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View Full Version : I hope Kelly has been watching Dirk N.



HillBillyZag
05-07-2011, 09:43 PM
for it appears that they have much in common and I believe that down the road with a a lot of hard work , K.O could someday become a similar weapon.

Malastein
05-07-2011, 10:43 PM
He's much closer to Nicolas Tskitishvili right now though, especially in terms of potential. Would be awesome if he stepped his game up to become the stud so many have been hoping he'd become.

NewLookZag
05-07-2011, 11:33 PM
I'm sorry hillbillyzag, but there is absolutely no similarities between Kelly and Dirk. Yeah, Kelly can shoot outside, he's tall, and he's white, but that's about it.

MDABE80
05-08-2011, 12:31 AM
Oh geeeeeeeeez......you strike again New:(

zagfan08
05-08-2011, 12:44 AM
It's too bad Meech didn't watch more Chris Paul.

K.O. has no chance of ever being a similar weapon to Dirk. Next ridiculous comparison?

HillBillyZag
05-08-2011, 06:44 AM
Look, whatever any of us older fans have to say , there is immediately some smart assed comment from some of our younger generation posters . And in a few cases thre are always some racial overtones within it ? I get the feeling some of you feel that a kids color/culture has a lot to do with how well you can play or how much you can love this game. Zag fans respect and root for EVERY kid that wears a Gonzaga uni on the field or on the court . There have been way too many instances lately of a critique of a players skills by a few going way beyond pointing out the necessary .

BJZags
05-08-2011, 08:16 AM
I'd say K.O. hasn't play enough minutes for anybody to know who he resembles.

Pleasant Peninsula
05-08-2011, 10:30 AM
Zag fans respect and root for EVERY kid that wears a Gonzaga uni on the field or on the court . There have been way too many instances lately of a critique of a players skills by a few going way beyond pointing out the necessary .

HillBilly,

You are taking a kid that, while a promising WCC player, has yet to make a significant impact on a fringe top 25 NCAA team, and comparing him to one of the 20 best basketball players of all time. And then when it is pointed out how ludicrous it is, you get all butthurt and lash out, even throwing in the race card for good measure.

Weak.

FuManShoes
05-08-2011, 10:39 AM
I'm sorry hillbillyzag, but there is absolutely no similarities between Kelly and Dirk. Yeah, Kelly can shoot outside, he's tall, and he's white, but that's about it.

Funny you say there "is absolutely no similarities" (sic) between the two, then list three, two of which, when it comes to playing, are pretty important. I'll let you decide which ones. Now, do I believe Kelly is the second coming of Dirk? Not really. Dirk is a world-class shooter. Can Kelly be something like Lamar Odom - a role guy who has all around game but prefers to play on the perimeter, board and pass - maybe, but it's going to a take a lot of work.

Ezag
05-08-2011, 10:52 AM
Can Kelly be something like Lamar Odom - a role guy who has all around game but prefers to play on the perimeter, board and pass - maybe, but it's going to a take a lot of work.

KO needs to marry a kardashian and he will be set!

23dpg
05-08-2011, 10:53 AM
First off, let me express the hope that I am dead wrong.

That being said, I think that sometimes we look at the positive attributes of players and then give them basketball ceilings that are just way too high. This is my view of KO.

I do know that he is almost 7', played PG in HS and had incredible stats. But I also see a guy that does not have elite Bball coordination. When Dirk was a teenager, he was tall and very coordinated. He dominated the Nike World game and was a lottery pick in the NBA. Kelly maybe grew too tall too quickly. Maybe he just doesn't have the skill set to be an elite player.

I want to make it clear that I am in no way ripping on KO (or HBZ). I would like to see him make all WCC by the time he is a senior. That would be a huge accomplishment. I just don't see him as a player that will be good enough to be compared to Dirk, or Lamar, or Budinger.

But again, refer to my first line.

NewLookZag
05-08-2011, 11:01 AM
Funny you say there "is absolutely no similarities" (sic) between the two, then list three, two of which, when it comes to playing, are pretty important. I'll let you decide which ones. Now, do I believe Kelly is the second coming of Dirk? Not really. Dirk is a world-class shooter. Can Kelly be something like Lamar Odom - a role guy who has all around game but prefers to play on the perimeter, board and pass - maybe, but it's going to a take a lot of work.

Jeez!! I wonder if any of you have ever watched a basketball game other than a GU game!

If you think that those 3 similarities translate into Kelly Olynyk having a snow balls chance in hell in being Dirk like, you are extremely ignorant. Forgive me for being honest, but the "older generation" around here is pretty clueless.

And STFU about "racial undertones", Hillbilly Are you kidding me? I was simply proving a point as to why YOU would compare Kelly an Dirk. I am pretty much 100% certain you've watched less than 3 minutes of Dirk play. Dirk is one of the most unique, crafty, special players to ever play in the NBA. Kelly Olynyk has a decent jump shot.... What next? Robert Sacre and Shaq?

BTW, Dirk being a "world class shooter" is about the last thing that makes him so special. There are "world class shooters" on every NBA roster. Watch a game sometime.

23dpg
05-08-2011, 11:14 AM
Hey NLZ.

You're viewpoints would be accepted and agreed with much more often if you just decreased the personal insults.

No reason for them really.

MDABE80
05-08-2011, 11:21 AM
Hillbilly's first post was the he hoped KO was watching Dirk......that's about it. Then then following posts go at KO like crazy even though the Hill post was simple and benign.
You guys need to relax . No need for incessant criticism of our own kids who are not world class. They are just kids trying to play well, learn a craft, graduate and move on in life.

Just because Hill says that he hopes KO is watching Dirk, the following is just out of place. NewLook if you're going to go at our kids on every comment or even the tangential comments, you'll be unhappy here.

Offseason can get pretty "loose" in termsof focus. Let's quit pciking on our kids as the season is over and has been over for a full month. All of our boy are in development. Let's be happy with that AND let's be happy with what we've got right now. The youngsters obviously are spoiled by our success and have no sense of history of the program......Big Sky days anyone? Pre D1 days anyone? FYI Kelly improved tremendously last year. I'm anticipating his improvement will continue. He's far from a bust. He's integral to our success in the upcoming 2 years.

NewLookZag
05-08-2011, 11:36 AM
I'm sorry hillbillyzag, but there is absolutely no similarities between Kelly and Dirk. Yeah, Kelly can shoot outside, he's tall, and he's white, but that's about it.

Is this really a terrible comment...?

Hillbilly said he thinks KO can be a similar weapon to Dirk.... That's a little more than "I hope KO is watching Dirk."

Still, I'm confused as to wear my comment deserved a response where I was called a smart ass, and all the noise... But of course,I get the profile warning. lol. priceless....

This board reminds me of MTVs real world/road rules challenges. You have the veterans with an alliance, and the egos, and then all the new guys with opinions are completely shut down because they disagree with the veterans.

ZagNative
05-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Hillbilly's first post was the he hoped KO was watching Dirk......that's about it. Then then following posts go at KO like crazy even though the Hill post was simple and benign.
You guys need to relax . No need for incessant criticism of our own kids who are not world class. They are just kids trying to play well, learn a craft, graduate and move on in life.

Just because Hill says that he hopes KO is watching Dirk, the following is just out of place. NewLook if you're going to go at our kids on every comment or even the tangential comments, you'll be unhappy here.

Offseason can get pretty "loose" in termsof focus. Let's quit pciking on our kids as the season is over and has been over for a full month. All of our boy are in development. Let's be happy with that AND let's be happy with what we've got right now. The youngsters obviously are spoiled by our success and have no sense of history of the program......Big Sky days anyone? Pre D1 days anyone? FYI Kelly improved tremendously last year. I'm anticipating his improvement will continue. He's far from a bust. He's integral to our success in the upcoming 2 years.Great post, Abe! I agree with every word.

ronh_pm
05-08-2011, 11:44 AM
One of my first posts on this board was spent likening K.O. to Dirk...except I thought Kelly had a chance to be a better passer. :)

In the FWIW dept. when you recieve PMs that say

"Great post, JACKASS. Way to make up data that isn't even true! Eat it."

to me, adding the poster to your ignore list is pretty much the best solution as it does no harm or grievence to the poster yet spares you the headache and the time of reading nonsense.

greenlakesteve
05-08-2011, 12:14 PM
shouldn't every player on the team watch the best players in the world and try and mimic them?

HillBillyZag
05-08-2011, 12:21 PM
I've watched all the Mavs-Lakers games , enjoying Dirk N. scoring almost at will against nearly every defender L.A. put on him . I hope to see the Mav's put an end to the Laker dynasty in game four. I like Dallas over L.A. , but if you want to talk about the best TEAM's in the NBA , discounting Orlando and its three superstars?, I'd have to say I like the Bulls , and coming from a Cav's fan , that's saying a lot . Those young guys in Chicago play together and they lay down the "D". Rose will be a superstar , but he plays within the gameplan too.

FuManShoes
05-08-2011, 12:46 PM
BTW, Dirk being a "world class shooter" is about the last thing that makes him so special. There are "world class shooters" on every NBA roster. Watch a game sometime.

You're right, it's Dirk's toughness, athleticism and defense that have gotten him this far, not his near 40% shooting from three and 90% from the line as a 7-footer.

Zerogame
05-08-2011, 01:25 PM
A month ago or so Dirk was being interviewed and was asked how it is that a 7ft kid didnít play the post position. His answer was that his early coaches didnít force him to play inside. He felt that had he come to the U.S. the coaching would be different, and they would have made him into a post player. They allowed him to play to his strength, which is shooting, which he is pretty good at.
I have to wonder, would Josh H. have had more success on the outside?

bulldoginpdx
05-08-2011, 01:33 PM
I thought the mere idea of a "one of a kind" athlete or "superstar" growing up in front of your eyes transforming your little mind into what a truly great perimeter big man is would be enough for most bball fans.

I'm not going to try to put up GU's players on that high of a pedestal because im a competitor...even with just being a spectator of the games.

If I expect or even hope that the kids will be the next superstar of the nba, or be a model of such player I will have a very hard "real" season.

Now in the offseason the only reason I try to have a hard stance on people's views and ideas on this board, is that it can create the things I hate so much. That being unrealistic or just plain silly expectations of our team and players. If we have another "Kong episode" as good as it is for the popularity of the board it creates a lot of disconnect and needless drama that plays out on this board in the "real" season.

I'm a die hard fan of GU and have been for awhile. I watch every game hence by my tag (really like 24). I read this board like a crack fiend after a game. I can not get myself to read it after a loss because I'm to disappointed and go through the 5 stages of death. I think after a day or 2 I can let go enough of my anger for the loss. I come back to the board after working out the loss in my head and I soak up everything that is said and have the luxury to avoid the silly posts at least in my mind.I know social dynamics enough to know I would ruffle some feathers on this board.

I'm also a die hard sports fan in general a lover of the athletics so too speak. I don't think its fair to ask people to "dumb down" their posts in response to a idea expressed by somebody. Most of us are adults and should have some idea of "character". I know that if I disagree with a idea like dirk vs ko which I do I want to be able to defend it. I don't think its right to expect people to treat everyone with kid gloves. So what if someone points out to me my idea or comparison was silly as long as they do it with "facts" even if it makes me look a little silly I personally don't care. I do care when this board wants everyone to be hypersensitive to avoid conflicts. I believe any debate should be had as long as people can have it in a respectful adult manner.

To the mods the point I'm trying to make is for the posters on the board who are "purists" shouldn't have to feel like we have to treat the more casual fans with kid gloves. Last I remembered we are all adults and most capable or at least I pray atleast that someone in a "sense" laughing at their idea would not be a big deal for them. As long as is done without just pointing a internet finger at them with a HUGE laughing emoticon and saying "hahaha so stupid of you!!!!!!" their should be no issue.

If we have people on this board that are so sensitive the mere suggestion someone using indisputable facts to point out that their idea is just plain silly then maybe we should have a age verification and a disclaimer saying

"Hello new GU board member welcome! Be very aware you might read things you don't agree with if that mere idea makes you think your about to spontaneously cum bust then this place may not be a good place for you. May I suggest a nice spa in your area.

MDABE80
05-08-2011, 02:22 PM
A month ago or so Dirk was being interviewed and was asked how it is that a 7ft kid didnít play the post position. His answer was that his early coaches didnít force him to play inside. He felt that had he come to the U.S. the coaching would be different, and they would have made him into a post player. They allowed him to play to his strength, which is shooting, which he is pretty good at.
I have to wonder, would Josh H. have had more success on the outside?

Josh wouldn't play inside. He thought he was best outside and mostly....that's what he did. I loved Josh but he could have contributed sooooo much more inside.

Hoopaholic
05-08-2011, 02:36 PM
sweet day....i got called ignorant and clueless in the same posting simply because I am "old generation"........I just smile because I KNOW I have been around the block a time or two, not simply WISHING or trying to impress someone to think that I have been around the block or two......

I will slinker back into my "clueless" box and keep reading the enlightened, all knowing posts so I can one day become "all knowing".

ZagNative
05-08-2011, 03:21 PM
We need to class up our insults on this board. Maybe some Yiddish?

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_UkLNCxT74w4/TcclB99VV6I/AAAAAAABRT8/fBMsvKHmV3Q/Yiddish%20insults.jpg

MDABE80
05-08-2011, 04:03 PM
No..the point is that HIll posted a simple concept and wish. Nothing negative at all. SOme though......I don't know the reasons...took his post and made a big negative deal toward not only Hill...but Kelley.
That's just inappropriate. WHy go after the poster and the player when the simple first post was harmless? SO here we are 26 posts into a thread that began an an innocent wish that Kelly should watch Dirk? Doesn't make sense. The post blew up into something that didn't have much to d with the post beginning the thread. Go review the first post and the 3 after...you'll soon see that HIlls post was twisted into something never intended....so let's be more thoughtful and positive.

Besides, I hate being critical of our kids when they do nothing....and nothing is what this post is about: Nothing..ala Seinfeld.

zagfan08
05-08-2011, 04:13 PM
Okay this is ridiculous.. Saying K.O. should watch Dirk is fine. I should watch Dirk too, he's one of the best in the league and, at times, unstoppable. But by saying Olynyk could someday become a similar weapon to Dirk, the original post compared K.O. to Dirk. That statement just puts unreasonable expectations on Kelly. Sorry to those drinking the cool-aid, but he was a bench player on our worst team of the decade. Don't give him unrealistic expectations that are impossible to live up to.

Johnnygu
05-08-2011, 05:40 PM
It's a nice goal for Kelly to shoot for, but you cant be angry if somebody thought it was a bit humorous that you just compared an amateur to a future NBA Hall of famer. There is a bit of a mountain to climb there.

HillBillyZag
05-08-2011, 06:15 PM
Sorry Abe, you seem to be one of the few that realized thast I was NOT comparing Kelly to Dirk . I was merely trying to say that I wished that Kelly would have watched Dirk play thru this L.A. series to show him how the position should be played . How far his talents will take him is up to him ?, he can already shoot , if he works hard on his boarding and defense, he might surprise a lot of folks by how well he can play . I feel he will play well enough to help G.U., at the very least .

Johnnygu
05-08-2011, 08:10 PM
Your first post was not clear and was up for interpretation. So you had responses that reflected that....yeah that pretty much what this whole thread was about lol...I miss hoops season

RockandRollJames
05-08-2011, 08:13 PM
I hope you all have been watching Dirk Nowitzki.

Coach Crazy
05-08-2011, 08:17 PM
He can shoot relative to what, though? 44% from 3 and 57% from the floor overall is fantastic...but then you see that he only attempted 27 shots from beyond the arc the whole season. Not to mention the fact that he averaged only 3.68 shots per game.

With 1.2 TO's, .7 apg, a .62 A/T, little defense and 1.6 fouls in 13.8 mpg, before his shooting can even become more a factor (and there is no guarantee that when he ups the attempts he maintains the efficiency), he has to learn the other things that go along with working within the system.

zag944
05-08-2011, 08:35 PM
Frankly I dont think Kelly would be on the floor very long if he was attempting shots with the degree of difficulty Dirk was. While Dirk is quite competent across the board at the NBA level, he is a future hall of famer because he happens to be one of the 5 or so best in game shooters in the world.

bulldoginpdx
05-08-2011, 10:59 PM
KO has the "skill set" to have the potential to be a player like dirk. Will he imho no. Coach few in his style only lets a player play out of the system if that player is a "ammo" type. KO if he was further along in his development or maybe, also, or more importantly his drive, I could maybe hope few would treat him like a "ammo" type player. He is not their and might not get there in his time at GU. The bigger point, I think trying to be said is we want KO to...WANT to be the next dirk. If his dream is to make a career out of playing hoops watch dirk and get in the parking lot and BE him. Coach will use his skill set for the better of the team based off execution and matchups.

Martin Centre Mad Man
05-09-2011, 04:36 AM
I've always believed that K.O.'s potential was to become the WCC's version of Dirk - a seven footer with fluid passing and ball-handling, great court-vision and the ability to create shots from different spaces on the floor. I don't think he'll be an NBA hall-of-famer, but he might play and contribute at that level.

K.O. is a rare player who still seems at least a couple of years away from reaching his peak physical potential. I fear that he may not reach his peak physical potential until it is too late for G.U. to really capitalize on it. At this point, we really don't know how fast, strong, or agile he will be before he leaves Spokane or how athletic he will be by the time he reaches his mid-20s. Most players are closer to their physical development "ceiling" by his age, but he grew so much in his late teens, that there is still potential for substantial improvement over the next few years. I think that this kid still has the potential to be a very special player by the time he leaves Gonzaga. If he becomes the "Dirk of the WCC," I'll be thrilled.

Zagcity
05-09-2011, 06:53 AM
KO "the kid" will shine you wait and see. My hope is sooner vs the later, but he will shine Dirkeresk or not!

Once and Future Zag
05-09-2011, 07:39 AM
I have to wonder, would Josh H. have had more success on the outside?

Absolutely he was a better PF-type, rather than a post player. His mobility was his greatest asset, in my opinion - and when he bulked up that reduced his effectiveness.

Compare the two Heytvelt vs Hansbrough games.

The problem is that we didn't really have a great true Center (Mallon and Kuso) when JH was here, so he got shoehorned into a position that didn't fit his body type or skillset. Had Sacre not broken his foot (JH's senior year), that could have been Josh's first season with a big, albeit inexperienced, true post player behind him.

cjm720
05-09-2011, 07:58 AM
This post would make sense if it was 2008, not so much now.

Houston Zag
05-09-2011, 09:39 AM
I hope K.O. doesn't become anything like Dirk. I would prefer the Zags perform at a high level in post season play early and often. Something Dirk and co. have struggled with their entire careers. Additionally, Gonzaga can't wait for the other teams in college basketball to get old and have disinterested coaches leading a pack of reality tv stars. College has the one and done rule, so this seems unlikely.

To clarify this is all said tongue in cheek...I don't need people to comment on how good Dirk is or why I wouldn't want K.O. to be more like him. It is called a joke.

Dirk is a great player, but I hate the Mavericks along with most things "Dallas." IE. Big hair, Cowboys(of the football team), Internet Millionares who own NBA teams, and Texas Rangers(not of the Walker type though).

Overall...People on this board need to chill with the personal comments to each other. Lets live in peace and talk about basketball instead of race and what era of America you were born. If you want to talk about people go to the E! website, I'm sure Lamar and Kloe or the Real Housewives of Spokane have a blog you can comment on.

bulldoginpdx
05-09-2011, 11:52 AM
This is the only message board I bother posting on because I have a unhealthy obsession with GU basketball. If I choose to fall on the deep end in my posts that is only because GU basketball is one of the rare (entertainment) pleasures I bother wasting my time online talking about.

I could care less about their personal lives or there personality's unless it translates to the better of the team or the development as a player.

You'll have to forgive me for my broad strokes that I put in my posts. If you find it annoying or not fitting of what you like, feel free to ignore my posts.

I'm a very interesting character too say the least and I won't bother trying to fit into the vibe this board has If I bother posting in it.

I would never waste my time insulting anyone personally over the internet about anything its just pointless and childish. I can come across as very opinionated that's just my nature so If anyone ever reads a post and feels I was personally attacking them don't. Trust me you will know if I ever go there and I highly doubt it will ever happen.

Don't worry the closer we get to the season the more likely I will just bask in the glory of most members posts with their well thought out positions and arguments.

I will try from now on to keep things on topic as much as possible. This was just a way to let you all know how to to take my personality. Sure I would of loved to do a woohoo post for myself but I would have to dedicate a hour to making it epic. This was just easier so now If I wander off to lalala land in my posts feel free to nudge me in the right direction. I take nothing and I mean nothing personal online.

ZagLawGrad
05-09-2011, 05:15 PM
Jeez!! I wonder if any of you have ever watched a basketball game other than a GU game! ...

No, I've never in my 52 years watched any basketball game other than a GU game....Glad I'm out of the closet on that one. :confused:

skan72
05-09-2011, 11:07 PM
I've watched a bunch of tape on Dirk as a high school aged player in Germany, and to best honest, besides the World Hoop Festival, obviously, he wasn't an absolutely eye-opening prospect. He was great, definitely, but not someone who you were like, wow this guy will develop into a top NBA player.

As well, I know a man who played a lot of ball in Europe (and saw Dirk play as a high school aged player in Europe), and is now a coach and has a pretty good eye for the game. He thought Kelly, in high school, was better than Dirk Nowitzki. Sure, he doesn't show as much of his game at the DI level, but I would not throw the comparison of KO and Dirk out the window, I think it is legitimate.

MDABE80
05-09-2011, 11:56 PM
It doesn't matter if he grows into a Dirk or not. What matters is that Kelly is a Zag and is still growing into his body. He tries hard and works harder. All these 43 posts won't change much.

He'll be with us for another 2 years. He'll keep trying and achieving. Somebody will keep complaining about something or other. For me, I like celebrating the kids as they grow up and hopefully grow as competitors in basketball at our dear old school.

Years ago, we used to revel and comment on the journey..not the big time results. I think we should reutrn to that mindset. It's a lot more rewarding than being critical of each other and the kids. You'll smile more and laugh more. It's much more pleasant than the nitpick. Celebrate the kids. I'm still sad with loss of Meech as the great and warm kid he is. That much I'll remember and miss...much more than the criticisms.

Zag79
05-10-2011, 12:35 AM
i find it odd people complain that much about a guy who IS our best rebounder already, and shoots the highest % from the field. hes almost a double double machine with the right PT, whats the problem? he will get faster and stronger as he grows into his body, and i cant wait to see the finished product.

ZagsGoZags
05-10-2011, 12:46 AM
I agree. PT will accelerate his development more than EH or even Sacre. Probably about the same as Sam. KO will end up playing at a very high level, and I stick my neck out and say again he will finally be in the NBA, though it may take many more years. I think he will get quicker. He gets fewer rebounds stripped from him than Sacre and EH do.

A to Zags
05-10-2011, 05:25 AM
I am a huge KO fan and love watching Dirk play. I can see the basis of this thread but I have always thought KO has the body type to be more of a Kevin McHale type player or a morph of Dirk and McHale. My wish is that he watch some old NBA film on KM. Whatever he continues to develop into it will be the best he can be. I am completely happy he is a Zag and represents everything I like about Gonzaga. The reins that Coach Few puts on the players in the name of team play is exasperating to fans and players at time but it is why we have a great record, a great coach and not just an enjoyable AAU team to watch.

Birddog
05-10-2011, 06:13 AM
still growing into his body
I keep seeing this and similar statements re Kelly. While I get the gist of this, it isn't the real problem IMO. If you listen to the talking heads much, Barkley for example, Kelly is just another "big" who doesn't have many "big" skills because he grew up as a guard. It is getting more and more common to see the these big kids with guard skills because as they develop as youngsters they are quite often among the best players so they just migrate to the guard position. Barkley and others bemoan the fact that not near enough kids grow up playing as the "big" and developing some "big man" skills i.e. back to the basket type moves and better blocking out and rebounding skills. I think Kelly fits right into this mold. If he RSs for a year, it will give him some time to become more of a true "big man" and shed some of his guard tendencies. I don't ever foresee him as a 5, but he can use the time to develop some more moves and be a solid 4. If he also develops a deadeye for more outside shots, then so much the better. I think he could be a force paired with Dower for two years.