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Angelo Roncalli
10-13-2011, 12:00 PM
Confidence is high in Santa Clara coming off its CollegeInsider.com Tournament title.

Really high.

Junior guard Kevin Foster said, “We see ourselves at the top of the league.”

Sophomore guard Evan Roquemore said, “That gives us confidence but we don’t think of ourselves as the underdog anymore. We see ourselves as an equal [to Gonzaga and Saint Mary’s].”

http://www.examiner.com/wcc-basketball-in-national/wcc-players-think-santa-clara-equal-to-gonzaga-saint-mary-s

gu03alum
10-13-2011, 12:35 PM
I welcome the challenge and hope they are good this year. It should be a good tuneup for the NCAA tournament.

cjm720
10-13-2011, 12:45 PM
BYU will certainly be in the mix.

It might be the hardest year yet to get in the Dance...not a given. We're going to have to get luck and play extremely well.

hooter73
10-13-2011, 12:49 PM
They can sure give it the ole college try but honestly... well good luck to them. Hope a loss to USF wont deflate them too much before going after their equals of BYU and GU.

LongIslandZagFan
10-13-2011, 12:54 PM
Confidence was also high at Little Big Horn... We all know how that turned out. :D

Martin Centre Mad Man
10-13-2011, 01:16 PM
Confidence was also high at Little Big Horn... We all know how that turned out. :D

Little Big Horn might not be the battle I'd choose as my analogy for Gonzaga v. SCU. As I recall, the underdog defeated a heavily-favored traditional power in that fight.

CDC84
10-13-2011, 01:28 PM
Losing this guy hurts:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/41455/marc-trasolini

The challenge that any WCC contender is going to have this year is dealing with Gonzaga's frontcourt.

vandalzag
10-13-2011, 01:31 PM
"To be the Man you gotta beat the Man"

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/343080.jpg

hooter73
10-13-2011, 01:40 PM
USD was the underdog in their run, SMU was maybe the underdog a couple years ago. SCU would have to deliver a heck of a season without a star player but their OOC schedule is lame.

Good Luck.

jazzdelmar
10-13-2011, 02:17 PM
more power to them and their fans....it's all good.

jbslicer
10-13-2011, 02:27 PM
Kevin Foster will keep them in a lot of games. Remember when he scored 10 points in about 20 seconds against the Zags.

SWZag
10-13-2011, 02:29 PM
The more confidence the teams in this league have, the better the league will be.

SWZag

Worthington
10-13-2011, 03:40 PM
Didn't Santa Clara lose a game or two to some Canadian universities? I like their confidence and power to them, but personally I'm not seeing it happening especially without Traz.

zagzilla
10-13-2011, 03:53 PM
I would hope that these guys see themselves at the top of the league entering the season. That's what it's all about. Good for them. Everybody has got their hands full this year. However, without Traz, I think SCU will struggle to play at the top consistently.

Having said that, Foster is a great player and knows how to play GU tough. I'm sure I will curse his name at some point this season.

ZZ

RenoZag
10-13-2011, 03:56 PM
Kevin Foster will keep them in a lot of games. Remember when he scored 10 points in about 20 seconds against the Zags.

Do I have to ?

CanadianZagFan
10-13-2011, 04:56 PM
"to be the man you gotta beat the man"

http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/343080.jpg

woooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MickMick
10-13-2011, 05:19 PM
SCU can use a little swagger.

I think it's good for their program.

DCZag
10-13-2011, 06:02 PM
Lets hope they win some OOC games to bolster their RPI so when we beat them it helps us instead of hurting as usual - I'm for all the WCC teams being good, hope they win 'em all except against us (not the same for the Fuskies)

willandi
10-13-2011, 06:33 PM
Little Big Horn might not be the battle I'd choose as my analogy for Gonzaga v. SCU. As I recall, the underdog defeated a heavily-favored traditional power in that fight.

Seems that who was the underdog and who the heavily favored depends on which side of the war drum you were on. A small group of arrogant cavalry attacking a huge gathering of most of the warring tribes was simply a stupendously stupid move, kind of like attacking a rogue bull elephant with a swiss army knife...and you have the scissors open!

awberke
10-13-2011, 08:28 PM
Kevin Foster will keep them in a lot of games. Remember when he scored 10 points in about 20 seconds against the Zags.

Like it was yesterday. I was in the student section before that game and Kevin was shooting on a basket by himself with a rebounder, i watched him make ~20 three-pt shots in a row, without a miss, that's not an exaggeration.

That kid can shoot.

Saxon_zag
10-14-2011, 10:34 AM
They actually sound stupid saying that they see themselves as equal with SMC and us. Having confidence is expected and a good thing, but for Foster to say something like that coming off the CIT tournament sounds ridiculous.

ExtremeJim
10-14-2011, 05:53 PM
Seems that who was the underdog and who the heavily favored depends on which side of the war drum you were on. A small group of arrogant cavalry attacking a huge gathering of most of the warring tribes was simply a stupendously stupid move, kind of like attacking a rogue bull elephant with a swiss army knife...and you have the scissors open!

This is a popular supposition, to say that Custer was "stupendously stupid." However, it should be noted that everything in his military experience would have led him to believe all he had to do was charge down into that village and the opponents would flee. He was 18-0 in cavalry charges led during the Great War Of Northern Aggression, almost always with inferior numbers, and 1-0 against Native American opposition (The Battle of the Washi ta, 1968) though on that day the side of the Cheyenne camp he attacked was mostly occupied by the elderly, women, and children. The fact is that in that era of military history, the sight of uniformed, saber-wielding men on horseback bearing down on an opponent in disciplined ranks and files was about the most intimidating thing you could throw on a battlefield in the way of a mobile force.

The problem was, his men did not have their sabers with them on June 25, 1876. Because he feared the clanking of those swords and the attendant harness would alert the Indians to his pursuit and cause them to flee before he could engage them (as had been a problem throughout that summer campaign) he had ordered all the sabers collected and crated at the steamer Far West where it lay awaiting resupply duties near the confluence of the Tongue and Yellowstone Rivers.

I would submit that this is a case of command misjudgment at worst, not "stupendous stupidity." All of us Custerphiles constantly replay the battle in our heads, wondering if he might not have won despite the 8,000 to 260 numerical inferiority of force if they had only had the long knives in their hands. Several oral history accounts from the Indian side said in later years they were preparing to flee until the absence of the sabers was noted.

(My personal favorite "what if?" What if Custer had had JUST ONE Apache helicopter?!)

willandi
10-14-2011, 06:23 PM
This is a popular supposition, to say that Custer was "stupendously stupid." However, it should be noted that everything in his military experience would have led him to believe all he had to do was charge down into that village and the opponents would flee. He was 18-0 in cavalry charges led during the Great War Of Northern Aggression, almost always with inferior numbers, and 1-0 against Native American opposition (The Battle of the Washi ta, 1968) though on that day the side of the Cheyenne camp he attacked was mostly occupied by the elderly, women, and children. The fact is that in that era of military history, the sight of uniformed, saber-wielding men on horseback bearing down on an opponent in disciplined ranks and files was about the most intimidating thing you could throw on a battlefield in the way of a mobile force.

The problem was, his men did not have their sabers with them on June 25, 1876. Because he feared the clanking of those swords and the attendant harness would alert the Indians to his pursuit and cause them to flee before he could engage them (as had been a problem throughout that summer campaign) he had ordered all the sabers collected and crated at the steamer Far West where it lay awaiting resupply duties near the confluence of the Tongue and Yellowstone Rivers.

I would submit that this is a case of command misjudgment at worst, not "stupendous stupidity." All of us Custerphiles constantly replay the battle in our heads, wondering if he might not have won despite the 8,000 to 260 numerical inferiority of force if they had only had the long knives in their hands. Several oral history accounts from the Indian side said in later years they were preparing to flee until the absence of the sabers was noted.

(My personal favorite "what if?" What if Custer had had JUST ONE Apache helicopter?!)

Probably right as a Custerphile, I've been more interested in the Native side. First acquired an interested while doing seismic work along Piney Creek, out of Buffalo, Wyo. Saw a stone stele, went over and read the plaque. It was the site of the Wagon Box fight. I discovered that I was near Fort Phil Kearney, the Fetterman massacre, the Johnson County range wars and a HUGE amount of American history, and I had been blindly walking by. Have been hooked since.

ZagWhoShotLibertyValance
10-14-2011, 07:27 PM
interesting stuff. the most recent scholarship (that supersedes the 'Custer was a maniac' assessment) suggests that ExtremeJim is right on; Custer wasn't crazy and he adopted the strategy that was believed by most to achieve the highest probability of success--attacking the center of the native village. Native scholarship suggests that the 'battle' was never a battle, really-- Custer attacked the village, the defense began to crumble (as Custer had foreseen) but Reno began to be overwhelmed on the outskirts, Custer and troop fell back, the two thousand Crow and Sioux warriors attacked from the ridge, etc. The only real set battle was the end, which involved the deaths of the 7th Cavalry-- there is a very interesting argument being made recently that the fault lies not with Custer (who was always considered a coward or vainglorious for not going to the aid of Reno) but with Reno, who got himself involved in a no-win shoot out while the winning hand was being played (Custer's attack)--the revisionist argument is that Custer withdrew from the successful attack against the village, tried to support Reno and was wiped out in the process. Either way, I think Custer was foolhardy and a dangerous commander, but it does add fuel to the conversation . . .

Regardless, Santa Clara is second rate, even within the WCC, and will not be in the top four of WCC, which will be us, BYU, St. Mary's and USF.

sittingon50
10-14-2011, 07:51 PM
Tom Cruise didn't think much of Custer in "The Last Samurai", so I'll go with that.