that KO would bring to the team THIS year. It's funny how we can all post about how Rob, E, and Sam are all going to have impoved over the summer, but not one person thinks that KO has -- even though he played killer competition while representing his country.

IF KO does NOT redshirt, I believe there will be wins this year that would have been losses without him. Why take that away from a great team this year so as to stack a team next year... I respect that makes sense to some of you, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Redshirt Spangler and let KO find his way with this team. If that's only 5 minutes a game, then he's not getting it done. If it's 18 minutes a game, then clearly he is... And if we're all so concerned about the future, why waist a year of Spanglers with next to no minutes?

ZagsGoZags
10-27-2011, 12:44 AM
nobody is a bigger fan of KO than I am
see previous posts on this if you don't think so
like others on here, I think he still looks like a puppy dog in motion, a German Shepherd one yr old with big bones, and muscle and coordination not yet a match

I think he'll get quicker with a red shirt year, and it worked well for Sam and Sacre who both took their turn at red shirt years

I hope he and the coaches play him at the 4, not 5, because of his ball handling skills, I think he is of more value in NBA as 4 not 5, even a three if he could get quicker on defense and stronger on driving with the ball

jim77
10-27-2011, 01:32 AM
nobody is a bigger fan of KO than I am
see previous posts on this if you don't think so
like others on here, I think he still looks like a puppy dog in motion, a German Shepherd one yr old with big bones, and muscle and coordination not yet a match

I think he'll get quicker with a red shirt year, and it worked well for Sam and Sacre who both took their turn at red shirt years

I hope he and the coaches play him at the 4, not 5, because of his ball handling skills, I think he is of more value in NBA as 4 not 5, even a three if he could get quicker on defense and stronger on driving with the ball

Agreed

I don't think KO should ever be a 5....unless theres foul trouble. The guy has the skill set of a 4. The guy has the instincts and IQ right now...he's just physically a shade behind. I'lll be happy either way and don't want to see him sit out half the year then the redshirt burned because of an injury. Its all or nothing. Deep down I want to see him play this year because I think this year's team will be better than next year's team.....with Rob and probably Elias gone. Tough call.

kitzbuel
10-27-2011, 05:04 AM
... KO will immensely benefit from a year working on his post skills. Could end up putting himself into a position to be a first round pick because of this decision. I think is the bet decision for all involved, and he could still end up playing as injury insurance if something unfortunate happens. A year practicing against Sacre, Harris, Dower, and Spangler will really amp up Olynk's abilities to the point where he'll become able to play center. I don't see the downside to this.

:agreed:

KO will get better, lots better in the future. Hopefully some of that time is spent in a Zag uni and not just the NBA.

gu03alum
10-27-2011, 05:25 AM
well redshirting turned out pretty well for Sacre - at the time there was debate about whether he should burn the redshirt and play in March or not....

The redshirt may have helped Sacre, but it hurt the team. It forced Josh and Austin to play out of position the rest of the year. A lineup of Pargo, Bouldin, Daye, Josh, and Sacre makes me salivate just thinking about it.

BULLDOG#1
10-27-2011, 05:51 AM
this thread has become confusing to me.

Is the consensus that KO is a 'shade slow' but has pro-level skills (for his height)?

Either he's too slow, or not. I just don't see how he's going to go from a 'puppy dog in motion' to a star from a redshirt junior season off, when he didn't (we assume) from his soph to junior year.

When was the last time any of us 'really' saw him play? To me, it's less of an imagination stretch that he might have grown into his body while playing for the national team against NBA level talent last summer than it is to think that he'll have a miracle development my redshirting.

I can't think of any NBA player who (non-medical) redshirted his junior year.

Either way, I still think THIS is the year for talent to merge together on this team. Why not throw your best available out there and see where it goes? KO can and should be helping this team this year.

The coaches know more than I do and I'm sure they'll work with KO and make the best decision. I wouldn't redshirt him, but I'm not a coach. You all have some pretty valid points. Let's just hope whatever the decision is that this year's team fulfills the promise.

Zagcity
10-27-2011, 06:07 AM
The coaches know more than I do and I'm sure they'll work with KO and make the best decision. I wouldn't redshirt him, but I'm not a coach. You all have some pretty valid points. Let's just hope whatever the decision is that this year's team fulfills the promise.

Time will tell.

GoZags
10-27-2011, 06:22 AM
The redshirt may have helped Sacre, but it hurt the team. It forced Josh and Austin to play out of position the rest of the year. A lineup of Pargo, Bouldin, Daye, Josh, and Sacre makes me salivate just thinking about it.

So, you think he should have played through the broken foot? Or he should have come back for the NCAA tournament after missing 3 plus months?

Of course it helped Sacre. It helped him heal his broken foot.

bigblahla
10-27-2011, 06:30 AM
If KO has not changed his defensive mentality, spreading out, lowering his center of gravity moving his feet laterally, he will be just as foul prone as last season and quickly find himself back on the bench. ( The short leash syndrome.)

To me it's more about his ability to stay on the floor once he's there not just getting PT. This is a skill he has yet to control and has nothing to do with his offensive prowess.

Like most bigs He plays tall on D making it easy to get to his body and once there an offensive player can out quick him leading to the lunging out of position fouls he picks up.

A year just working on defensive positioning and rebounding could make him scary with the skill set he already has.

Either way glad he's a Zag.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

TheGonzagaFactor
10-27-2011, 07:07 AM
So, you think he should have played through the broken foot? Or he should have come back for the NCAA tournament after missing 3 plus months?

Of course it helped Sacre. It helped him heal his broken foot.

That's what I thought.. yes the team was hurt by his loss but a broken foot is awfully tough to play through.

75Zag
10-27-2011, 07:36 AM
I lack the emotional investment of most of you, but my 2 cents is that to date, KO is a somewhat typical "project" for GU. Tall but not great skills. We have seen similar project players come and go since the '70s, maybe longer. I can go either way with him. Either he plays this year and continues to move through the GU system like a pig through a python, or he takes a year off with a redshirt and maybe - perhaps - possibly picks up enough improved basketball skills to make him a noteworthy NCAA player over the remaining years of his elegibility. Either way I really doubt he is going to strike fear into the low block players at KY, KU, UNC, Pitt, Duke, etc. and I will bet you "dollars to doughnuts" (as my retired partner used to say) that KO will NOT play in the NBA.

Go Bulldogs! Get Bigger!

Zag Man
10-27-2011, 07:50 AM
nobody is a bigger fan of KO than I am
see previous posts on this if you don't think so
like others on here, I think he still looks like a puppy dog in motion, a German Shepherd one yr old with big bones, and muscle and coordination not yet a match

I think he'll get quicker with a red shirt year, and it worked well for Sam and Sacre who both took their turn at red shirt years

I hope he and the coaches play him at the 4, not 5, because of his ball handling skills, I think he is of more value in NBA as 4 not 5, even a three if he could get quicker on defense and stronger on driving with the ball

I have been a Kelly Olynk fan from the very first time I saw him enter a Gonzaga basketball game. I think the young man is a terrific basketball player and person. I loved the fact that he participated in the school drama program with the urging of Steven Gray. I believe that shows how dedicated he is to being a student/athlete and his commitment to the university.

Kelly’s major problem IMO has been his transition to his increased height. He’s grown a lot since he entered the program and he hasn’t got use to his new body. He’s taller than Rob now and will become a versatile impact player once he adapts to his new physique. If he decides to red-shirt, I see that as a positive thing for him, because he would come back bigger and stronger next year and he would get major minutes on the floor. He and Sam would dominant teams and they would both have the luxury of the freshman guards with a year under their belt. If Pangos lives up to his hype, he will drive opponents nuts with assists to KO and Sam. Additionally, GBJ will be much more relaxed and shooting with confidence. Both KO and Sam would be red-shirt juniors and I could not see a better pair of “bigs” in the WCC or anywhere else in the country, to tell you the truth!

cjm720
10-27-2011, 07:58 AM
Either way everyone benefits IMO.

BUT this is such a strange transgression. He went from a likely redshift candidate as a frosh to the first person off the bench in his first game to a RS year as a junior.

It makes me wonder if we will see history repeat itself re Spangler...prob not, different players and circumstances.

Baldwinzag
10-27-2011, 08:06 AM
If he decides to utilize a RS year, KO is on track to complete his Masters Degree by the end of his Senior year. Pretty nice incentive in itself.

Also, I'll mention Olynyk's closest chum/best friend is by far, Sam Dower. They've been roomies for the past two years and literally spend all their free time together. Heck, the two of them have "sushi night" on the town once a week.

In addition to what posters have said, another interesting concept is if he elected to save a year, KO and Sam would both be "Juniors" next season...something to consider, especially when talking about uber-close college buddies. This kinda thing can go a long way...

Just take a sec and listen to what Kelly Olynyk says he will 'take away from his Gonzaga experience' in this video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKvPcT8-ozA). At the :50 second mark.

mgadfly
10-27-2011, 08:17 AM
So, you think he should have played through the broken foot? Or he should have come back for the NCAA tournament after missing 3 plus months?

Of course it helped Sacre. It helped him heal his broken foot.

Someone else compared Sacre's redshirt to this situation. I don't think anyone suggested Sacre should play through the broken foot... The question came up in late February of that year when Sacre began practicing again. At the time, Sacre would have given us the frontline player that we were lacking on a team that was loaded. We would have had Gray and Downs coming off the bench if he had returned. Even without Sacre it was our best defensive team during the run, and for most of the season we were in the top 10 in offensive efficiency.

Should a player burn a year of eligibility to play in 8 to 10 games (mostly post-season) when they are the missing piece to a championship puzzle?

Of course, no one really understood just how much better UNC was than the competition, so we still _probably_ wouldn't have had an answer for Ty Lawson. (That UNC team had four starters finish the season with an ORTG above 120... Lawson's was a gross 134).

04ZagFan
10-27-2011, 08:21 AM
People forget how Raw Rob was... The Red Shirt did wonders for him. We can salivate over the thought of him, Austin, and Josh in the same lineup all we want, but we saw it several times, and Rob only played a few minutes of the game because he was no where near ready to contribute. After the red shirt year, Rob came in and instantly become an impact player.

Kelly would clearly be behind Elias, Rob, and Sam in the rotation. The bottom line is, he's probably improved, and he does have talent, but he isn't going to get the minutes this year... I can't believe so many people are talking NBA about Kelly. Anybody care to make a wager?

gu03alum
10-27-2011, 08:25 AM
So, you think he should have played through the broken foot? Or he should have come back for the NCAA tournament after missing 3 plus months?

Of course it helped Sacre. It helped him heal his broken foot.

I never said he should have played on a broken foot. My point is that the team needed him. Regardless of whether the redshirt helped or hurt, his absence possibly cost the team some wins that year along with the development of Josh and Austin. I'm not even sure whether you can definitively say that the year off even helped his development.

It seems like a lot of people on here are always about playing for next year. I say put all of your chips on the table and see what happens. I'm not opposed to redshirts when they are medical or when the guy will not contribute to the team, but I think it's clear that Kelly can contribute to the team this year.

zag67
10-27-2011, 08:33 AM
First, like all of us have said is that the decision will be Kelly and family. I also like the way Kelly plays (now), but do feel that he is still learning how to play in a 7 foot body. The minutes are not going to be there with Robert and Harris eating up most of them. A season of practice against Robert, Harris, Spangler, Dower and Landry is going to do nothing but make him a better player at both ends of the court. And also gets him a masters that will be with him for life.

If you think about it, this will then have next year with a better spread of minutes. You will have Dower, KO and Spangler (with an average of 10 minutes (or more)) D1 experience at the 4/5. This is a team that will be high in mature playing experience at the 4/5. Then you will have Pangos, Bell, and Landry with a full year under their belts. You will have Stockon, MM and MK with another year of maturity and improving their skills. And lastly have Hart, Dranginis and Sarbaugh. That is going to be a great team for that year and following years. This also gives the coaches time to find the bigs that they want to merge into this group.

cggonzaga
10-27-2011, 08:36 AM
The funny thing about this thread is the posters suggesting that a redshirt year will allow Kelly to get better on the block like he hasn't been working on it all along. He's been in the program for 3 years now and since day 1 I'm sure the coaches have been working on this with him. I'm also sure he's put in thousands of minutes working on it himself. I don't believe him redshirting has anything to do with him having to get better on the block. Will he continue to work on that aspect of his game? Absolutely. The biggest reason he'd redshirt is for playing minutes next season. I'm sure he realizes he'd be looking at 8-10mpg this season but 25-30mpg next season. Also, all the reasons Baldwin mentioned above. I just personally feel it has very little to do with him putting in more time practicing like he hasn't been working hard all along.

Zig-Zag
10-27-2011, 09:35 AM
For team chemistry, Spangler will be satisfied with alot less minutes on the floor this year, KO won't. With year to develope and others gone he'll have 2 great years on floor and his best chance to play beyond college, not to mention 5th year for masters degree. Best for KO.:)

gamagin
10-27-2011, 09:42 AM
The funny thing about this thread is the posters suggesting that a redshirt year will allow Kelly to get better on the block like he hasn't been working on it all along. He's been in the program for 3 years now and since day 1 I'm sure the coaches have been working on this with him. I'm also sure he's put in thousands of minutes working on it himself. I don't believe him redshirting has anything to do with him having to get better on the block. Will he continue to work on that aspect of his game? Absolutely. The biggest reason he'd redshirt is for playing minutes next season. I'm sure he realizes he'd be looking at 8-10mpg this season but 25-30mpg next season. Also, all the reasons Baldwin mentioned above. I just personally feel it has very little to do with him putting in more time practicing like he hasn't been working hard all along.

whether he RS's or not. It's up to him and I respect him either way.

That said, KO has been tripping and falling and playing off balance and shooting off balance and generally getting beat off the dribble and (as a result) fouling from behind for as long as I've watched him. He's also had many brilliant games and moments.

I've seen him fall down going from the bench to the scorers table.

I've seen him take some nasty falls because he elevates off balance and this allows a smaller person to either block him or his shot, and generally neutralizes his height advantage.

This hasn't changed much in my observations. Last year, it seemed like that and what appeared to be a lack of confidence (in his play and involvement, imo) got worse.

I conclude unscientifically & without the ability to ask him directly, that he is still growing in to his legs and his height. His mind is quicker than his body. the result is he is vulnerable to injury. I do not know, but I would be willing to bet he was off balance when he got the concussion. It's an equalizer when dealing with a taller man to take him down. IF KO was in position, feet spread and body balanced, no one could knock him down. Absent this, he's always landing on the floor.

So, taking a year to adjust to this vs. risking further injuries or complications associated with getting his body in sync with his game, seems like a good idea now that he is thinking about it, too.

Leg strengthening, working on his balance, toughening up and learning how to be a big, maturing (he IS a young man) and learning what a 7 footer can and cannot do, seems much more important than trying to do all this on the fly.

If I were a parent, or close to him, this is what I would recommend. Time is on his side. Take it and capitalize on it.

U Zig, I Zag
10-27-2011, 10:39 AM
If he redshirts it will be because he has been surpassed in value (relative to this year's team, not saying anyone is better or worse) by another player AND he is weighing burning a year with fewer minutes (BUT with the chance to earn more as the season goes on) against pretty much knowing that he will see more minutes the following year.

I think Drag and Spangler RS and KO plays.

awberke
10-27-2011, 11:03 AM
Whether he does or he doesn't, i really like kelly's style of play. People seems to bash him on here for not being a prototypical center (what he should be for his size).

His numbers are very good for the minutes he played, personally i just think he hasn't gotten the minutes he deserves because he's a defensive liability at his position.

I think RS should RS.

04ZagFan
10-27-2011, 11:52 AM
The funny thing about this thread is the posters suggesting that a redshirt year will allow Kelly to get better on the block like he hasn't been working on it all along. He's been in the program for 3 years now and since day 1 I'm sure the coaches have been working on this with him. I'm also sure he's put in thousands of minutes working on it himself. I don't believe him redshirting has anything to do with him having to get better on the block. Will he continue to work on that aspect of his game? Absolutely. The biggest reason he'd redshirt is for playing minutes next season. I'm sure he realizes he'd be looking at 8-10mpg this season but 25-30mpg next season. Also, all the reasons Baldwin mentioned above. I just personally feel it has very little to do with him putting in more time practicing like he hasn't been working hard all along.

You're right, and IMO that's a GREAT reason to red shirt.. Both parties win. KO gets significant time as a junior AND senior, instead of just as a senior.

ronh_pm
10-27-2011, 01:12 PM
As far as I know the idea in any single season is to put a team on the floor that will win as many games as possible.

The coaches must feel that what Spangler brings is as good or better than what they will lose in K.O this year.

Red shirting K.O. does give the Zags a perhaps bigger, stronger more developed K.O. next year and a perhaps a big man in two years from now but I doubt that the coaches would give up a very known commodity they have in the present for an unknown commodity in the future.

Asking K.O to redshirt says to me that Spangler is expected to be very good right away as he has to at least bring to the floor what K.O. would

cggonzaga
10-27-2011, 01:30 PM
Asking K.O to redshirt says to me that Spangler is expected to be very good right away as he has to at least bring to the floor what K.O. would


Personally, I don't read it that way at all. The 4th big is going to be getting very minimal minutes this season. Between Rob, E, Sam, Hart, Landry and Spangler there just isn't many minutes. Rob, E and Sam will be playing 20-25mpg a piece, possibly more. I don't think it really has anything to do with Spangler being better than Kelly because quite frankly he's not at this point in time.

BULLDOG#1
10-27-2011, 01:39 PM
that makes no sense, ronh_pm.

It's hard for me to imagine the reason the coaches would want to redshirt KO is because of how much more Spangler is going to bring to this year's team. I can sort of see the argument if KO was to get great minutes in the next two years after a redshirt and he was committed to grad school... but even then, I think it's bad coaching. Play your best players, regardless.

Not sure how you can say the coaches must feel some way or another -- they haven't announced a thing. It seems like the fans are ready to present Spangler as the next great Gonzaga big and rush KO to a redshirt in hopes of a miracle development when he's sitting out. Makes no sense.

What if Few signs multiple top 50 front court players -- then what do you do with a returning redshirt KO? What if KO gets hurt in a redshirt season? What happens if this happens or if that happens... in the end, it's all speculation and doesn't matter. Play for today and play your best players.

Is the goal to put the best team on the floor? If yes, then isn't the best team forward one that has KO, even with limited minutes? The clips I saw of Spangler showed him smaller than I thought and slower than I was advertised. Granted, that was a scrimage after a practice and you can't read too much into it, but still ... Do people really think that Spangler as a freshman is going to put up the numbers KO did as a soph?

I don't.

ronh_pm
10-27-2011, 02:15 PM
Do people really think that Spangler as a freshman is going to put up the numbers KO did as a soph?

I don't.

If the coach is asking K.O. to redshirt then I would have to think that he feels he can be just as successful without him as with him; it would not make sense for him to not knowingly floor the best team now.

He (the coach) is making an investment for the future and he must feel that the cost at present is minimal or nothing.

All the other stuff about masters degrees and playing time are only reasons why K.O would accept the red shirt not reason to offer it.

OK-ZagFan
10-27-2011, 02:25 PM
Is the goal to put the best team on the floor? If yes, then isn't the best team forward one that has KO, even with limited minutes? The clips I saw of Spangler showed him smaller than I thought and slower than I was advertised. Granted, that was a scrimage after a practice and you can't read too much into it, but still ... Do people really think that Spangler as a freshman is going to put up the numbers KO did as a soph?

I don't.[/QUOTE]

Bulldog#1, I have personally seen KO and Spangler first hand and Spangler is faster, stronger, and quicker than KO and anyone who holds the State of Okla. Rebounding record with company like Blake Griffin, I would venture to say he will out rebound KO. As far as small, from what I am hearing, Spangler is 6'8" - 240+ and if that is small, what do you consider big? I think it has been well said in all of the discussion that KO and the coaches will do what is best for the team and KO, and I think either KO or Spangler will be beneficial to the team. I am new to this forum but I am starting to figure out that alot on here should be coaching.

BULLDOG#1
10-27-2011, 02:40 PM
OK-zagfan, I know you're a big supporter of Spangler. Great. He seems to be a good kid with a bright future. I saw the footage of him at the kraziness. He's not 6'8. He didn't look fast or quick.... actually, he looked lost at times... but really that doesn't matter. KO's game isn't predicated on his physical attributes (other than being a 7 footer). What makes KO effective is his skill set for his height. Comparing the two is a bit of apples to oranges.

I know you're all hyped on Spangler, but I just can't see how you think he'd give you more as a freshman than KO would as a junior. I really don't think Spangler could match KO's numbers from last year.

But I seem to be the minority of this board. KO's versatility is something that will be needed this year. All the talk of huge minutes to Sam, E, and Rob are one thing, but you can't play the three of them together, but you could play any two of them with KO against most teams and have a pretty effective front court.

Malastein
10-27-2011, 02:44 PM
Canada has officially declared war on Oklahoma.

OK-ZagFan
10-27-2011, 03:06 PM
OK-zagfan, I know you're a big supporter of Spangler. Great. He seems to be a good kid with a bright future. I saw the footage of him at the kraziness. He's not 6'8. He didn't look fast or quick.... actually, he looked lost at times... but really that doesn't matter. KO's game isn't predicated on his physical attributes (other than being a 7 footer). What makes KO effective is his skill set for his height. Comparing the two is a bit of apples to oranges.

I know you're all hyped on Spangler, but I just can't see how you think he'd give you more as a freshman than KO would as a junior. I really don't think Spangler could match KO's numbers from last year.

But I seem to be the minority of this board. KO's versatility is something that will be needed this year. All the talk of huge minutes to Sam, E, and Rob are one thing, but you can't play the three of them together, but you could play any two of them with KO against most teams and have a pretty effective front court.



Bulldog#1, I also know you are a big KO supporter and I have one question for you, How can you officially tell the height of someone from footage ? because I have been looking for something that will make me millions of dollars, and here in Okla. if I could scout by just watching footage and be able to tell the correct height, weight, and speed of someone, I will be rich, so please, as both of us are Zags supporters, share your info. so I can quit my job and just go full time scouting from my house.

OK-ZagFan
10-27-2011, 03:08 PM
Canada has officially declared war on Oklahoma.



I think it is just one Canadian, I work with alot of them and they don't understand Bulldog #1 either

04ZagFan
10-27-2011, 04:18 PM
The Kelly vs. Spangler debate is getting out of hand. You have people obviously biased on both sides now.

Guess what, guys? BOTH need to improve a lot. BOTH are behind 3 other bigs on this roster right now. NEITHER will be a big factor in 2011-2012. Now, stop with the back and forth.

Baldwinzag
10-27-2011, 04:21 PM
Funny how I said this in the OP:


No need for a pointless debate, just saying it has real traction.

:roll:

I suppose I'm to blame here...

The amazing thing is we'll all find out tomorrow night.

If KO plays = no redshirt

If KO doesn't play = most likely will redshirt.

Also, a redshirt isn't fireproof, it can be burned at anytime.

04ZagFan
10-27-2011, 04:24 PM
Funny how I said this in the OP:



:roll:

I suppose I'm to blame here...

The amazing thing is we'll all find out tomorrow night.

If KO plays = no redshirt

If KO doesn't play = most likely will redshirt.

Also, a redshirt isn't fireproof, it can be burned at anytime.

You just posted what you've heard from a reliable source.. Nothing wrong with that at all. It's the "NO HE SHOULDN'T REDSHIRT, HE'S BETTER THAN X" that is to blame.

kitzbuel
10-27-2011, 04:32 PM
Canada has officially declared war on Oklahoma.

:roll:

RenoZag
10-27-2011, 04:39 PM
Now, stop with the back and forth.

Dream on. . .

ID ZAGFAN
10-27-2011, 04:46 PM
Funny how I said this in the OP:



:roll:

I suppose I'm to blame here...

The amazing thing is we'll all find out tomorrow night.

If KO plays = no redshirt

If KO doesn't play = most likely will redshirt.

Also, a redshirt isn't fireproof, it can be burned at anytime.

Well, no. If he plays, we will find out tomorrow night that he is not redshirting.

If he does not play, it is just as likely that his decision has not been made yet and will be made after the November 5 scrimmage--if he does not play in that, which we have no way of knowing.


ZaGranny

Baldwinzag
10-27-2011, 04:47 PM
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/texelart/texelart1011/texelart101100051/8317493-3d-human-sitting-on-a-armchair-in-the-cinema-eating-popcorn-with-3d-glasses.jpg

OK-ZagFan
10-27-2011, 04:53 PM
Guess what, guys? BOTH need to improve a lot. BOTH are behind 3 other bigs on this roster right now. NEITHER will be a big factor in 2011-2012. Now, stop with the back and forth.

Like I said we have alot COACHES on here that can pick talent.

sonuvazag
10-27-2011, 05:44 PM
I have a feeling it will work out either way, but I won't be able to prove it.

04ZagFan
10-27-2011, 05:51 PM
Like I said we have alot COACHES on here that can pick talent.

You're just as guilty as anyone... Hyping Spangler up like crazy. I DO hope you are right, but from what we saw at the scrimmage, Spangler struggled against guys that were 5 inches shorter than him. He's got a lot of work to do.

zag67
10-27-2011, 05:58 PM
But if he is giving you 10 to 15 minutes and learning, what else can you expect. The more experience he gets this year the better he will be when Sacre and Harris are gone. I do not expect a lot, I do expect him to learn and get better. Remember he has been a football player for half a year up until this year. Now it is fulltime basketball and he will improve.

OK-ZagFan
10-27-2011, 06:15 PM
But if he is giving you 10 to 15 minutes and learning, what else can you expect. The more experience he gets this year the better he will be when Sacre and Harris are gone. I do not expect a lot, I do expect him to learn and get better. Remember he has been a football player for half a year up until this year. Now it is fulltime basketball and he will improve.

I could not have said it any better zag67, and I support and root for the Zags here in Okla. I just get frustrated when I read post of people who do not know what they are talking about. I have all the confidence in the world that Coach Few and Staff will put on the court the best that we have to have a chance to win, with ever who that is and we can continue to out guess them but in doing so, please don't cut down other players.

04ZagFan
10-27-2011, 06:23 PM
I could not have said it any better zag67, and I support and root for the Zags here in Okla. I just get frustrated when I read post of people who do not know what they are talking about. I have all the confidence in the world that Coach Few and Staff will put on the court the best that we have to have a chance to win, with ever who that is and we can continue to out guess them but in doing so, please don't cut down other players.

I'm not trying to pick on you here, but the fact is you don't necessarily know what type of player Spangler will be at this level either.

BULLDOG#1
10-27-2011, 06:42 PM
this is a crack up, I haven't been at this board in 5 hours and I'm being told to stop the back and forth...

Oklahoma -- we just disagree. we do have common ground in that we both want what's best for the zags and these two kids. I just happen to think more of KO than you do and, i guess, the same with Spangler.

I have seen KO play in NCAA D1 games, and nobody as seen spangler do that. Maybe he'll be great. I don't know and neither does anyone in the great state of OK.

And, mr nit-pic, I don't know for certain exactly how tall spangler is based on video footage. Totally foolish on my part to post that one bit in what was otherwise an accurate post. He doesn't look 6'8... BFD, Barkley was one of the best rebounders in history and he was 6'4. Really, it doesn't matter.

Why take a shot at me? Seriously, why mention that there are loads of people in Canada who don't understand me. Of course they don't. They are the ones watching hockey, not hoops. Anyone with hoop knowledge knows that KO has a broad skill base for a seven footer, which is my point. Well, that and the fact that KO is a known and RS is an unknown, but that's all.

Then again, I'm sure there are plenty of folks in OK that know that there 'a lot' is two words... but whatever. I'm not too sure what goes on down there.

bigblahla
10-27-2011, 07:07 PM
The Spangler I saw at Krazy was 6'8" and big. As others have stated think a young Violette but more athletic.

He had some moments but looked tired, more leg weary than slow.

He is being pushed harder than he ever has been and is playing himself into a condition he has never been in. I have no doubts he will contribute once he gets to D1 condition and game speed.

He definitely will be able to handle the minutes he earns and get better over the season doing it.

My guestimate is his contribution will be tough boards, "D" and put backs.

Can't ask for much more than that from a frosh roll player who gets 10 minutes a game or less.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

zag67
10-27-2011, 07:08 PM
I do not think that the coaches expect "superstar" minutes out of Spangler this year. There are not enough "prime time" minutes with Sacre, Harris and Dower. Now there will be situations where we need rebounds or certain things that he might be able to do, but he mainly is going to need experience. And you do not get experience sitting on the bench. But as league goes on, I think that we will blow enough teams out that he will get the experience to be able to help the following year. That would mean in 2012 we would have a very experienced set of bigs in Dower, KO and Spangler (with Landry able to play against some teams). I would put them up against most D1 teams. And yes I am trusting our coaches and believe that Spangler will grow into a roll of a solid big man (but he is not there and may take a complete year to get there). I also believe that KO is almost there and will get there (but it is hard when you have Sacre and Harris in front of you).

maynard g krebs
10-27-2011, 07:16 PM
I can't say this for sure, since I saw my first Zag game in person Santangelo's soph year (at UW). But I would bet that the former Portland hs POY, who I believe had some high major offers, could have made a contribution as a backup pg playing 10 min a game his true frosh year, like KO probably would this year.

Instead, he led the team to a 2nd straight sweet 16 as a redshirt senior. Smart move by the staff to look longterm at the big picture.

Just one example of many. You build a program for the long haul, or you fall back into the pack like almost every other smaller school that had a good run. KO, Dower, and Spangler as a top 5 frontcourt in March 2014. Pangos/Bell and co. as a top 5 backcourt.

KO is young for his age, and has much more room for growth as a player than most his age, as has been pointed out by many.

04ZagFan
10-27-2011, 09:00 PM
All i can go off of was what I saw in the Scrimmage, and Kevin Hart gave Spangler the BUSINESS.

Baldwinzag
10-27-2011, 09:13 PM
All i can go off of was what I saw in the Scrimmage, and Kevin Hart gave Spangler the BUSINESS.

In all fairness, and to both their credit, Coach Few & Co have said Mike Hart is one of the best defensive players they have ever Coached. Mark Few went as far to say Hart was one of the best defensive players in college basketball.

Just sayin'.

04ZagFan
10-27-2011, 09:18 PM
In all fairness, and to both their credit, Coach Few & Co have said Mike Hart is one of the best defensive players they have EVER had the pleasure of Coaching. Mark Few went as far to say Hart was one of the best defensive players in the college basketball.

Just sayin'.

Well he is a good defensive player, but he's also several inches shorter than Spangler.

And if Hart was really THAT great of a defender, he'd be on scholarship. Nothing against him though.

RenoZag
10-27-2011, 09:20 PM
:horse:

The games can't start soon enough. . .

HillBillyZag
10-27-2011, 09:26 PM
Spangler had 4 pts, 4 boards and 1 assist in the Kraziness. Now I think Hart hit a three and had two boards or so? If that is giving someone the business?, whatever that means?, it evidently did'nt change Few's view of Ryan, he was I believe?, the only front court player mentioned by name at the WCC coache's Press day? I like Mile Hart's hustle and Edi's athleticism, but Spanglers TOUGHNESS will get him plenty of minutes.

MickMick
10-28-2011, 05:51 AM
Please......

Stop with the Spangler crap. A freshman in front of the largest, energetic crowd he has ever played in front of. Playing against some of the best big men in the country and after a handfull of practices.

Just stop it.

Carry on.

LongIslandZagFan
10-28-2011, 06:56 AM
I see the bi-polar version of this board is back in full swing... Must be hoops season.

willandi
10-28-2011, 07:30 AM
I see the bi-polar version of this board is back in full swing... Must be hoops season.

Bi-polar huh? Didn't know we had members living that far south!

BobZag
10-28-2011, 08:39 AM
smh

04ZagFan
10-28-2011, 10:15 AM
Spangler had 4 pts, 4 boards and 1 assist in the Kraziness. Now I think Hart hit a three and had two boards or so? If that is giving someone the business?, whatever that means?, it evidently did'nt change Few's view of Ryan, he was I believe?, the only front court player mentioned by name at the WCC coache's Press day? I like Mile Hart's hustle and Edi's athleticism, but Spanglers TOUGHNESS will get him plenty of minutes.

Did you watch the few possessions where Hart was defending Spanger and Spangler looked like he was going up against Shaq? JUst sayin.

Also, Edi and Hart aren't power forwards, so they won't really be competing with Spangler for minutes.

primal23
10-28-2011, 10:43 AM
I see the bi-polar version of this board is back in full swing... Must be hoops season.

I recommend Wellbutrin XL, works wonders for bi-polar:p

HillBillyZag
10-28-2011, 01:01 PM
I get sick of what I post being misunderstood ? I did not criticize ANY player. I merely tried to state that in my opinion Spangler did about what one would expect from a freshman big and Few mentioned Spanglers toughness and commented Ryan's game could resemble Cory Violette's when his time comes? Personally, I hope everyone who gets minutes makes the most of them. They will have to, for Carroll does'nt sound the least bit intimidated and until the Zags depth enables them to pull away midway in the second half to a 90-71 win, the lead will hover around ten or so? Carroll may be Div 2, but they're not the " Little Sisters of the Poor " either! They believe they can compete, and until Gonzaga convinces them they cannot ?, it isn't going to be the cakewalk many assume.

cjm720
10-28-2011, 01:38 PM
this is one one of the silliest threads in a while

sonuvazag
10-28-2011, 01:52 PM
I wanted to start page 6.

I will say this. I always wished my parents had held me back to be more physically dominant in sports. You know what I would do.

Therunner
11-11-2011, 07:04 PM
WELL DONE.

:cheers: