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ZagLawGrad
02-26-2011, 09:34 AM
That we have Coach Few and his staff. Ethcial with impeccable integrity.

Compare: Pearl at Tennessee and Calhoun at UConn, etc.

I tip my hat to Coach Few. Success in a sea of killer sharks.

McZag
02-26-2011, 09:50 AM
+1

Can't be emphasized enough.

adoptedzag
02-26-2011, 10:02 AM
Agreed with all of the above.

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 10:09 AM
it is not only Few. I know Few recruits first on character, then skill. IMO. this is why Few remained loyal to Meech during his huge soph slump. Meechs character. Not his numbers.

U Zig, I Zag
02-26-2011, 10:10 AM
Agreed. Every time I see some imbecile on ESPN getting busted for some idiotic thing or another I thank God that Few and Co (seemingly) have a higher moral standard and still find a way to win.

ZagLawGrad
02-26-2011, 10:28 AM
Mods----Please feel free to delete this thread. It seems to have moved off the basketball point I was trying to make. Thanks

DixieZag
02-26-2011, 10:29 AM
Don't forget to thank the student/athletes who by an overwhelming percentage have been exemplory - and so likeable that they became part of the Gonzaga national story.

Yeah, we have had some kids make some mistakes, the sheer volume of numbers dictate that. But on the whole the program has stood out for having great young people as players. We all know about the Turiafs, the Stepps etc. but just look at our one senior this year, Steven.

He acted, took a trip to Africa and oh yeah, started for a top team for three years. I would trust him to watch my daughter - - how many big time D-1 football and basketball players would you trust to drive your van?

This is a credit to Few also. He evaluates the entire person. His leadership emphasizes a "team veto" with recruits, how many other programs do the players even know the recruits? Few does it right on so many levels and because of that the program produces young men that do it right.

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 10:34 AM
I deleted my own comments. Sorry to bring up the Jesuits as a reason for our success. Maybe I am wrong.

scott257
02-26-2011, 10:37 AM
Mark Few's father is Presbyterian - not Baptist. Also, while I appreciate that the school has high ethical standards, Mark would have high ethical standards anywhere he might coach. It is part of who he is and how he was raised. While Gonzaga benefits from this, it was part of his DNA long before he started coaching at Gonzaga. I also believe there are other coaches out there with the same high standards and they coach at schools with no relationship to the Catholic Church.

scott257
02-26-2011, 10:41 AM
Oregonzagnut - I don't think you are totally wrong. I think that it speaks well of Gonzaga that they seek out coaches that have a strong ethical background and it is part of the total package that results in a successful program.

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 10:50 AM
Oregonzagnut - I don't think you are totally wrong. I think that it speaks well of Gonzaga that they seek out coaches that have a strong ethical background and it is part of the total package that results in a successful program.

Thanks! It was is just my opinion. I know what people mean by "Few & Co. I just wanted to give credit to all the other wallflowers who get overlooked as sidenotes or even ignored altogether. Fr. Tony Lehman was my friend and his presence on the bench meant way more than just being a token black coat and white collar for the show.

scott257
02-26-2011, 11:08 AM
Gonzaga is a class program. I didn't attend school there and really don't know Mark Few. But I know his mom and dad having attended church there. His Dad started preaching there the year I was born - a long time ago. Mark is younger than me and I remember him (and his brother and sisters) as I grew-up there. I would say his mom probably bleeds blue. I don't get home often enough to visit but here is something telling - Norm and Barbara (his parents) are really big fans of the team - but they are even more proud of the work that Mark and his wife do for Coaches for Cancer and how there is an expectation of the players to pay back to the community through programs like the Ronald McDonald's house.

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 11:37 AM
Bringing up the Society of Jesus is risky. If you mention the word Jesus, it leads to problems. This is a public board and it was my bad. But it is a disservice to Mark Few to demean his faith as simply believing in "some imaginary friend in the sky". I know religion is a heavy subject on any forum but it was my relevant opinion to ZagLawGrad's topic of Fews ethics and integrity.

A guy will get bashed for being Catholic at a Catholic University and then gets a thumbs down for defending why I think ethics are so strong at a Jesuit University. Seriously though, my bad for mentioning "Jesus" as some basis for Fews high ethical standards in a thread about us being "Lucky" that Few is so ethical. I apologize to anyone offended by religious topics and I know that religion and politics can ruin the family gathering.

scott257
02-26-2011, 11:49 AM
I don't think anyone should have to apologize for their opinion on an opinion board unless you have said something rude, obscene, or personally offensive. And giving credit to Mark Few's faith as a basis for his ethics is a fact. I don't think that means an atheist can't be ethical as well, it only provides a factual basis for his ethics.

Mantua
02-26-2011, 12:11 PM
I don't think anyone should have to apologize for their opinion on an opinion board unless you have said something rude, obscene, or personally offensive. And giving credit to Mark Few's faith as a basis for his ethics is a fact. I don't think that means an atheist can't be ethical as well, it only provides a factual basis for his ethics.

I agree that the strong ethical character of the Gonzaga program is something most of us immensely value. The most important reason to value these ethics is the effect they have in nurturing and protecting the young lives in the care of the university.

Unfortunately, in our times, the mention of religious faith can be misread to mean intolerance, self-righteousness, and exclusivity.

scott257
02-26-2011, 12:26 PM
and so next year we will see the Mormon - Jesuit clash. I will enjoy it as a religious experience as I thank God for basketball!

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 12:53 PM
Mods----Please feel free to delete this thread. It seems to have moved off the basketball point I was trying to make. Thanks

Your seemingly straightforward thread was a statement about how Mark Fews ethics and integrity compare to Pearl and Calhouns. And that we are lucky to have it. Zag basketball topic? yes. Totally and I agree but to the rue of several fans, I explained my reason why. 100% on topic IMO. However, I probably should have just said what you were looking for..... "+1" Agreed.

In all seriousness,


That we have Coach Few and his staff. Ethcial with impeccable integrity.

Compare: Pearl at Tennessee and Calhoun at UConn, etc.

I tip my hat to Coach Few. Success in a sea of killer sharks.

+1 Agreed 110%.

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 01:46 PM
The main reason I follow the Zags is because of the type of kids they recruit and high standards they have on and off the floor. This has nothing to do with religion .

That is only why YOU follow, not EVERYONE. YOUR reasons for being a fan have nothing to do with Gonzaga's success. Only why you like them. And the reason you like them is their ethics. And I am here to tell you that Mark Few himself and Gonzaga will tell you the Jesuits have lots to do with it. Don't project your personal beliefs onto Few or Gonzaga. That is just plain fallacy from logic 101. He will put you right in your place. I promise you that.

Its a no win. I'm done :boxing:

Its just my opinion and possibly, the opinion of millions of Catholics Christians and Jesuits around the world. And not just Spokane.

Do this, ask Mark Few how much God had a role in his life and the program. I dare you. He'd get a nice chuckle out of it. Then come back to me and tell me religion has nothing to do with Zag ethics.

UberZagFan
02-26-2011, 02:05 PM
Some times we get Foo threads in the MBB; other times we get OCC threads in the MBB. Oh well.

As for the OP, Uber agrees that GU is fortunate that its staff of a very high profile program has not had any major slip ups over the past decade. But lets not be too quick to condemn Calhoun or others in similar situations. Not all NCAA violations are the result of unethical acts by the coaching staff. In UConn's situation, the violation was based upon a former team manager giving something of value to a recruit--lodging, meals, etc. While the UConn staff certainly knew that the former manager qualified as person not allowed to give anything of value to a recruit, there is no evidence in anything Uber has seen that proves that Calhoun was aware that the recruit, Miles, was given anything of value by the team manager. What transpired in the UConn case, IUHO, could occur in any program in the nation no matter how ethical or rule abiding the staff may be. And Uber doesn't state this lightly as he would love a reason to rip on Calhoun (if you couldn't tell from Uber's avatar, he really doesn't like UConn).

With that said, Uber also agrees with Calhoun's statement and apology he issued yesterday essentially accepting the blame and indicating the buck stops with him. The ultimate responsibility lies with the head coach, not necessarily because he knew what was going on but that he should have known what was going on. Failing to meet this responsibility does not necessarily mean the person is without ethics or integrity. Simply put, Uber does not believe you can always equate NCAA violations with unethical behavior or lack of integrity--sometimes you can but not always.

Now Pearl is a different story. . .

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 02:21 PM
Religion has nothing to do with being ethical and moral.

You sound like that kid in school who thinks money grows on trees. He can't understand why everyone doesn't have Rolex's and BMW's. He has no idea what his parents or grandparents believed in and did in order to give him his safe and free luxuries.

Gonzaga University and Zag Basketball is a luxury that we are LUCKY to have. It is free to anyone who wants to join us and support and root for!! Its FREE!! But to be so ignorant about Gonzaga history, the commitment and the religious faith that created the high standards and ethics and WINNING you enjoy so much, is why I risk my credibility in even arguing with you.

Sorry everyone. I tend to defend my school when people attack the fundamental beliefs and foundation of which our program is built upon so it fits in easier with their own beliefs.

I need to "Never argue with # ###; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."

Rio Runner
02-26-2011, 02:31 PM
In 1982 Bruce Pearl graduated from Boston College University, a Jesuit institution. He also began his coaching career there as an assistant. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Pearl

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 03:06 PM
I'm with kingzag IDK about imaginary friends in the sky. I love basketball though, go zags!

I tend to agree with King too, for me. But the issue is why Mark Few and Gonzaga have such high ethics and standards. Not if I do, or you do, or kingzag does. We are the spectators who get to enjoy the fruits of all their faith, hard work and strict adherence to the Jesuit mission statement of GONZAGA. We differentiate our attraction to Gonzaga from other schools who have also had success with non religious affiliated systems. Gonzaga is not one of those. Gonzaga is a religious affiliated school and it has had a HUGE effect. To say it has not is silly and ignorant and sad. I am speaking only about why Gonzaga is where we are today. Not any other school. We are unique. Second only to UCLA in one particular area. Read up on John Woodens faith and how he integrated his beliefs into coaching to help produce what he did. Wooden success and his faith in God are inseparable. From his own mouth!!

My beliefs mean nothing. But Mark Fews, Jerry Krauses and all of Gonzagas past presidents and teachers mean a whole lot.

Just look at why Gonzaga is where it is NOW and you will see I am not debating the existence of God, I am debating that our University's history faith in God has played a role that understandably most people refuse to accept in their own lives. You don't have to. But don't make Gonzaga to appear to have had no belief in a greater good for the last 120 years.

I am shocked that I have to defend and argue the fact that religion has played the the biggest role in Gonzaga's University's existence. I'm flabbergasted. If that is a word.

MJ777
02-26-2011, 03:17 PM
Exactly right, anyone who says the matter of factly know either way is lying to themselves.

Also that's really bad logic as far as the "I say it exists so prove it's not there". When you say something is there, the burden of proof is on your to actually show that it is, not the other way around.. lol. There's a giant lawn gnome god in the sky but on a dimension we can't see, trust me he's there.. prove me wrong..:roll:

Okay, one more post. You must be right, everything that is came from nothing and life has no purpose other than to watch basketball and :cheers: :roll:

:horse:

"Son, in 35 years of religious study, I have only come up with two hard incontrovertible facts: there is a God, and I'm not Him. "
Father Cavanaugh from Rudy

Rio Runner
02-26-2011, 03:20 PM
But the issue is why Mark Few and Gonzaga have such high ethics and standards. Not if I do, or you do, or kingzag does. We are the spectators who get to enjoy the fruits of all their faith, hard work and strict adherence to the Jesuit mission statement of GONZAGA.

A number of factors shape a person's life: their parents, their friends, their education, their religion (if they choose to believe in one), their economic status, their health, their opportunities, etc. If Mark Few is a has high ethics, I tend to believe it is due to a lot more than just adhering to Gonzaga's mission.

By the way, John Wooden might have said that success and his faith in God were inseperable. But I think his success was more tied to Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton, Marques Johnson, and Walt Hazzard.

zag69
02-26-2011, 03:55 PM
Fellow Oregonian, I'm convinced that your point is that a belief in God, with consequent attitudes and behaviors, might have an effect on the selection of players and their success in a team sport. And I don't believe that you're saying that nonbelievers can't be as or more successful. And I hope you're not saying that all those who profess a belief in God have higher moral standards than nonprofessors (didn't the Oregon Province SJ declare bankruptcy two years ago because of claims from priestly rape and sodomy of children?)

Seems to me some people live good and honorable lives because of religion, some don't, some do without religion, and again, some don't. Religious belief, affiliation with a particular denomination or order, and superficial piety, is not a necessary and sufficient condition for moral behavior.

Go Zags!

vandalzag
02-26-2011, 03:58 PM
Does the your (insert name of higher power) want Stockton or Meech to start at PG? If so will the your "HP" exert any influence on coach Few and the rest of the staff to assure that his chosen player is the one that gets the most playing time?

MJ777
02-26-2011, 04:02 PM
Does the your (insert name of higher power) want Stockton or Meech to start at PG? If so will the your "HP" exert any influence on coach Few and the rest of the staff to assure that his chosen player is the one that gets the most playing time?

I'm sure Few prayed about it and got the right answer. ;)

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 04:10 PM
Some fans love Gonzaga hoops, like a young kid loves candy bars.

Ask him "How was that candy bar made? "

"It came from the store Dummy."

Why argue with the child?

Ask the majority of Gonzaga fans why we are so successful.

"We have a good coach and we get good athletes. Dummy"

Some will open a candy wrapper and not ever know or care what went into that luxury. Others who have weathered many many years with no candy, know how special and miraculous it really is and the real roots behind where those ethics and faith in hard work came from.

Mark Few and John Wooden are a special unique luxury. I cannot expect the average person to understand what really went into how and why we get to share the product they put out for the world to enjoy.

Rio Runner
02-26-2011, 04:49 PM
I'm not even very religious myself, but to try and take the importance of religion out of Mark Few and John Wooden is a gross disservice to them.

I'm not taking the importance of religion to these people out of the equation. I am saying there are many, many reasons why someone becomes ethical. And for some people, religion is a non-factor. You, on the other hand, appear to be saying that Mark Few and John Wooden are/were ethical and successful ONLY because of their religious comittments. And to that I say nonsense.

MJ777
02-26-2011, 04:54 PM
I am shocked that so few people want to give any credit to Gonzaga University for hiring religiously based Mark Few and that we recruit like minded kids and students regardless of their religious background.

OK!! OK!! I give up.

The Jesuits beliefs at Gonzaga University had nothing to do with the ethics or integrity of our coaches or teams!!! As most here apparently believe, Nothing, zip, zero.

Open the candy wrapper and that candy will still provide the same enjoyment whether or not you know what went into it to create it or not. Some enjoy it simply at its face value, others know the entire process and respect the simple pleasures that the hard work of generations of farmers, factories and sales people it took to put the final product in your mouth.

I think most people here want to avoid controversial issues unless it involves which point guard gets the majority of playing time. Seriously though, religion is a personal matter and it makes some uncomfortable to discuss it, even on a message board for a Catholic university. JMO

Oregonzagnut
02-26-2011, 05:03 PM
I'm not taking the importance of religion to these people out of the equation. I am saying there are many, many reasons why someone becomes ethical. And for some people, religion is a non-factor. You, on the other hand, appear to be saying that Mark Few and John Wooden are/were ethical and successful ONLY because of their religious comittments. And to that I say nonsense.

You WANT me to appear to be saying that like so many religious "discussions" turn into. That is why this is all my bad, because should have remembered it always turns ugly.

Where have I ever said ONLY. Why be so narrow about the Jesuits or Mark Few or our athletes or me as having been taught by them. Its a team effort. Mark Few doesn't run around playing all five positions. But in Gonzaga's instance, which is what we are talking about. The Jesuits and Gonzaga University played a big role in providing the foundation for Buoncristiani, Fitz, Monson and Few to be successful. Few has stated it. The biggest reason for our success isn't physical athleticism or skill. It is character and the faith that hard work and team effort wins.

Why is it so hard for some to give ANY credit to the Jesuits.

kitzbuel
02-26-2011, 07:53 PM
More on this topic here:

http://guboards.com/showthread.php?t=33245

hoopaddict
02-27-2011, 06:22 AM
Back to the original post, AMEN BROTHER!

Hoopaholic
02-27-2011, 06:32 AM
oregonzagnut

With you 100%.....thank you

vandalzag
02-27-2011, 07:00 AM
Read up on John Woodens faith and how he integrated his beliefs into coaching to help produce what he did. Wooden success and his faith in God are inseparable. From his own mouth!!.

His faith in God and Sam Gilbert are inseparable. Faith and ethics were not hand in hand at UCLA.

1973Zag
02-27-2011, 07:08 AM
Excuse me for walking into Theology 101, I signed up for Basketball Forum 101

Zagsker
02-27-2011, 07:11 AM
Mark Few's father is Presbyterian - not Baptist. Also, while I appreciate that the school has high ethical standards, Mark would have high ethical standards anywhere he might coach. It is part of who he is and how he was raised. While Gonzaga benefits from this, it was part of his DNA long before he started coaching at Gonzaga. I also believe there are other coaches out there with the same high standards and they coach at schools with no relationship to the Catholic Church.

bingo

Zagsker
02-27-2011, 07:17 AM
nm

Zagsker
02-27-2011, 07:19 AM
Fellow Oregonian, I'm convinced that your point is that a belief in God, with consequent attitudes and behaviors, might have an effect on the selection of players and their success in a team sport. And I don't believe that you're saying that nonbelievers can't be as or more successful. And I hope you're not saying that all those who profess a belief in God have higher moral standards than nonprofessors (didn't the Oregon Province SJ declare bankruptcy two years ago because of claims from priestly rape and sodomy of children?)

Seems to me some people live good and honorable lives because of religion, some don't, some do without religion, and again, some don't. Religious belief, affiliation with a particular denomination or order, and superficial piety, is not a necessary and sufficient condition for moral behavior.

Go Zags!

Excellent

Oregonzagnut
02-27-2011, 08:04 AM
Move this where it is appropriate.

This thread truly is, as the OP states, about Mark Fews high standards of ethics and integrity. Not his basketball skills.

My bad for reminding us of our Jesuit heritage and Mark Fews Christian upbringing.

Zagsker
02-27-2011, 10:01 AM
Move this where it is appropriate.

This thread truly is, as the OP states, about Mark Fews high standards of ethics and integrity. Not his basketball skills.

My bad for reminding us of our Jesuit heritage and Mark Fews Christian upbringing.

I forgive you

gamagin
02-27-2011, 10:47 AM
Move this where it is appropriate.

This thread truly is, as the OP states, about Mark Fews high standards of ethics and integrity. Not his basketball skills.

My bad for reminding us of our Jesuit heritage and Mark Fews Christian upbringing.

I-CAN'T-BELIEVE-HOW-UNGRATEFUL THESE-LITTLE-WRETCHES-ARE-AFTER-ALL-I' VE-DONE-FOR-THEM of the Oregon Province of the Little Sisters of the Downtrodden & Pathetic Non Believers of Silliness & Perpetual Ungratefulness.

Let the Perpetual Light Shine upon them.

kitzbuel
02-27-2011, 12:09 PM
I for one am proud of the Christian identity of Gonzaga University and traditions of faith and knowledge that it is built upon. The Jesuit tradition of education has always been at the forefront of an intellectually rigorous defense and propagation of our Catholic faith in Christ.

That culture at Gonzaga is what makes me so proud that GU has been able to do what it does in the gymnasium, but it also makes me proud to see the impact it has on the lives of it alum even decades after graduation.

Go Zags!

Oregonzagnut
02-27-2011, 04:17 PM
If you have read it read it again and see how it relates to what has helped create our programs high ethical standards.

http://www.gonzagabulletin.com/teach...ench-1.2014443

Gamagin, I am sorry that when you think of the Jesuits you think of some horrible abuse. You are not the only one and it is a huge problem with no easy answer.


I-CAN'T-BELIEVE-HOW-UNGRATEFUL THESE-LITTLE-WRETCHES-ARE-AFTER-ALL-I' VE-DONE-FOR-THEM of the Oregon Province of the Little Sisters of the Downtrodden & Pathetic Non Believers of Silliness & Perpetual Ungratefulness.

Let the Perpetual Light Shine upon them.

But to use this shameful act and twist sarcastic humor into it simply to put a spin against me or the Jesuits is kinda sick. All my experiences with Jesuits and Nuns are some of my lifes greatest moments.

In fact after reading this article, I am forced to believe that religion and ethics play an even greater role in our success than I thought. I just commented on our history and saw the chain of cause and effect. No Jesuits, no Gonzaga, and therefore, no Zag hoops.

If you like to debate a "which came first the chicken or the egg" thing. Fine. But you will contradict what Mark Few has himself said, that he fell in love with Gonzaga and Gonzaga fell in love with him.

Once again I say from my scientific background: Mark Few and Gonzaga is a first rate classic example of Mutual Symbiosis. And living proof for survival of the fittest in an evolving basketball program. God or no God, their ethics and standards are the same and have strengthened each other even more. And that is why no matter what recruit comes in, if they buy into Gonzaga's program, they will be better off for the rest of their lives and be better on the basketball court to boot.