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DixieZag
02-13-2011, 11:12 AM
When KO drove to the basket for the beautiful LEFT handed scoop lay-up - which he was also fouled on but not called - did anyone else think "Few needs to tell him that that is his game and if he wants to see the floor he has to be more aggressive.

I don't know the stats but KO has to be one of our top 3 point shooters and he makes for a dangerous match-up if he can get the ball at the top and either shot the three or drive by his guy and go strong or dish. KO has been the definition of inconsistent, but I think he still has big upside and he has a high BB IQ.

Lastly, I noticed that Hoff seemed to be moving better without the ball and that long range three that he took made me think of the "what if" aspect, if he could look for his shot more by moving w/o the ball, driving and passing occasionally, he will get an aweful lot of open looks - and if he can just flat out bomb that is huge also.

So much potential, so many questions.

FieldHouseFishHouse
02-13-2011, 11:22 AM
When KO drove to the basket for the beautiful LEFT handed scoop lay-up - which he was also fouled on but not called - did anyone else think "Few needs to tell him that that is his game and if he wants to see the floor he has to be more aggressive.

I don't know the stats but KO has to be one of our top 3 point shooters and he makes for a dangerous match-up if he can get the ball at the top and either shot the three or drive by his guy and go strong or dish. KO has been the definition of inconsistent, but I think he still has big upside and he has a high BB IQ.

Lastly, I noticed that Hoff seemed to be moving better without the ball and that long range three that he took made me think of the "what if" aspect, if he could look for his shot more by moving w/o the ball, driving and passing occasionally, he will get an aweful lot of open looks - and if he can just flat out bomb that is huge also.

So much potential, so many questions.

Yeah, KO is 3rd in 3pt%, but he is 7th in attempts, right ahead of Meech. Olynyk's range is a glimmer of an upside, but his free throw percentage (61%), his inability to finish strong, his turnovers (1.4 in 14 minutes per game) are more telling right now.
I never said it on this board, but I had a crazy idea last fall that I wanted to see them red-shirt KO his soph year.
He has a lot of growing up to do, physically and mentally, before he maxes out his potential (which I think is definitely All-WCC or better).

mnzag24
02-13-2011, 02:10 PM
agreed, KO will make a great play followed by a not so great play, the classic young player problem. promising, but frustrating....

NorthoftheBorder
02-13-2011, 03:35 PM
If both Rob & Elias return then maybe Kelly should redshirt next year. Kelly would be the fourth post player next year and might play less than the 14 minutes per game he's averaging this year. If he redshirted then he would probably average over 25 minutes per game in his final two seasons.

Also, Kelly is a very good student and this would allow him to have 5 years of university paid for through scholarship and he could start on a Masters Degree.

NEC26
02-13-2011, 03:44 PM
If both Rob & Elias return then maybe Kelly should redshirt next year. Kelly would be the fourth post player next year and might play less than the 14 minutes per game he's averaging this year. If he redshirted then he would probably average over 25 minutes per game in his final two seasons.

Also, Kelly is a very good student and this would allow him to have 5 years of university paid for through scholarship and he could start on a Masters Degree.

I kind of had the same thought process in the back of my head as well. He would get a lot more playing time that way and it gives him one more year to improve. Its been done before but I doubt it happens as it would be awful tough for a player to do.

zagzilla
02-13-2011, 03:45 PM
Redshirting KO won't happen. Although if the rationale was that he was growing and needed a year to re-adjust his coordination to being a true 7 footer then it wouldn't be too embarrassing for him.

I hope he gets away from this soft outside "euro big" game. Reminds me too much of Heytveldt who fell into this and never achieved his potential.

Kelly: you're a big with high athleticism. Get in there and force your will on the game! Don't fall in love with the 3 pt Jimmy.

ZZ

NorthoftheBorder
02-13-2011, 03:55 PM
Kelly's choice might be:

2011-12 .... 12 mpg
2012-13 .... 25 mpg

or

2011-12 .... redshirt
2012-13 .... 25 mpg
2013-14 .... 28 mpg


Why wouldn't you trade one season of 12 mpg for one season of 28 mpg (and get part of your Master's Degree paid for?)

Martin Centre Mad Man
02-13-2011, 04:42 PM
I think this kid has a lot of potential. I also worry that he won't reach it until his fourth year or even later. He could be a contender for WCC player of the year if he reaches his potential before graduation. My fear is that he'll finally reach a breakout season after he graduates and is playing somewhere in the pros or for the Canadian national team.

That redshirt year might actually benefit him and the program. He still looks like he has a lot of growing to do and needs to spend a lot more time getting used to playing like a seven-footer. He needs to work on his post moves. He needs to get stronger. He needs to get used to that larger body.

A Spangler, Dower, K.O. front court could be a very promising group in a couple of years.

thespywhozaggedme
02-13-2011, 05:08 PM
Kelly's choice might be:

2011-12 .... 12 mpg
2012-13 .... 25 mpg

or

2011-12 .... redshirt
2012-13 .... 25 mpg
2013-14 .... 28 mpg


Why wouldn't you trade one season of 12 mpg for one season of 28 mpg (and get part of your Master's Degree paid for?)

Honestly, that's actually a great idea. Few has always said that it's up to a player of he wants to red shirt, if someone put this bug in KO's ear and he did do that next season, it would be a win/win for him and the Zags. Great thinking.

WeSayZed
02-13-2011, 05:13 PM
I donít see any way that Harris comes back next year. He came back this year to work on his SF skills, but that hasnít worked out very well for him. I donít know why heíd come back for another year, especially if he was going to be playing PF. I expect him to be playing pro in Europe next year.

I also think thereís only about a 50% chance that Rob will be back, and I donít think Kelly is necessarily behind Dower on the depth chart either. Kellyís overall numbers are very good. Itís hard to know what Few is doing with his rotation but if I had to guess Iíd say that weíre limiting Kellyís minutes for developmental purposes. If heís still getting used to his new body, or even still growing, it may not be good for him to be playing a lot of minutes right now. Itís also important for us to be giving Dower some minutes to develop him in case we lose both Harris and Sacre.

NEC26
02-13-2011, 05:17 PM
I donít see any way that Harris comes back next year. He came back this year to work on his SF skills, but that hasnít worked out very well for him. I donít know why heíd come back for another year, especially if he was going to be playing PF. I expect him to be playing pro in Europe next year.

I also think thereís only about a 50% chance that Rob will be back, and I donít think Kelly is necessarily behind Dower on the depth chart either. Kellyís overall numbers are very good. Itís hard to know what Few is doing with his rotation but if I had to guess Iíd say that weíre limiting Kellyís minutes for developmental purposes. If heís still getting used to his new body, or even still growing, it may not be good for him to be playing a lot of minutes right now. Itís also important for us to be giving Dower some minutes to develop him in case we lose both Harris and Sacre.

What exactly do you base your 50% chance on Rob coming back? Cracks me up some of the posters here thinking he is headed to the NBA when at this point he most likely wouldn't even be drafted.
As for Harris if he wants to go play in Europe I could see that but he won't be flying to the NBA either.

WeSayZed
02-13-2011, 05:25 PM
What exactly do you base your 50% chance on Rob coming back? Cracks me up some of the posters here thinking he is headed to the NBA when at this point he most likely wouldn't even be drafted.
As for Harris if he wants to go play in Europe I could see that but he won't be flying to the NBA either.
Did I say NBA?

Why would Rob not come back?
-He’s graduating this year.
-He may think the best place from him to develop further is in the pros, either in Europe or the NBA.

NEC26
02-13-2011, 05:30 PM
Did I say NBA?

Why would Rob not come back?
-He’s graduating this year.
-He may think the best place from him to develop further is in the pros, either in Europe or the NBA.

Why do you keep pushing this? He has never hinted at this. Do you have some sort of agenda? Not sure how many times you have peddled this stuff now.

WeSayZed
02-13-2011, 05:42 PM
Why do you keep pushing this? He has never hinted at this. Do you have some sort of agenda? Not sure how many times you have peddled this stuff now.
Youíre starting to annoy me. First you suggested that I said Rob was going to be drafted, when I said nothing of the sort, and how youíre pretending that you donít know Rob is graduating this year? Or maybe youíre saying that you didnít know that Rob wants to play pro basketball? Whatever youíre trying to say itís too dumb to respond to.

mnzag24
02-13-2011, 05:50 PM
people don't realize that the NBA is more likely to have a lockout than the NFL. NFL gets all the attention, butt he NBA is losing millionso f dollars and there is no easy way to fix it. it won't be pretty folks... college basketball might have more talent next year than in recent memory because people won't declare and will stay in school, rather than declare and face the possibility of losing a year of playing time/eligibility.

Birddog
02-13-2011, 05:50 PM
Wesay. If you're posting about your hunches, call them as much. If you have some facts, cite them.

NEC26
02-13-2011, 05:52 PM
Youíre starting to annoy me. First you suggested that I said Rob was going to be drafted, when I said nothing of the sort, and how youíre pretending that you donít know Rob is graduating this year? Or maybe youíre saying that you didnít know that Rob wants to play pro basketball? Whatever youíre trying to say itís too dumb to respond to.

You do realize there are many many players that graduate before finishing their collegiate careers right?
If you honestly believe Sacre is going to leave early for Europe then its pretty clear you are just throwing wild speculation out there.
My response that he wouldn't even be drafted was because that would be the only plausible reason for him to leave early in the first place. Which was what your post was about.
My question remains why do you keep peddling this stuff? Sacre clearly loves it here and never has hinted at leaving early(nor should he). So why keep bringing it up and stating its a 50% likelihood as if you have some kind of info on it.

JPtheBeasta
02-13-2011, 06:06 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those who think Rob or Elias are leaving next year for Europe and that Kelly deserves more minutes than Dower right now are in the minority.

If Kelly wants more PT he shouldn't be holding his breath waiting to fall into it. Minutes are earned. At least that's how my simple mind sees it.

ZagLawGrad
02-13-2011, 06:11 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those who think Rob or Elias are leaving next year for Europe and that Kelly deserves more minutes than Dower right now are in the minority.

If Kelly wants more PT he shouldn't be holding his breath waiting to fall into it. Minutes are earned. At least that's how my simple mind sees it.

I'm on your team on this one.

WeSayZed
02-13-2011, 06:28 PM
You do realize there are many many players that graduate before finishing their collegiate careers right?
If you honestly believe Sacre is going to leave early for Europe then its pretty clear you are just throwing wild speculation out there.
My response that he wouldn't even be drafted was because that would be the only plausible reason for him to leave early in the first place. Which was what your post was about.
My question remains why do you keep peddling this stuff? Sacre clearly loves it here and never has hinted at leaving early(nor should he). So why keep bringing it up and stating its a 50% likelihood as if you have some kind of info on it.
You keep saying ďleave earlyĒ but in fact heís been at Gonzaga for 4 years and heíll be graduating this year, so thereís no school reason for him to come back. And you may not like it but he has pro basketball in his future. The questions he and every player with pro aspirations ask are, where is the best place for me to develop and when should I turn pro? Itís nothing more than common sense to say that he would consider turning pro this year. You may not like it. You may be in total denial about it, but thatís your problem not mine.

WeSayZed
02-13-2011, 07:11 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that those who think Rob or Elias are leaving next year for Europe and that Kelly deserves more minutes than Dower right now are in the minority.

If Kelly wants more PT he shouldn't be holding his breath waiting to fall into it. Minutes are earned. At least that's how my simple mind sees it.
With respect to Harris I think itís safe to say that youíre waaaaaay out on a limb. Itís common knowledge that he was planning on turning pro after this year, so youíd have to come up with some reason why heíd change his mind. His draft stock has dropped this year, but youíd have a very hard time arguing that it would improve by him coming back to play PF next year.

With respect to Rob you may well be in the majority, but with respect to Kelly I donít know where you are, because no one in this thread has suggested what youíre saying.

Birddog
02-13-2011, 07:24 PM
Holy O'Horse $hit man, you don't need a shovel, you're doing fine digging a hole barehanded.

With respect to Harris I think itís safe to say that youíre waaaaaay out on a limb. Itís common knowledge that he was planning on turning pro after this year, so youíd have to come up with some reason why heíd change his mind. His draft stock has dropped this year, but youíd have a very hard time arguing that it would improve by him coming back to play PF next ye

I'm reasonably sure that you're confusing "knowledge" with "speculation". Making a habit of that practice seriously damages your credibility.

NEC26
02-13-2011, 07:29 PM
You keep saying “leave early” but in fact he’s been at Gonzaga for 4 years and he’ll be graduating this year, so there’s no school reason for him to come back. And you may not like it but he has pro basketball in his future. The questions he and every player with pro aspirations ask are, where is the best place for me to develop and when should I turn pro? It’s nothing more than common sense to say that he would consider turning pro this year. You may not like it. You may be in total denial about it, but that’s your problem not mine.

All right lets talk about his pro aspirations. I think its safe to say he wants to play in the NBA so what would be his best avenue of getting there?
He has improved every year since coming to GU so I don't think its a stretch to say he would improve his senior year here thus improving his stock in the draft(lets say mid second rounder possibly higher). Not to mention he gets good publicity here.
Now if he were to go to Europe he faces a whole lot of new challenges.Uncertainty of playing time, possibly not meshing well, maybe not playing much at all. Plus the likelihood of not even getting paid(happens quite a bit). Not to mention he would not be getting any publicity over here whatsoever. It makes no sense whatsoever to go to Europe absolutely none.
As for going to the NBA this year, as has already been said, that is not likely so he is far better off staying in both scenarios.

ronh_pm
02-13-2011, 07:46 PM
Was this thread about Olynyk or was it mistitled by the O.P; I'm sorry, I can't tell? Hope I'm not off base on writing a bit about Kelly here.

I'm still puzzled about where he fits on the floor. Offensively, though being every inch of seven feet tall, he is clearly not a 4-5 guy. He prefers the 3 spot and scoring from the perimeter or shot fake/dribble drive.

I believe Few tried him with Sacre and Dower which turned out to be a mess defensively and until Dower and Olynyk can D-up Few will have to go with the hot hand of Dower and use Harris with them to limit the liability in thier own end.

His best moments from what I have seen come with Sacre and Harris or with a three guard set playin hi-lo with Sacre.

WeSayZed
02-13-2011, 08:13 PM
All right lets talk about his pro aspirations. I think its safe to say he wants to play in the NBA so what would be his best avenue of getting there?
He has improved every year since coming to GU so I don't think its a stretch to say he would improve his senior year here thus improving his stock in the draft(lets say mid second rounder possibly higher). Not to mention he gets good publicity here.
Now if he were to go to Europe he faces a whole lot of new challenges.Uncertainty of playing time, possibly not meshing well, maybe not playing much at all. Plus the likelihood of not even getting paid(happens quite a bit). Not to mention he would not be getting any publicity over here whatsoever. It makes no sense whatsoever to go to Europe absolutely none.
As for going to the NBA this year, as has already been said, that is not likely so he is far better off staying in both scenarios.
You were doing pretty well up until the end of the bolded part, and then you lost it completely. Letís just forget about the rest and stick with the part where you were making sense. Those are reasons why he might stay. The reasons why he might go are that heíd be playing against a higher level of competition, and heíd be getting paid, and heíd be getting different coaching. Would he be wasting his time, and a yearís income, playing another year in the WCC, or does he feel that by working another year with our coaches he could perhaps improve his rebounding the way he improved his FT shooting last year? This is what he has to decide.

WeSayZed
02-13-2011, 08:26 PM
Was this thread about Olynyk or was it mistitled by the O.P; I'm sorry, I can't tell? Hope I'm not off base on writing a bit about Kelly here.

I'm still puzzled about where he fits on the floor. Offensively, though being every inch of seven feet tall, he is clearly not a 4-5 guy. He prefers the 3 spot and scoring from the perimeter or shot fake/dribble drive.

I believe Few tried him with Sacre and Dower which turned out to be a mess defensively and until Dower and Olynyk can D-up Few will have to go with the hot hand of Dower and use Harris with them to limit the liability in thier own end.

His best moments from what I have seen come with Sacre and Harris or with a three guard set playin hi-lo with Sacre.
He hasnít been a 4-5 in the past, but by virtue of his recent growth spurt he is now. Heís got a lot to learn, but heís still been very productive in limited minutes. I hope for his sake, and ours, that heís finally stopped growing.

WeSayZed
02-13-2011, 08:29 PM
Holy O'Horse $hit man, you don't need a shovel, you're doing fine digging a hole barehanded.


I'm reasonably sure that you're confusing "knowledge" with "speculation". Making a habit of that practice seriously damages your credibility.
No, I mean knowledge, and Iím not going to bother looking up the references. Anyone whoís read this board regularly over the last year will know that this was his plan going into this year.

Pargo the Destroyer
02-13-2011, 08:31 PM
Interesting posts in this thread. Kelly plays more like a 3. Rob will be back, E, well, not too sure. E should come back, he's played like dogballs all year. All speculation of course, except E playing like crap.

Baseline
02-13-2011, 08:34 PM
If we are gazing into crystal balls, here is what mine say.

Rob will be back and will be a huge force next year

Harris will be back, the NBA lockout potential stops him from declaring and he wont go to Europe, he has smelled the money and glory of the NBA

Dower will come on like gang busters next year and be #1 in scoring most games.

Kelly has several options. Few needs to turn him lose and get him to shot a lot of 3's. He used to rain them in in high school. A would love to see Kelly drive a lot. The lane opens up for him quite a bit and with a small amount of dribbling he could be at the rim or dish to another open big. I know Kelly is fighting getting used to his body, but one he does he could be very dominating. I would measure Kelly every month and if he grows another inch between now and next year, he needs a red shirt to help him adjust.

The freshman class will show their pedigree and will carve out starting rolls and major minutes.

coolhandzag
02-14-2011, 08:17 AM
:pI thought this thread regarding Kelly.

In my opinion....

1. Rob will be back.
2. E will be back.

Why....

1. NBA lockout
1.1 Even if that does not happen neither is ready for the NBA.
2. Playing is Eurpoe is not all that. I have had personal conversations with two members of the 1999 team on this point of consternation. The teams you play for, may not end up paying you....for whatever reason.
3. Once GU gets into your blood it's a hard habbit to break. Those "random" phone calls I recive every six months from GU's donations request department take advantage of that fact. :doh:

There may be money (doubtful) for Rob and E next year. There may better coaching for the pair next year (equally doubtful). But the quality of the experience will not be paralleled for either. Ask Casey, Adam, Ronny, Matt, Richie, Dan, Blake or any other number of players.

Go Zags.

NotoriousZ
02-14-2011, 08:51 AM
No, I mean knowledge, and Iím not going to bother looking up the references. Anyone whoís read this board regularly over the last year will know that this was his plan going into this year.

And since everything reported on this board is 100% accurate...

Geez man, can't you even pretend to want these guys to come back next year? I know it's not going that great right now, but all this team needs to do is get it together in time for Vegas. And I think it could all start clicking this week and we could run the effin' table. But then again I'm a "glass is half full" kind of person.

Ezag
02-14-2011, 08:57 AM
Both would be foolish to leave after this season

U Zig, I Zag
02-14-2011, 10:07 AM
KO redshirting is not a bad idea. He has some moments, but man, he looks lost and totally uncoordinated a lot of the time. He can't finish with power, uses finesse way, way too much and would rather patrol the permiter than putting his chest into the faces of the defenders. A season to thin up and get more lean muscle, to get his feet under control and to learn to punsh people at the rim would be a good thing. He is young, there is time.

Rob will be back. He likes it here and there is much work to do. He is not pro ready (I imagine his dream is NBA and not getting paid half the time in some Euro-league). He needs to get quicker, needs to take his guy face up with a few dribbles. Hands work, hands work, hands work. Scouts probably like him. Show them a video of him his FR year and now. One more year will solidify him. He will be a talked about player on the national scene if he comes back.

Elias is 50/50. He needs to drop 15/17 lbs. Skinnier E is better than bulky or even 'muscular' E. He is fearless (opposite of Kelly). That part is taken care of. He needs more moves, a step back, etc. He needs to be able to grab a board and go coast to coast with ease. He needs to dribble lower to the ground. He needs to not lose the ball so easily (never seen such big dudes get the ball taken from them so easily, Gray, E, Sam, Rob. kind of pathetic, really). Defensive needs work. Don't leave your feet so much, quicker shuffling of the feet and playing straight up. He still needs to shift to the 3 full-time (that's where his pro future would be). Needs a hook shot. If he could get an x-over this year he would just kill. He seems to like it hear, he has fans. I could see him tiring and not liking where he is going and want to go home. He is a long way from home and he may just want to take his chances elsewhere.

DixieZag
02-14-2011, 10:17 AM
I am the original poster and I meant for the thread to actually be about Kelly and discuss the best way to use him b/c he is obviously struggling or at least inconsistent in his play. I am intrigued by the suggestion of a red-shirt year next year. It is so rare for a sophmore who has been playing to red-shirt that I wonder if it is a serious consideration.

I don't know how the thread transformed into something else entirely, maybe b/c I said "so many questions".

I was so impressed with his drive to the hoop against Pepp and he has won us a game or two (Baylor) with his three point shooting. I just don't think we are getting enough out of him. Would his drive work against Pitt, Duke, or even UW - unlikely, for now.

OZZY
02-14-2011, 03:02 PM
IMHO Kelly's game is suffering from lack of confidence. The depth of the Zags this year and the improvement in Rob's foul avoidance has meant that he is not getting as many minutes on the floor. I think the yanking of a player quickly after a mistake has many second guessing what they should do at times. Yes he may look unco-ordinated (who wouldn't given his growth situation) but he has a high IQ and is an effective shooter and passer (while mostly showing some hussle).

It is possible that next year he may get less minutes not more, what with Spangler being added to the mix and the other bigs most likely coming back. My biggest worry is that Kelly and his family may look to find another team to play for.

U Zig, I Zag
02-14-2011, 03:20 PM
It is possible that next year he may get less minutes not more, what with Spangler being added to the mix and the other bigs most likely coming back. My biggest worry is that Kelly and his family may look to find another team to play for.

I would hate to see him go, but I could see that as well. Seems like we have had an exodus of players the last two years. Though, Kelly seems to like it here. Other players had other issues I think, playing time (and potential playing time) the following year notwithstanding. We will lose 1 or 2 early this year again, just have a feeling. Rather leaving for the pros (Europe) or just not wanting to be here anymore and looking for PT. All speculation, just a hunch. Not starting any rumors. I have heard not a word.

Once and Future Zag
02-14-2011, 03:32 PM
IMO, Kelly just needs time to get used to his "new body" and acquire the concomitant skillset.

As it stands, I think his play is remarkable (especially his 3P%) given his growth spurt in such a finesse sport.

I'd rather see him as sort of a (Soph year) Heytveltish PF, than some sort of (Senior year) Heytveltish C, where he's told to bulk up and play the post rather than use his more established skillset... and yes I know Kelly's not quite as quick as Josh, though with those long strides he takes, he'd be great in a more transition-oriented offense.

OZZY
02-14-2011, 03:37 PM
I would hate to see him go, but I could see that as well. Seems like we have had an exodus of players the last two years. Though, Kelly seems to like it here. Other players had other issues I think, playing time (and potential playing time) the following year notwithstanding. We will lose 1 or 2 early this year again, just have a feeling. Rather leaving for the pros (Europe) or just not wanting to be here anymore and looking for PT. All speculation, just a hunch. Not starting any rumors. I have heard not a word.

The playing time is obviously the major negative for Kelly, he cannot develop sitting on the sideline. On the positive side (from what I understand) he does love Gonzaga and is a top student. The alternatives...redshirting, changing to another school or Europe (I believe after his performance at the FIBA mens tournament he did have interest from some top clubs). His game does suit the European style of play.

Obviously the best things for GU would be for him to stop growing and start improving his co-ordination and confidence (with the help of the coaching staff). If this is able to happen he will end up a special player for GU.

Kiddwell
02-14-2011, 03:45 PM
If we are gazing into crystal balls, here is what mine say.

Dude, you have crystal balls??? :p

:]

Stache
02-14-2011, 04:41 PM
There's an 83% probability the Rob is going eat Lucky Charms for breakfast tomorrow. I'm just saying.

NotoriousZ
02-14-2011, 05:31 PM
There's an 83% probability the Rob is going eat Lucky Charms for breakfast tomorrow. I'm just saying.

No, I got the skinny...he's going Crunch Berries.

Back to Kelly--he'd be crazy to transfer to another D1 school and sit out a season. Wouldn't he rather redshirt and have Pangos and Bell feeding him the ball when he comes back?

Attention: possible hyjack. Whenever I think of Pangos and GBJr. I can't help but think how Wiltjer really messed up. Maybe he got the McD's All-American by going to Kentucky, but he could have been a real All-American or even POY by coming here.

MickMick
02-14-2011, 09:04 PM
My only problem with Kelley is that he is foul prone. He picks them up in a hurry.

The timing of his fouls are bad as well. He occasionally "bails out" the opponent when the shot clock is running down.

75Zag
02-14-2011, 09:16 PM
Last year Foster was a spotty 7 footer with a few moments of fun.

This year Olynyk is a spotty 7 footer with a few moments of fun.

Right now I would do an even swap of Foster in his Senior year with Olynyk this year. Maybe Olynyk gets great. Maybe not.

Go Bulldogs!. Win Out In Vegas!

Baseline
02-14-2011, 09:18 PM
I think the one think Kelly could do to improve his game is to aggressively take to the Rim. For a big guy he dribbles pretty good and he has long strides when he makes his move. He needs to immediately take a shot if open, not hesitate and if the shot isn't there start driving. I think he could be almost unstoppable if he worked on that.

ronh_pm
02-14-2011, 10:17 PM
Last year Foster was a spotty 7 footer with a few moments of fun.

This year Olynyk is a spotty 7 footer with a few moments of fun.

Right now I would do an even swap of Foster in his Senior year with Olynyk this year. Maybe Olynyk gets great. Maybe not.

Go Bulldogs!. Win Out In Vegas!

This is funny. There is a reason some people are plumbers, doctors, pilots and carpenters while others are coaches, recruiters and analysts

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=will-foster&i=1&p1=kelly-olynyk

OZZY
02-14-2011, 10:29 PM
This is funny. There is a reason some people are plumbers, doctors, pilots and carpenters while others are coaches, recruiters and analysts

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=will-foster&i=1&p1=kelly-olynyk

Nice work Ron.

Good to bring some facts to the table. The main thing is that Kelly is still a young player with so much more going for him than just height.

ronh_pm
02-15-2011, 06:46 AM
I apologize for soundy snarky to the poster I was replying too and coming across as I know what it takes for a player to contribute in Coach Few's system because I don't.

I was just meaning that Kelly's contributions, though maybe down at the moment, have been significant when his number has been called. I believe that once Kelly gets his defensive issues sorted out his minutes, and his numbers will be back.

I can't imagine what it must be like when Few screams from the bench for him to "use your feet" when he is playing defense as his feet are about 6-5 away from his brain. I dont think it works quite as easy for the bigs to move and keep a body in front. His size also causes some odd fouls to be called against him that I think if he was a 6-3 guy, might not get whistled down. It's just the optics of arms and legs everywhere, with the feet been a little slower than the former.

As for uncoordinated, I'm not buying that. 7-0 guys look awkward when they are sitting down on a couch in sweats playing Xbox. Smooth, no. Graceful, no. Uncoordinated, no; just not asthetically pleasing, :)

cjm720
02-15-2011, 08:46 AM
Last year Foster was a spotty 7 footer with a few moments of fun.

This year Olynyk is a spotty 7 footer with a few moments of fun.

Right now I would do an even swap of Foster in his Senior year with Olynyk this year. Maybe Olynyk gets great. Maybe not.

Go Bulldogs!. Win Out In Vegas!

Are you serious? Come on, that's just crazy.

I'm a huge KO fan. Wish he saw the floor more, but with 30 man rotation it's tough this year. For every good play, he seems to make a bone head one. I still believe he can be instrumental on this team...he's like a hybrid 3/4. Perfect the high post lob, outside range, and most quickness and I believe he will more than deliver.

coolhandzag
02-15-2011, 09:23 AM
Kelly will never redshirt. His parents will pull him. Ask Wildrose.

CDC84
02-15-2011, 09:33 AM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/02/14/nba.scouting.finch/index.html



Elias Harris, 6-8 sophomore forward, Gonzaga

Anonymous NBA Scout: He has been very disappointing. Coming off last year I thought he would take a big step and be terrific. Part of it is that he has been hurt and has to carry more of the load, but he has not played with the kind of energy that got my attention last year.

hooter73
02-15-2011, 10:53 AM
On Kelly and Harris it is ALL about the summer. Its been discussed before (what hasnt?) but not going to their world leagues would do mountains for their games.

Kiddwell
02-15-2011, 03:51 PM
On Kelly and Harris it is ALL about the summer. Its been discussed before (what hasnt?)

Turnips...Bulgaria...they haven't been discussed here before.

:]

gamagin
02-15-2011, 04:23 PM
Turnips...Bulgaria...they haven't been discussed here before. :]

hemorrhoids and why they shouldn't discourage us from going to the dance.

EngineerZag
02-15-2011, 04:56 PM
KO has more offense from 25 feet than Foster did from 2 feet.

GU69
02-15-2011, 05:07 PM
His parents will pull him.

When I was that age I was able to make my own decisions about where I went to school.

gamagin
02-15-2011, 09:15 PM
When I was that age I was able to make my own decisions about where I went to school.

you must have had at least two paper routes to afford college, room & board, books, tuition and travel at 19.

ID ZAGFAN
02-15-2011, 09:28 PM
When I was that age I was able to make my own decisions about where I went to school.

Well, at 17, I was able to choose my freshman year--Denver University.

Then my sophomore year, my parents said no, because I had a boyfriend they did not approve of. So, I got a job in the cafeteria, and a government student loan and left anyway, paying for the rest of college myself and graduating 2 quarters early--and paid off my student loans through the NDEA getting loans cancelled by teaching.

No paper routes!!!

Zagranny

ZagsGoZags
02-15-2011, 10:47 PM
The skill set of Kelly far exceeds that of Big Will, bless his heart
and the potential of Kelly is NBA, but I don't think that was ever for Will
Kelly is fundamentally coordinated
that is worth a lot
and he works hard, has a good attitude and is coachable

coolhandzag
02-16-2011, 07:52 AM
When I was that age I was able to make my own decisions about where I went to school.

It appears that most, all but one, of Wildroses' post have been deleated. What a shock.

What will Kelly's basketball future hold? I can't say, but the NBA looks to be quite a bit away.

bigparb
02-16-2011, 08:21 AM
I think the yanking of a player quickly after a mistake has many second guessing what they should do at times.

this has been discussed in various places here......so i apologize for bringing it up again, but I think this point needs to be mentioned as much as possible...

bigparb thinks fewie has done quite the "mind-job" on Kelly/Manny.....and a warning needs to be given to Hoff/Keita....

can't stand it when coaches do this......I've seen it done to too many kids.......

gozagswoohoo
02-16-2011, 08:33 AM
Back when I was Kelly's age, I had to walk to school in the SNOW!! Uphill....BOTH ways! And I wore shoe box's as my shoes.

bullzag23
02-16-2011, 08:34 AM
Back when I was Kelly's age, I had to walk to school in the SNOW!! Uphill....BOTH ways! And I wore shoe box's as my shoes.

You had shoe boxes? All I had was barbed wire to wrap around my feet for traction :D

gamagin
02-16-2011, 08:34 AM
this has been discussed in various places here......so i apologize for bringing it up again, but I think this point needs to be mentioned as much as possible... bigparb thinks fewie has done quite the "mind-job" on Kelly/Manny.....and a warning needs to be given to Hoff/Keita.... can't stand it when coaches do this......I've seen it done to too many kids.......

He has said many times that a Zag coming off the bench needs to be ready to go. right away. This is discussed, encouraged, ordered and expected. It is also practiced and practiced until, one would think, it becomes second nature.

So when Few sends in a player, it is with the understanding that he is to follow the order of practice and (for example) shoot. Or get into positiion underneath. Or run a play. Or be ready when a play is run. On and on.

When that same player enters the game and becomes clearly lost, forgets the mission or play, gets out of position or generally looks,acts and is lost, out he comes. Whether that is in one minute or 10.

Imagine a quarterback sent in to run the sneak who throws a pass, instead. What's a coach to do ?

I'm not defending Few. But I understand it after listening to his side on the numerous talk shows. These kids are thrown into the fire. But they are not thrown in without adequate training. They are thrown in with training and THEN expected to use that training.

Manny, SD, KO, Keita (to a lesser extent that I can tell), MM, EH, DG & SG have all lost track of their games at times and been pulled.

Yet, for a few, like Keita, KO, Manny & SD (less so lately) they STILL tend to go off the rails and lose focus, or "something" that lands them on the bench. But according to Few, it's not for nothing.

gozagswoohoo
02-16-2011, 08:58 AM
You had shoe boxes? All I had was barbed wire to wrap around my feet for traction :D

Oh...well....by "boxes", I meant cardboard with shards of glass, hot molten lava, and rusty nails all glued to it.

Bogozags
02-16-2011, 03:17 PM
Oh...well....by "boxes", I meant cardboard with shards of glass, hot molten lava, and rusty nails all glued to it.

You boys from the Mid-West are mighty tough! I would have found it tough just walking to and from school up-hill!

Bogozags
02-16-2011, 03:44 PM
There is a lot going on behind the scenes on this team, sure I'm curious as to why some things happen but Coach hasn't called for a looonnng time...

Josh played out of position, he would have been a great four and Austin would have made an incredible three...we didn't have a five or a four so they both got moved up a position.

KO has a great skill set but is a tad slow to play a three defensively. If he had to guard SG, then I believe SG would take him almost every time...just my opinion.

With regards to confidence, I think it goes two ways: (1) Coach Few has to have confidence in your ability to play at the high level he expects and (2) the player has to have confidence in himself to be effective.

If Coach Few doesn't have confidence in me as a player then I am going to speak with him to find out what it is I can do to change his feeling about me. I would then endeavor to work on those areas as best I could. I would like to think that the coach would see my work ethic and how hard I'm trying in practice to give me a decent shot.

KM got almost no playing time at the beginning of the season and then he had a breakout game. He stared, got lots of playing time and then something happened. He went from being an integral part of the team to not playing a minute in the SMC game. As I said there is lots going on behind the scenes but it isn't our business.

I think KO could RS and benefit from a year off to get more comfortable with his "new body" but am not sure he would accept the suggestion.

I would love to see him be more involved in the offense but it appears Coach Few likes to run the O through SG, EH and Rob and then anyone else that might be open. MC has gained more confidence lately and plays very nicely and don't know what caused his improvement but am appreciative of what he does with the ball. Manny has a nice offensive game but it seems like he realizes he is the fourth of fifth option and he plays hesitantly too. I remember seeing him play with the U19 team before he came to GU. I was so impressed with him and really believed he was going to have a great career at GU and he might still but it could be hard for him to thrive in this system.

I think KO has more upside than all but SD on this team at this point and time. Yes, that is a strong statement and I rate SD higher because of his offensive skills.

Someone else brought up a really good point regarding KO and EH pertaining to the amount of time they played this past summer. Your work a particular muscle every other day to allow it to rest and grow and don't think KO or EH had that necessary rest period. Ok, so why didn't it affect Rob the same way, I don't have that answer but Rob made the largest jump from last year. His FT shooting is fantastic and his offense is better too. He got better while KO and EH have not had the same success. Maybe it is the sophomore slump that we saw in SG after such a great freshman year.

One other thing, Coach Few has had a really hard time cutting his team down to an 8 or 9 man squad. I don't know any team that plays 11 players each game at least my coach never did and I was #10 on the team...

One last thing...Rob doesn't have the skill set at present to play in the NBA and EH needs to improve on the skill set he has to ever play at the next level.

The sweet taste of revenge tomorrow night...Go Zags beat SCU!!!

Baseline
02-16-2011, 09:59 PM
Oh...well....by "boxes", I meant cardboard with shards of glass, hot molten lava, and rusty nails all glued to it.

My dad used to nail boards to my feet for shoes. I have to admit that worked pretty good, but Oh man, did I hate getting new shoes!

bullzag23
02-17-2011, 06:22 AM
My dad used to nail boards to my feet for shoes. I have to admit that worked pretty good, but Oh man, did I hate getting new shoes!

But I always LOVED 'new shoe smell'!

B Wayne
02-18-2013, 08:14 PM
I agree with those that think Olynyk should red shirt next year in 2011-2012. . He can grow into his body and work on his strength and balance. The Zag staff should really be able to help out and Kelly has a strong work ethic.

When he comes out in 2012-2013, he should be able to make the transition to a 4 or 5, being able to mix it up physically inside, but with guard skills. I know this sounds extreme, but this lethal combination which could end up making him one of the top players in college basketball.

ZagsGoZags
02-18-2013, 09:11 PM
channeling and predicting, I am proud I got some right on KO. I can't say I saw it coming [channeling] but I will say I predicted Kelly.

that KO Canada Boy has the greatest upside of anybody on the team,
......and it will come true Mar 21, 2011

KO will be come "KNOCKOUT KELLY" give him lots more PT and he will explode next year, or he will explode next year and get lots more PT,
that is my prediction[/QUOTE] Apr 8, 2011

May 10, í11 PT will accelerate his development more than EH or even Sacre. .. KO will end up playing at a very high level, and I stick my neck out and say again he will finally be in the NBA, though it may take many more years. I think he will get quicker. He gets fewer rebounds stripped from him than Sacre and EH do.

nobody is a bigger fan of KO than I am<BR>see previous posts on this if you don't think so... like others on here, I think he still looks like a puppy dog in motion, a German Shepherd one yr old with big bones, and muscle and coordination not yet a match
I think he'll get quicker with a red shirt year, and it worked well for Sam and Sacre who both took their turn at red shirt years
I hope he and the coaches play him at the 4, not 5, because of his ball handling skills, I think he is of more value in NBA as 4 not 5, even a three if he could get quicker on defense and stronger on driving with the ball
Oct 27, 2011

We are all crazy with happiness for him and about him, and I hope he will stay another year before leaving for the NBA. Another prediction: Kelly will be a slow gradual developer in the NBA like John Stockton was. Some players hit the NBA almost at their ceiling, but that will not be KO.

FieldHouseFishHouse
02-19-2013, 06:53 AM
Yeah, KO is 3rd in 3pt%, but he is 7th in attempts, right ahead of Meech. Olynyk's range is a glimmer of an upside, but his free throw percentage (61%), his inability to finish strong, his turnovers (1.4 in 14 minutes per game) are more telling right now.
I never said it on this board, but I had a crazy idea last fall that I wanted to see them red-shirt KO his soph year.
He has a lot of growing up to do, physically and mentally, before he maxes out his potential (which I think is definitely All-WCC or better).

As long as we're patting ourselves on the back....

B Wayne
02-19-2013, 07:01 AM
Great job ZaggoZags and Fieldhouse. Those are amazing predictions and insights you made two years ago. Alot of the others thought you were wrong suggesting a redshirt year or great improvement. By the way, you brought up the redshirt option before it was ever mentioned by the team!

sittingon50
02-19-2013, 07:53 AM
I'm sure they got the idea from this board, like most of their other good ideas.

;)