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ZagNative
10-18-2011, 08:57 AM
From CBS Sports (http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/15755657/2011-12-season-preview-top-100-players-in-college-basketball?ttag=gen10_on_all_fb_na_txt_0001):

Of all the features that are part of our preseason college hoops content here at CBSSports.com, this is among our favorite. Who are the top 100 players in college basketball? Well isn't that just an impossible task for anyone to get a true grip on.

But in being as objective as possible, and using a formidable, fair nomination method between the four of us, we feel we accurately and rightfully assembled the true tally of talent in hoops for 2011-12. We eliminated all agendas as best we could. That meant Jeff Goodman couldn't force the Arizona guys into high positions, Gary Parrish was curbed from getting three Memphis players in the top 15, Matt Norlander's love of South Dakota State's Nate Wolters went unrequited and Jeff Borzello's plea to include the guys with the best "bro factor" went largely ignored.
20. Elias Harris (junior forward, Gonzaga). He's looking to bounce back from a down season, but has the talent and experience to do it. J.B.
79. Robert Sacre (senior center, Gonzaga). He's a man-child in the middle for the Zags, especially in the WCC. Can score in the post and is also an adept rebounder and shot-blocker. J.G.

former1dog
10-18-2011, 09:01 AM
Other WCC players -

65. Matthew Dellavedova (junior guard, Saint Mary's). Dellavedova is one of four returning starters for a program that has won at least 25 games in four straight seasons. G.P.

78. Brandon Davies (junior forward, Brigham Young) Big, strong and athletic. Will likely be the No. 1 option for Dave Rose now that The Jimmer is gone. J.G.

94. Kevin Foster (junior guard, Santa Clara). West Coast has plenty of representatives on this list, and Foster wraps it up for the conference. He makes the Broncos a contender in what's a pretty laudable league. M.N.

cjm720
10-18-2011, 09:56 AM
I love Bobby, but he's not an "adept rebounder."

mgadfly
10-18-2011, 10:08 AM
I love Bobby, but he's not an "adept rebounder."

I think he probably is. His numbers improved last year while playing on a team that really limited the offensive rebounding of its opponents. We had big guards on the court and he shared rebounding opportunities with Harris, Dower, and KO.

And if we gave him a half rebound for every ball that he touched but wasn't quite able to secure, he would be very adept.

zag buddy
10-18-2011, 10:16 AM
If we gave him an 1/2 rebound for each time he blocked out superbly so a team mate could get the rebound he would be way up there.

23dpg
10-18-2011, 10:32 AM
Davies just ahead of Sacre? Prove them wrong Bobby!

tobizag
10-18-2011, 11:08 AM
And if we gave him a half rebound for every ball that he touched but wasn't quite able to secure, he would be very adept.


If we gave him an 1/2 rebound for each time he blocked out superbly so a team mate could get the rebound he would be way up there

"near-rebounds" are not rebounds, and do not measurably help the team. we don't award 1 point for shots that go "in-and-out" (if we did rob would lead the country in scoring based solely on his shots within 4 feet), or 1/2 steals for every time a defensive player touches the ball. the best rebounders secure the rebounds. at 6.2 per game last season, he ranked 303/490 in DI bball (players averaging 5.4 rbs or more, playing 75% of teams games), despite being 7' tall. luke sikma averaged 10.5/gm. luke sikma is an adept rebounder. rob jones was just outside the top 100 at 7.7/gm, while being listed at 6'6" and often playing SF. rob jones is an adept rebounder.

look, i'm a huge fan of rob sacre. i can't give you one example where i ever saw him take a play off. he's a hard worker, a passionate player and leader, and i'm going to miss him after this year. but his rebounding could certainly use some improvement.

DADoZAG
10-18-2011, 11:14 AM
Congrats to E on being ranked so high after his injury effected sophomore year. Continue the improvement I saw this summer on his first step, along with learning to share the ball as has been mentioned in other threads, and he just might win the lottery. I’m wondering if he isn’t waiting to buy that ticket until after the Final Four in 2013, though. Patience this young man seems to have.


"near-rebounds" are not rebounds, …

look, i'm a huge fan of rob sacre. i can't give you one example where i ever saw him take a play off. he's a hard worker, a passionate player and leader, and i'm going to miss him after this year. but his rebounding could certainly use some improvement.

I'm a huge fan too, tobi. His biggest problem NOW is his hands, imo. He’s always been very vocal on defense, he stopped rocking at the line, he’s greatly reduced his inclination to dribble in the paint. He’s sharing the ball better, has a nice hook over both shoulders, and I witnessed some very nice turnarounds this summer.

But how many turnovers last year were because Rob simply couldn't handle the pass? You can say it's because the pass wasn't to the proper side, or was too low, too late, too... whatever.

But many times the pass was perfect, and Rob wasn't. Period. Too many times a rebound came to him or he got to it… without him getting control. Too many times, the 150 pound “David” knocked the ball out of the hands of the 250 pound “Goliath.” Too many occasions when Big Rob should be stuffing the arm of the defender through the hoop with the ball if that defender should dare try the block.

Improve the drop step and improve the hands (eyes), and watch the accolades come rushing in. Who knows, maybe he’ll find his own lotto ticket.

Tick, tick, tick,…

Go ZAGS!

maynard g krebs
10-18-2011, 11:19 AM
Harris is the top player in the west according to this, followed by UW's Terrence Ross at 23 and UCLA's Reeves Nelson at 24.

mgadfly
10-18-2011, 11:41 AM
"near-rebounds" are not rebounds, and do not measurably help the team. we don't award 1 point for shots that go "in-and-out" (if we did rob would lead the country in scoring based solely on his shots within 4 feet), or 1/2 steals for every time a defensive player touches the ball. the best rebounders secure the rebounds. at 6.2 per game last season, he ranked 303/490 in DI bball (players averaging 5.4 rbs or more, playing 75% of teams games), despite being 7' tall. luke sikma averaged 10.5/gm. luke sikma is an adept rebounder. rob jones was just outside the top 100 at 7.7/gm, while being listed at 6'6" and often playing SF. rob jones is an adept rebounder.

look, i'm a huge fan of rob sacre. i can't give you one example where i ever saw him take a play off. he's a hard worker, a passionate player and leader, and i'm going to miss him after this year. but his rebounding could certainly use some improvement.

I was kidding about 1/2 rebound thing.... :D Sorry.

As for Sikma, he is not an adept rebounder. He is a sensational/amazing/top tier/extremely good rebounder.

Adept
Noun:
A person who is skilled or proficient at something.

And Sikma isn't an elite rebounder because he averaged 10.5 per game. He is an amazing rebounder because he averaged 27.7% of the defensive rebounds (6th percentage in the nation) when he was in the game.

Now, as amazing as he was, his percentages are influenced a little because he was often times the only guy above 6'5" on the court for his team. He had no Harris/Dower/KO taking rebounding opportunities away from him (there are only so many to go around). Sacre's team did much better on the glass than Sikma's.

awberke
10-18-2011, 11:51 AM
"near-rebounds" are not rebounds, and do not measurably help the team. we don't award 1 point for shots that go "in-and-out" (if we did rob would lead the country in scoring based solely on his shots within 4 feet), or 1/2 steals for every time a defensive player touches the ball. .

Sorry but those are crappy analogies. I'm not agreeing with him but someone blocking out and the teammate getting the ball, is not the same as blocking out and the other team getting the ball (what you're implying).

An assist instead of a basket would be a better analogy.

zag buddy
10-18-2011, 12:36 PM
If the other players blocked out as well as Rob does his numbers would go up.

americasteam
10-18-2011, 12:48 PM
Sorry but those are crappy analogies. I'm not agreeing with him but someone blocking out and the teammate getting the ball, is not the same as blocking out and the other team getting the ball (what you're implying).

An assist instead of a basket would be a better analogy.

I believe certain players have been trained to block out, pushing back on their player to make sure that player doesn't get the rebound and that's their job; some players do that, but still go after the rebound, and a third type that just goes for the rebound, completely forgetting about blocking out. All are going to get some rebounds, but the second example probably gets the most.

My daughter tended to be the first example, which was great with certain coaches, but not with coaches that were all about the high rebound count. She had to learn to be more aggressive to get it herself, rather than expect the fact that if all five players on her team blocked out, the ball would literally fall in the hands of her or one of her teammates and it really didn't matter which player got it.


As an aside, regarding assists, I remember way back when she played middle school ball, her coach kept Assist 1 and Assist 2 stats. Assist 1 was you gave them a great pass, and they shoulda made the easy bucket, and Assist 2 was for when the bucket was made. Lots and lots of Assist 1's and not many Assist 2's in middle school! Haha! Sometimes I watch college games and and yell out "Give an Assist 1 for ______" when the player blows the basket.

tobizag
10-18-2011, 01:49 PM
I was kidding about 1/2 rebound thing.... :D Sorry.

As for Sikma, he is not an adept rebounder. He is a sensational/amazing/top tier/extremely good rebounder.

Adept
Noun:
A person who is skilled or proficient at something.

And Sikma isn't an elite rebounder because he averaged 10.5 per game. He is an amazing rebounder because he averaged 27.7% of the defensive rebounds (6th percentage in the nation) when he was in the game.

Now, as amazing as he was, his percentages are influenced a little because he was often times the only guy above 6'5" on the court for his team. He had no Harris/Dower/KO taking rebounding opportunities away from him (there are only so many to go around). Sacre's team did much better on the glass than Sikma's.

re: the use of the word adept in reference to sikma...this was an attempt at dry humor based on understating his skill.

to the point, i recognize there are many factors involved in rebounding, and certainly the size and skill of those around you count as worthy influencing factors. that being said, we could make a similar argument that sikma, while being the only big on the court, was also on a team that heaved 3's at a ridiculous clip, thus providing a ton of long rebounds that theoretically go to wing players/guards and would limit his opportunity to gather in boards near the basket.

@awberke: i'll concede your point that rob missing rebounds doesn't necessarily mean gonzaga does not secure the ball on a missed shot. still, i think the author of the cbs article is being generous. bad hands, bad timing, whatever the reason...rob should get more rebounds given his height and athleticism.

awberke
10-18-2011, 02:39 PM
think the author of the cbs article is being generous. bad hands, bad timing, whatever the reason...rob should get more rebounds given his height and athleticism.

Agreed. He also has a knack of grabbing a rebound and holding it loosely in place for the other team to poke out.

zagzilla
10-19-2011, 06:16 AM
Congrats to Rob and Elias for this recognition. Big credibility and respect for the program.

GU's front court could be dominant and I expect the team is going to pound the ball to the post which will take the pressure off of a young backcourt.

Would love to see us look for more dunks for sure

ZZ