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izzjess
05-14-2011, 08:52 AM
So i was just wondering how many people on this board play or have played serious basketball, IE-organized basketball (being coached and playing for a team...as for me---(and im far from being an excellent player) BUT...played high school ball...and have been playing constantly for about 14 years, and still play hoopfest every year...
The reason i bring this up is, I feel that being a player lets you understand the game the way others cant...and wanted to know who here understands the game from a players viewpoint... not to say if you haven't played you cant understand the way basketball works.. i just wanted to know who here views it the through a players eyes...

JPtheBeasta
05-14-2011, 09:27 AM
I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Or I might have just lied about that. Maybe it would be more efficient to set this up as a poll... If you are wondering who is credentialed to have an opinion, you should probably just add me to your ignore list.

SteveAztec
05-14-2011, 09:33 AM
So i was just wondering how many people on this board play or have played serious basketball, IE-organized basketball (being coached and playing for a team...as for me---(and im far from being an excellent player) BUT...played high school ball...and have been playing constantly for about 14 years, and still play hoopfest every year...
The reason i bring this up is, I feel that being a player lets you understand the game the way others cant...and wanted to know who here understands the game from a players viewpoint... not to say if you haven't played you cant understand the way basketball works.. i just wanted to know who here views it the through a players eyes...

Bingo. It is two different worlds. And each level is a little different.

I played JC basketball in NoCal in the early 70's, and had a cup of coffee with a NAIA school as a junior. Both levels were different. The NAIA was such a step up in every way than JC ball.

I then ended up in San Diego at San Diego State. I tried to walk on there (they had one spot open). The Aztecs were a NCAA and NIT team those two years. The step up in competition was amazing. I got cut but played many pick up games with guys that were on the team.

Different level, different mindset, different passion for competition.

I have many friends that know a lot about basketball, but what I know from actually playing and knowing how players feel from that side of the game they don't know and can't ever know.

That is not to diminish what those know about the game, who never really played past High School.

FieldHouseFishHouse
05-14-2011, 09:39 AM
So i was just wondering how many people on this board play or have played serious basketball, IE-organized basketball (being coached and playing for a team...as for me---(and im far from being an excellent player) BUT...played high school ball...and have been playing constantly for about 14 years, and still play hoopfest every year...
The reason i bring this up is, I feel that being a player lets you understand the game the way others cant...and wanted to know who here understands the game from a players viewpoint... not to say if you haven't played you cant understand the way basketball works.. i just wanted to know who here views it the through a players eyes...

It's an interesting question.
I probably have a similar experience - came up through high school, really developed in college athletically (inter-murals, Hoopfest, rec-leagues, pick-up nearly every day) but didn't play for GU, have been playing for the last five years as much as I can.
I think to acquire this perspective you are talking about (difficult-to-define-insight into the college game), it helps to have had success at the high school or college level AND/OR to have some experience playing with or coaching top-level D1 talent.
Some might say basketball is basketball, at whatever level. There is some truth to that, but the athleticism and size of the players at you move up the levels (HS to D1 to pro-ranks) is very difficult to imagine unless you experience it.
I had some very memorable experiences playing with some of the Zags. I can remember making some of my best moves when Matt Bouldin, LG or Will Foster would come down to play ball after the season (they may have been dogging it). Those guys actually shrank the court and made what I thought were universal basketball strategies worthless, it also taught me how much good competition can motivate and effect your personal performance.
I took a charge from Josh Heytvelt once, let me tell you it was not like anything I would have imagined. I was 6'6'' 210 at the time and I'm thankful that Josh had the body control to avoid hurting me.
I also got dunked on by Pargo once. I saw it coming....and I was about 99% sure I could stop him, but he planted, put his forearm in my chest, cocked back the right hand.....if you want to know the rest you can find plenty of examples on YouTube.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that you can observe basketball from the sidelines for years and never experience the mass, force and speed that this game involves. That knowledge/experience can change your opinion of strategy and give you a sense of what is and is not possible on the court (as in, I did my best to prevent JP from getting to the rim......but it didn't matter).

CaliforniaZaggin'
05-14-2011, 09:56 AM
"Did someone say they want a player's perspective?"

http://www.bestsaxophonewebsiteever.com/wp-content/uploads/snoop-dog.jpg

SpudDawg
05-14-2011, 10:00 AM
Good post. I will be interested to see if any of the arrogant big mouths reply.

Me = high school ball ... lots of bench time with spurts of floor time. Followed by 16 years of rec league ball in various cities in WA and ID. Played against a fair number of current (then) and former small-college players. Even played a few times against Brian Kellerman, the ex-Vandal who had a brief NBA career.

BJZags
05-14-2011, 10:10 AM
Interesting thread. No playing experience beyond Class-A Oregon High School ball, but it gives me a tiny insight into the commitment needed to play. What gave me a real frame of reference change was my two years coaching at the junior high level. I learned than how difficult it was to win a game, regardless of the talent level you might have compared to the opposing team. If I felt this "stress" at the 8th-grade level, I can't imagine how much it is ratcheted up for big-time college ball!

FieldHouseFishHouse
05-14-2011, 10:13 AM
Good post. I will be interested to see if any of the arrogant big mouths reply.



I had the same thought, get ready for the waters to be muddied.

RockandRollJames
05-14-2011, 10:14 AM
I've played basketball my whole life, including all 4-years of high school and AAU. It's important to note that I have a few intramural championships here at GU and am "shooting" for more next year. I agree with the point you are trying to make. In general, I trust people who have played a lot more than people who haven't.

izzjess
05-14-2011, 10:36 AM
so what position did, or are you playing....each position will have a different perspective..(I play point guard) being that im only 5/8...

MickMick
05-14-2011, 10:48 AM
Bench warmer in high school for two years. Lots of Rec/church league ball. Lots of pick up games. Brian Kellerman (http://www.govandals.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17100&ATCLID=1583588)was the best player I have played against (in a pickup game). All long ago.

Football was the sport of choice for me. I played and/or coached for 11 years until my line of work wouldn't allow for the extra time. At one time, I considered myself a real student of the game. Regardless, organized team sports have many common aspects.

One of my best friends has a daughter that went through the recruiting process. She played elite AAU hoops (Spokane Stars), received interest from almost every school in the WCC, Big Sky, a few PAC 10, a few MWC, and Tennesee of all places. She ended up taking a scholarship to play volleyball at Idaho. She made first team all WAC as a true freshman. That was my introduction to seeing first hand how recruiting in the modern era works.

So I guess I'm not overly qualified to be anything more than a fan. I once told a certified electrician that I know just enough about wiring to be dangerous (I honestly know more though :)). Put me in the "arrogant big mouth" category if you like but let me quote Richard Pryor: "You don't get to be old being no fool. There are a lot of young smart men that are deader than a Mother%^&#$%"

What I do is read.....a lot. I also try to combine past experiences with common sense. I believe in Scientific Method. In other words, I trust observation to prove theory more than just trusting theory itself. With respect to hoops (especially GU hoops) I observe a great deal.

Finally, I don't buy into the "you must have proper credentials" or otherwise you are an unqualified "big mouth" theme. Who sets this "credential" criteria? Everyone is entitled to an opinion here. If more often than not, you are part of the consensus, then your line of thinking can't be too far off from being realistic.

It is wrong to diminsh the "qualifications" of those that post here. Building a fan base is good. Chasing away fans is bad. Just read what people are saying and form your own conclusions. If you feel compelled to do so, "call out" those that you think are dead wrong.

JPtheBeasta
05-14-2011, 11:42 AM
Mick: to be fair to the OP, the credential wording was mine, so sorry if I got you riled up. I wasn't sure what the original slant of the thread was supposed to be, and I'm still trying to figure that out.

***

I think people bring different things to the board here- some are on campus and around the players, some have connections with the staff, others played high level ball, others are students of the game, and others have been humbled enough times in pickup by college players to know the jump in ability and competitive level, for example. But I'm pretty sure all of us love GU basketball (although at times it is hard to tell with a couple people). Different perspectives are good. If this thread is a celebration of past basketball history, anecdotes, nostalgia, etc- that's great. I just want to make the point before things got carried away that one doesn't have to have played big-time ball to "get" basketball and have valid opinions- just ask either of the Van Gundy NBA coaches.

CB4
05-14-2011, 11:44 AM
CIS in Canada and 2 years D1. HMD.

SpudDawg
05-14-2011, 11:45 AM
MickMick, I don't consider you to be an arrogant big mouth. Even if I did, it would just be my opinion and who am I, right?

Anyone can have a blog or post on a blog. Take me, for example. I'm no expert, but I'm a longtime fan and at least I played the game some. So I have a little bit of a clue.

There have been a lot of arrogant, disrespectful comments on this board lately. I suspect some of them are coming from people who think they know the game because they've watched it a lot and consider that to be a substitute for playing the game.

The arrogance and rudeness are unnecessary, but seemingly reflective of society these days and of people feeling like the anonymity of the Internet makes them bulletproof.

Kiddwell
05-14-2011, 12:21 PM
Kiddwell has played Crazy 8's and Go Fish--do those count?

:]

NYCZAG
05-14-2011, 12:28 PM
I won a division 3 National Championship-Played 2 guard at Williams College-Played in Rucker's tourney five years in a row and have scrimmaged with plenty of NBA players at Reebok Sports Club on upper west side NYC-

ZagsObserver
05-14-2011, 12:29 PM
Here's a different perspective. I ran cross country at Gonzaga, and was a top runner, even getting all-conference honorable mention honors. However, at Gonzaga, at least when I attended, they did not offer scholarships to runners. Of course, we put in the effort. We would run upwards of 100 miles/week in the offseason, and two-a-days during the season - rain, snow, ice and shine, we were out there every day. Now, I realize it's all a simple relationship of whether the sport is friendly to viewers, and cross country isn't to the general populance. Many of the runners were engineers as well, so their dedication to GU athletics at the D1 level was admirable.

Where am I going with this? There are a lot of people out there supporting GU athletics personally and dedicating much sweat and time in the process, and while we didn't carry the burden of having to meet fan expectations, we also didn't get cheered for or supported in virtually any sense. I understand the talent and effort needed to compete at a high level, and I don't think you need to have played basketball specifically to grasp that concept.

bigparb
05-14-2011, 12:39 PM
HS only for me........played football in college.....could have played baseball too if not for the ridiculous time commitment that would have been required to play both.......but I digress....

Did Few play college ball?

Did that coach for New Jersey Nets --Lawrence I think?--play college ball?

I think this threads a not starter.......playing matters if u putting together a Hoopfest team or some other team, but clearly coaches at the highest levels don't need to have College or pro experience to be effective.....

I, along with most of you, have probably been able to gauge the "quality" of a coach pretty quick----I trust you do the same with the posters on this board.....

I'll continue to measure the worth of what I read but the quality of the content as posted......and will not ask for anyone's qualifications before deciding just how much weight I'll give to said opinion....kind of ridiculous if you ask me....wait you didn't....oh well, still think its ridiculous...

Salsageek
05-14-2011, 12:59 PM
I have extensive training on Nintendo's "NBA Jam" back in the day... Does that count? :D

americasteam
05-14-2011, 01:05 PM
I think it's an interesting question, just to hear the different responses people have. Those that have played, think it's important, and those that haven't, many don't think it is.

However, those that played other sports in college get the point that it is a very labor intensive proposition to perform at the college level, keep your grades up, and toe the line when others around you aren't (I think of Klay Thompson here. He succumbed to the pressure around him with regards to marijuana.) Much pressure in college athletics! Those that have played any sport at the collegiate level, get it.

As for basketball, if you've never played, except a round of horse, you are possibly missing out on understanding some of the nuances. Proper screening, how to hold long enough to release on a pick and roll, how to get around screens when the sole purpose of the other guy is to stop you, etc.

bulldoginpdx
05-14-2011, 01:55 PM
I will freely admit off the bat as I have tried to by introducing (in my own way) that I'm a overly competitive and arrogant mofo.

I never played beyond 4A high school basketball. I did not have the body Im 5'7 at best maybe 5'8 to where even if I wanted to play competitively beyond that I didn't have the guts to do it. It's one of my biggest regrets in my life. But do I know a players perspective and what it takes to play the level of ball it takes to get even a slim chance to play for the beloved bulldogs, you better believe it.

I can rightfully be arrogant in my post's because I never fooled myself at any point in my life that I would ever be able to "make it" so to speak.

Baseline
05-14-2011, 02:58 PM
I think it important to have experience to draw on when commenting on a topic.
I played 4 years of ball starting in the 5 grade. I was big for my age and was the tall man on the floor, just through me the ball and I will shoot, thats how I got the name, "Big Gun". By the 2nd year the guys were catching up to me and my point totals started going down. It was a real slide from there, by my 4th year I wan't seeing much time, but did get to play for 2 minutes in the 8th grade championship.
Loving Basketball I naturally tried out for the Jr. Varsity in high school, but didn't make the squad, as it was in a competitive district of South Dakota, where the competition was fierce.
Still wanting to be close to the game I tried out for cheerleader and made it. I can honestly say I pioneered that whole area being the first male cheerleader to try, let alone be selected. It was tough as it was a farming community and the Cowboys didn't appreciate the finner points of the art. I was able to stay close to the team and attend all the games, picking up great pointers about the game. I used this knowledge to play Saturday games in open gym and dominate the play. I developed a signature move driving the Baseline and use that as my name here on the GU forum. Am I bragging, maybe, buts its what I have done the best in in my life and I'm proud of my athletic achievements.

HillBillyZag
05-14-2011, 03:23 PM
This is akin to saying that if you were not a jockey?, you know nothing about horse racing . I played four years of H.S. Varsity hoops . Was back-up to an All State Center for two years and a starter my junior & senior years . I played one season of College ball at a Division 3 school before a gimpy knee, limited mobility and lack of a left handed hook , showed me that I would be better off else where . Joined USAF after school and either my game improved or the competition got worse , as I made my Base All-Star Team . All of this was many moons ago and now all I do is continue to love and observe the game and root for my favorite teams , my Indians , Cav's & Browns, with Gonzaga being my Collegiate favorite.

zagsfanforlife
05-14-2011, 03:32 PM
PLayed D3 ball now coach D3 collegiate basketball

Baseline
05-14-2011, 04:13 PM
Hoarse racing I know, had ponies I ran at golden gate Redwood City. Learned that the best horse doesn't always win, the horse that has the biggest heart, thats where you put your money.

fedwayzag
05-14-2011, 04:24 PM
Played high school b-ball and recd scholarship to play at SCC.
Tried to play but not good enough. Did play some high level town team tournements. Play against the one and only Craig Ehlo once. Took a charge but because he was the "big" name and was called for a block. Pretty funny.

I know two brothers one an outstanding player and the other below average. Both are coaches. Guess which one is the better coach. the one with below average skills. My theory is some great players do ont make good coaches as the game is to easy for them.

izzjess
05-14-2011, 05:04 PM
wow....Im am blown away by how many of you guys are ballers.....i think this is awesome.. GU boards rocks my face off... end of story...

Hoopaholic
05-14-2011, 05:08 PM
High School 3A starter in baseball and basketball all 4 years , baseball in college(thought was best chance for a living) for while until I was stupid and had to take care of my son(so I can speak from experience about pre marital sex and how it can ruin your aspirations)

Coached HS Football, basketball and baseball at Peninsula HS (3A) Odea (3A) Eastside Catholic (3A) and Kahlotus (B)..total of 18 years

Coached Adidas summer league travel squad basketball in the 1990's (before AAU was huge in Seattle) and have coached multiple D1 athletes, D2 and a score of NAIA and Juco kids during my coaching time in all three sports.

Son was All state in basketball

no more playing for me as have two knees that have been worked over on the job injuries but love the game

Hosted and worked multiple select, invite camps over the years


but even still I value everyones opinion and still learn tidbits and perspectives even from this forum and I love it.

snebzag
05-14-2011, 06:09 PM
I like to watch.... Where is my remote.

A to Zags
05-14-2011, 06:54 PM
Played and started 3 years in high school. One teammate was all state (Illinois) and then all Big 10 and another played NAIA in Iowa. This was long ago shortly after they cut a hole in the peachbasket. Played one year D1. The day I got kneed in the back of the head while standing upright I reconsidered my athletic potential and pursued a professional career, wisely so. I have never lost my zeal and love of the game as several of my friends and teammates have had very long and successful coaching careers. I've never felt I am more in touch with the game than some of my non-playing friends but playing has enriched me in so many ways.:bishop_smiley:

webspinnre
05-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Played HS baseball, mostly on the bench, founded GU's Ultimate Frisbee club team which has been very successful on a regional level, currently coach HS volleyball. I don't buy that a person has to play at a particular level to understand a sport.

FieldHouseFishHouse
05-14-2011, 08:20 PM
This thread is unusually civil. Mostly posters just sharing their experience, I like it.
I think even someone who is physically incapable of playing basketball can achieve a high level of understanding. However, there are certain nuances related to talent evaluation that may be difficult to pick up. For example, it is easier to recognize when and how a player is can be physically dominating, more skilled or is "out thinking" or "out hustling" his opponent when you have had the physical experience of playing against good players.
Basketball is a contact sport - not everything about the game can be observed. Some things have to be felt or performed to truly understand.
I would post these additional questions:
Have you ever played on a championship team, made a game-winning shot or dunked a basketball (a few competitive/physical achievements)?
If not, do you think you understand how it feels?
If so, do you think you understand better?

Coug Tracks
05-14-2011, 08:22 PM
I don't buy that a person has to play at a particular level to understand a sport.I don’t believe it’s a requirement to have ever played a given sport to understand it. Obviously, it helps though. However, I do believe it is almost impossible for someone who has not been a D-1 athlete to really appreciate the level of commitment, time, energy, etc. that it takes. Beyond just the physical talent it takes most wouldn't make it mentally or physically through a week of practice and workouts in football, basketball, track, wrestling, and on and on.

OZZY
05-14-2011, 10:25 PM
Played High school ball, 2 years as a starter, soccer as well. Have Coached soccer, futsal, and cricket for a total of 10 years, qualified soccer referee. Currently father of two teenagers.

Of all sports, I love basketball the most and have followed Canadian high school basketball for decades, obviously from a distance. GU fan since PMAC (now playing in Morocco) signed up.

SWZag
05-15-2011, 01:41 AM
Here's a different perspective. I ran cross country at Gonzaga, and was a top runner, even getting all-conference honorable mention honors. However, at Gonzaga, at least when I attended, they did not offer scholarships to runners. Of course, we put in the effort. We would run upwards of 100 miles/week in the offseason, and two-a-days during the season - rain, snow, ice and shine, we were out there every day. Now, I realize it's all a simple relationship of whether the sport is friendly to viewers, and cross country isn't to the general populance. Many of the runners were engineers as well, so their dedication to GU athletics at the D1 level was admirable.

Where am I going with this? There are a lot of people out there supporting GU athletics personally and dedicating much sweat and time in the process, and while we didn't carry the burden of having to meet fan expectations, we also didn't get cheered for or supported in virtually any sense. I understand the talent and effort needed to compete at a high level, and I don't think you need to have played basketball specifically to grasp that concept.

Good post and glad to see another XC runner on the board. I think it's important to note that most sports are the same. I'm not saying that someone who is in gymnastics can instantly jump into basketball.

(Will try to express what I'm thinking and makes sense of it)

When you take on a sport (any sport) seriously, there are things you learn and become "expert" at; technique, mental toughness, endurance, etc. For example, being a runner, you become an expert using proper form. Form is as important in running as it is in shooting a free throw. I believe that if you become an "expert" in one sport, you can translate that to being a knowledgeable observer of another. Sports really aren't that different. As a spectator, although I played a few years of organized basketball, you can easily pick out someone who doesn't have the right technique, etc. I'm not discounting the fact that playing basketball is probably the best way to add to your overall knowledge of the sport, but others can be "experts" in other ways and can definitely add different points of view to this board, which can be very insightful.

Make any sense?

That said, I don't care for non-sense posts, regardless. If a person played basketball professionally it's still non-sense.

SWZag

Edited to add: I failed to mention that you can become knowledgeable in more than just technique etc. For example, team game, plays/strategy, etc. As a point, Cross country is the ultimate team sport. It takes Everyone on the team to perform or you can't win. You can't have one or two studs and expect to win, like you can in other sports.

MickMick
05-15-2011, 06:47 AM
Good post and glad to see another XC runner on the board. I think it's important to note that most sports are the same. I'm not saying that someone who is in gymnastics can instantly jump into basketball.

(Will try to express what I'm thinking and makes sense of it)

When you take on a sport (any sport) seriously, there are things you learn and become "expert" at; technique, mental toughness, endurance, etc. For example, being a runner, you become an expert using proper form. Form is as important in running as it is in shooting a free throw. I believe that if you become an "expert" in one sport, you can translate that to being a knowledgeable observer of another. Sports really aren't that different. As a spectator, although I played a few years of organized basketball, you can easily pick out someone who doesn't have the right technique, etc. I'm not discounting the fact that playing basketball is probably the best way to add to your overall knowledge of the sport, but others can be "experts" in other ways and can definitely add different points of view to this board, which can be very insightful.

Make any sense?

That said, I don't care for non-sense posts, regardless. If a person played basketball professionally it's still non-sense.

SWZag

Edited to add: I failed to mention that you can become knowledgeable in more than just technique etc. For example, team game, plays/strategy, etc. As a point, Cross country is the ultimate team sport. It takes Everyone on the team to perform or you can't win. You can't have one or two studs and expect to win, like you can in other sports.


Well said. As for my first post, my reaction was probably an over reaction and you do a fine job of covering this topic.

There is a slight argument for those that say "you don't really know what it feels like" if you have not played high level hoops.

Then again, when you strap on your football helmet and jog on to the field to the roar of a packed house, the adrenaline surge takes you to new heights. You sort of know what it "feels like". You can watch one play swing momentum and you sort of know what it feels like. You can have a coach scream positive/negative expletives in your ear and you sort of know what it feels like. You can be in a tight game and win/lose in the last moments and sort of know what it feels like.

Yeah, I think I have a sense for what some of these kids are going through. Perhaps that is why the GU/UCLA tournament game was so tough for me. I saw how extremely hard it was for Morrison to take that loss and I felt his pain. It reminded me of a similar feeling I went through long ago.

stevet75
05-15-2011, 07:00 AM
I played one year of high school basketball, but was built like a linebacker and played like a linebacker, so I ended up playing football in high school and in college, tell I hurt my back.

FuManShoes
05-15-2011, 07:39 AM
I never played a lick of organized basketball growing up. Tennis was my game and I took it seriously. Now I play pickup ball and just consider myself a fan of the game and a fan of the Zags. I try not to comment too much on the motivations of the players because I have no right to and no idea what's in a man's heart or head. Frankly I think that goes for all of us, whether we've played high-level sports or not.

Hoopaholic
05-15-2011, 08:15 AM
I would also add that I have some very close friends who coach at the high end High school level and college level and are VERY succesful but never played past high school in any sport, some even were cut from their high school teams.

While I understand the assumption that to "do it" equates to knowing and understanding it...I personally disagree and have found many competent, understanding, technically expert people who have never set foot at a college or pro playing field and can teach, motivate, understand and lead.....those are the 4 qualities that equate to successful coaching in my opinion

to TEACH you must understand the technical aspects of the subject, be able to explain "why" , be able to explain why you are doing something vs doing it another way, be able to recognize when a technique or approach is incorrect and make immediate corrections.

Motivate..you must be able to zone in on each individuals personalities, strengths and weakness and be able to tap the strengths, mitigate the weakness on a consistent day in day out basis and minute by minute basis

Understand...you must be able to understand your teams issues, complexities, concerns, strengths, weakness, personalities and tie them all together to make a smooth, seamless result

Lead....you must lead not manage, you must strive to be better every day, every minute on the practice or game. Your team from coaching down to the athletic trainers must trust in you, believe in you and want to excel for you. You have to relate to them as if they were your own children and if this is phony they will know it. This deep leadership is the difference between average and exceptional in my book and is an ongoing every second of every day because the team is watching and if it is just done in words and not action you are sunk.

DADoZAG
05-15-2011, 08:33 AM
This thread is unusually civil. Mostly posters just sharing their experience, I like it.

Celebrate and share the similarities, and the differences are easily tolerated.

Hoopaholic and I have traveled similar paths, no wonder I enjoy his posts.

Great thread. Very nice indeed.

Go ZAGS!

BoZarth
05-15-2011, 08:50 AM
Played HS ball and lots of other ball since then.

I do think unless you have played Division 1 ball at the highest level you can't fully understand what the Zag players go through. Or the coaches for that matter.

I do, however, believe it is NOT a requirement to play ball at that level to understand the game.

Best player I've played with - John Stockton. I was at GU for a camp and he and 4 others college guys needed a 6th for a game of 3 on 3. I was the "chosen" one who teamed with Stockton. We won, of course.

Go Zags!!!!

bballbeachbum
05-15-2011, 09:04 AM
interesting thread, enjoyed all the posts. it's fun to talk about the glory days. if you want to read mine, they are below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsEkhy7fGLw

played high school and was coached for 5 years, but none after high school. I was the definition of an average point guard who spent as much time on the pine sitting next to a coach as I did on the floor, then was a religious Tu-Th-Sat guy, injuries willing, through my late 30s, when a ruptured achilles made me a more avid fisherman going forward. miss playing a lot, it's as much fun as I've had doing anything in my life

anyway, much more effective soccer player (I'm 5'8"), but blew out my knee second to last game senior year. recovered, walked on at a junior college, made the team, then tore my hamstring. I am one of those brittle guys evidently :)

used to run with a ballplayer from Syracuse. he was the head basketball coach at a local high school which needed a JV coach, and he gave me the gig, gave me my start. miss coaching a lot. have also coached high school soccer, and swimming.



my experience with experience is that it can just as easily blind one (me too) to insight as illuminate it, and from any perspective true insight may arise.

btzag
05-15-2011, 12:54 PM
my experience with experience is that it can just as easily blind one (me too) to insight as illuminate it, and from any perspective true insight may arise.

Yes, definitely an interesting thread to think about...

I've gone around in circles on this one and then read the above sentence and it summed up perfectly what I was thinking. Playing experience gives you great insight into what some players go through but not necessarily ALL players.

As far as experience translating into knowledge that just isn't always the case. Some experienced players get so stuck in THEIR experience that they can't see beyond that single viewpoint, others it is the exact opposite. My initial thought is that there are probably many high level coaches or media (newspaper/tv/radio) professionals that maybe did not have the physical skills to even play in HS. Obviously they managed to gather the knowledge somehow and have had successful careers in the industry which leads me to believe that you do not need direct high-level experience to gather BB knowledge. However direct experience lends a different perspective that you just cannot duplicate....ugh, going in circles again...

Great thoughts and discussion!

maynard g krebs
05-15-2011, 01:46 PM
Fun to see other folks' experiences. JV basketball was the end of the line for me. Stopped growing at a shade under 5'10 after soph yr of hs., and in suburban Philly the competition's pretty good. I could shoot and pass, but too slow to play guard and too small to play in the frontcourt, so it was saturday open gym and intramurals after that.

Played hs soccer and two years at NAIA nonscholarship level, in the seventies when American soccer basically sucked and if you had some skills and understood positioning, you could make up for lack of athleticism more than in hoops.

Still play pickup ball regularly at 56.

Birddog
05-15-2011, 03:27 PM
I turned out for the "B" squad football team at St Als when I was an 8yr old 3rd grader. Played football (and some BB) every year through 8th grade but was an undersized bench warmer every year. Transferred to a small country HS and played football, JV BB, and ran track. Probably would have been a bench warmer as a SR baller, but was injured from football. Held the school record for the mile and 2 mile. In HS was told by the coach I'd get a scholly to Eastern if I got my mile time down to 4:30 ish. Got close but nagging njuries prevented that.

Enrolled at GU and went to an open tryout for the swimming team as a freshman. Despite never having been on any organized swim team the coach gave me a flyer. I got a partial scholly and steadily improved. As a Sr, I medaled at conference (probably would have as a JR too, but was in Florence). After college, I played some adult amateur hockey and later a little team BB out in the boondocks of New Mexico. I've been a skier for 52 years and have taught skiing for the last 25. I've also been an avid cyclist (started out as a triathlete) for over 20 years. I'd say playing BB has been a minor part of my sports life, but I've been active in some sport since that day when I was eight. BTW, that's when I picked up my nickname. There was one helluva a sports culture back in the St Als/Gonzaga neighborhood in the 50's and 60's. I caught the bug then and it's never left.

MickMick
05-15-2011, 04:50 PM
This thread is why I respect Craig Ehlo as a broadcaster. I know some of you don't like him in that capacity, but I do and he certainly fits the "been there done that" criteria.

We will see how he does as a coach.


And before anyone wants to call this post a "hijack".

Think about it for a moment.
For those that aren't Ehlo fans, it does possibly challenge a few assumptions made in this thread.

Reborn
05-15-2011, 07:17 PM
It was really fun reading about your experiences in athletics and especially basketball. Really good posts. I was all-state in basketball and football, and received scholarships in both sports to play collegiate ball. I was a part of two undefeated state championships, one if football and one in basketball.

I'm very proud to say that I played Div 1 basketball at Gonzaga University, and started 3 years. I have always appreciated my time at Gonzaga, as many of you have. My experience there in basketball I hope adds a little bit to this board.

I mostly coached my two sons and thier friends from the time they were 6 years old. I coached football, basketball and baseball. I took two AAU teams to nationals and finished in the top 16 one year in Orlando, Florida. That was cool.

A person does not have to be a great basketball player to be a good coach. If you know enough about sports you know that. It helps tremendously if you have played, however. And if you were a successful athlete and/or coach, I think it helps when analyzing the game.

I don't think much about this kind of thing as a GUBoard member. I don't blog here because I think I know a lot about basketball. I blog here because I love Gonzaga University basketball, just like you. I also like the small community of people who do write on this Board. I like being a part of this Board because there are all kinds of different people who write here with very different background and experinces, not only in sports but in life. I like the diversity here on this board.

Angelo Roncalli
05-15-2011, 07:32 PM
HS basketball, baseball and soccer at a "B" school. Never a starter in basketball, started at second base senior season. Debate was the "sport" in which I had the most success.

Discovered distance running during my junior year at GU. I never won a road race, but became good enough to win a trunk full of trophies and medals at community road races--best distances were 10 miles and the half marathon. Was pretty devoted while I was in law school at Idaho. Won the intramural cross country title at Idaho twice. Ran a handful of training runs with Henry Rono at the time he held 4 world records (they were leisurely training runs for him; I was running all out). Captained a co-ed team that placed third in the co-ed division of a five-member relay from Riverfront Park to the top of Mt. Spokane (about 37 miles). Completed 3 marathons, including New York. Best time was 2:59.04.

Refereed HS baseball and softball while in law school.

Coached middle school track at Cataldo where our teams won 3 CYO city championships. St. Al's was our biggest rival. Two of my girl runners went on to win state titles in high school.

Coached girls youth basketball for 4 years in Seattle.

None of which, I suspect, gives me any insight into what it is like to be a D-1 basketball player.

MDABE80
05-15-2011, 09:04 PM
I have an MD and a PhD in hoops. But I did play 4 seasons in HS....and coached for 3 years. Then the world came crashing in;)

rennis
05-16-2011, 07:20 AM
Didn't play in highschool, wish I had. Been a gym rat since I was 12. I am a starter in the puget sound basketball league. For what team and which day/division, I will never tell you. :p

I've played in pickup games with a whole lot of the Zag greats. Those guys are amazing to watch when they're just screwing around...

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-16-2011, 08:19 AM
My perspective is mostly that of a very enthusiastic fan who loves the game and loves Gonzaga.

I was a marginal h.s. basketball player and played mostly as a defensive substitute when my team's better post players got into foul trouble. I played some intramural ball as an undergrad and later in grad school. My favorite memory of "playing" Gonzaga hoops was when Felix McGowan's intramural team played mine. (His was the law school team after he had graduated). McGowan basically played a game of H-O-R-S-E while we pretended to defend him - calling ever more exotic and ridiculous shots and daring us to block them. I don't think he ever missed.

gozagswoohoo
05-16-2011, 09:00 AM
*raises hand*

TexasZagFan
05-16-2011, 09:02 AM
I think it important to have experience to draw on when commenting on a topic.

Using that logic, then:

1. If you haven't been a cop, you can't comment on law enforcement.
2. If you haven't been in the military, you can't comment on troop deployments.
3. If you don't have a law degree, you can't comment on Supreme Court decisions (or other legal matters).
4. If you aren't a CPA or tax attorney, you can't comment on the US tax code.
5. If you've never played organized basketball,

THEN STAY THE HELL OFF THE GU HOOPS BLOG, DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :argh:
















:lmao:

a13coach
05-16-2011, 09:12 AM
Using that logic, then:

1. If you haven't been a cop, you can't comment on law enforcement.
2. If you haven't been in the military, you can't comment on troop deployments.
3. If you don't have a law degree, you can't comment on Supreme Court decisions (or other legal matters).
4. If you aren't a CPA or tax attorney, you can't comment on the US tax code.
5. If you've never played organized basketball,

THEN STAY THE HELL OFF THE GU HOOPS BLOG, DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :argh:
:lmao:

You mean I cannot comment on anything except being a computer geek? :)

:agreed:+1

Good post TZF.

gozagswoohoo
05-16-2011, 09:32 AM
I guess I can only comment on topics deemed "PMTA"

cjm720
05-16-2011, 09:44 AM
I was cut from 7th grade basketball tryouts, that's my extent of organized basketball...well, other than several years of unsucessful hoopfest and puget sound basketball league teams.

I have an awful shot and barely 5'8" but I am Zag Material :)

Baseball and soccer were my better sports, but hoops was my passion. Played pickup games at lunch and after school from freshman year in highschool through Gonzaga (noon and 3 PM at Martin center) and about 10 years post college in pick up games in Seattle. I've had the pleasure of playing with/against many GU players, with Mr. John Stockton being the most memorable.

Ezag
05-16-2011, 02:53 PM
I understand it all, it is right here in this book http://www.radiostanford.org/Pics/hitchikers.jpg

Baseline
05-16-2011, 02:59 PM
I think its important to speak out on all subjects, you don't need knowledge or facts, we live in an opinion based world and I have maxed that to the extreme.

snebzag
05-16-2011, 06:41 PM
I'm very proud to say that I played Div 1 basketball at Gonzaga University, and started 3 years. I have always appreciated my time at Gonzaga, as many of you have. My experience there in basketball I hope adds a little bit to this board.


I guess for those of us NOT in know, the next thread should be "Who is Reborn?"
His posts have always been very B-Ball savy. Now I know why. But who is Reborn? Is the mask down a bit or am I just sooooooooooo slow I don't know. I read stuff like "I got cut from JV." to "I was a three year starter at GU." Sorry, Inquiring minds want to know.

CarolinaZagFan
05-16-2011, 07:51 PM
Played high school basketball, but baseball is what helped pay for college.

Reborn
05-16-2011, 09:45 PM
I think its important to speak out on all subjects, you don't need knowledge or facts, we live in an opinion based world and I have maxed that to the extreme.


There's a huge difference between an opinion and an informed opinion. There was once a time if you weren't informed about what you had to say, few people would listen to you. Those days are obviously gone. Today, the less informed you are, and the crazier your notions are, the more people listen to you, especially if you're republican. It is interesting because I listen to a lot to political news casts and sports are always sited as one source where people are not listened to unless they have facts.....as it should be, imo.

Reborn
05-16-2011, 10:06 PM
I read stuff like "I got cut from JV." to "I was a three year starter at GU." Sorry, Inquiring minds want to know.

The quote "I got cut from JV." never came from me. That's the truth. In my day at GU (1966-70) Freshmen played Freshmen ball, and it may have been called JV. I was a starter and captain of the team. I was the second leading scorer behind Joe McNair who was one heck of a player in those days at GU. Joe and I both started our Sophomore years, and Joe went on to make all Big Sky as a Sophomore.

kingzag
05-16-2011, 10:38 PM
Reborn=Dick Walter , six foot guard from Yakima.

MDABE80
05-16-2011, 10:50 PM
ooooooooooooo....maybe Reborn should be the one to unmask....if he wants to.

Baseline
05-16-2011, 11:40 PM
There's a huge difference between an opinion and an informed opinion. There was once a time if you weren't informed about what you had to see, few people would listen to you. Those days are obviously gone. Today, the less informed you are, and the crazier your notions are, the more people listen to you, especially if you're republican. It is interesting because I listen to a lot to political news casts and sports are always sited as one source where people are not listened to unless they have facts.....as it should be, imo.

I pretty much agree that you don't have to know the facts these days. The loudest talker or the most persistent seems to win most discussions. Sevillety is fast disappearing. For the most part the GU people are well behaved compared to society in general. A big part of the problem on having an informed opinion is that most people don't realize they are uninformed. Me, I love basketball, but I know I'm uninformed and try and avoid certain things that give me away.

Reborn
05-17-2011, 06:42 AM
Reborn=Dick Walter , six foot guard from Yakima.

For the satisfaction of inquiring minds (I'm glad to see their are still some around). I am unmasked. Good job kingzag!

I played at Marquette High School, an all-boys Catholic school in the A league. At that time the classifications were B, A, AA and AAA. Marquette was undefeated state champs in 1965. I guess that's where I first gained recognition at the state level. I think many people were surprised that someone from a small A school in Yakima, Washington could make it as a starter at Gonzaga.

Speaking of Yakima, there's a great pointguard playing here now from Davis High school. HIs name is David Tremble. Unfortunately for David, the pointguard position seems to be filled at this time and in the near future.

zag944
05-17-2011, 07:01 AM
while potentially providing a unique understanding, I dont know that it necessarily provides a better one. If Im not mistaken, Sam Presti only played like 2 years of DIII ball and has been a substanially better evaluator of talent than greats like Larry Bird, Isiah Thomas, or Michael Jordan.

As a general rule athletes probably know/understand more because its a significant part of their life, if not a job. Watching 100-150 bball games a year by no means makes me an expert, but I would never deny that someone couldnt obtain a top notch understanding of the game if they were really studying it.

Juanzaga
05-17-2011, 07:51 AM
For the satisfaction of inquiring minds (I'm glad to see their are still some around). I am unmasked. Good job kingzag!

I played at Marquette High School, an all-boys Catholic school in the A league. At that time the classifications were B, A, AA and AAA. Marquette was undefeated state champs in 1965. I guess that's where I first gained recognition at the state level. I think many people were surprised that someone from a small A school in Yakima, Washington could make it as a starter at Gonzaga.

Speaking of Yakima, there's a great pointguard playing here now from Davis High school. HIs name is David Tremble. Unfortunately for David, the pointguard position seems to be filled at this time and in the near future.

Those are tremendous accomplishments Reborn! You should be very proud, but seem most humble. No wonder you are so passionate about the point guard position.

Reborn
05-17-2011, 08:16 AM
Thanks for the nice compliments, Juanzaga. Being proud and being humble often go together quite nicely. I was taught that at Marquette High School. I had a great coach there who taught us the meaning of both. Hank Anderson was a great coach and treated me like a son. Hank, Rich Juarez and Bud Presley all contributed to my life in a big way. Bud Presley had the most impact on my personal life.

GodZaga76
05-17-2011, 08:24 AM
I wasn't allowed to play basketball in school, I wrestled and did freestyle and greco. I won 2 state championships and love wrestling, but I always played summer ball to this day, I now coach 5th grade girls AAU basketball team. Some of my favorite times were every summer playing down at the courts by the lake in COEUR D'ALENE. Ronnie and the guys back then would come down and play, and yes even though I was always able to dunk a ball even being just 6 ft, one of my fondest memories was Turiaf dunking on me and knocking me to the ground, and then reaching down and saying "you all right little man" with his big smile on his face. Good times

gamagin
05-17-2011, 09:22 AM
Thanks for the nice compliments, Juanzaga. Being proud and being humble often go together quite nicely. I was taught that at Marquette High School. I had a great coach there who taught us the meaning of both. Hank Anderson was a great coach and treated me like a son. Hank, Rich Juarez and Bud Presley all contributed to my life in a big way. Bud Presley had the most impact on my personal life.

He lived two doors down from us.

One of his bro's, J.J., was a coach & teacher @ G Prep for many years and a bigtime ref, too. Jim, another brother (I think Bud was the youngest -- they were a couple decades ahead of me) taught and coached in CA and never returned.

His mother taught a bunch of burly GU and Gonzaga High School (the H.S. was roughly where Welch hall is now) athletes how to sing like birds. Some of them still get together and sing to this day, at weddings and funerals, though their numbers have dwindled. They were really, really excellent and most of them played sports and sang in the GU choir for years, too.

There were dozens of Prep and GU athletes, progeny of Mike Pecarovich and Puggy Hunton, who went on to teach, coach & ref (mostly) football & basketball throughout the state, as well as in the Northwest leagues, the Pac 8 & Pac 10 sports. It wasn't unusual to see one or more GU coach or grad reffing in the rose bowl. Bud followed his brothers in to the trade and enjoyed great success. He had a lot of inspiration to guide him, too.

It wasn't uncommon to see a couple of GU coaches butt heads in competition over the years who used to play or coach or ref (or all 3) together. Particulary those in the Billy Frazier 39 year (or so) era & reign at G. Prep from the 40's through the 60's.

A famous coach at Seattle Prep, John Goodwin, played for Frazier and for years after that, there were comparisons as to which high school team was the best in the state. They went back and forth every year.

Unfortunately, in those days, teams were ranked by polls. Only later, after both Goodwin and Frazier were long gone, did the two Catholic (and Jesuit) powerhouses go at it. But even then, come game time, there was no love lost and every snap was taken personally. I doubt the combatants even knew why they hated each other. I do. And now you do, too.

But as to the Presley's, they were just wonderful people. and tough as nails when it was required. Smart as whips when it mattered. The whole block, and the whole neighborhood was that way.

We woke up to a rather high bar, starting right inside our own houses. It was four older brothers for me. And you jumped it or died trying, qualifying you to finish your cereal and begin the daily task of navigating the two blocks, and another dozen future superstars, just to make it to St. AL's school.

Or you'd head west on Boone, past a whole other dozen or so College superstars, past DeSmet hall, pass by the temptations of the old gym on the left, or Dutch's Inn, on the right, cut through the main administration building to look at all the pictures of past classes and glories, just to get to mass or Confession at St. Al's church.

It's amazing what memories the mention of Bud Presley triggered here, Reborn. Thanks for mentioning him. May he RIP, too.

Reborn
05-17-2011, 09:36 AM
Your mention of Dutch's Inn certainly triggered some wonderful memories for me. We used to eat there after the games. But my best memories were when I worked there for a season flipping burgers. I'm not sure when it was (my memory is certainly getting worse) maybe one summer that I stayed there, or Spring or Fall. lol I loved that little place. For me I think about all the students who have gone there and all the wonderful conversations there about the History of Gonzaga sports. The owners certainly had it all together in terms of GU Athletic history. I loved talking to him.

gamagin
05-17-2011, 12:08 PM
Dutch and Mae Ryan were the owners. I worked there for awhile, feeding the basketball players after the games. Maybe you were one of them, but I suspect I was gone by then.

Dutch was dead by the time I went to work there. This would be about 7th or eighth grad. t So as not to blow my role up too high, I washed the dishes & mopped the floors for $1 per hour, plus a shake and cheesburger at the end of the shift. I also washed windows on weekends, took orders in rush times and occasionally rang in a sale.

Mae and her daughter, Pattie, did the cooking and serving.

But we used to go to the joint all the time as kids, on the way to the gym, usually to play. Besides all the GU pictures all over the walls, there were also pictures of all the championship St. Al's teams. Dutch would treat us all to ice cream on the day our framed team pictures were placed on the wall.

It was a big deal. Our teams won everything 6-7-8th grades, all three sports, citywide. we had a few team pix scattered about.

It was a great source of pride.

Colbyspapa
05-17-2011, 12:56 PM
HS only for me........played football in college.....could have played baseball too if not for the ridiculous time commitment that would have been required to play both.......but I digress....

Did Few play college ball?

Did that coach for New Jersey Nets --Lawrence I think?--play college ball?

I think this threads a not starter.......playing matters if u putting together a Hoopfest team or some other team, but clearly coaches at the highest levels don't need to have College or pro experience to be effective.....

I, along with most of you, have probably been able to gauge the "quality" of a coach pretty quick----I trust you do the same with the posters on this board.....

I'll continue to measure the worth of what I read but the quality of the content as posted......and will not ask for anyone's qualifications before deciding just how much weight I'll give to said opinion....kind of ridiculous if you ask me....wait you didn't....oh well, still think its ridiculous...

Lawrence Frank never played anything above 2 years of high school ball, went to Indiana and bugged Bobby Knight every day for a year before Knight would let him be the team assistant manager. Over the next 4 years, he earned a masters and worked his way onto an unpaid assistant for Indiana. Then went up from there. This premise of this post is wrong in my opinion. I played 4 years of high school, lived with GU players while at GU, played pickup with them, coach AAU and Lawrence Frank still understands the game way more than I. I consider myself a student of the game having now coached for many years, however, you don't have to have played D1 ball to understand what elite athletes must go through mentally and physically. It is possible to immerse yourself in sport.

LynetteG
05-17-2011, 01:21 PM
I have an MD and a PhD in hoops. But I did play 4 seasons in HS....and coached for 3 years. Then the world came crashing in;)

No, then you shocked the medical world with some very unconventional thinking and treating heart disease has never been the same. Thank you for your contributions to science!

snebzag
05-17-2011, 06:32 PM
Mr. Reborn

Your mention of David Tremble of Davis. I remember most likely his father of the same name at Davis in the 70's. I remember it a "Trimble" but, yes the memory is a delicate thing. I'm sure it is the same family. I lived up the canyon road about 30 miles in the town Doug Rehaume came from. I hope you played with him at GU. I played against Doug in city leauge softball. He was larger than life. He could hit a softball a country mile. Serious. Big, Big man. Did you know Steve Dale from Ike? He worked summers haying at my fathers ranch.

ZaggyStardust
05-17-2011, 06:49 PM
Going into my Jr. year in HS in Cd'A I was playing B'ball with the neighborhood boys and one of them flipped the ball to me real hard... I tried to catch it, and it jammed three of my fingers, breaking my middle finger. This was one week prior to my scheduled audition (violin) for the Spokane Jr. Symphony. I did survive the near "beat to death from my dad" (God rest his soul) and went to my audition, took the splint off my finger and played the most horrific rendition of "Bach Double Concerto for Two Violins in D Minor" ... I guess they felt sorry for me cuz I got the gig even though I was placed in the back of the Second Violin section.... (Guess they figured I couldn't do much damage there.) Anyway since they really didn't have organized Women's B'ball in those days I was stuck playing with the neighborhood boys. And that's the extent of my playing. But I have been a fan of the game since the 60's - and was lucky enough to live in Seattle when the Sonics won the Championship (was a season tix holder) and am most proud to be a Zag Fan!

Hoopaholic
05-17-2011, 07:34 PM
wow a 1979 flashback...wasnt that fun times

Reborn
05-17-2011, 08:29 PM
Mr. Reborn

Your mention of David Tremble of Davis. I remember most likely his father of the same name at Davis in the 70's. I remember it a "Trimble" but, yes the memory is a delicate thing. I'm sure it is the same family. I lived up the canyon road about 30 miles in the town Doug Rehaume came from. I hope you played with him at GU. I played against Doug in city leauge softball. He was larger than life. He could hit a softball a country mile. Serious. Big, Big man. Did you know Steve Dale from Ike? He worked summers haying at my fathers ranch.

Dennis Trimble is David's father. I know him well and played both with and against him in rec ball in Yakima. Dennis was a good basketball player in highschool but better in football. David is also a great football player. I'm not sure what sport he will play in in college.

Steve Dale is a very good friend of mine. Our sons went to high school together and I actually coached Steve's son in baseball I think. Steve and I and our families have always been close. He is a great man. He was perhaps the best football player ever in Yakima. Yes. He played at Ike in '65 and they were state champs. He went on and played at USC but unfortunately he got beat out by OJ Simpson.

Doug Rehaum was one of my best friends at GU. WE spent a lot of time together. He's was also a teammate of mine and he could really shoot the ball from the outside. Doug passed away last year. Doug played for Ellensburg High in highschool. They were AA. I followed his high school career closely and I was glad he came to GU because we were practically neighbors.

Reborn
05-17-2011, 08:37 PM
Great story Zaggystardust. It's stories like her's, and the other one's here, that I think makes this a very good board sometimes. It's nice to read about a little bit of the real side of our posters. I will attest to the truth that Zaggystardust knows a lot about basketball. Probably more than me, or at least as much. She bleeds GU blue folks, and her athletic story will attest to her deep passion for the game of basketball.

eastsideballer
05-17-2011, 09:36 PM
This has to be the best off season thread of all time. I have really enjoyed reading about everyones trials and success with the great game of basketball.

I was an All League player in HS, played four years in college, coached at that level for a few years until I had my oldest then patiently waited until he could palm a ball (lol at age 4 I think). Spent the next five years coaching his AAU team then helped coach his travelling team during the summers he was in HS. Today he is playing DI ball and of course I couldnt be prouder.

I dont know if having played and coached necessarily gives one a leg up on understanding the game. For me I think I see it differently, not better just differently. With the internet as an avenue to information, analysis being thrust upon us from every angle, I think information is more readily available to every fan to digest and learn from. Just as I learned the nuances of the game on the court it can easily be argued that others can learn the same from these sources of external information.

Either way, I know there are a lot of good posters on this board, a lot of you have both facts and opinion and I enjoy reading throughout the year. As you can see from my lack of posts I prefer to lurk and read than join in the discussions.

Heres to more threads like this one and to a great upcoming WCC season.

MDABE80
05-17-2011, 10:09 PM
Zaggy...lol...best story!
Eastside..I agree. Best thread!

We all hiss, spit, grump, yell, chortle and even shed a few tears...all season long. Even when our kids win, we do it.....will the losses all that much more.
I guess, as some age, we overlook the selected issues with the coaches, teams, kids, etc. as they become part of an ever enriching history.

We still have the passion and it shows daily, sometimes hourly and even minute by minute in the game threads.

We're saddened to lose the kids who end up not being good enough and certainly those who get injured and never really get back to the level we expected. They were on campus and walked the same grass most of us walked on at one time or another over the decades. I used to mow every inch of the campus...fixed the sprinlers...and cleaned the dorms. I know the place clean and dirty. I'm privleged.

I've lost track of how many people are members, how many posts in the last ten plus years. Quite lots though since the founders lite the place up.

While I don't know all of the posters, I do know a few of our better enthusists have passed from the scene here. I miss them. Sometimes ...well actually all of the time...we argue, disagree and some are put in the "corner" for a bit.

No matter, we all are here to grow with and celbrate the ags...the basketball boys in shorts. it's our pupose. I've loved the stories put forth. Congrats and thanks to all of us who spent some time sharing your bball history. Post more! This is just my own thought as the day closes.

Zag79
05-17-2011, 11:07 PM
i love this thread, 5 stars! i enjoyed seeing how many people actually know hoops from a "players perspective". it should create more mutual respect for those you dont know aside from a post here or there if you ask me. not many would argue with a starting gonzaga hoops player, yet some do it all the time with reborn. wonder how many of these people even played at the high school level... as for me, i have played hoops since i was 13 and played competitively all the way up to college at the D1 level for two years. i continue to compete in rec leagues along with 10+ summer 3 on 3's every year. hoops is a huge part of my life, if im not playing im watching. college, mens and womens, the nba, you name it. as for coaching, i think it gives you another important view of the game if you have played. it definately helped me understand things a little differently. that being said, i dont believe you have to have played to be a good coach. many great players cant coach a lick, while some of the best coaches werent good enough or tall enough to play. to the OP, kudos on the thread! :000tens:

zagnut2012
05-18-2011, 01:59 AM
I played hoops for a small northern Idaho town in the A4 Division the "Northstar League". (ooh sounds cool). I started 9 games as a freshman and in our senior year, we were the 8 seed going into the Regional tourney and won knocking off the top 2 seeds. We made it to the championship and lost by 3 points. It was a long bus ride back from Boise. But we did get to play in BSU's arena and take a pen from the Governer's desk. We were also recognized by the State Representative from our District at the Capital while it was in session. They stopped proceedings and gave us an ovation. Kinda cool. Baseball was my calling and made it to the JC level with a walk-on at North Idaho College.

Ahhhh the "Glory Days"

Good Times.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it...


Zagnut 2012

gu03alum
05-18-2011, 03:37 AM
I played organized ball from grade school until my Junior year of high school. I was on the JV squad my sophomore year that went 0 for the season and the coach only kept 1 or 2 guys from that team the next season. The Freshman team had won their league so their was some talent a class behind me. I was the center on that team which was a position that was thrust upon me due to the lack of height on the team. I had always been a guard growing up. At 6'2" and 160 pounds I had a lot of trouble down there. I had a good summer league leading up to my Junior year and felt like I had figured out how to play in the post, but I played poorly in tryouts and was asked to stay as a practice player/statistician. Being 17 I took that as an insult and told the coach no. I probably should have looked at it as an opportunity to improve and maybe get a shot if an injury or suspension occured. Oh well, regrets.

I have since filled out and have played a number of years of county rec league. I've played Hoopfest probably 8 or 9 times even winning a tshirt (13th place though). I played at Aprilfest at Gonzaga either 2 or 3 times. That was some of the best competition I have faced. I have always been impressed with the amount of talent I have come across when I have played against regular students at Gonzaga.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-18-2011, 05:40 AM
[QUOTE=Reborn;668715]For the satisfaction of inquiring minds (I'm glad to see their are still some around). I am unmasked. Good job kingzag!
QUOTE]

Will the great Bob be the next one to discard his mask?

Zagdawg
05-18-2011, 06:25 AM
Played hoops until I was a sophomore in high school.

I have some great memories of those days.

I recall the first week of practice being so sore that I could hardly move...nothing like the smell of bengay in the morning....:) (running lines, full contact rebounding drills and running some more lines.......).

Spent many a night on the long bus ride back to the where I went to school both elated after a great win and feeling a down after a loss-- but some great team chemistry and camaraderie.

izzjess
05-18-2011, 06:41 AM
Thank you--thank you--thank you!!!!

Reborn
05-18-2011, 07:22 AM
i love this thread, 5 stars! i enjoyed seeing how many people actually know hoops from a "players perspective". it should create more mutual respect for those you dont know aside from a post here or there if you ask me. not many would argue with a starting gonzaga hoops player, yet some do it all the time with reborn. wonder how many of these people even played at the high school level...

Thanks for your confidence in my analyses, Zag79. Ha ha ha. You made me feel proud for a second. But honestly, I am not a GUBoard member because of my ability to play basketball. In fact I have never wanted to take my mask off because I thought people may respect me TOO MUCH. As Eastsideballer said so well, that having played basketball at the Div 1 level and or coaching doesn't give anyone an upperhand in discussions about basketball. As you must know, I am wrong about what I think or see just as much as the next guy. And this board would never be what it is if we all agreed. I think most people who play sports are pretty competitive, and many who haven't played are competitive too. It's our nature I think. I am very competitive, and I like getting into a heated discussion sometimes the way we do around here sometimes.

Everyone seems to have a common thread here, we all played hoops outside or "on the streets." If you have, then you know that "ballers" love to argue and fight when there isn't a ref around. They push and shove, and hit you hard and NEVER THINK THEY HAVE FOULED YOU. I learned quickly when I was a kid that you keep your mouth shout and don't cry or you'll never get to play again (I was always playing with my older brothers, 3 and 4 years older and their friends). I have always appreciated those older guys that I grew up playing with for teaching me to be tough. Learning that went a long way in helping me learn to be a good basketball player. It's the same here on the board I think. You have to be tough here, or most likely you won't make it. I know people have fear of posting here because they are afraid they will be "HIT HARD" or criticized. They are right. Athletes, I think more than any other group of people, never think they are wrong. Maybe we have larger egos than the normal person.

This post has help me understand something that I think I have missed in life, and maybe because I was more the player or the coach then the fan. Reading your stories has showed me the love that you all have for this game, and the love you have for Gonzaga University basketball, and the University. I think it's the love for the game that draws us here. It's the love for playing hoops "in the streets" that keeps us coming back. Blogging here has helped me keep my love for the game alive. It keeps me stay connected to Gonzaga University as well. I'm older now, way too old to play basketball, and coming here to chat with you all makes me feel like I'm still "in the game" if you know what I mean. Again. Thanks for your testimonies. I must admit, that reading a few of them has helped me like you more....hahahahahahahahaha. I mean I can I fight with MDABE now that I know he has mowed the university lawns, cleanded the dirty dorm rooms and picked up all our trash. Way to go ABE. You are not only a doctor but a guy who learned to be a janitor as well....you're my kind of guy. I grew up mowing all the church lawns and washing and waxing the school floors (all for the love of the Church and fear of my mom). lol

demian
05-18-2011, 08:22 AM
great post dad (reborn)

Thanks for your confidence in my analyses, Zag79. Ha ha ha. You made me feel proud for a second. But honestly, I am not a GUBoard member because of my ability to play basketball. In fact I have never wanted to take my mask off because I thought people may respect me TOO MUCH. As Eastsideballer said so well, that having played basketball at the Div 1 level and or coaching doesn't give anyone an upperhand in discussions about basketball. As you must know, I am wrong about what I think or see just as much as the next guy. And this board would never be what it is if we all agreed. I think most people who play sports are pretty competitive, and many who haven't played are competitive too. It's our nature I think. I am very competitive, and I like getting into a heated discussion sometimes the way we do around here sometimes.

Everyone seems to have a common thread here, we all played hoops outside or "on the streets." If you have, then you know that "ballers" love to argue and fight when there isn't a ref around. They push and shove, and hit you hard and NEVER THINK THEY HAVE FOULED YOU. I learned quickly when I was a kid that you keep your mouth shout and don't cry or you'll never get to play again (I was always playing with my older brothers, 3 and 4 years older and their friends). I have always appreciated those older guys that I grew up playing with for teaching me to be tough. Learning that went a long way in helping me learn to be a good basketball player. It's the same here on the board I think. You have to be tough here, or most likely you won't make it. I know people have fear of posting here because they are afraid they will be "HIT HARD" or criticized. They are right. Athletes, I think more than any other group of people, never think they are wrong. Maybe we have larger egos than the normal person.

This post has help me understand something that I think I have missed in life, and maybe because I was more the player or the coach then the fan. Reading your stories has showed me the love that you all have for this game, and the love you have for Gonzaga University basketball, and the University. I think it's the love for the game that draws us here. It's the love for playing hoops "in the streets" that keeps us coming back. Blogging here has helped me keep my love for the game alive. It keeps me stay connected to Gonzaga University as well. I'm older now, way too old to play basketball, and coming here to chat with you all makes me feel like I'm still "in the game" if you know what I mean. Again. Thanks for your testimonies. I must admit, that reading a few of them has helped me like you more....hahahahahahahahaha. I mean I can I fight with MDABE now that I know he has mowed the university lawns, cleanded the dirty dorm rooms and picked up all our trash. Way to go ABE. You are not only a doctor but a guy who learned to be a janitor as well....you're my kind of guy. I grew up mowing all the church lawns and washing and waxing the school floors (all for the love of the Church and fear of my mom). lol

Reborn
05-18-2011, 11:21 AM
great post dad (reborn)

Demian is my son, and did play basketball and football in highschool. He was a good solid player but not a star. He played very little his Senior year, but won the inspirational player award voted on by his teammates. Somehow, that kind of summed it up about him. Even though he didn't play he was still a great teammate on the bench, always encouraging his buddies and his brother on to victory. I think some of you are like Demian. However, he has always loved the games, football and basketball.

I was probably a better athlete then him, but he is definitely a better coach then me. Demian is about as good as coach as there is, imo, and he definitely knows the games at least if not better than me. He is my number one guy that I talk to about sports and especially Gonzaga basketball. Sometimes we will talk for 3 hours after a game, especially if they lose. He helps me vent so I can be somewhat calm by the time I hit the GUBoard. We have our differences of opinions too, but we also have a lot of respect for each other. I think last year was the most challenging year for him and me, and imo for most Zag fans too.

For those of you who are dads and have young kids, for me one of my greatest treasures in life is being able to talk sports, and especially GU basketball with my two sons. Yes I have two, but one doesn't post here. But he loves Gonzaga too. My greatest joy is watching a Zag game with my two sons, and even to watch it with just one is pretty good. I'll tell you we can really really get crazy, my sons now more than me. Having your sons grow up and get older is really really fun because then they can disagree with you freely and that's makes life really interesting. Like you, we are still waiting for that run where the Zags make it to the final 4. Could next season be the year?

former1dog
05-18-2011, 11:45 AM
In fact I have never wanted to take my mask off because I thought people may respect me TOO MUCH. As Eastsideballer said so well, that having played basketball at the Div 1 level and or coaching doesn't give anyone an upperhand in discussions about basketball. As you must know, I am wrong about what I think or see just as much as the next guy. And this board would never be what it is if we all agreed.

Your best post ever Reborn. Probably because if you didn't make this point, I was going to have to! ;) :D

Reborn
05-18-2011, 12:09 PM
Geeeze Former1dog, I was truly hoping to read your basketball history. You are one of the few guys left that I would LOVE to know how much bball you played, or watched, or just your personal experience....PLEASE????????

Hoopaholic
05-18-2011, 03:43 PM
Hey Zagdawg...by your description of "practices" are you sure you didnt play for me?????? Bengay was issued in the 'spirit pack" along with socks, shorts and practice jersey .......I still remember first time parents at the high school level, opening that spirit pack up and have the most "shocked" loook on their face as freshman or transfer would hold out BENGAY and look to me.....I simply shrugged the shoulders and said "oh you will know what its for"...

ZaggyStardust
05-18-2011, 05:18 PM
Thanks for the compliment, Reborn.... But I will never know more about b'ball than you! Glad you are finally outed! It's about time! Love everyone's stories. Kind of like a big group hug....

:adored:

demian
05-18-2011, 09:17 PM
Hey Dad
thanks for the nice compliment about coaching that is probably the best compliment I have ever been giving and it means a whole lot coming from a great coach and player like yourself. I love what you said about me being the person you vent to for 3 hours about the team after a loss on the phone, then when you get to the message board you are a little calmer, that is hilarious. I remember the day I told you about this message board about 5 years ago or so. Man you got hooked quick. Glad you still post on this board, I love reading your thoughts. Looking forward to our 3 hour post game talks this coming season.
Demian is my son, and did play basketball and football in highschool. He was a good solid player but not a star. He played very little his Senior year, but won the inspirational player award voted on by his teammates. Somehow, that kind of summed it up about him. Even though he didn't play he was still a great teammate on the bench, always encouraging his buddies and his brother on to victory. I think some of you are like Demian. However, he has always loved the games, football and basketball.

I was probably a better athlete then him, but he is definitely a better coach then me. Demian is about as good as coach as there is, imo, and he definitely knows the games at least if not better than me. He is my number one guy that I talk to about sports and especially Gonzaga basketball. Sometimes we will talk for 3 hours after a game, especially if they lose. He helps me vent so I can be somewhat calm by the time I hit the GUBoard. We have our differences of opinions too, but we also have a lot of respect for each other. I think last year was the most challenging year for him and me, and imo for most Zag fans too.

For those of you who are dads and have young kids, for me one of my greatest treasures in life is being able to talk sports, and especially GU basketball with my two sons. Yes I have two, but one doesn't post here. But he loves Gonzaga too. My greatest joy is watching a Zag game with my two sons, and even to watch it with just one is pretty good. I'll tell you we can really really get crazy, my sons now more than me. Having your sons grow up and get older is really really fun because then they can disagree with you freely and that's makes life really interesting. Like you, we are still waiting for that run where the Zags make it to the final 4. Could next season be the year?

SWZag
05-18-2011, 10:41 PM
Everyone seems to have a common thread here, we all played hoops outside or "on the streets." If you have, then you know that "ballers" love to argue and fight when there isn't a ref around. They push and shove, and hit you hard and NEVER THINK THEY HAVE FOULED YOU. I learned quickly when I was a kid that you keep your mouth shout and don't cry or you'll never get to play again (I was always playing with my older brothers, 3 and 4 years older and their friends). I have always appreciated those older guys that I grew up playing with for teaching me to be tough. Learning that went a long way in helping me learn to be a good basketball player. It's the same here on the board I think. You have to be tough here, or most likely you won't make it. I know people have fear of posting here because they are afraid they will be "HIT HARD" or criticized. They are right. Athletes, I think more than any other group of people, never think they are wrong. Maybe we have larger egos than the normal person.


Great posts Reborn et al. As it's been said before, it's been one of the greatest threads on this board. Hands down. And maybe it's just me, but I get far more competitive and when a ref is involved. I don't know why, but pickup ball keeps me pretty mellow and more for fun. Once it becomes "organized" everything is on the line. Now to playing outside...

I grew up playing outside on a concrete slab built specifically for basketball. As us kids grew up and moved out, it has now just become just an additional parking spot. The hoop has now become more of a symbol of the past and the thousands of games played. I still have memories of mom's vocal warnings to not ruin the flowers by either missing a loose ball or putting a little too much effort into chasing an errant pass. We weren't always the best medicine for the petunias, pansies and marigolds. The net has become rotten with the seasonal rains and the once white backboard has chipped and lost it's color revealing the plywood beneath. The large wooden pole, once a telephone pole, that held up the whole hoop contraption has now cracked after decades of weather. The hoop wasn't quite 10, more or less 9'10, but we didn't care, it was a hoop, it was our hoop, and it was basketball. It's this hoop that used up years of my childhood. And each minute has fond memories, from elbows to the face, bleeding hands and knees to freshly made cinnamon rolls and chocolate chip cookies from mom during a time out. Playing with a ball that would be completely smooth from it's contact with the concrete that when it rained, it was like playing with a greased pig. Rain or shine, the bouncing of the ball could be heard. From neighborhood kids to school friends, this hoop was the center of the universe. My dad played on an amateur team that went around to different towns in the area and play makeshift city/town teams for fun. He said they rarely won, but it never gets old hearing him talk about the players on his team, their nicknames, their heights, and the games they played. And it's moments like these make memories of my childhood that much greater.

SWZag

Reborn
05-19-2011, 12:34 AM
Thanks for the compliment, Reborn.... But I will never know more about b'ball than you! Glad you are finally outed! It's about time! Love everyone's stories. Kind of like a big group hug....

:adored:

It's funny ZaggyStardust because I was thinking the same thing, the group hug thing.....It's definitely a unique thread. I'm thinking maybe it's a good sign of the unity to come to the Zags this season. I'm always looking for some kind of a "sign" you know. This really could be it. hahahahahahaha

former1dog
05-19-2011, 08:56 AM
Geeeze Former1dog, I was truly hoping to read your basketball history. You are one of the few guys left that I would LOVE to know how much bball you played, or watched, or just your personal experience....PLEASE????????

I'll bite, Reborn. Quite frankly, I was a decent collegiate distance runner at GU. Honorable mention all conference as a frosh and then 3 years first team all conference so to sr years in XC. Held Gonzaga school record for track 10k for 10 years.

Obviously I was pretty busy with a sport I actually had talent in, but growing up on the "Rez", you play basketball as naturally as you brush your teeth or get dressed for school. Being 5 feet nothing and 112 lbs in 9 th grade ended my organized bball career, but like every other kid I grew up with, I pretty much played every day. We would play pick up before and after track practice in high school. :) That is probably part of the reason I was always in such good shape and started to excel as a distance runner. My basketball habit continued at GU where I played pick up games and intramural ball. My track probably didn't know I was playing! (shhh, don't tell him)

BTW - My childhood buddy, Felix McGowan, was a starter for the Gonzaga men's basketball team in the early 90's.

Reborn
05-19-2011, 09:25 AM
Thanks Former1Dog. I do appreciate your story. It's certainly a great one. I understand the passion for basketball in the Native American community. I seem to have lived a large part of my life either on or near a reservation. I have shared this passion for the game with many, many Native American friends both on the courts, on the playgrounds and in homes watching games on TV. I also coached 3 years at Wapato High School which is on the Yakima's reservation.

I'd also love to hear from Bobzag, CDC and LIZF WHO are a few of my favorite bloggers here. Come on you guys. Your stories will only add to the unity being expressed in this thread. This thread just feels incomplete without your contributions to it. If one of you hurries you'll get the 100th post. And MAYBE if one of you post we can actually move this to a 5 star thread which it is.....

izzjess
05-24-2011, 08:37 PM
i just wanted to see this thread reach 100....and thank everybody who wrote in.....i thought this was one of the coolest threads ive read...and i thought it would make a lot of people mad but instead it made me respect all gu board members weather they played ball or not...thanks to everybody!!!:000tens:

snebzag
05-25-2011, 06:55 PM
Ok, 101 now.
Kind of like an auction.

Do I hear 102?

I also think it was one of the best read and contribution threads I have ever seen here.

GrizZAG
05-27-2011, 06:33 AM
Wow, just wow, what a great thread this is. Some of us only watch this blog during season and get excited. I read year long but post only during season normally. Glad I do for sure now.

This sort of "coming out" thread is awesome. I knew we had some experience out there from the great posts.
I am a Montana Griz and only played HS B-ball and not spectacularly. I did excel at another sport and was an intercollegiate champion in it, but not BB. I will say that those that have competed at high level in any sport have the understanding of what it takes to get there, but I also believe that elements of different sports require unique perspectives to understand each.
The team chemistry and mental dynamics can be perhaps seen better by the untrained technical eye I think at times. The 10,000 foot overview is good sometimes maybe. Different perception from eyes trained in different ways.

Like you, I love and admire the GU programs from having lived in Spokane for 20+ years and getting HOOKED! I now live in the town that produced Derek Ravio, Zach Gord, Dan Dickau and others proudly. There are a LOT of Zag fans over here and proudly fly the colors for the program.
I read other blogs at other schools, but none are as together as this one.
I look forward to another exciting season...

LongIslandZagFan
05-27-2011, 08:16 AM
I moved around a ton when I was young, so that put me behind the 8 ball when it came to organized sports. I played 3 years of varsity tennis in HS. In terms of hoops... Hmmmm... Let me put it this way... I had a PG body but a PF game. I can play the boards very well... But that's hard to do when you are 8-10 inches shorter than the guys you'd be up against... So no hoops in HS for me.

I did play a ton of pick-up games growing up and intramurals in college and play in an over 30 league at my church. For that league I get to play my PF game... Often the enforcer in the paint. I have coached youth soccer at a travel level for both my kids.

While I think it does take more than just watching the game to understand it completely, there are many examples of guys who know the game without playing it. Jeff and Stan Van Gundy being great examples. Perspective is great but I don't think it necessarily makes you any more knowledgable than the next guy. Trust me there have been kids I have coached in soccer that have tons of ability... But don't truly get the game and will live off the inherent talent and not play the game right... Likely all the way through HS and possibly into college.