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cjm720
10-25-2011, 11:39 AM
So, based on the Kraziness in the Kennel it looks like the starting line up is the blue team:

Stockton
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

Last year's white team was - Sacre, KO, Harris, Gray, Meech - and they were game 1 starters.

MaroonZag22
10-25-2011, 11:48 AM
So, based on the Kraziness in the Kennel it looks like the starting line up is the blue team:

Stockton
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

Last year's white team was - Sacre, KO, Harris, Gray, Meech - and they were game 1 starters.

That sounds about right. But based off of the reports, both from those at Kraziness in the Kennel and the coaches who were interviewed after the event, I don't think it is hard to believe that the starting line up may soon be:

Pangos
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

NEC26
10-25-2011, 11:48 AM
Thats exactly the lineup I expected to see to start the season. I hope Pangos continues to be a revelation though. With some good guard play this team has a chance to be really good.

cggonzaga
10-25-2011, 11:53 AM
Based purely off of Kraziness the starting lineup would be:

Pangos
Carter
Mooninghoff
Dower
Sacre

Based off who most likely should start:

Pangos
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

Based off of who will start:

Stockton
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

hockeyzag
10-25-2011, 11:56 AM
I'd really like to see this...

Pangos
Carter
Landry-Edi
Harris
Sacre

with Dower, Bell, MM, and Stockton off the bench.

I just don't know if I like Carter at the 3. I'd much rather have a guy who was more athletic and could mix it up a bit more down low, like what I hear Landry -Edi is able to do.

Either way though I think we'll be good, now we just need Harris to get over this hammy problem, our biggest X-factor is having him at 100%.

04ZagFan
10-25-2011, 11:57 AM
Based purely off of Kraziness the starting lineup would be:

Pangos
Carter
Mooninghoff
Dower
Sacre

Based off who most likely should start:

Pangos
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

Based off of who will start:

Stockton
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

I tend to agree with your analysis. I love having a true SF starting at the 3, but our best lineup might be with Carter, Bell, and Pangos. Hoff looked good though. I do NOT envy coach Few and his staff this year trying to come up with a starting 5. Hopefully that will take care of itself.

Baldwinzag
10-25-2011, 12:19 PM
I understand the reasoning of playing Carter at the 3 this season, yet I still don't prefer it. WCC play is fine, yet if Carter is forced to guard SF's from Mich St, 'Zona, Illinois, etc...ouch, look out. I love Marquise's effort on defense and his long arms, but he's still a twig. It doesn't show b/c he always a wear a t-shirt underneath, but his core is really small. He's a taller David Stockton in terms of strength from his head to his feet. I recall Dellavedova out-muscling him to loose balls and using his body to blow by 'Quise last year. Not picking on Carter, its just I'd rather see him at the off-guard position and occasionally point guard duties.

While he pushes the ball down the court much to slow for my liking, he's a tremendous post-entry passer, one of our best shooters, and has beautiful touch on floaters. He seems to understand the offense and how to carry himself as a leader on the court. Having said that, we have to make room for Gary Bell, who is much too short to play Wing. Interesting dilemma...the "3" position this season has been far more concerning than PG, imo. We have the players, the talent, and options, but I just don't know how they'll manage this position w/o half the season of experimenting. At least we KNOW who the PG's are going to be...the SF, "3", wing is still very much TBD b/w 4 guys i.e. Carter, Hoff, Landry, Harris, Hart, etc. No clear-cut choice to make us the better team. Carter with the experience, Hoff with the shot, Landry with the defense/rebounding/athleticism, Harris with the body and want-to, and Hart with the intangibles.

Having said all that, has anyone noticed Coach Few seems really high on Guy Landry? Some of his more revealing comments this pre-seasing have centered around Landry's ability to 'mix it up and really help us out this season'.

Stockton or Pangos? That part is easy. Play 'em both for 20 minutes. There you go.

The "3" is much more entertaining and worth discussion. What in the world are we going to do here, especially in OOC play. Marquise Carter is all of 170lbs at 6'4" and not very athletic....not the answer, imo. As for the rest, see rest of post...

JPtheBeasta
10-25-2011, 12:20 PM
I tend to agree with your analysis. I love having a true SF starting at the 3, but our best lineup might be with Carter, Bell, and Pangos. Hoff looked good though. I do NOT envy coach Few and his staff this year trying to come up with a starting 5. Hopefully that will take care of itself.

+1 on the SF front. Carter seemed to be bit of a glue guy last year and it's hard to keep him out of the lineup because of that. He was also very clutch for us. Experience wins out over ideal length/athleticism at this point. Few is also very used to undersized players at the 3. My opinion is that the only thing potentially keeping Carter from the 3 spot is another Elias experiment.

Larryzag
10-25-2011, 12:35 PM
I think we see the starting blue team as our starting five for Carroll College. However Landry was much better in person than I expected. I can see him getting a lot of SF minutes unless he doesn't learn the system. Also Carter at the 1 or 2 while Bell gets started is a possibility.

Billfish'80
10-25-2011, 12:49 PM
I really was impressed with Landry. He scored a number of ways a K in the K. What I liked even more than his scoring was his entry pass to cutting men in the key. He had 3 assists doing this, and looked like he enjoyed making the pass. He rebounded actively. He's quick, and moved well without the ball, and cut well himself. With the PT he could be a double double machine, with a tripple double (maybe?) thrown in if everything clicked in a game. He looked like he could be that good at the 3 spot. Not tryin' to hype him, but watch the video's again. He was a major player for team red. I think he and Hoff can hold most of that position down very well this year, with some other good back-ups (MK can flash G-unit abilities). Gotta love Harts heart! He plays that 3 so well for an undersized walk-on (as if he really was just walk-on quality). Kid could play on a lot of D1 teams, and would have been a star on some, yet we have him as a third or fourth option. Not worried about the 3, myself.

hooter73
10-25-2011, 12:52 PM
Dont know about starting but I think Landry and Hoff will be the 3 we need this year with Hart in for what he's always in for.

rennis
10-25-2011, 01:06 PM
After this weekend I'm only confident in the following starting lineups:

Heister/Ehlo

Hudson/Santangelo

cggonzaga
10-25-2011, 01:07 PM
If Hoff has improved and Landry is all he's cracked up to be it's going to be awfully difficult for Hart to see the floor this year. Especially if Carter/Harris plays the 3.

Isn't Ehlo gone? I thought Dickau and Fox were the new color guys?

sonuvazag
10-25-2011, 01:10 PM
Gotta love Harts heart! He plays that 3 so well for an undersized walk-on (as if he really was just walk-on quality).
It may seem that he is smaller, but I was standing next to Hart at Safeway and was surprised to find that he had at least a couple inches on me. I am 6'3" so I wouldn't call him undersized for a 3.

Angelo Roncalli
10-25-2011, 01:10 PM
After this weekend I'm only confident in the following starting lineups:

Heister/Ehlo



Really?

bartruff1
10-25-2011, 01:11 PM
After this weekend I'm only confident in the following starting lineups:

Heister/Ehlo

Hudson/Santangelo ??? Ehlo ? He is gone...coaching..

rennis
10-25-2011, 01:17 PM
??? Ehlo ? He is gone...coaching..

hahahahaha, figures.

I actually didn't know what happened after the FSN shakeup over here. Been meaning to look into it

Virginia Zags Fan
10-25-2011, 01:21 PM
Based purely off of Kraziness the starting lineup would be:

.......

Based off of who will start:

Stockton
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

Agree, but I also think that Pangos will be on the court in short order. I also think that there will be plenty of time for Sam, da Hof, and Guy. Beyond that, I think playing time is going to be pretty scarce except in blowouts. Actually, I think Mike Hart might get some time in certain situations.

Last year M. Goodson played the 1st five minutes and then Stockton came in to get the offense moving. This is not bad as Stockton, who got things going last year, is better this year, and will be replaced by someone who may be even better as evidenced at the K in the K. We will miss Goodson's defense and elite athleticism. However, I think we will have superior passing, shooting and post involvement this year.

Just my opinion,
VZF

sonuvazag
10-25-2011, 01:47 PM
In the future everyone will have 15 minutes of playing time.

Baldwinzag
10-25-2011, 02:00 PM
In the future everyone will have 15 minutes of playing time.

I see what you did there. :)

titopoet
10-25-2011, 02:32 PM
So, based on the Kraziness in the Kennel it looks like the starting line up is the blue team:

Stockton
Bell
Carter
Harris
Sacre

Last year's white team was - Sacre, KO, Harris, Gray, Meech - and they were game 1 starters.

I think that is right. The countdown to when Pangos takes over. I am thinking after the WSU game, though maybe sooner.

U Zig, I Zag
10-25-2011, 02:36 PM
Against Carroll:

Stockton
Carter
MM
E
Rob

Baldwinzag
10-25-2011, 02:44 PM
Against Carroll:

Stockton
Carter
MM
E
Rob

+1
http://image.spreadshirt.com/image-server/image/composition/18781272/view/1/producttypecolor/2/type/png/width/280/height/280/swingers-i-m-tellin-ya-you-re-money_design.png

Once the two prized newbies get a little more mileage under their belt, things could change in a hurry.

Btw, if Della-mouthpiece-dova can avg 34mpg, 13ppg as a true freshman for St Mary's, Pangos has the ability to do the same for us...

northsidezagfan
10-25-2011, 02:56 PM
Why not give Bell and Pangos (or at least one of the two) their first start against an NAIA opponent? I know it probably won't happen but it makes sense to me to use this as an opportunity to gain experience in a relatively "low-stress" situation. Between this and playing against Texas that's some solid experience heading into the EWU and WSU games. We'll see i guess.

maynard g krebs
10-25-2011, 04:10 PM
It's important to start a game with a great offensive flow, and Pangos (or Stockton), Bell, Carter is the best way to accomplish this. Get off to an offensive start with a backcourt that can spread the floor, shoot, pass, and penetrate, and you get the defense off balance and reactive. The offensive ability of this group will offset any defensive liability at the 3 most of the time. A lot of teams play two 6'3 to 6'5 wings anyway.

If you're up against the rare Adam Morrison/Luke Jackson/Brandon Roy type, 6'6 or 6'7 who can shoot or break down a defense with penetration, you adjust with a big wing for a better defensive lineup. But that kind of player is rare in college.

In a perfect world, you start a big athletic wing. If Landry turns out to be that guy, great. But for now the most effective starting group is 3 guards.

JPtheBeasta
10-25-2011, 04:28 PM
As far as the coaches go, Is there anything else besides being the second highest scorer in practices?



Yah, we've gotta be careful on that one. Although there's no indication of it so far for Pangos, specifically, scoring the most points could just mean a player is selfish and chucks up too many shots.

The Pangos/Stockton debate is fun for now but as long as we keep winning I am happy. I'd be happy to have Meech back for the same reasons. I think both will be adept at running the offense and the big ? is defense. Stockton had some big steals, but has the potential to be manhandled by the Pullens of the NCAA world. Pangos looked a bit slow-footed in that Nike Summit game. If we can't keep the opposing team's PG out of the lane we could be in for some long nights.

maynard g krebs
10-25-2011, 04:50 PM
Pangos looked a bit slow-footed in that Nike Summit game.

No. I'll leave it at that, and not mention the quality of players pressing him fullcourt, mostly unsuccessfully.

MickMick
10-25-2011, 05:07 PM
Anyone have the link?

I recall watching the Nike Hoop Summit.

The US team was absolutely loaded. That Beal kid for Florida. Kids destined for Kentucky, North Carolina, Syracuse, etc., etc.

What I recall most are a couple of awesome passes by Wroten.

Pangos represented well considering he will never face another lineup like that again until he is getting paid for it. I didn't see anything that caused concern. He definately tried to get his World Team involved in the offense and the transition game by the US team was overwhelming. Pangos commonly faced "two on ones" and "three on ones" in transition. I thought he challenged the poor odds well.

The only player on the World team that looked better (to me), was the big African center whom I believe opted for and was drafted by the NBA.

maynard g krebs
10-25-2011, 05:15 PM
Maynard, Do you think he will be facing that kind of quality in our out of conference schedule? I am not talking about potential quality and those players going into the NBA in the future, but actual quality.

I think he will, and I think he will be hammered by that quality. These are further steps he will have to take.

"Hammered" is a strong word. The guys he played against last spring all will be impact players as frosh, and better than the vast majority of D1 guards right out of the gate. So I'm talking about what I see as actual quality, not potential.

From the scrimmage tapes, I'm with the majority that thinks Pangos outplayed Stockton by a considerable margin.

maynard g krebs
10-25-2011, 05:23 PM
but what insider information do you have, that you would name those players?

The closest thing I have to insider info is CDC and BZ's posts. But I came to my conclusions on my own, quite a while ago. When those guys think the same, I see it as validation of my opinion.

And, I'd be curious as to what you see as "serious flows".

JPtheBeasta
10-25-2011, 06:07 PM
No. I'll leave it at that, and not mention the quality of players pressing him fullcourt, mostly unsuccessfully.

I will exercise my right to an opinion on this one. I will agree with you all day on offense. Pangos didn't look to have great lateral quickness on defense in that game. I was just underwhelmed from that one performance, which was the only time I have seen him play, for what that's worth. Multiple Draft Express-like scouting write ups talk about his lack of elite athleticism, so I'm not alone on this. It is TBD how big of a deal this is going to be, but defense at the point of attack is a worry of mine.

webspinnre
10-25-2011, 06:20 PM
Lack of elite athleticism? Well gosh, no kidding. If he had elite athleticism, he would've been a top 50 prospect easily. There's nothing wrong with slightly above average athleticism.

Baldwinzag
10-25-2011, 06:55 PM
Pangos is NOT listed as one of the top incoming freshmen in the nation.

Draftexpress, one of the most respected NBA draft/scout site, has him ranked amongst the 2011 class.

Top-80 NCAA Freshman (http://www.draftexpress.com/rankings/NCAA-Freshmen/)

Not claiming he's the next Derrick Rose or anything, yet Notre Dame, Cinncinati, Michigan, Virginia, Temple, & UNLV would disagree that KP wasn't one of the Top PG's in this class. They all actively recruited and offered him a schollie.

JPtheBeasta
10-25-2011, 07:01 PM
Lack of elite athleticism? Well gosh, no kidding. If he had elite athleticism, he would've been a top 50 prospect easily. There's nothing wrong with slightly above average athleticism.

You're right the way you frame it, but you're making a straw man here- slightly above average athleticism is fine on offense, because his skills and intangibles can make up for it. Lack of athleticism could be an issueon defense, when facing elite athletes. That's all I am trying to say. The fact that he is or isn't a top 50 prospect makes no difference in this (friendly) argument, by the way. Dan Dickau's, who people are apt to compare Pangos to lately, downfall in the NBA was his inability- whether actual or perceived- to guard. I like Pangos and think he will be a great GU player, and Dickau was one of my favorite players of all time, but that doesn't make either of them beyond reproach when making a critique.


I don't usually defend a position this much, because I don't really enjoy arguing, but I wanted to clarify my position because two people now have argued against some statements of mine without really anwering what was actually being said.

Dirt McGirt
10-25-2011, 07:21 PM
Is Harris going to be playing the three this year? I remember saying that this would be good for Gonzaga because of his athleticism about a year ago and was told that it wasn't really a possiblity (ball handling ability?)

Worthington
10-25-2011, 07:29 PM
Pangos is actually fairly quick, I don't think he is going to have major problems on defense. The guys that he went up against on the world team are future lottery picks, and no matter who guards them, they will get their buckets. In my opinion, Pangos is going to have far fewer typical freshman troubles than your average newbie because of his high bball IQ. He is the kind of player who thrives in a system once he has time to learn it both on offense and defense.

maynard g krebs
10-25-2011, 07:30 PM
I will exercise my right to an opinion on this one. I will agree with you all day on offense. Pangos didn't look to have great lateral quickness on defense in that game. I was just underwhelmed from that one performance, which was the only time I have seen him play, for what that's worth. Multiple Draft Express-like scouting write ups talk about his lack of elite athleticism, so I'm not alone on this. It is TBD how big of a deal this is going to be, but defense at the point of attack is a worry of mine.

If you'd said, "lacked elite athleticism", I'd have agreed with you. You said "slow footed". That's what I disagreed with. Maybe it's just semantics, but the terms seem very different to me. And almost everybody is going to have trouble guarding Beal, Rivers, Wroten etc. without help.

To be honest, I didn't watch his defense in the game that closely.

kitzbuel
10-25-2011, 07:47 PM
Is Harris going to be playing the three this year? I remember saying that this would be good for Gonzaga because of his athleticism about a year ago and was told that it wasn't really a possiblity (ball handling ability?)

Consensus seems to be that Harris will be at the 4. Dower could conceivably get some time there with Harris at the 3, but probably for offensive reasons.

We will all find out soon enough, though.

titopoet
10-25-2011, 07:50 PM
I will exercise my right to an opinion on this one. I will agree with you all day on offense. Pangos didn't look to have great lateral quickness on defense in that game. I was just underwhelmed from that one performance, which was the only time I have seen him play, for what that's worth. Multiple Draft Express-like scouting write ups talk about his lack of elite athleticism, so I'm not alone on this. It is TBD how big of a deal this is going to be, but defense at the point of attack is a worry of mine.

I don't think that he is an elite athlete, but he is a better one than DS. He does make for it with cagey smarts and anticipation. His hands where always active.

roxdoc
10-25-2011, 08:09 PM
This thread started about who the "starters" would be and evolved into a the pros and cons of how elite or athletic Pangos is. Regardless of the answer to that, the real question is: Is he better than the alternative at this point in time?

northsidezagfan
10-25-2011, 08:18 PM
This thread started about who the "starters" would be and evolved into a the pros and cons of how elite or athletic Pangos is. Regardless of the answer to that, the real question is: Is he better than the alternative at this point in time?

yes

izzjess
10-25-2011, 08:24 PM
shoot....john daddy stockton wasnt very athletic either-----just smart with what he had..---dare i say --just like Kp

titopoet
10-26-2011, 03:50 AM
shoot....john daddy stockton wasnt very athletic either-----just smart with what he had..---dare i say --just like Kp

Actually, he was. Steve Kerr, when he visited GU. said he was one of the fastest guys he ever played. He was always listed as one of the quickest players in the NBA of his era. John, in his prime, was quicker than Goodson.

MickMick
10-26-2011, 04:35 AM
I don't have a problem with what you are saying, but like you say, he is not Derick Rose. If he was, I would be on the bandwagon too.


We will have a forum vote on if you are allowed on the bandwagon later.

cjm720
10-26-2011, 06:46 AM
Pangos is actually fairly quick, I don't think he is going to have major problems on defense. The guys that he went up against on the world team are future lottery picks, and no matter who guards them, they will get their buckets. In my opinion, Pangos is going to have far fewer typical freshman troubles than your average newbie because of his high bball IQ. He is the kind of player who thrives in a system once he has time to learn it both on offense and defense.

Well put.

webspinnre
10-26-2011, 07:36 AM
There's more to defense than pure athleticism. From the little I've seen/heard about Pangos, he's able to take advantage of the athleticism he has, and combine it with the Basketball IQ he has, and turn that into above average defense. Stockton does the same thing, to a lesser degree.

Baldwinzag
10-26-2011, 08:53 AM
or just like DS? There is no doubt that DS had a years+ of coaching and playing with JDS.

Not sure what JDS Height/Weight was in 81. Anyone?
JDS - 6-1 175
DS 5-11 152

JDS Stats at Gonzaga
-------------- MIN FG% FT% RPG APG TPG BPG SPG PPG
80-81 Gonzaga 9.4 57.8 74.3 0.4 1.4 0.9 0.0 0.7 3.1
81-82 Gonzaga 39.0 57.6 67.6 2.5 5.0 3.1 0.0 2.5 11.2
82-83 Gonzaga 38.4 51.8 79.1 3.2 6.8 3.5 0.3 2.5 13.9
83-84 Gonzaga 37.6 57.7 69.2 2.4 7.2 3.3 0.1 3.9 20.9
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS 31.6 55.9 71.9 2.2 5.2 2.8 0.1 2.4 12.5

DS Stats at Gonzaga
Season - GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2010-11 34 15.6 4.17 46.0 33.3 83.8 2.147 1.324 0.059 0.941


Other interesting info.

JDS's dad, John Houston Stockton played football.
Height 5 ft 11 in
Weight 193 pounds

Good post, JG. Well said and researched.

However, if DS is 5'11", then Pangos is 6'3".

04ZagFan
10-26-2011, 09:56 AM
I don't like the David Stockton/John Stockton comparisons.. Sure, they are father and son, but they are two different people. Similarities? Sure.. But just because John was able to become one of the best PGs of ALL TIME, doesn't mean David will. David does have some things working against him. Size, quickness, among them. Those things can't be overlooked, regardless of who his dad was.

David did some great things for us last year, as just a freshman, but he was also the biggest liability on our team when we went against teams with quicker guards. Yes, his father handled countless NBA all star PGs, but David isn't his father.

That's why I believe it's very important that Pangos IS the real deal, because if he's not, without Meech, teams with quick, athletic PGs (like EWU and WSU, our first two games of the season) will dominate our guards. I'm sure Stockton has improved, and will continue to improve, but this is why I get frustrated with all of the comparisons with his dad.. Irrelevant. We saw 1st hand what happened last year when David Stockton (the one on our team right now, in 2011) went up against quicker, faster, bigger guards. THATS what matters. Not his father.

We also saw what David can do when he's not physically outmatched. Great things.. Which is why, hopefully Pangos can handle himself against those more physically gifted, because we'd have a great 1-2 punch at PG.

WallaWallaZag
10-26-2011, 11:15 AM
If you compare the write up of all the ranked PGs in that list, there is one thing that sticks in my mind. "There are some questions" with Kevin Pangos. He seems to have more raw talent then any PG we have had in a long time. He could turn out to be our best ever, but most likely not in his freshmen year.

However; He is certainly going to be tried and tested with our schedule early on and you got to believe that Mark Few will be weighing #75, Kevin Pangos and David Stockton against #9 Myck Kabongo in the Texas Scrimmage. I think that is on, right? Only problem is, we probably won't hear about it much, but Mark Few will be weighing the two there.

Also, we will get a chance ( hopefully ) to compare Stockton and Pangos against #13 Josiah Turner, when we play Arizona on Dec 17th. That game right there, will give us an idea how well Pangos is developing and may settle the starter issue?

It could go down before or after that. I just don't kow and I don't think anyone can say for sure, they know either. Everyone loves the Kool-Aid! Even me. I just hate the disapointment afterwards, when it turns out to be something else.

interesting that they have pangos @ #75 but gbj is nowhere to be found...

Baldwinzag
10-26-2011, 11:24 AM
We're still two weeks of time, two weeks of practice, and two exhibition games away from our first game. Soooo much can happen b/w now and then. Injuries, red-shirts, new talent emerging, old talent regressing, etc etc.

They are only half-way through the PRE-season.

This first exhibition contest will be twice as telling as the pick-up game we witnessed, and the controlled Texas game will be even more, and so on...

I'm guilty of this -- we must be patient.

OK-ZagFan
10-26-2011, 12:02 PM
We're still two weeks of time, two weeks of practice, and two exhibition games away from our first game. Soooo much can happen b/w now and then. Injuries, red-shirts, new talent emerging, old talent regressing, etc etc.

They are only half-way through the PRE-season.

This first exhibition contest will be twice as telling as the pick-up game we witnessed, and the controlled Texas game will be even more, and so on...

I'm guilty of this -- we must be patient.

Well stated Baldwinzag, I totally agree with you that alot can name the starters and who is going to see playing time from just a 15 min. inter-squad scrimmage. I think we all need to take a deep breathe, let the players play and the coaches -coach and by the first game we will know for sure. It is very hard to tell from an inter-squad scrimmage and hopefully we may be able to tell a little more after Fridays exhibition game with Carrol.

maynard g krebs
10-26-2011, 12:23 PM
interesting that they have pangos @ #75 but gbj is nowhere to be found...

It's an NBA draft projection site, not a ranking of hs players or a projection of how they'll do in college.

They are probably saying Bell is an undersized 2 guard, and failing (imo) to see that he's a combo with the ability to play the 1, which he'll have to do at his size. Different classes, but that site ranks Keita in his class, and higher than Pangos. Because, of course, they see that he has the body type for his position.

Kind of like the NFL saying Doug Flutie couldn't play qb because he was too short. Pro sports is way too into physical measurements and overlooks guys who can play, but don't fit the mold they have set up.

Baldwinzag
10-26-2011, 12:40 PM
exhibition games are often deceiving.

JG, gotta ask, is there anything that determines playing time in your eyes? I understand the coaches experimenting w/certain lineups throughout the season, but they don't just through 10-12 players out there and hope something sticks in the OOC.

between practices, scrimmages, drills, exhibition games, etc...the coaches get a purdy good idea of whom is going to play or maybe not so much, at least for the most part. How do you think they knew David Stockton was good enough last season? Every single one of the Coaches talked about his ability in practices, which lead to their trust in him in games.

Just take a look at past years...exhibition games have even given fans a pretty accurate barometer of whom was going to play the most mins or even start. We watched Ammo tear it up his FR yr, we watched Monninghoff knock down 3's, we watched David Stockton show flashes of maturity his FR yr, we saw JP Batista look terrific in the post, & Ronny Turiaf come in for some raw dunks in '01. Plus, Carroll College has matched up and beaten 2 D1 schools in the past 3 yrs -- we realize they aren't Mich St, but they are just as good as some teams on our schedule too.

Like the 'ol adage goes, "you play like you practice".

ZagLawGrad
10-26-2011, 02:06 PM
We're still two weeks of time, two weeks of practice, and two exhibition games away from our first game. Soooo much can happen b/w now and then. Injuries, red-shirts, new talent emerging, old talent regressing, etc etc.

They are only half-way through the PRE-season.

This first exhibition contest will be twice as telling as the pick-up game we witnessed, and the controlled Texas game will be even more, and so on...

I'm guilty of this -- we must be patient.

Agreed. Patience is a good virtue at this early stage. All of us have been guilty in past seasons of early expectations that are way too high for certain players, and the team as a whole. I expect changes throughout the season as the team gels and the rookies (especially the rookies) start to get a feel for their role and game. This recent swooning over Pangos after one short intra-squad scrimmage is baffling. Let's hope he really is what we hope he is, but he ain't proven his salt yet by a long shot.

maynard g krebs
10-26-2011, 03:57 PM
Agreed. Patience is a good virtue at this early stage. All of us have been guilty in past seasons of early expectations that are way too high for certain players, and the team as a whole. I expect changes throughout the season as the team gels and the rookies (especially the rookies) start to get a feel for their role and game. This recent swooning over Pangos after one short intra-squad scrimmage is baffling. Let's hope he really is what we hope he is, but he ain't proven his salt yet by a long shot.

In '97 I was fairly new to Seattle, and went to see the Huskies' preseason exhibition against a traveling Russian youth team. UW had an unathletic freshman pg named Dan Dickau, who played 10 or 15 minutes behind Jan Wooten and Chris Thompson. I was so blown away by his play that I bought a season ticket the next day (less than $100 for general admission, and the place was usually so empty you could move to about any seat you wanted).

I grew up watching the great Philly pg's of the late 60's and 70's, and instantly saw DD had the feel and instincts of those guys. You rarely see that anymore. In those days, Penn, LaSalle, and Nova were national powers, and St. Joes and Temple were often ranked as well, and it was mostly because of superior guard play. What I saw in DD- within a few minutes- was that kind of player.

Pangos is better now than DD as a freshman, and by all accounts will work just as hard to reach the level DD did.