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BobZag
06-07-2007, 10:23 AM
The Boise area vs the Spokane area... Which city/place is more crazy, loyal, rabid towards their teams? Boise for Broncos football or Spokane for Bulldogs basketball. With the growth of Boise and vicinity, it is now roughly equal to Spokane and vicinity: 500,000?

What say?

gu03alum
06-07-2007, 10:31 AM
I think this is probably about equal, but I would give the edge to Boise. Football is more popular than basketball. More people can watch the Boise football games in person while there are a lot of people in town who don't follow Gonzaga because it is impossible for them to get a ticket.

stevet75
06-07-2007, 10:51 AM
I agree with you ALUM. I lived in Southern Idaho in the 80's, when BSU was still a IAA school. Even then, the populace were quite the fanatics. The stadium was always full, when I was there, and the Broncos were a constant subject of conversation. By the way, I was an Idaho State fan so the I found the Bronco backers very irritating.
Basketball, in the Northwest, is just not quite on the same level as football.

TR11Zag
06-07-2007, 11:04 AM
BSU football is king in Boise. I don't feel the same level of pride in Spokane about GU. In addition, being good for a long time loses its appeal (Gonzaga) whereas BSU is still in the cinderella/honeymoon phase.

Just my idle thoughts. We're talking about my two favorite college teams

lothar98zag
06-07-2007, 11:15 AM
Another topic - the 2 cities/areas are similar in many ways, size being one of them.

Having said that, unless I'm missing something, the Spokane area seems to have produced A LOT more D-1 basketball players recently.

What's the reason these two similar areas are so different in this regard?

NJZag
06-07-2007, 11:16 AM
The recognition for BSU is recent, the fan fervor by Boiseans for the "hometown team" something going all the way back to BJC days.

pbriz
06-07-2007, 12:01 PM
i agree that in each individual city boise state may have the advantage, but if you extend this debate to the northwest in general and which team is the fav, I think Gonzaga is the hands down fav. My hometown was the portland area and it isn't even close... 10 times more loyal GU fans that BSU fans, I think the same can be said for the Seattle area when I spent time there.

Angelo Roncalli
06-07-2007, 12:07 PM
all the way back to BJC days

You mean it's not BJC anymore? How did that happen?

spudzag
06-07-2007, 01:41 PM
It is still BJC, they are pretenders.

BobZag
06-07-2007, 02:33 PM
When I lived near Boise in the 60's it was a football crazed town. They lived and breathed Troxel's Borah teams. It appears to still be a football town but now with BSU.

But Spokane has changed, I feel. When WSU played at Albi, Spokane was a diehard football town. The Shockers, the Cougs, the high schools. Even SFCC had football back then. I remember going to watch Plunkett, Sixkiller, Thompson, USC, UCLA, ASU (Frank Kush days) and so many more.

Now, I feel, Spokane has changed to be more of a basketball town. With Gonzaga, and Hoopfest being so huge...

But the last time I was in Boise was 1967, so I don't know that town so well anymore.

GU32
06-07-2007, 02:49 PM
Now, I feel, Spokane has changed to be more of a basketball town. With Gonzaga, and Hoopfest being so huge... .


I agree 100% I was in 7th grade when Gonzaga made its first run. And every year until I graduated from high school when Gonzaga played in the tournament, we would either watch the game or the at least have it on in the background. A couple years ago my little brothers grade school teacher made the kids keep track of points, rebounds, assist, during the game, to work on math skills.

NJZag
06-07-2007, 02:57 PM
It is still BJC, they are pretenders.

Van-scan-dal-ous!

un-Ben-gal-ievable!

MickMick
06-07-2007, 05:04 PM
When I lived near Boise in the 60's it was a football crazed town. They lived and breathed Troxel's Borah teams. It appears to still be a football town but now with BSU.

But the last time I was in Boise was 1967, so I don't know that town so well anymore.


Funny you speak of Troxel. Kennewick High School was the doormat of the Big Nine Conference for years until Troxel arrived. He immediately turned that program around. He produced some of the best teams in the school's history. Then he retired and guess what? Doormats....again. Not that the school doesn't produce talent. The Carriker kid from Nebraska (a top 10 pick in the most recent draft) was from Kennewick High.

Something about a charismatic coach. The team couldn't keep enough uniforms in stock there were so many kids turning out for football. And the local newspaper had a love affair with him as well.

zagco
06-08-2007, 07:15 AM
The Boise Metropolitan Area, which encompasses Ada and Canyon Counties and some continguous area, is about half the size geographically of Spokane County, but it has over 600,000 people now. The western end of Ada County (Meridian, Eagle, Star, Kuna) going towards Nampa and Caldwell in Canyon County is growing like KRAZY. As I type, it's probably added 10,000 new people. Seriously. The growth in and around Boise is staggering and has been for some time. It wasn't very long ago that Spokane was decisively bigger.

Boise is extremely rabid about the Broncos. Similar to Gonzaga, games have basically been sold out for years. This year, season tickets will cap out at somewhere north of 22,000, with the remaining tickets reserved for students and visiting teams. In recent years, a first-class indoor practice facility was quickly built by donors. It is similar to the Kibbie Dome in Moscow, except its just for practice instead of actual games. :) Right now, the entire west side of the stadium is undergoing major changes, including a massive 15 story press box/luxury suites, loge boxes, and boxes. It is a massive high rise building that stretches from goal line to goal line coming up behind the existing decks. The existing decks will also be refurbished with new concession areas and other amenities. In the near future, we expect the track to be removed from the stadium into a new track facility, the field to be lowered, and a new ring of about 10,000 seats put in the stadium. The bottom line is that they cannot build fast enough. Game day atmospheres are as good as any I've ever seen. Tailgating from morning to game time is common. The parking lot and entire area around Bronco Stadium is like a giant carnival, with BBQ's and smokers going, drinks being passed around, music playing, and just tons of stuff to do.

Click on the link below to see a presentation of Bronco Stadium expansion:

http://www.broncosports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=9900&ATCLID=536278&DB_OEM_ID=9900&DB_LANG=&IN_SUBSCRIBER_CONTENT=&KEY=&DB_OEM_ID=9900&DB_LANG=&IN_SUBSCRIBER_CONTENT=

I do not live in Spokane anymore, but I visit quite often. I would not say that Boise is more supportive of its team than Spokane is of Gonzaga. I am an alumni of both schools, and I guess my bias makes me believe that the passion for Gonzaga is very deep in Spokane and surrounding areas.

I can tell you that down in Boise, among the Gonzaga people I know, there's plenty of interest. Gonzaga's appeal and rabid fan base goes well beyond Spokane, although the pockets of fans might be small-ish.

I do think one thing hurts Gonzaga: The size of its arena and the inability of so many fans to ever see them play. The television coverage is great, but it is no substitute for being able to get into a game or two per year. I really wish they would go back to playing a game against Eastern (or someone!) in the Arena near Christmas and New Years. The reason I want this to happen is that we go up there on our winter vacation to visit family at that time. It seems like an excellent period of time for Gonzaga to schedule a game in the Arena and market it heavily as a game for alumni. The City of Spokane should be involved as well, as it would be a reason for people to travel to Spokane and spend some money for a night or two. A few years ago, we were able to get into a game at the arena against Eastern, and my daughters loved it. They still have newspaper pictures of Rony Turiaf hanging in their rooms from that game.

Also, the late night games (Monday nights) are in my view not helping Gonzaga with its loyal fans. My daughters cannot watch them play many games, and even I no longer stay up to watch entire games anymore. More recently, it has become a bigger irritant for me. I agree that some sacrifices must be made because having televised games is important for many reasons, including fan loyalty, but I fear this midnight game thing has gone too far.

Gonzaga also has to compete against Washington State to some degree for college sports fans. Boise State is pretty much the only game in town. That helps Boise. However, I'd say it's a draw overall, but I think Gonzaga needs to be concerned with finding ways to get as many of its fans an opportunity to see them play as possible. The size of K2 is a real drawback in my view.

Finally, for those of you who enjoyed the Fiesta Bowl, the following two links take you to two very nicely produced homemade montages of the game with some pretty cool music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IAWXdCJt54&mode=related&search

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjvb52LoPoM&mode=related&search

And in conclusion (I'm a lawyer), Bob is right about Boise being a football town. It has been for as long as I can remember. It likes basketball okay, but nothing like Spokane has become. Crap, sometimes I feel like I'm in Rucker Park when I talk hoops with Spokane people!

In summary, Coach Troxell (the dad, not the Lake City coach) is still remembered around here. Borah was a national powerhouse in the 1960s and 1970s under him and his equally good sucessor (and friend) De Pankratz. The Borah Lions (Green Weenies to the rest of us) were a veritable football machine until about 1981. They did lose to Gonzaga Prep in 1976 by a score of something like 6-5, but they did dominate the game statistically. The Lions fumbled the ball like 5 times and had a future Boise State, CFL, and NFL running back injured early in the game (Cedric Minter). In those days and through the early 1980s, it was not unsual for crowds of 15,000 to pack into Bronco Stadium to see the Boise and Meridian High Schools play football games. Anyways, Boise's football love certainly goes back at least that far, and I've heard from some real old timers that Boise High School had great football before Borah was built in 1961.

BobZag
06-08-2007, 09:57 AM
Wow, didn't realize. When all the additions and renovations are made will Bronco Stadium be, what, 60,000? Or more?

I think K2 can expand to 7000, perhaps more... I just wonder if there could be a section for General Admission. Fans could put their names in a big raffle or lottery type drawing. That way, eventually, most all fans would get in and see a game in person.

I also was told the Spokane Arena was made to expand to 15,000 and then to 20,000 after that. Don't ask how, a Garco architect would know.

What Gonzaga needs, too, is a deep tourney run in March. Final Four. Boise broke through with a BCS bowl (Fiesta) and played a game that will never be forgotten. Zags need something similar.

jbslicer
06-08-2007, 10:22 AM
Where you they put 'em?
I don't see the Spokane Arena adding more seats. I don't think there would be a need.

roxdoc
06-08-2007, 10:42 AM
The upper level on one end of the Spokane Arena is a blank slope. It is my understanding that there would be room for about 2000 more seats up there which would take it to about 14,000 for basketball.

roxdoc
06-08-2007, 10:50 AM
Forgot to say that there were nearly 12,000 at arena for Memphis game last year. Get some high level teams in and the fans will turn out. Also the crowd was every bit as loud as any Kennel crowd that I have heard - it was pretty incredible.

BobZag
06-08-2007, 10:58 AM
A little trivia--

Dwayne Alton (the tire guy) wanted the Spokane Arena to be about 7000 seats. He could not understand how Spokane could fill anything larger. lol.

Angelo Roncalli
06-08-2007, 11:28 AM
I have a copy of the architect's plans for possible expansion of the arena--it was designed from the beginning for an expansion of about 2200 seats, all in the upper level. There is no possibility of expansion to 20,000--the footprint of the building isn't large enough.

roxdoc
06-08-2007, 11:53 AM
It easy to second guess the powers that be for the Kennel size. Its a wonderful facility. I have talked casually with both Mike Roth and the contractor and it was really a matter of $. Knowing what we know now and seeing what the tarrif is if you wanted to buy (donation pledge) a season ticket for next year maybe it could have gone a little bigger. Too bad they didn't leave some expansion room though, but that is second guessing.

gamagin
06-08-2007, 12:26 PM
on several levels.

But a simple answer would start with the fact that Boise was fortunate enough or smart enough to have several Fortune 200 companies either formed or moved there during the past 30-40 years.

this happened while BSU's hated arch-rival, U. of Idaho, which used to dominate BSU, has probably lost or merely held its population over that same timeframe, but little else.

UI's programs, once ranked as high as any GU's ever had, with stars in their day as well known as Stockton (Jerry Kramer -- there are many more).

Moscow certainly has no corporate headquarters or prosperity driven growth that would equal Boise's incredible run, which is nationally recognized. I can't think of one.

to name just a few in boise, there are Simplot, Boise Cascade, albertson's, Micron, a host of big timber operations, engineering and many others I can't remember.

Spokane, by comparison, has no National or world headquarters that would compare with any one of the above in Boise, as far as I know. Our biggest payroll comes from healthcare, I believe, followed by tourism -- neither of them particularly famous for high paying jobs and all that implies.

Boise State is also in the Gem State's capitol, so the money is dispensed from there and it has the undivided attention of the entire state, and all of its movers and shakers, for many months per year.

Add the pent up demand to have entertainment, and sports, and the fact that there is little or no additonal pressure for boise state's attention adds up to an incredibly good opportunity and access to fortunes such as I haven't seen in a long while. It's a virtual monopoly.

Contrast that to Spokane, the divided loyalties between WSU, UW, Idaho, eastern, whitworth and gonzaga, and there is genuine competition for sports dollars, advertising and focus as well.

If I were to guess, I would say (from the signs in K2) that one of, if not THE, top advertisers at GU also is a top sponsor of nearly all of the above Spokane area sports teams: Northern Quest Casino. the Coeur d'alene casino is likely in there, too.

Most of Gu's other major sponsors are mostly local, albeit successful and relatively wealthy companies. But none on a scale like that available and eager to be a part of the program like Boise State's pool of deep pockets.

However, if you take the global reach of GU bkb versus Boise State fb, I would say it is the opposite: it is GU hands down.

Boise State reached GU's status in one game, the fiesta bowl -- an instant and perhaps historic classic that will live on forever.

Gonzaga over the past ten years has had many.

I've seen them on espn classics in several different countries over the years. they are not only wonderful to see, but it's also great to realize that the GU story, many of its players and fan base lives and is even growing in places beyond our imaginations.

Finally, I agree with BobZag's assessment that bkb has surpassed fb in interest. I say it's mostly so in spokane due to John Stockton & hoopfest. Sort of like what Bloomsday & don kardong did for running.

GU is now a national basketball phenom, WSU is an emerging bkb power and the two teams who used to get that attention, WSU and UW football, along with UW bkb, are having great difficulties.

But all of those things could change and the dynamics and the interest level of this divided Spokane area could be sliced up even further, again, sometime.

In boise, meantime, growth, prosperity and BSU are the only games in town or anywhere near or around that same town, for that matter.

Birddog
06-08-2007, 06:44 PM
This got my curiosity up. I've been touting Boise as a place to live for several years now, mostly because of it's high desert close to mtns location. Boise is a day's drive from SF, Portland, Spokane, Seattle and SLC. Vancouver BC isn't really out of reach. I've likened Boise to Albq in terms of climate and growth, but I was mildly surprised to see that it had caught up to Albq this much.

OKC and Albq are virtually tied at 45th in TV Market size at 662,000. OKC is way ahead on population though, with 1,173,000 (47th) to Albq's 817,000 (61st) Boise is at 568,000 (87th) and Spokane is 446,000 (107th). Spokane and Boise flip in TV Market rank with Spokane at 77 and Boise at 118. No numbers were given except for OKC and Albq because they were tied. Awhile back, Abe said that Spokaloo now had 1 million people within 70 miles of Sprague and Division (or something like that).

Birddog

roxdoc
06-08-2007, 08:45 PM
Birddog, the Boise population you give is certainly not Boise itself. It includes a whole host of smaller cities that surround Boise. The Spokane number you give sounds like Spokane County to me. If you want to treat it the same as Boise you better add in Kootenai Co., Idaho (Coeur d'Alene) which would add another 150,000 to Spokane's total.

Birddog
06-09-2007, 03:03 AM
[QUOTE]Birddog, the Boise population you give is certainly not Boise itself.[/QUOTE You're right, I failed to point out that those are GMSAs. Actual populations don't count for much these days.

Birddog

zagco
06-09-2007, 07:10 AM
Recently, the US Census Bureau released figures on the 2006 populations for counties. The Boise metropolitan area, which includes Ada and Canyon Counties, along with continnguous but insignificant counties Gem, Payette, Boise, Elmore, and Owyhee, was just over 600,000 people.


On July 1, 2006, Ada County had 359,035 people. Canyon County had 173,302. Elmore County had 28,114. Gem County had 16,558. Boise County had 7,641. Payette County had 7,914. Owyhee County had 11,104. Together, that makes 603,668. Ada and Canyon together are well over half a million people.



http://www.census.gov/popest/counties/tables/CO-EST2006-01-16.xls

Looking back to 2000, Ada had 300,904 people and Canyon had 131,441 people, a total of 432,345 people. Those two counties have, therefore, added 99,992 people this decade, 23% growth.

Ada and Canyon County are small, geographically, smaller than the entirety of Spokane County. The Boise area has a much more compact population than Spokane. The growth is just stunning.

Spokane and Kootenai Counties have slightly more people, and I believe the Spokane television market is considered to stretch from well into central Washington and over into Montana.

BobZag
06-09-2007, 09:22 AM
Elmore County insignificant? Blashphemy, I say! :)

Recreationally, it's about even too. Spokane has the river, and about 50 lakes in about an hour radius for fishing, skiing, boating, etc. In winter, there's many ski resorts fairly close--Schweitzer, Silver Horn, 49 degrees north, Mt. Spokane...and some great Canadian resorts are two or three hours away.

Boise has a river, and Lucky Peak, Arrowhead, Anderson Ranch, CJ Strike, all dams. McCall and Payette Lake aren't too far. Bogus Basin is nearby for skiing, and Sun Valley isn't too far. Zagco can name a lot more. The last time I went to Sun Valley, Peggy Fleming was in her prime and was practicing on the big ice rink there.

Overall, Boise's winters are milder than Spokane's. I do remember summer days of 115 degrees down there, though.

zagco
06-09-2007, 10:45 AM
The water around Boise pales in comparison to that around Spokane. Lucky Peak is WAAAAAAAY too small for our population. Anderson Ranch and Arrowrock (Lucky Peak too) are for farmers, not recreation. Thus, they are rarely full because they supply all the irrigation water. The recreational value is limited pretty limited, although Lucky Peak in good water years can be mostly full for the summer. There are no cabins, only campsights and some boatramps. Cascade 60 miles north is also a reservoir. Shallow, warm, and polluted. Payette Lake 90 miles north in McCall is small in comparison to the northern lakes. It is also essentially a private lake, with very limited and impractical public access. It's surrounded by cabins and mansions that violate hundreds of environmental laws. Boise is almost always sunny. It's a dry climate, and it can get Vegas-like hot in the summer. Winters are much milder, drier, and brighter than Spokane winters. The Boise River is great, though, and it has a nice greenbelt with paved bike trails on both sides. It is getting closer to being fully connected from Lucky Peak to Caldwell. The Boise River is a more user-friendly river than the Spokane River.

The hills around Boise and in the Owyhee desert and mountains towards the Snake River offer PRIME biking. Mountain biking is huge around here. Road biking is as well. From downtown Boise, you can be in the foothills on single track in 10 minutes. The trails go all the way to the top of mountain, to the ski resort about Boise.

There are two good Gonzaga bars that show lots of games in Boise. Downtown, you have the Falcoln Tavern, which oddly is owned by a Portland Pilot. So, he doesn't exactly mind when we lose, but he at least shows the games. A group of Gonzaga fans got together for a game or two there last year. Also, the Ha'Penney Pub has been pretty good about showing Gonzaga and Montana games for some time. It's a higher end bar, but has some pretty good food (prime rib bites for appetizers that are to die for) and a killer HUGE digital HDTV. Very Irish, but they don't seem to mind Norwegians either.

gamagin
06-09-2007, 11:09 AM
very interesting place . . .

Symi81
06-09-2007, 11:58 AM
The data is a bit dated (2000) but interesting nonetheless. My understanding is most of Boise's population growth is of the sprawling variety. Yuck. more on this later....

http://barney.gonzaga.edu/~psymingt/boispok.bmp

Link sources:
Boisehttp://www.sightline.org/maps/animated_maps/sprawl_boise_04anim
Spokanehttp://securebar.secure-tunnel.com/cgi-bin/nph-freebar.cgi/110110A/http/www.sightline.org/maps/animated_maps/sprawl_spok_04anim

zagco
06-09-2007, 12:33 PM
That map is wildly inaccurate. The 1-5 people per acre would easily apply to the entire upper left side of the Boise map, and possibly to the entire left side. Once you leave Boise going west through Meridian, it's viritually all developed now.

There is clearly sprawl. No question. You cannot continue to add people, yet keep growing at the same or higher rates without sprawl by any subjective standard. Property values in the city of Boise are getting high. Middle class people can build practically twice the home for half the price if they move out towards Meridian and Nampa. The downside is that the freeway commute into and out of Boise during rush hour is literally jammed to a stop the entire way. It's like that for about 90 minutes twice per day.

Growth around here is like compound interest.

MDABE80
06-09-2007, 01:22 PM
GARCO is constructing a building for me and I talked to Ginge a few weeks ago about how the Arena and K2 could be expanded. Also, a few other items of interest have come up in this thread.

1. K2 could add appox 1500 to 1800 seats ( they'l be expensive seats though)
2. Arena could add to about 14.3K to 14.8K seats.
3. 75 lakes within 75 miles of the city center of Spokane. NB thought the epicenter of Spokane used to be Riverside and Division but the fellas now say it's up near Francis and Division nowadays.
4 County Health Stats say there's 1.2 million folks within 90 miles of Spokane. This obviously includes all N Idaho too as well as the CDA population I dunno if the figure is correct since the more people noted, the more money is supposed to show up for health programs. The population is close to 1 million though.
5. Boise is SO much busier that Spokane in terms of growth. Every sector is exploding. Where they get the money and community spirit is unkown to Abe. Lots more dedication to growth down there than in Spokane though.

This is what I know. But, more importantly, has anyone seen Ira jump yet? I hear it's like a mountain lifting off:) Go Zags!!!......."if you build it, they will come":) OH and "FREE PARIS"!!! .......not~! :lmao: :confused:

kjstoph1
06-09-2007, 06:45 PM
The recognition for BSU is recent, the fan fervor by Boiseans for the "hometown team" something going all the way back to BJC days.


You misspelled 'myopia'.

Symi81
06-10-2007, 06:52 AM
The Northwest's compact growth leaders are both Canadian. not coincidently, they are two of the nicest cities anywhere.

http://barney.gonzaga.edu/~psymingt/vicvan.bmp

Symi81
06-10-2007, 06:53 AM
Not as good as the Canadians.
http://barney.gonzaga.edu/~psymingt/seapdx.bmp

gamagin
06-10-2007, 09:20 AM
in the U.S. we have a tendancy to spread out whereas in Europe, probably due to the fact that most of it was under seige for centuries, tended to build high density, walled environments to live in. With moats to discourage walk ins where feasible. And hot tar and catapults to discourage party crashers.

We more civilized folks prefer our gated communities, sans moats but w/multiple psychological barriers.

So looking at those maps shows to me we still prefer spreading out versus the Euro influence of the Canadian cities.

the water, however, is still the big attractant, along with high density, great parks for open spaces and generally well thought out environments and common areas and shared costs.

I like a smattering of both at different times, but find high density all the time, like NYC or even San Fran, at times, choking.

With the movement to downtown in Spokane apparently in full swing, there appears to be a shifting by some back to our (mostly) European roots.

My guess is the condo owners will keep their lake cabins, though, and maybe join one of those garage clubhouse storage facility thingies where you can pretend like you can still hang out in an alley, drink beer and work on your old hot rod on weekends or any other time you feel like it.

BobZag
06-10-2007, 10:34 AM
Vancouver is the most beautiful "big" city I've ever been to.

Not to change the topic but perhaps if Gonzaga had survived the UCLA game, the Zags would've beaten Memphis and made the Final Four. There could've likely been a game that rivaled BSU's Fiesta Bowl win. Imo, the Zags need that to get Spokane going crazy again. :)

MickMick
06-10-2007, 11:50 AM
Vancouver is the most beautiful "big" city I've ever been to.

Not to change the topic but perhaps if Gonzaga had survived the UCLA game, the Zags would've beaten Memphis and made the Final Four. There could've likely been a game that rivaled BSU's Fiesta Bowl win. Imo, the Zags need that to get Spokane going crazy again. :)

If you take this debate to a national level, the Zags have a very strong following. There are a heck of a lot more national TV broadcasts of Gonzaga basketball then of Boise State football.

There are events in college sports that are timeless. For example, the Doug Flutie "Hail Mary" to beat the Miami Hurricanes. The Boise State Fiesta Bowl win is in that category. If the Zag elite eight run was fresh in our collective minds, it would rank right with it. Another Gonzaga deep run would reinforce it.

jbslicer
06-10-2007, 12:09 PM
The elite eight was great but definately not "one for the ages." A Final Four would be.

MickMick
06-10-2007, 12:12 PM
The elite eight was great but definately not "one for the ages." A Final Four would be.

Yea..you are probably right. But look how much we still talk about that run.

zagco
06-10-2007, 01:42 PM
I believe Boise State currently has 5 games that will be seen nationally this year. That can change with ESPN--they've ended up showing more games than planned the past few years.

Similar to Gonzaga's and the WCC's unfortunate late night scheduling of weekday games on ESPN, Boise State has a pretty crappy schedule, including a Sunday night game, a Wednesday night game and a Thursday night game. Those are real tought games for kids and parents.

I think Gonzaga's collective body of work speaks for itself. We've been able to win a lot of high profile games, and we seem to have the respect of the experts. Boise State is not that far along in its journey. It's Fiesta Bowl win might be a higher quality and more memorable win than our Elite Eight run, but it's still only one game. Boise State will need a few more big wins before the College Football Mandarins will bless them.

I think there are a lot of similarities between the rise of the two programs, but I remain convinced that Gonzaga's distant travels and small home facility have frustrated and even somewhat alienated many fans who want to see them but cannot.

Symi81
06-10-2007, 05:28 PM
Don't mean to beat a dead horse with this topic, but there are two primary reasons Post-War America sprawls.

1. cars and freeways. until the post-war period America was very compact. The automobile and freeway changed that. For example, if you look at Spokane's oldest neighborhoods on the map above (downtown, west central, browns addition, logan) they are the densest in the Inland Empire. There are a mix of housing types, there are neighborhood businesses within easy walking distance - many locally owned, smaller roads, street trees, etc. The new areas are 100% car oriented (houses spread out, lack of neighborhood businesses, commercial office parks, supersized apartment complexes surrounded by a sea of parking, stip-malls, multi-lane roads with high speed limits, etc.)

2. an utter lack of widespread, proper urban planning after WW2 in this country.

Our friends in BC keep it compact because they believe in preserving farming, the natural environment, short commute times, efficient use of public utilities, roads and services. They know walkable communities provide a superior quality of life on several levels vs car-oriented "communities".

peace.

MickMick
06-10-2007, 05:38 PM
Don't mean to beat a dead horse with this topic, but there are two primary reasons Post-War America sprawls.

1. cars and freeways. until the post-war period America was very compact. The automobile and freeway changed that. For example, if you look at Spokane's oldest neighborhoods on the map above (downtown, west central, browns addition, logan) they are the densest in the Inland Empire. There are a mix of housing types, there are neighborhood businesses within easy walking distance - many locally owned, smaller roads, street trees, etc. The new areas are 100% car oriented (houses spread out, lack of neighborhood businesses, commercial office parks, supersized apartment complexes surrounded by a sea of parking, stip-malls, multi-lane roads with high speed limits, etc.)

2. an utter lack of widespread, proper urban planning after WW2 in this country.

Our friends in BC keep it compact because they believe in preserving farming, the natural environment, short commute times, efficient use of public utilities, roads and services. They know walkable communities provide a superior quality of life on several levels vs car-oriented "communities".

peace.

So with higher energy demand, I would expect an eventual movement back to denser city design.