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EuroZag2010
02-27-2011, 01:20 AM
Just for fun-

I remember at the USF Craig & Heister asked how many jerseys have been retired well of course 2. My question is who's jersey would you like to see in the rafters ?

Also I was wondering is there a specific reason why we don't do the names on jerseys ?

jim77
02-27-2011, 02:33 AM
#3 Adam Morrison.

Why? POY for college basketball....spokesman for Diabetes....success against incredible odds.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-27-2011, 04:01 AM
To this day, I am amazed that Jeff Brown's number has not been retired.

He was the conference player of the year and won the award as the top overall player/student in the country.

SunDevilGolfZag
02-27-2011, 05:48 AM
To this day, I am amazed that Jeff Brown's number has not been retired.

He was the conference player of the year and won the award as the top overall player/student in the country.




He was also on the PlayBoy Magazine All American Team -- the only issue of the magazine my wife has ever let me buy! ;)

gu03alum
02-27-2011, 05:59 AM
#3 Adam Morrison.

Why? POY for college basketball....spokesman for Diabetes....success against incredible odds.

A big plus 1. Morrison was the best player in college basketball the year he left.

Thomas_Sutpen
02-27-2011, 06:10 AM
#3 Adam Morrison.

Why? POY for college basketball....spokesman for Diabetes....success against incredible odds.

Respectfully disagree. The honor of a retired jersey should be reserved for those who hold degrees from GU.

Now if he comes back and finishes, like Turiaf, then he can be in the conversation.

gu03alum
02-27-2011, 06:13 AM
Respectfully disagree. The honor of a retired jersey should be reserved for those who hold degrees from GU.

Now if he comes back and finishes, like Turiaf, then he can be in the conversation.

Should we get rid of the Bing Crosby Museum then?

Hoopaholic
02-27-2011, 06:37 AM
1. how well the person played while in college
2. what the player contributed to the college atmosphere while on campus
3. how the player represented GU while attending
4. what the player contributed to society after leaving GU
5. how the player represented GU after leaving the college scene


Both Burgess and Stockton clearly have set themselves apart both as players and individuals in the game of basketball as well as LIFE and their contribution to society.

To me that is the framework for having your uniform hanging from the walls of GU

Thomas_Sutpen
02-27-2011, 06:48 AM
Should we get rid of the Bing Crosby Museum then?

Yes. His statue should be toppled and broken into little pieces, which should be buried throughout Spokane. All references to him should be excised from school records. All monies collected from him directly or from anyone who has ever seen his statue or museum should be returned. The Crosby Student Center should be burned to the ground; this should take place at night so that we can dance around the flames while screaming "Bing who?"

Zagsker
02-27-2011, 07:22 AM
#3 Adam Morrison.

Why? POY for college basketball....spokesman for Diabetes....success against incredible odds.

like another poster said, he doesn't even have his degree from GU.......and is his success in basketball really considered "success against incredible odds" because of his diabetes? I don't know a whole lot about diabetes but I know people who have it and it appears that if you are on top of things it is very managable.

mgadfly
02-27-2011, 08:04 AM
Morrison left early, or I think he'd be a no-brainer. He could have been our first two time All-American, would have easily had the all-time scoring record, and the teams he was on won a ton of games. But he left early, so ...

Dickau came late, starting his career at the UW. He was awesome while he was here, but I think retired jersey status should be reserved for 4 (or 5) year guys that have a major impact on an individual season and works their way up our career leader boards. That leaves the most likely candidates as:

1. Blake Stepp, career: top 10 scoring, top 5 steals, and #2 in assists. His junior season was one of the most dominating all-around performances by a GU player ever (we sometimes remember him for his senior season, which was very good, but it was his junior year that he was special).
1,670 career points, 501 rebounds, 640 assists, 152 steals

2. Matt Bouldin, career: top 10 scoring, top 2 steals, and top 5 assists. His junior season was incredibly efficient on both the offensive an defensive ends. His junior statistics are not eye-popping, 13.8 points, 3.4 assists, 4.1 rebounds, 1.5 steals, but his tempo-neutral offensive rating was 119.9 (Adam Morrison, Dan Dickau, J.P. Batista at their best type of number). Additionally, the 444 assists are remarkable considering he was never the primary guard at GU playing the #2 or #3 beside Pargo and Raivio for most of his time.
1683 career points, 534 rebounds, 444 assists, 170 steals

3. Ronny Turiaf, career: top 5 scoring, top 5 rebounds, #2 in blocks. Turiaf had three seasons where he averaged better than 15 points per game. Besides bringing energy to the court, he brought personality and an aggressive attacking style near the hoop. He was also an elite defender that blocked shots as well as anyone not named Daye or Calvary.
1723 career points, 859 rebounds, 179 blocks.

4. Casey Calvary, career: #1 shot blocker, top 10 rebounder. Calvary may get bonus points from me because he was part of the Elite 8 run and gave us the interior athleticism to match up with major conference teams. And this was at a time when no one thought we had the talent or players to do it (I think sometimes we forget how shocking/and fun our Cinderella season was on the basketball world). However, he did put together solid career numbers and at least one great statistical season.
1512 career points, 757 rebounds, 207 blocks.

mgadfly
02-27-2011, 08:10 AM
like another poster said, he doesn't even have his degree from GU.......and is his success in basketball really considered "success against incredible odds" because of his diabetes? I don't know a whole lot about diabetes but I know people who have it and it appears that if you are on top of things it is very managable.

You don't know anyone who isn't on top of their type-1 diabetes because if they aren't, they are dead.

I don't know if "incredible" is the right word, but it is at least "remarkable" to someone that has represented many diabetics seeking work place accommodations. In sports, the opposition doesn't accommodate you and the stats keepers don't discount a poor performance because you were having problems with your medications/treatment.

gu03alum
02-27-2011, 08:48 AM
I'm still not sure why graduating from Gonzaga is so important for getting a number retired. The cream of the crop, best ever to play at GU are going to have opportunities to move on to the next level before their senior year. I have no problem with them doing that. As I stated above, he was the BEST player in college basketball. I don't think that anyone who played at Gonzaga has ever done that before (maybe Burgess but I don't know a whole lot about his career). He was to college basketball what Jimmer is this year.

Diabetes are very difficult to control depending on the person. I have a nephew who has to take shots and track his blood sugar constantly. It has definitely affected his ability to compete in high school basketball. I have a friend with diabetes who has been unable to control his disease and is currently receiving Kidney Dialysis. He has had close calls where the doctor wanted to amputate limbs. I think trivialization of diabetes is not fair to the many people who suffer from this disease.

adoptedzag
02-27-2011, 09:42 AM
He was to college basketball what Jimmer is this year.

No, he wasn't. He was to College Basketball what JJ Reddick was the same year.

I love Mo, I think he represents spokane well. The good, the bad and the ugly. That being said, you have to be better than that as a person for me to support retiring your number. By retiring a number, you're saying "There will never be another like you" but if you look at college basketball, there's always another Jimmer, JJ Reddick, Adam Morrison, Nolan Smith, etc. What you do to represent yourself after you leave GU both professionally and personally to cement your legacy is the important part and what sets you apart from "Just another "best" college basketball player in X year.

Just A Zag
02-27-2011, 09:45 AM
Respectfully disagree. The honor of a retired jersey should be reserved for those who hold degrees from GU.

Now if he comes back and finishes, like Turiaf, then he can be in the conversation.

Turiaf did come back and finish...

Zagsker
02-27-2011, 09:47 AM
You don't know anyone who isn't on top of their type-1 diabetes because if they aren't, they are dead.

I don't know if "incredible" is the right word, but it is at least "remarkable" to someone that has represented many diabetics seeking work place accommodations. In sports, the opposition doesn't accommodate you and the stats keepers don't discount a poor performance because you were having problems with your medications/treatment.

I ask because I do not know...what work place accommodations does a Type 1 diabetic need?

Zagsker
02-27-2011, 09:48 AM
No, he wasn't. He was to College Basketball what JJ Reddick was the same year.

I love Mo, I think he represents spokane well. The good, the bad and the ugly. That being said, you have to be better than that as a person for me to support retiring your number. By retiring a number, you're saying "There will never be another like you" but if you look at college basketball, there's always another Jimmer, JJ Reddick, Adam Morrison, Nolan Smith, etc. What you do to represent yourself after you leave GU both professionally and personally to cement your legacy is the important part and what sets you apart from "Just another "best" college basketball player in X year.


very good points

Zagsker
02-27-2011, 09:55 AM
I'm still not sure why graduating from Gonzaga is so important for getting a number retired. The cream of the crop, best ever to play at GU are going to have opportunities to move on to the next level before their senior year. I have no problem with them doing that. As I stated above, he was the BEST player in college basketball. I don't think that anyone who played at Gonzaga has ever done that before (maybe Burgess but I don't know a whole lot about his career). He was to college basketball what Jimmer is this year.

Diabetes are very difficult to control depending on the person. I have a nephew who has to take shots and track his blood sugar constantly. It has definitely affected his ability to compete in high school basketball. I have a friend with diabetes who has been unable to control his disease and is currently receiving Kidney Dialysis. He has had close calls where the doctor wanted to amputate limbs. I think trivialization of diabetes is not fair to the many people who suffer from this disease.

Why has your friend been unable to control his disease? Medication not taking effect?

I am in no way trying to make diabetes seem pedestrian.....if it comes across that way I apologize.

Thomas_Sutpen
02-27-2011, 10:34 AM
Turiaf did come back and finish...

I meant "and finish like Turiaf did." Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-27-2011, 11:33 AM
1. how well the person played while in college
2. what the player contributed to the college atmosphere while on campus
3. how the player represented GU while attending
4. what the player contributed to society after leaving GU
5. how the player represented GU after leaving the college scene


Both Burgess and Stockton clearly have set themselves apart both as players and individuals in the game of basketball as well as LIFE and their contribution to society.

To me that is the framework for having your uniform hanging from the walls of GU

Jeff Brown meets all five criteria. He was the epitome of class on and off the court while at Gonzaga and has excelled in his professional life after school.

Retire his number.

jim77
02-27-2011, 12:28 PM
very good points

It takes time to cement that legacy....something diabetics don't always get much of.

I worked with a fella who was type 1 who was in his mid 30's...he use to check himself numerous times during the day. Despite that his blood would go low occasionally and you could tell cause he'd get confused and lrthargic. I'd slowly sit him down and hold his head up so he would not smack his head as sometimes he'd go into convulsions before the medics would arrive. It probably happened 8 or 10 times in a 2 year span....one night he didn't wake up.

I hope Adam NEVER has a problem but, with diabetes there are no guarantees. The fella has guts...give it to him while he's young so he can enjoy it. #3 is truly a special player and I can say we will NEVER see another like him. I also thing Jeff Brown and Ronny are worthy recipients.

gu03alum
02-27-2011, 03:03 PM
After rewatching the Decade of Excellence video I would like to add a few names to my list:

Matt Santangelo
Casey Calvary
Dan Dickau
Blake Stepp
Ronny Turiaf
Adam Morrison
JP Batista
Derek Raivio
Jeremy Pargo
Matt Bouldin

CB4
02-27-2011, 03:17 PM
Morrison without a doubt - he was player of the year, nuff said.

FieldHouseFishHouse
02-27-2011, 03:39 PM
Ronny Turiaf played for 4 years, was an outstanding player for 3 years, and a WCC POY. Talk to anyone who was on campus when Ronny was around, he was the pinnacle of what a celebrity college athlete should be. He represented the program better than anyone in my mind except for Pendo.
He also has had a great pro career at the highest level.
I think we should se his number retired around the time his NBA career ends.

The bar is set pretty high with Burgess and Stockton. It's hard to pick a third name to match that group. Ammo has the stats at the college level, but he is not really "legendary".

One name that really should hang in the rafters is a guy that doesn't wear a jersey.
Mark Few

jim77
02-27-2011, 05:09 PM
Ronny Turiaf played for 4 years, was an outstanding player for 3 years, and a WCC POY. Talk to anyone who was on campus when Ronny was around, he was the pinnacle of what a celebrity college athlete should be. He represented the program better than anyone in my mind except for Pendo.
He also has had a great pro career at the highest level.
I think we should se his number retired around the time his NBA career ends.

The bar is set pretty high with Burgess and Stockton. It's hard to pick a third name to match that group. Ammo has the stats at the college level, but he is not really "legendary".

One name that really should hang in the rafters is a guy that doesn't wear a jersey.
Mark Few

Nice post.

ID ZAGFAN
02-27-2011, 05:14 PM
Nice post.

To that list of Ronny's accomplishments, I would like to add his Heart to Heart Foundation

Learn more here:

http://www.ronnyturiaf21.org/

ZaGranny

Once and Future Zag
02-27-2011, 05:25 PM
I'll agree that Jeff Brown (#34) should be near the top of the "list".

I also think that Matt Santangelo (#13) and Casey Calvary (#31) should be pretty much the "rest" of that very short list of players. Maybe Ronny (#1) as well...

For "others" Fitz has to be at the top of that list, then Fr. Tony (though he has been memorialized), and then Mark Few.

I would also like #25 to be "unofficially retired" from active duty - while Pendo was never the best player on the floor I think he epitomizes what we think of as a "Zag" - a true student/athlete who played every possession like it was the end of the world, and made everyone around him better. If you were ever to say who the "definitive Zag" is... Pendo.

SunDevilGolfZag
02-27-2011, 06:11 PM
I'll agree that Jeff Brown (#34) should be near the top of the "list".

I also think that Matt Santangelo (#13) and Casey Calvary (#31) should be pretty much the "rest" of that very short list of players. Maybe Ronny (#1) as well...

For "others" Fitz has to be at the top of that list, then Fr. Tony (though he has been memorialized), and then Mark Few.

I would also like #25 to be "unofficially retired" from active duty - while Pendo was never the best player on the floor I think he epitomizes what we think of as a "Zag" - a true student/athlete who played every possession like it was the end of the world, and made everyone around him better. If you were ever to say who the "definitive Zag" is... Pendo.

Totally agree that Fitz should be at the top of the list -- really is a no-brainer. Will GU recognize his greatness and unending dedication to student athletes? (How about like when ASU ousted Frank Kush as football coach and later came to its senses and named the stadium after him -- point: some kind of recognition is pretty nice)

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-28-2011, 02:24 AM
I think we should se his number retired around the time his NBA career ends.


I like the idea of waiting a decade or more after a player finishes his college career before retiring his number. I think that the passage of time gives the university and fans a chance to gain perspective on the player's legacy during the GU years and after.

I don't like the idea of waiting 40+ years. I am glad Frank Burgess was still alive when his number was retired. If the university had waited another 3-4 years, he would not have seen it happen.

Once and Future Zag
02-28-2011, 06:20 AM
Totally agree that Fitz should be at the top of the list -- really is a no-brainer. Will GU recognize his greatness and unending dedication to student athletes? (How about like when ASU ousted Frank Kush as football coach and later came to its senses and named the stadium after him -- point: some kind of recognition is pretty nice)

The problem with Fitz is that her left under a ugly cloud - unreported monies (even if used for legit expenses) tend to stick out.

That being said, he's the central figure of the entire modern GU basketball story.

gu03alum
02-28-2011, 06:37 AM
Adam! Adam! Adam!

I think people don't realize how great he was and what he did for Gonzaga in terms of national attention. Why should his leaving after his junior year matter? Why should his post Gonzaga career matter especially when you consider his career was cut short Jeff Gillooly style by Luke Walton?

U Zig, I Zag
02-28-2011, 07:04 AM
I think Ronny meets the criteria, well liked, played well, part of a great set of teams, played professionally, is recognized nationally (worldwide, really) and continues to be a good public spokesman for GU.

all the others mentioned, including those from the DVD should get montages on banners in the Kennel where they have space, etc. Including the women.

CV should get a full floor to ceiling one like Stockton's that says something under it like, 'Badassery'. Though 'Rise Above' or something inspirational would probably should be used. We ever have a WNBA 'lottery' pick? CV will be one.

VinnyZag
02-28-2011, 07:09 AM
The black jerseys should be retired. All of them. Permanently. Maybe the red ones, too.

EuroZag2010
02-28-2011, 07:14 AM
Everytime they wear the black jerseys i get really nervous. ... those are cursed... IMO... they should be retired they should back the 03-07 Jerseys with the names on back

Houston Zag
02-28-2011, 07:16 AM
I know he doesn't have a jersey, but Coach Few should have his name somewhere in that Gym before it is over. I'm guessing it will be called The Kennel on Mark Few Court in the McCarthy Centre before it is all over. Sponsored by Del Taco of course...

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-28-2011, 07:54 AM
Adam! Adam! Adam!

I think people don't realize how great he was and what he did for Gonzaga in terms of national attention. Why should his leaving after his junior year matter? Why should his post Gonzaga career matter especially when you consider his career was cut short Jeff Gillooly style by Luke Walton?

We all realize how good Adam was and what he did for Gonzaga in terms of national attention. I believe that Adam's number will probably be retired at some date in the future.

However, I believe that the total picture of a person as a student, athlete, and ambassador of the university should be considered in the decision to retire or not retire a number. Frank Burgess and John Stockton were excellent students while they were at Gonzaga and among the greatest players ever to wear the Gonzaga uniform. Both of them excelled in their post Gonzaga careers in ways that Adam Morrison has yet to achieve. There were other players before Adam who were excellent players and excellent students who have maintained successful professional careers since graduation. Some of those professional careers have been in sports. Others have been in law, business, engineering, and education. I, for one, would like to see a few of those players honored before Morrison, because they are a better representatives of what matters to the university as an academic institution.

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-28-2011, 07:57 AM
Everytime they wear the black jerseys i get really nervous. ... those are cursed... IMO... they should be retired they should back the 03-07 Jerseys with the names on back

I think they should go back to the royal blue they were wearing during the Elite 8 run, but Nike makes those decisions, not me.

zagporvida
02-28-2011, 09:33 AM
I could see the reason for Jeff Brown since he did get inducted into the WCC hall of fame but according to some he wouldn't qualify since he was a transfer student from UW.

Beer_Engineer
02-28-2011, 10:54 AM
Respectfully disagree. The honor of a retired jersey should be reserved for those who hold degrees from GU.

Now if he comes back and finishes, like Turiaf, then he can be in the conversation.

Why?

Beer_Engineer
02-28-2011, 10:58 AM
...However, I believe that the total picture of a person as a student, athlete, and ambassador of the university should be considered in the decision to retire or not retire a number...

...There were other players before Adam who were excellent players and excellent students who have maintained successful professional careers since graduation....

NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR. That deserves a banner. Nothing more, nothing less needed. This is not a scholarship, nor career achievement award. What AMMO did that year will probably never be seen in a GU jersey again. To me, thats a jersey for everyone to see and remember what he was to this program for one great, amazing, sensational unbelievable year when you look to the rafters.

jim77
02-28-2011, 11:10 AM
NATIONAL PLAYER OF THE YEAR. That deserves a banner. Nothing more, nothing less needed. This is not a scholarship, nor career achievement award. What AMMO did that year will probably never be seen in a GU jersey again. To me, thats a jersey for everyone to see and remember what he was to this program for one great, amazing, sensational unbelievable year when you look to the rafters.

+1

UberZagFan
02-28-2011, 12:32 PM
Should we get rid of the Bing Crosby Museum then?

Pretty sure Bing had a degree from GU:

http://www.gonzaga.edu/Academics/Libraries/Foley-Library/Departments/Special-Collections/Collections/Bing-Crosby-Collection/CrosbyandGonzaga2.asp

:p


Uber likes a lot of what Hoopaholic puts out there for criteria. And it's reasons 4-5 on his list that Uber thinks that its a bit early to consider anyone after the elite eight run (which includes AMMO--but 10-15 years from now?). From Stocks through elite eight, Jeff Brown is the only one in the conversation. Aside from Brown, with the passage of time, Santangelo, Turiaf, Calvary, in that order.

Also, Uber doesn't think a players needs to play at GU for 4 years to be considered (if so, then Burgess would not qualify).

ZagFanInNC
02-28-2011, 12:43 PM
I think Stepp and Calvalry should get it any time now, Ronny and Ammo should wait a few more years, but they definitely deserves it.

To the people saying it is what you did after that counts I completely disagree. Ammo's junior year was just as important to Gonzaga Basketball as the Elite 8 team was. Everyone was following the JJ vs Adam saga night in and night out. I was in the Army at the time and I was so proud of what he and that team were achieving on a consistent basis (Probably the best GU team to ever step on the court). Just because his pro career didnt work out and some people think hes a jerk doesnt mean he doesnt deserve to have his jersey retired.