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quadcityzag
06-30-2007, 07:39 AM
Is he going to be joining any summer league teams or is it off to europe?

bayzag09
06-30-2007, 11:14 AM
Raivio* is off to europe

BobZag
06-30-2007, 04:05 PM
Raivio was born in Belgium and he and his agent have been working on duel citizenship so he can play there without counting against a Belgian team's limit-of-two American players. There's serious money to be made there and it's tax-free. He may try to catch on with an NBA team via a summer league, but Belgium is looking realistic.

azzagfan
06-30-2007, 04:28 PM
It's not totally tax-free, only the first 82,500 is tax-free (which is still good). Many U.S. players don't qualify as you have to be overseas 330 days in a 12-month period. So, any summer league stuff, tryouts or vacations to see the family back in the U.S. will affect that. I use to live in Belgium and attended several games. They are below the Italian, French, Spanish and Greek leagues, but they have a few strong teams. Jason Gardner (Arizona) was one of the most notable Americans playing there when I was there a little over a year ago.

azzagfan
07-01-2007, 10:56 AM
Also, if Raivio is going to play as a Belgian, I doubt he'll avoid their tax laws (at which point he'll be begging for our tax laws, although he will have nearly free medical care). Thus, he may be paying the big 49% in income tax and 21% Value Added Tax (basically sales tax). Oh yeah, and you thought our gas was expensive.

kdaleb
07-01-2007, 12:29 PM
Raivio was born in Belgium and he and his agent have been working on duel citizenship so he can play there without counting against a Belgian team's limit-of-two American players.

Once you get Belgian citizenship, then you should be able to play anywhere in the EU w/o counting against the limit of non-citizen players.

soonerterp
07-01-2007, 04:43 PM
Theory Time:

Is it possible that NBA teams are now avoiding Gonzaga alums like the plague because of Morrison's rookie year which, as much as it hurts, wasn't up to the huge expectations?

I still find it a little bothersome that Raivio reportedly only worked out for two NBA teams (and those being the ones closest to his home, Portland and Seattle) and other than that it's like he's fallen off the face of the earth.

sanfranzagsguy20
07-01-2007, 04:57 PM
Theory Time:

Is it possible that NBA teams are now avoiding Gonzaga alums like the plague because of Morrison's rookie year which, as much as it hurts, wasn't up to the huge expectations?

I still find it a little bothersome that Raivio reportedly only worked out for two NBA teams (and those being the ones closest to his home, Portland and Seattle) and other than that it's like he's fallen off the face of the earth.

i doubt it...derek was a long shot to make an nba roster and i think most people knew that...

to me he would have made a great nba "closer"...bring him to ice the game with clutch free throws...

an nba gm i am not...but i think a weapon like that is worth a roster spot...jmo

soonerterp
07-01-2007, 06:44 PM
Wasn't Raivio in Chicago for a workout, too? Still, 3 teams out of the whole league isn't many.

No its not ... although I combed bulls.com and Chicago papers (the Sun-Times and the Tribune) and Raivio was never mentioned anywhere as having worked out for the Bulls. Then again, sometimes teams will not disclose who every player was that worked out for them.

I know I may need to be institutionalized or something but if I were Paxson I still would have chosen Raivio over Curry at #51. Furthermore, because its a 2d round pick and a non guaranteed contract, it isn't by any means a given that Curry will even make the team.

Zag79
07-01-2007, 10:59 PM
to me he would have made a great nba "closer"...bring him to ice the game with clutch free throws...

an nba gm i am not...but i think a weapon like that is worth a roster spot...jmo

great point! and green from FLA was drafted even though he is not as good as DR from the line, nor at anything else really. the NBA. ;)

azzagfan
07-02-2007, 06:17 PM
I think we all need to be realistic. The fact that Raivio is trying to work his "being born in Belgium" angle reflects the fact that he's even working hard to be attractive to European teams. And the free throw thing, an NBA team is not going to use one of its rosters on a guy just to shoot free throws. I have a friend who in high school almost never missed a free throw, was a good shooter and was a decent scorer but wasn't very athletic, guess what, no college scholie and he's a DJ in Seattle.

sanfranzagsguy20
07-02-2007, 06:39 PM
I have a friend who in high school almost never missed a free throw, was a good shooter and was a decent scorer but wasn't very athletic, guess what, no college scholie and he's a DJ in Seattle.

couldnt find anywhere in this post that said your friend was the ncaa's all time leading free throw shooter

that being said derek never really had an nba future and almost all of us knew that...i was just throwing an out of the box idea by signing a player to ice the game with free throws..couldnt think of anyone better to fill that role than d-rav...was never adamantly serious about it though

ZagMania
07-02-2007, 07:21 PM
We all know that Raivio's chances aren't good, but I think people are selling him short. Its not like the guy was just an amazing free throw shooter, he made huge strides last year in creating his own shot and moving without the ball (although I think he could put more effort into using screens better). Like previously noted, he is the same type of player as Taureen Green, but just better. There are plenty of guys in the NBA his size and few of them are first round picks or even drafted. I think his chances in the league are more a reflection of how the NBA evaluates talent than how good DR is. If he keeps working on his game and gives the NBA a shot every few years I could definitely see a team giving him a good look and I think he has the ability and will to stick.

Do I think he could succeed being the first scoring option being guarded by another teams stopper every night? No, but I think he could be a very good role player and his shooting could be a great asset to a team in a league where during the regular season the defense is pretty laxed.

soonerterp
07-02-2007, 08:42 PM
We all know that Raivio's chances aren't good, but I think people are selling him short. Its not like the guy was just an amazing free throw shooter, he made huge strides last year in creating his own shot and moving without the ball (although I think he could put more effort into using screens better). Like previously noted, he is the same type of player as Taureen Green, but just better. There are plenty of guys in the NBA his size and few of them are first round picks or even drafted. I think his chances in the league are more a reflection of how the NBA evaluates talent than how good DR is. If he keeps working on his game and gives the NBA a shot every few years I could definitely see a team giving him a good look and I think he has the ability and will to stick.

Do I think he could succeed being the first scoring option being guarded by another teams stopper every night? No, but I think he could be a very good role player and his shooting could be a great asset to a team in a league where during the regular season the defense is pretty laxed.

(bolded stuff is my emphasis)

I keep harping on about him vs. JamesOn Curry (who was introduced today by the Bulls ... sans braids ... I guess they made him whack 'em off, wonder if they'll require Noah to chop his locks off too) ... at least Raivio plays something at times that resembles defense, Curry is not so great in that department (that ought to endear him to Skiles right away ... sarcasm).

And yes I agree DRav is better than Taurean Green. I also think he's a little superior to Jared Jordan, the former Marist star who was drafted last week too.

Sorry, I sorta think DRav is kinda getting screwed for some reason. There's nothing wrong with Europe at all, but how do people know your skills when you only had the opportunity to work out for a grand total of TWO teams (possibly three).

I doubt seriously dude looks at this board -- he probably has better things to do, no offense intended to our hosts and moderators here -- but understand I wish that dude nothing but the best of luck. It is going to be soooo weird watching GU next year and not see him.

DrDrivel
07-03-2007, 12:36 PM
Hmmm... methinks posters on this board don't watch much NBA basketball. They certainly don't understand it. Yes, this is true of a lot of GMs, too, so don't feel bad.

Raivio is tiny. Physically, he would never survive an NBA season. He's a good shooter, but even one-dimensional NBA shooters often have some other characteristics that could be useful someday, like the size to set picks (Kapono) or excellent passing (Korver) - that or they play on a team with players who command a double-team. He is not quick enough or athletic enough to work through defenses. And while we're on the topic of defense, let's remember that Raivio is a below-average defender (partially because of size and slowness, as addressed above) without enough complementary assets to back them up. You can teach shooting. You can teach free throws. You can't teach speed, size, or length. Raivio has none of those.

But there's a place where that doesn't matter too much. The Rest Of The World. He'll fit a niche nicely for some run-and-gun perimeter-oriented team in Serbia one day and make himself a bundle of cash.

As for Taurean Green - the dude has two rings. Even if he's got some holes in his game, bringing winners into an organization of high school phenoms and morally wayward troublemakers is never a bad idea.

23dpg
07-03-2007, 12:48 PM
Hmmm... methinks posters on this board don't watch much NBA basketball. They certainly don't understand it. Yes, this is true of a lot of GMs, too, so don't feel bad.

Raivio is tiny. Physically, he would never survive an NBA season. He's a good shooter, but even one-dimensional NBA shooters often have some other characteristics that could be useful someday, like the size to set picks (Kapono) or excellent passing (Korver) - that or they play on a team with players who command a double-team. He is not quick enough or athletic enough to work through defenses. And while we're on the topic of defense, let's remember that Raivio is a below-average defender (partially because of size and slowness, as addressed above) without enough complementary assets to back them up. You can teach shooting. You can teach free throws. You can't teach speed, size, or length. Raivio has none of those.

But there's a place where that doesn't matter too much. The Rest Of The World. He'll fit a niche nicely for some run-and-gun perimeter-oriented team in Serbia one day and make himself a bundle of cash.

As for Taurean Green - the dude has two rings. Even if he's got some holes in his game, bringing winners into an organization of high school phenoms and morally wayward troublemakers is never a bad idea.

Although I agree that Raivio isn't NBA ready yet, he might find a roll in a couple of years. He needs to work on his passing and defense.

As for Green, I agree that you give a little more cred to a guy with 2 rings. But who on the Blazers is the morally wayward troublemaker? The JailBlazers are gone. Next year's lineup of Oden, Aldridge, Roy, Jack, and Udoka(if he resigns with the Blazers) are all high-character guys.

soonerterp
07-03-2007, 02:10 PM
... who on the Blazers is the morally wayward troublemaker? The JailBlazers are gone. Next year's lineup of Oden, Aldridge, Roy, Jack, and Udoka(if he resigns with the Blazers) are all high-character guys.

Precisely. The Blazers have worked damn hard to break that "Jail Blazers" tag. The only holdover left on the team from that era is Miles, and depending on what day it is, he's either trying to come back from microfracture surgery on his knee, or he's reportedly blimped out and retirement being bandied about.

Zag79
07-04-2007, 12:29 AM
Raivio is tiny.
and green isnt? the point isnt really that DR is an nba talent waiting for his chance more than its a question of why green is a better option for the nba considering DR is the better player in almost every aspect.

deathchina
07-04-2007, 08:23 AM
From what I read, Raivio really struggled at Portsmouth, while Taurean Green was impressive at the Orlando predraft camp (Portsmouth has a inferior level of competition compared to the Orlando camp).

Also, Raivio is NOT better in most areas of his game. He is an inferior passer, defender, creator/distributor, and as Drivel says, Green has TWO RINGS! Are you saying the rings are meaningless?

In any case, Raivio will make a good living in europe, and Green might join him there in a couple seasons anyways.

dim4sum
07-04-2007, 08:31 AM
My take is that Raivio has the speed to make some impressive steals, which he did last season, but in a boring half court game, he, himself, seems bored on defense and merely flails at the guy he defends and then backs off, enabling the shooter to either get off a shot or drive past him. That element of his game was obvious to all scouts.

Scotto
07-04-2007, 10:09 AM
great point! and green from FLA was drafted even though he is not as good as DR from the line, nor at anything else really. the NBA. ;)

Thing is teams will take a chance on a guy who was on Championship teams because winning isn't something you can teach. If you have two guys who are similar, one was a two time National Champion or one who didn't have much tournament success. Who would you draft?

DrDrivel
07-04-2007, 01:04 PM
Well, and furthermore, I don't anyone was ever faced with the binary choice of Taurean Green or Derek Raivio. Certainly not the Blazers. It was never a dead heat.

As for the Jailblazers comments, I was never arguing that the current squad is carrying that torch. I'm saying that any team, no matter where they stand in the league today, would be wise to incorporate true winners. And with players like Miles and Zach Randolph (I think the Green pick occurred before the trade, but if not, I apologize), you don't need a whole lot of other evidence. High school phenom... morally wayward big-money guy.

deathchina
07-04-2007, 03:32 PM
Say what you will about zach randolph...but he did average 24 points and 10 rebounds last year in the West, and Scottie Pippen has been quoted saying "Randolph works as hard as any player I've ever played with"...

Think about who Pippen has played with...

Character aside, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zach puts up some serious numbers for the knicks next year.

soonerterp
07-04-2007, 06:57 PM
Say what you will about zach randolph...but he did average 24 points and 10 rebounds last year in the West, and Scottie Pippen has been quoted saying "Randolph works as hard as any player I've ever played with"...

Think about who Pippen has played with...

Character aside, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Zach puts up some serious numbers for the knicks next year.

You're right, he probably will.

CDC84
07-04-2007, 08:41 PM
I doubt Derek would join any summer league teams.....even if he was offered. His agent is entertaining European offers, and if somebody comes out with a nice deal, which will occur, he needs to split. He'll make more money playing overseas than anything that could possibly happen for him in the NBA, which is next to zero. Plus, he'll get all the shots he wants.

This is a case and always has been a case where a passport is going to come in handy.......

Zag79
07-08-2007, 02:54 AM
is an inferior passer, defender, creator/distributor, and as Drivel says, Green has TWO RINGS!
:lmao: dr would have two rings if played for fla too! pmac would have. think what you will about green but downplay dr unrealistically. he will show what hes got at the nba summer league he just got signed to.