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View Full Version : Where does the SMC game rank as far as all time importance in modern GU basketball?



Zag@LMU
02-23-2011, 09:25 AM
Its gotta be a top 5 one to me.

NCAA Tourney vs UCLA
S16 vs UF
2009 S16 vs UNC (The one GU team that could have won it all imo)
2008 Battle in Seattle vs #2. UCONN (?)
2011 GU@SMC

Kiddwell
02-23-2011, 09:33 AM
Don't know "where" exactly this game ranks in importance, but do know this: We beat SMC and USD, and the Zags separate themselves from other history-making schools that've had 10 straight conference titles. It becomes UCLA alone with 13; Zags alone with 11.

Given the entire history of college basketball, that's pretty...darn...big.

:]

MDABE80
02-23-2011, 09:35 AM
It doesn't.

Sorry if I offended.

gu03alum
02-23-2011, 09:40 AM
It ranks so low on my list that it isn't worth a spot on my list.

Zag4Hire
02-23-2011, 09:40 AM
Its gotta be a top 5 one to me.

NCAA Tourney vs UCLA
S16 vs UF
2009 S16 vs UNC (The one GU team that could have won it all imo)
2008 Battle in Seattle vs #2. UCONN (?)
2011 GU@SMC

It may sounds like I am avoiding the question but I think what separates GU from most other programs has been the consistency throughout the past decade plus. All of the big games have been bricks in the house that has been built by the staff, players, students, fans, etc. over the course of time. Essentially, a sum of all big games. I think it could be listed as a big game nonetheless because GU faces history ending or continuing with this game regarding the streak. However, at the end of the day, win or lose, GU will remain a big name and will continue to face 'big' games. I think for some programs like maybe Bucknell and George Mason, they can point to one particular moment in time such as a big win over Kansas or GM's run to the Final Four. However, for Butler, Xavier, Temple, and Gonzaga, consistency has been the norm and if you took away one particular achievement (perhaps sans Butler's Final Four Championship appearance), they still are big name programs in mid-major conferences.

RenoZag
02-23-2011, 09:43 AM
If they win and manage to preserve the conference championship winning streak, it will rank in the Top 10.

If they lose, it just won't matter. All of the chips will be riding on getting to the WCC Championship game ( not guaranteed by any stretch of the imagination ) and winning that game to garner the NCAA Tourney automatic bid. . .

Go Zags ! Beat SMC !!

Pleasant Peninsula
02-23-2011, 09:47 AM
It doesn't.


+1

Every NCAA tournament game the Zags have ever played ranks ahead of this one and at least a dozen regular season games, too.

bullzag23
02-23-2011, 09:56 AM
+1

Every NCAA tournament game the Zags have ever played ranks ahead of this one and at least a dozen regular season games, too.

A dozen regular season games, really? I can understand if NCAA games were included in that figure but when was the last time we had a game that was almost certain to decide the fate of an historic conference winning streak? I can recall some OOC games that were big for seeding/ranking purposes, but we have not played a regular season WCC game this big in the past 10 years. The closest I can recall would be Santa Clara back during the 'Shroomgate year when it was win or go home.

The streak makes this game soooo much more important then any OOC game IMO. I would honestly take an NCAA appearance over any regular season accomplishment but this is the biggest WCC game we've had since Few has been coach. Even the players are talking about how thursday's game means so much to the program.

gamagin
02-23-2011, 10:09 AM
on the agenda of the 2010-2011 team. So far this season.

U Zig, I Zag
02-23-2011, 10:11 AM
Every year there are games that get us to the NCAA tourney. This year there were a bunch of whiffs. This game is as important as any if playing in the NCAA tourney matters and even more so if the WCC conf crown matters (both streaks and people seem to argue that both are important for different reasons). This is a big game. All the other games are behind us, the only one and therefore the biggest one is the one coming up.

Let's get to it, Zags.

zag944
02-23-2011, 10:13 AM
surely its behind every March Madness game, and every WCC tourney championship.

but lets go out and win it.

Fonebone
02-23-2011, 10:49 AM
I agree with Kidwell. We beat St. Mary's and San Diego and 25 years from now we will still likely be alone at # 2 in the most consecutive league championships. For that reason and that reason alone I feel this game is historically huge.

Otherwise, it is a big game for this year, but that is all.

MDABE80
02-23-2011, 10:55 AM
on the agenda of the 2010-2011 team. So far this season.

lolol..good hedge!

Pleasant Peninsula
02-23-2011, 11:03 AM
Question.

Would you rather:

A) Win on Thursday. Capture share of WCC crown. Continue to win WCC championships for three more years. Hold record. Lose in first round of the '11 NCAA tournament.

B) Lose Thursday. Streak ended. Win WCC auto-bid. Win opening NCAA tournament game. Lose in second round.

I choose B. The streak is a nice feather in our cap and I hope it is extended. But I'd trade it all for one NCAA tournament win. Just one.

23dpg
02-23-2011, 11:46 AM
B but its close.

FieldHouseFishHouse
02-23-2011, 11:51 AM
This is a great question and post.

I guess it all depends on what happens in the future. If GU wins tomorrow, loses in the WCC final, then gets an at-large bid, the GU win over SMC would serve to extend both streaks.

If the WCC conference streak goes to 15 years, perhaps this game will take on more importance.

If a loss tomorrow lights a fire and the Zags win their next 7 or 8 games, the game would be one of the most important losses in their history.

LongIslandZagFan
02-23-2011, 11:51 AM
It doesn't rank against post season games. Not even the same ballpark.

But, if you were to ask most important conference game, ever... this one would assuredly be toward the top.

GrizZAG
02-23-2011, 11:51 AM
1) Salvage a crappy season and maybe get to the dance again.

2) Keeps the streak of making the NCAA March Madness alive..would be nice.

Less important, but important...continues to solidify Gonzaga as the big dog in WCC and takes some ego out of the Mary's...

Also makes us the big target when BYU comes into the fray.... not that we wouldn't be already...

Oh...one more very important: Builds confidence level for our newbies going into the next season!

Reborn
02-23-2011, 11:57 AM
In the top 10. I would put it behind the Sweet 16 vicotry over Florida in '99, the Elite 8 loss to UCONN, the Sweet 16 loss to UCLA and the loss to Arizona in double overtime to go to the Sweet 16. I would say it is not as important as any of years we played to get into the Sweet 16 and then to get into the Elite 8. They would not only be that game vs UCLA BUT ALSO games against Standford in '99, the win over St John's in 2000 to reach the Sweet 16 and their loss to Purdue in the Sweet 16 in 2000. I think it also would include the Zags vicotry over Indiana in '06 to reach the Sweet 16, and the victory in '09 over Western Kentucky where Goodson made the shot at the buzzer to put the Zags into the Sweet 16.

Tomorrow's game is certainly huge though because it keeps their current winning streak going; this keeps momentum going forward. It will give us a great chance of winning the conference championship, thus putting us in second place all alone for the most consecutive conference titles.

It's also a huge game for St. Mary's because they are sliding backwards. If they keep losing they may NOT make it to the NCAA tournament. ST. Mary's is also looking for their first ever conference championship under Bennett. They will be as hungry too, but not as hungry as the Zags. If Saint Mary's loses tomorrow they still have one more game to get a share of the conference championship. It's going to be a great game, for Gonzaga.

rijman
02-23-2011, 01:10 PM
This game is not as important to me because we can win this game then lose in the WCC tourney and miss the NCAA's. Playing SMC in the WCC finals would be a much bigger game to me with much more at stake in the way of money and national recognition. The WCC streak is good, but discounted by the major conferences and their fans because of the level of competition and I doubt it's very important to Zag recruits. For me, this upcoming SMC game ranks well behind the WCC and NCAA tourney games

jazzdelmar
02-23-2011, 01:41 PM
as a wcc game its maybe top 10 but no way it holds a candle to the gu-pep game at the slim gym.....THE wcc game for the ages.......

Hoopaholic
02-23-2011, 02:57 PM
jazz.....i read your post and got shivers....my that memory invokes odd physical reactions to me.......awesome game

ZagsGoZags
02-23-2011, 04:40 PM
in the top ten
This year has questioned our skill level, our heart, our coaching. If we win Thur, we are conference champions (co champions, but nevertheless), and might get an at large selection even if losing WCC tournament.
This question is about Thur night, period. Not what happens after that.
It is better for the players, program, opponents, recruits and fans to think of us as a power that remained a power (coming back from fears we might not be a power anymore) but had a mid season setback from which we recovered
than
to not be conference champs, not make history, and accept that the fears about our skill level, heart and coaching were true.
This win puts us in the history books alone with UCLA's fabulous run with Jabaar and Walton in the big picture, and
this win in the small picture means we had the metal to capitalize on San Diego's win.
Just from a recruiting standpoint there is a big difference between joining a team that is a perennial power, and joining a team that is usually a power.
IMHO

now, shut down MM and Delavadova ....? (the guy with the boxer's mouthpiece) to not give them many looks, and
2) take advantage of their relative lack of depth by trying to get their big men in foul trouble, and run them, run them, go out to them if they are slowing down to capture their energy back. Run em, run em, our fresh legs tire out their six best players.

Also, I would rank the WCC tournament this year in the top ten also, for about the same reasons.

DixieZag
02-23-2011, 05:40 PM
Very compelling post above.

The season will be defined by this game, IMHO - caveat; unless we win the WCC final and then run deep, like 3 wins, then that trumps losing the WCC streak.

I really really want to watch next year and see UCLA, Gonzaga - one, two in terms of conference streaks, if we can do that, and we can take the big big step tomorrow, it will be something that is talked about for 50 years - The Year they came back. Yes, it happened before with SCU losing two but that was not when the streak was approaching national implications.

Lets just agree, we know tomorrow night's game is huge, only time will tell how huge it was.

NEC26
02-23-2011, 05:59 PM
I honestly think for historical purposes this game is clearly top ten. More important by far than any first round tourney game.

nonzagzag
02-23-2011, 06:00 PM
I think top non-tourney game ever.

If we do win conf title #11, not only will we be 2nd only to UCLA, but also we have a pretty decent chance at winning 3 more titles to tie or surpass UCLA

(of course UCLA was also winning national championships at the same time)

ZagsGoZags
02-23-2011, 07:10 PM
hahahaha a mere technicality
but
actually it testifies to the difficulty of such a run, it took a repeating national champion to repeat conference championships

Pleasant Peninsula
02-23-2011, 07:24 PM
I think folks are overestimating how the college basketball nation as a whole views this "streak". Right now, nobody cares. Getting to second place on the list will mean nothing to anyone outside of the GU fan base. If and when Gonzaga passes UCLA, it will get some passing notoriety, but even then it is going to come with several asterisks in people's minds: big fish/small pond, lack of significant tournament achievements during that time frame, etc.

Obviously, I'm severely underestimating how many GU fans view this streak, however. It's mind boggling to me that one could place a heavier weight on it than a tournament game, but to each their own.

NEC26
02-23-2011, 07:30 PM
I think folks are overestimating how the college basketball nation as a whole views this "streak". Right now, nobody cares. Getting to second place on the list will mean nothing to anyone outside of the GU fan base. If and when Gonzaga passes UCLA, it will get some passing notoriety, but even then it is going to come with several asterisks in people's minds: big fish/small pond, lack of significant tournament achievements during that time frame, etc.

Obviously, I'm severely underestimating how many GU fans view this streak, however. It's mind boggling to me that one could place a heavier weight on it than a tournament game, but to each their own.

I think you highly overestimate how the college basketball nation views a first round tourney game. Unless its a huge upset no one remembers a one and done team anyway but for me I really could care less what everyone else thinks I personally view our streak as quite an accomplishment that is far harder to do than play in a first round game. Now if you are talking sweet sixteen or elite eight game I would agree.

Pleasant Peninsula
02-23-2011, 07:36 PM
A streak that is of far more importance (to me, at least) is one that I'd like to see ended this year.

It's been eight years since Gonzaga has overachieved in the tournament. By that I mean, since defeating Cincinnati in the first round of of the '03 Tournament, Gonzaga has lost every game against a team with a better seed. In that time, they've lost three heartbreakers to teams with a lower seed, and that doesn't even include the UCLA debacle.

Pleasant Peninsula
02-23-2011, 07:38 PM
Now if you are talking sweet sixteen or elite eight game I would agree.

You have to win your first round tournament game in order to have a chance at a S16 or E8 game. You don't have to be regular season conference champion.

GeorgiaZagFan
02-23-2011, 07:38 PM
Would you rather win this one and lose in Vegas? OR lose this one and win in Vegas?
Of course I am greedy and want both....but if you could only have one....that becomes the more important game.

I believe the game in Vegas will be much more important than this one! To make the NCAA tournament will build towards next year and beyond. Losing only Gray and to have the recruits coming in.....the experience gained could go well towards a deeper run next year!

NEC26
02-23-2011, 07:55 PM
You have to win your first round tournament game in order to have a chance at a S16 or E8 game. You don't have to be regular season conference champion.

If your saying that you would rather have the chance to play in the sweet sixteen or farther I could see that but your quote from earlier is this
"Every NCAA tournament game the Zags have ever played ranks ahead of this one and at least a dozen regular season games, too."
That statement I do not at all agree with. Like I said I'm pretty sure no one remembers our one game flame out against Indiana (or take your pick of early exits)but people will certainly know about an 11 year conference winning streak.
Which is harder to accomplish? Which has been done many times by many teams before?

kitzbuel
02-23-2011, 07:57 PM
As Coach Few said, who would have thought 2 or 3 weeks ago that the Zags would have been trying to win a conference championship on the last week of the conference season. Can't ask for more than that.

Just win, Baby.

MJ777
02-23-2011, 10:30 PM
In the top 10. I would put it behind the Sweet 16 vicotry over Florida in '99, the Elite 8 loss to UCONN, the Sweet 16 loss to UCLA and the loss to Arizona in double overtime to go to the Sweet 16. I would say it is not as important as any of years we played to get into the Sweet 16 and then to get into the Elite 8. They would not only be that game vs UCLA BUT ALSO games against Standford in '99, the win over St John's in 2000 to reach the Sweet 16 and their loss to Purdue in the Sweet 16 in 2000. I think it also would include the Zags vicotry over Indiana in '06 to reach the Sweet 16, and the victory in '09 over Western Kentucky where Goodson made the shot at the buzzer to put the Zags into the Sweet 16.

Tomorrow's game is certainly huge though because it keeps their current winning streak going; this keeps momentum going forward. It will give us a great chance of winning the conference championship, thus putting us in second place all alone for the most consecutive conference titles.

It's also a huge game for St. Mary's because they are sliding backwards. If they keep losing they may NOT make it to the NCAA tournament. ST. Mary's is also looking for their first ever conference championship under Bennett. They will be as hungry too, but not as hungry as the Zags. If Saint Mary's loses tomorrow they still have one more game to get a share of the conference championship. It's going to be a great game, for Gonzaga.

Since GU beat St Johns in 2000 the Johnnies have only been in the tournament once, in 2002. That helps put GU's streak of going dancing 12 straight years in perspective. I am looking forward to GU continuing both streaks this season, and to making a run to the SW 16. BEAT ST MARYS!!