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gamagin
02-07-2011, 08:35 AM
Run all the plays we've been running all season. Defensive sets, too, depending on what's being thrown at us. We can be pretty good, and effective, too, doing most of what we do best.

HOWEVER.

On offense, the open man shoots. Whether its underneath or up top. When there is a clear view of the basket and everyone else is covered, the open guy lets it fly.

Everyone knows this will be happening so those not open need to react as if they know what's coming. Which means the movement under the net is to go for the rebound or put back.

We anticipate instead of react too late. We move knowing the shot is coming, not after the shot is launched. We know what we are going to do to get that position, increase our odds of a board, and the other guy does not. We don't let the other guys stand and block us out until someone shoots. we move and use our size and height to make it difficult, if not impossible, to be blocked out, unless they want to foul.

Those not shooting are also looking for the ball and the shooter follows his shot, too. We only move towards the basket on offense most of the time. No one and done's without a serious battle underneath. Every time.

On Defense, we OWN our position under the net and we guard the perimeter up and under our opponents chins (not sagging and then running like we're desparately trying to catch the bus that is leaving the station with arms in the air).

Until the final buzzer. From now on.

Why do this ? Because that is what the teams who beat us did to us.

They set up camp under the net at both ends, (their open man) shot against our sagging defense and doubled (and even tripled at times) against our inside-out game, counting on us not to shoot and not to change our game to counter these obvious moves.

And, for the most part, like clockwork, we didn't.

Every recruit we have came in as a shooter. Every one was a star. There are no real bad shooters on this team, only players who aren't expected to shoot. What we have now is an attitude. A hunch about who should and should not shoot.

We, along with our opponents, know who is going to shoot, and who is not. We are as predictable as the Solstice. You could set your watch by us.

It hasn't worked out because the hot hand might not be the person we expect. So find the hot hand. Feed him. Whoever he is. Wherever he is playing.

Open the game up and let the other guys worry about endless adjustment to the ebb and flow of our game. Not the other way around.

Okay, spread out, run the play and demand the ball and shoot it. Don't think about it. Plan it and then do it. ANd on D: Deny. Deny. Deny.

U Zig, I Zag
02-07-2011, 08:52 AM
I agree. Whatever it is we have been doing offensively has been stagnant at times this season. At this point we need to win out, not just for a chance at an NCAA birth, but a chance to put themselves back on the map, a chance to go out as winners instead of a group of coulda woulda's.

Time to get creative on offense. Make your own shots, fellas. Help each other out. Crash the boards.

ZagLawGrad
02-07-2011, 08:55 AM
Get mentally tough.

This team can shoot baskets and get rebounds, and can even play good "D" is it so chooses.

But will it?

siliconzag
02-07-2011, 09:03 AM
On offense, the open man shoots. Whether its underneath or up top. When there is a clear view of the basket and everyone else is covered, the open guy lets it fly.

Everyone knows this will be happening so those not open need to react as if they know what's coming. Which means the movement under the net is to go for the rebound or put back.

We anticipate instead of react too late. We move knowing the shot is coming, not after the shot is launched. We know what we are going to do to get that position, increase our odds of a board, and the other guy does not. We don't let the other guys stand and block us out until someone shoots. we move and use our size and height to make it difficult, if not impossible, to be blocked out, unless they want to foul.

Those not shooting are also looking for the ball and the shooter follows his shot, too. We only move towards the basket on offense most of the time. No one and done's without a serious battle underneath. Every time.

On Defense, we OWN our position under the net and we guard the perimeter up and under our opponents chins (not sagging and then running like we're desparately trying to catch the bus that is leaving the station with arms in the air).

Until the final buzzer. From now on.

Why do this ? Because that is what the teams who beat us did to us.

They set up camp under the net at both ends, (their open man) shot against our sagging defense and doubled (and even tripled at times) against our inside-out game, counting on us not to shoot and not to change our game to counter these obvious moves.

And, for the most part, like clockwork, we didn't.

Every recruit we have came in as a shooter. Every one was a star. There are no real bad shooters on this team, only players who aren't expected to shoot. What we have now is an attitude. A hunch about who should and should not shoot.

We, along with our opponents, know who is going to shoot, and who is not. We are as predictable as the Solstice. You could set your watch by us.

It hasn't worked out because the hot hand might not be the person we expect. So find the hot hand. Feed him. Whoever he is. Wherever he is playing.

Open the game up and let the other guys worry about endless adjustment to the ebb and flow of our game. Not the other way around.

Okay, spread out, run the play and demand the ball and shoot it. Don't think about it. Plan it and then do it. ANd on D: Deny. Deny. Deny.

This is brilliant. The only way to open up the middle, i.e., to make it easier on both Harris and Sacre, is for guys other than Gray to shoot. The opponents already know about plan A,B,C, and have those covered. The guys need to start launching, and our big boys need to start playing like their size (play like the big dogs they are!) Gamigin is on to something here. Confidence is something that I haven't seen in a Zag team for a long time. Confidence breeds success and viceversa. Perhaps they need a shrink that can help them with guided imagery, so they can imagine the ball going through the hoop before they launch it, instead of worrying about whether it will be a brick and the coach will sit them down. Loosen up lads! Let em fly!!!! Great post Gamigin.

GrizZAG
02-07-2011, 09:27 AM
Chemistry...hmmm. on my mind..

Is it possible that Steven is so revered by the others they somehow have it in their heads and hearts that they need to see Steven take those shots? Steven is Soooo smooth and athletic I can see how the others might be deferring to him maybe?? As stated prior, these guys were all stars at some point and they need to rev it up and go for it. Nothing to lose this year...

EngineerZag
02-07-2011, 09:32 AM
One other thing. DON'T BENCH THE HOT HAND!!

How many times has that happened this season? Someone gets hot, and then BAM they're on the bench. Drives me absolutely nuts.

U Zig, I Zag
02-07-2011, 09:35 AM
*cough* Sam *cough*

BobZag
02-07-2011, 09:53 AM
Simplify, simplify, simplify. Keep It Simple Stupid. Better to be great at a few things than be average at many things.

What's a bieber? -Ozzie Osbourne

roxdoc
02-07-2011, 11:20 AM
You really hit the nail on the head - particularly about the predictability. Tired of only seeing "our big guy is better than your big guy" as our main option.

Some people here seems to think its the player's fault for not taking open shots and that they should shape up and start contributing! LOL. The fact is that the coaches have an every-game plan (that by now everyone is on to) that does not involve most of the team shooting the ball. Players know what will happen to them if they break the rule, and its hot potato time.

The excuse for not playing certain "shooters" may be their defense. However, in my mind the "big three" have not been consistently good on defense for a number of games now. In fact it is pretty hard to think of who are the best defenders now - they all seem fairly similar.

Rant over. Gamagin's excellent post just pushed my button.

75Zag
02-07-2011, 11:50 AM
Here is my recipe. Pick the best 8 players on the team. Send all of the other players and two or three of the assistant coaches on an all expense paid trip to Disneyland for the next 4 weeks. Win or lose, live or die with your best 8 kids. Maybe it works, or maybe the "Schmit" hits the fan. At least we gave it a shot.

I do not think the answer to GU's problems will be found in playing an 11 or 12 player rotation.

Go Bulldogs! Win in Vegas!

ZagsGoZags
02-07-2011, 03:08 PM
Gamagin mentions players following their shots in towards the basket.

This is obviously not coached at all at GU. I don't care if three GU players are already mid court, with only one to rebound, when a GU player lets his shot go, he takes off for the other end as if he knew his shot would go in. Then about a tenth of the time the ball bounces right back to where that player would have been if he had followed his shot in. I thought this was a basic high school coaching point. This is totally true of Harris for any shot farther than 12 feet out, but also Gray,and MM,. Sometimes Kelly, David, and Manny will follow their shots in.

If you are attempting a three from the top of the key area, yeah, be the first defender down the court to block a fast break on opponent's part. Otherwise follow your shot in.

Reborn
02-07-2011, 05:31 PM
1. The first piece of a receipt for winning begins with the coach. Trust Mark Few and his game plan, and the way he substitutes. He has a lot of success with this team, and I believe he's done a great job with this group of inexperienced guys. He has definitely made the right substitutions and the right calls more often than not. In review of the game, Monninghoff played as well as anyone could have. He was not the problem. He only gave up the one basket in the 9 minutes he played. HIs D was fine. I think Few will continue to figure everything out as we move forward.

2. I believe the second piece is that you need talented players. The Zags have plenty of that.

3. The 3rd incredient for winning out is to get the most out of the talent. This has been the problem with the Zags this year in our losses. And I believe it will be the main key to winning either the conference title or conference tournament championship.

4. The next incredient is to get this talent playing together, and playing unselfish basketball. I think the Zags are improving in this area each week. We must remember that there are 3 or 4 new guys playing this year: Stockton, Carter, Dower and Monningoff/Keita. It has taken time to get these guys up to speed with everything, but I believe it's happening. The bench is playing very well I think.

5a. The fianl thing the Zags need to win is Leadership. Steven Gray and Rob Sacre must play better. Their play needs to be at a high level every game, and their play needs to shine with confidence. Both Steven and Rob have been inconsistent in their play over a period of time, imo. Both of them have had games in conference where they have lacked energy or fire. They must bring it every game now, or it isn't going to happen.

5b. Elias Harris must find himself. He should be part of the leadership on this team. Along with Steven and Rob, the team really conted on Elias this year, and I think more than the other two. His play has not been at a high level, and if we are going to win it all, I believe that he needs to really bring a whole lot more to the court. However, Elias playing at a high level is not as important as Rob and Steve playing at their highest level. The reason I say this is I think the team has stopped counting on Elias. I know that I have, and the team has adjusted well. Dower and Olynyk have done a pretty good job making up for the lack of what was expected from Elias.

A LITTLE LUCK WOULD HELP! MAYBE LADY LUCK WILL BE WITH THE ZAGS THE REST OF THE YEAR. THEY HAVE CERTAINLY HAD THEIR SHARE OF BAD BREAKS!!!

NEC26
02-07-2011, 05:43 PM
1. The first piece of a receipt for winning begins with the coach. Trust Mark Few and his game plan, and the way he substitutes. He has a lot of success with this team, and I believe he's done a great job with this group of inexperienced guys. He has definitely made the right substitutions and the right calls more often than not. In review of the game, Monninghoff played as well as anyone could have. He was not the problem. He only gave up the one basket in the 9 minutes he played. HIs D was fine. I think Few will continue to figure everything out as we move forward.

2. I believe the second piece is that you need talented players. The Zags have plenty of that.

3. The 3rd incredient for winning out is to get the most out of the talent. This has been the problem with the Zags this year in our losses. And I believe it will be the main key to winning either the conference title or conference tournament championship.

4. The next incredient is to get this talent playing together, and playing unselfish basketball. I think the Zags are improving in this area each week. We must remember that there are 3 or 4 new guys playing this year: Stockton, Carter, Dower and Monningoff/Keita. It has taken time to get these guys up to speed with everything, but I believe it's happening. The bench is playing very well I think.

5a. The fianl thing the Zags need to win is Leadership. Steven Gray and Rob Sacre must play better. Their play needs to be at a high level every game, and their play needs to shine with confidence. Both Steven and Rob have been inconsistent in their play over a period of time, imo. Both of them have had games in conference where they have lacked energy or fire. They must bring it every game now, or it isn't going to happen.

5b. Elias Harris must find himself. He should be part of the leadership on this team. Along with Steven and Rob, the team really conted on Elias this year, and I think more than the other two. His play has not been at a high level, and if we are going to win it all, I believe that he needs to really bring a whole lot more to the court. However, Elias playing at a high level is not as important as Rob and Steve playing at their highest level. The reason I say this is I think the team has stopped counting on Elias. I know that I have, and the team has adjusted well. Dower and Olynyk have done a pretty good job making up for the lack of what was expected from Elias.

A LITTLE LUCK WOULD HELP! MAYBE LADY LUCK WILL BE WITH THE ZAGS THE REST OF THE YEAR. THEY HAVE CERTAINLY HAD THEIR SHARE OF BAD BREAKS!!!

+1 good post.

allnet59
02-07-2011, 05:53 PM
Get better offense out of the three position. Who ever is running the point please be a play maker whether shooting, passing, or playing defense. Make your teammates better with your skills. Elias Harris bring your A game to the basketball game for the rest of the season. Play like the athlete you really can be. Everyone needs to block out and own the boards like someone is trying to steal your lunch money. Play with a swagger and put teams away with a killer instinct. This team has the players and skill set to win out and in Vegas as well. Believe in yourselfs.

Zagsker
02-08-2011, 09:35 AM
1. The first piece of a receipt for winning begins with the coach. Trust Mark Few and his game plan, and the way he substitutes. He has a lot of success with this team, and I believe he's done a great job with this group of inexperienced guys. He has definitely made the right substitutions and the right calls more often than not. In review of the game, Monninghoff played as well as anyone could have. He was not the problem. He only gave up the one basket in the 9 minutes he played. HIs D was fine. I think Few will continue to figure everything out as we move forward.

2. I believe the second piece is that you need talented players. The Zags have plenty of that.

3. The 3rd incredient for winning out is to get the most out of the talent. This has been the problem with the Zags this year in our losses. And I believe it will be the main key to winning either the conference title or conference tournament championship.

4. The next incredient is to get this talent playing together, and playing unselfish basketball. I think the Zags are improving in this area each week. We must remember that there are 3 or 4 new guys playing this year: Stockton, Carter, Dower and Monningoff/Keita. It has taken time to get these guys up to speed with everything, but I believe it's happening. The bench is playing very well I think.

5a. The fianl thing the Zags need to win is Leadership. Steven Gray and Rob Sacre must play better. Their play needs to be at a high level every game, and their play needs to shine with confidence. Both Steven and Rob have been inconsistent in their play over a period of time, imo. Both of them have had games in conference where they have lacked energy or fire. They must bring it every game now, or it isn't going to happen.

5b. Elias Harris must find himself. He should be part of the leadership on this team. Along with Steven and Rob, the team really conted on Elias this year, and I think more than the other two. His play has not been at a high level, and if we are going to win it all, I believe that he needs to really bring a whole lot more to the court. However, Elias playing at a high level is not as important as Rob and Steve playing at their highest level. The reason I say this is I think the team has stopped counting on Elias. I know that I have, and the team has adjusted well. Dower and Olynyk have done a pretty good job making up for the lack of what was expected from Elias.


In one hand you say trust in Few...but in the other you say we are not maximizing our talent. That's Few department and so far our offensive sets have not worked to maximize our talent and our sub rotation has not helped either. Hard for guys to become consistent when their playing time is so inconsistent. IMO this has been a very poor coaching job by Few this year...so far

gamagin
02-08-2011, 09:46 AM
In one hand you say trust in Few...but in the other you say we are not maximizing our talent. That's Few department and so far our offensive sets have not worked to maximize our talent and our sub rotation has not helped either. Hard for guys to become consistent when their playing time is so inconsistent. IMO this has been a very poor coaching job by Few this year...so far

sorry, reborn, but your post reads like a manual with half the pages missing. It might have been useful last summer, but the thread is an attempt to suggest how we win the rest of our games, if it's possible.

For e.g. if EH doesn't "get ahold of himself" as you suggest, he needs to get ahold of himself on the bench while Keita, Manny or SD get in there and play basketball. Zagsker is correct, too.

Few is the one who has to set the tone and decide to put those on the floor ready, willing and able to run the plays every time, run the floor every time and play the game plan while it works and adapt to whatever else happens intelligently.

The time for getting ahold of ones self has passed, imo. Except perhaps while watchng the game from the sidelines.

Baseline
02-08-2011, 04:04 PM
I would start by giving less time to E and more to Sam and Kelly. Work on passing out of double teams. Both rob and Elias get double teamed, we should make them pay for doing that. So far they get buy with it. Get Elias to pass more and work with Rob a bit more, he is doing better, but hitting cutters down the lane are a recent thing, there are more things to be done.
Less dribbling, more passing.

This was a great thread!

Reborn
02-08-2011, 04:37 PM
I think our guys do shoot when open. Our main 9 anyway. Sacre, yes! He has lots of confidence. Harris? Yes! He's not afraid to shoot. Gray? Mm Don't think Steven's afraid to shoot? Stockton? I know he isn't afraid to shoot, and neither is Dower. Kelly? I've yet to see im hesitate when he's open. He's a good shooter. Carter? He's taking every open shot he gets now. Arop? Manny shoots when he's open. He's kind of lost his confidence since San Francisco. Meech, shoots when he's open.

The Zags have had good offense most of the year, and I DO NOT believe that scoring or shooting is our problem. The problem with the Zags lies in the mind, and in the heart. The problem is in the inner person. That's my belief. I believe that because the team is consistently losing close games when, in fact, they have the talent to be winning these games. We did not lose at either Santa Clara or San Francisco because of lack of shooting or scoring. It was defense. Did yu see how many points we gave up in those two games, as well as, how many we scored?

I chose to focus on characteristics that have to do mostly with attitude, desire, and determination. I tried to focus on the inner person and those characteristics that are common in winners. By trusting the coach, I mean that the Zags follow the game plan, as well as trust who he chooses to play. This has not always been the case this year, imo. Second. To win out, and beat Saint Mary's there in their house, the Zags must have the talent to do that. Gamagin, you asked what it would take to win out, and the question, "Do we have the talent this year to do that" is a good question, imo. Do we? If we don't than we will NOT win out. The fourth thing addresses the fact that so far, in some games and in the ones we have lost, the Zags have not played up to their potential as a team. Personally I believe that we should have won the last four games that we lost. Unlike some, I believe the team is talented enough to have won all four of those games. And It is my opinion that the answer to why they haven't will be found in the things I mentioned. This is my opinion. It's not the Bible, and it certainly isn't a basketball manual. You asked a question. I answered it with honesty and sincerety.

gamagin
02-08-2011, 05:17 PM
I think our guys do shoot when open. Our main 9 anyway. Sacre, yes! He has lots of confidence. Harris? Yes! He's not afraid to shoot. Gray? Mm Don't think Steven's afraid to shoot? Stockton? I know he isn't afraid to shoot, and neither is Dower. Kelly? I've yet to see im hesitate when he's open. He's a good shooter. Carter? He's taking every open shot he gets now. Arop? Manny shoots when he's open. He's kind of lost his confidence since San Francisco. Meech, shoots when he's open.

The Zags have had good offense most of the year, and I DO NOT believe that scoring or shooting is our problem. The problem with the Zags lies in the mind, and in the heart. The problem is in the inner person. That's my belief. I believe that because the team is consistently losing close games when, in fact, they have the talent to be winning these games. We did not lose at either Santa Clara or San Francisco because of lack of shooting or scoring. It was defense. Did yu see how many points we gave up in those two games, as well as, how many we scored?

I chose to focus on characteristics that have to do mostly with attitude, desire, and determination. I tried to focus on the inner person and those characteristics that are common in winners. By trusting the coach, I mean that the Zags follow the game plan, as well as trust who he chooses to play. This has not always been the case this year, imo. Second. To win out, and beat Saint Mary's there in their house, the Zags must have the talent to do that. Gamagin, you asked what it would take to win out, and the question, "Do we have the talent this year to do that" is a good question, imo. Do we? If we don't than we will NOT win out. The fourth thing addresses the fact that so far, in some games and in the ones we have lost, the Zags have not played up to their potential as a team. Personally I believe that we should have won the last four games that we lost. Unlike some, I believe the team is talented enough to have won all four of those games. And It is my opinion that the answer to why they haven't will be found in the things I mentioned. This is my opinion. It's not the Bible, and it certainly isn't a basketball manual. You asked a question. I answered it with honesty and sincerety.

I enjoy your perspective and value it. I apologize for snapping at you. I should have just disagreed and not been so lazy about it. fwiw, I do disagree, but that's not the way to do it. You didn't deserve it.

siliconzag
02-09-2011, 07:31 AM
is a mensch, plain and simple.

Do any of you chaps think a little poetry might help?!

Sili

gamagin
02-09-2011, 08:51 AM
is a mensch, plain and simple.

Do any of you chaps think a little poetry might help?!

Sili

thanks

zaguarxj
02-09-2011, 08:52 AM
I'm beginning to hate the "hedge/sag." Either double agressively or stick to your man like glue. Sagging without actually doubling confuses the other defenders. They don't rotate to the player who's being sagged off of because he's supposedly covered (he's not - he's about to hit an open 3). The player who is semi double-covered has a pretty easy time getting the ball to the open guy. Double agressively or don't double at all.

gamagin
02-09-2011, 02:47 PM
I'm beginning to hate the "hedge/sag." Either double agressively or stick to your man like glue. Sagging without actually doubling confuses the other defenders. They don't rotate to the player who's being sagged off of because he's supposedly covered (he's not - he's about to hit an open 3). The player who is semi double-covered has a pretty easy time getting the ball to the open guy. Double agressively or don't double at all.

good post. It seems, too, like everyone else sees this coming. Then it comes. over and over. Like Lucy holding the football for Charlie Brown. Got to be "some" kind of disconnect going on here . . .