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View Full Version : Sacre defending McConnell?



zagzilla
01-28-2011, 11:40 AM
Throughout last night's game Sacre was guarding MM or Della up top. Seems like an obvious mis-match favoring the guard to be able to drive past the bigger player. This was not just on the last play either.

It was usually on a switch but clearly SMC was trying to make the switch happen and exploit the situation.

Announcers mentioned a couple of times things like "Sacre guarding McConnell up top. Can he take advantage of the mis match?"

Now I am not a X's and O's basketball coach but it seems like having your center guarding a smaller faster player and perhaps the best PG in the WCC exposes us to:
Dribble penetration by MM
Foul risk for Sacre
Poor rebounding position
No interior defense

Anybody want to educate me on why that made sense?

ZZ

thespywhozaggedme
01-28-2011, 11:52 AM
Few has had Rob defending the perimeter the entire season. Bobby Knight openly criticized it on air in the beginning of the season. When I heard it, I was surprised that he would so blatantly call out another coaches defensive strategy, but Knight pulled no punches, saying that it made no sense to have Sacre out there, as he should be underneath the basket.

john montana
01-28-2011, 11:55 AM
Pretty tough to do anything other than switch when the refs are letting the high screener hammer the defender. I've never seen so many illegal screens in one game. That was really my major issue with the officiating last night. Those high screens, way out away from the ball were so effective for SMC, but were borderline muggings.

Personally, i thik we should have adjusted to it and trapped off the screen rather than hedge. The Hedge was turning into a switch which clearly wasn't working out wel for us.

FuManShoes
01-28-2011, 12:00 PM
Looks like pretty good D to me. What's a guy supposed to do? Anyway, it ended up that way because McConnell lost Stockton or Meech, leaving Rob to cover.

http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2011/01/28/mcconnellpic-winner_t470.jpg?84974f3f373deb0dda0f75a22ddd9b7d3a 332b26

Saxon_zag
01-28-2011, 12:15 PM
Looks like pretty good D to me. What's a guy supposed to do? Anyway, it ended up that way because McConnell lost Stockton or Meech, leaving Rob to cover.

http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2011/01/28/mcconnellpic-winner_t470.jpg?84974f3f373deb0dda0f75a22ddd9b7d3a 332b26

that lady in the bottom right knew... So did I, i was walking out of my living room when SMC inbounded the ball

zagzilla
01-28-2011, 12:19 PM
Agreed. On that play, RS did a good job to force a tough shot, but the bigger question is whether he's the guy you want at that spot on the floor to begin with?

I'd like to see him close to the basket getting rebounds and blocking shots and let the 1, 2, or 3 be responsible for perimeter defense.

I thought we were supposed to be loaded with guards that could defend which offset some limitations they had with scoring?

ZZ

bigparb
01-28-2011, 12:30 PM
zilla....this is an easy question to answer if one has been paying close attention to what Few and staff have said concerning Man 2 Man defensive philosophy over the years......

Few and co and always stated in interviews or on the radio that they believe is switching every screen if necessary.

This statement is backed up by Few's comments in Meehan's artilce today in the Spokesman-Review----Few said "We couldn't have guarded it any better"....and by Ray G's comments to Huddy on the post-game radio interview when he said (and I'm paraphrasing) "we defended that play exactly how we wanted to, we got the switch and one of our best defenders in Rob was right there"......

Now please dont' mis-interpret me here........I'm do not agree with this in the least.....I personally feel that we should have been having our big hedge hard (like they usually do) so that the guard could get back in to position to defend the other guard......and then even if Meech, for instance can completely cut off the penetration around the hedge, we should be demanding our wings "dig in" to stop penetration......this leaves the other team depending on their weakside 3 pt shooting to win the game-----I'd rather see St. Mary's live and die on 3 balls from Steindl and Rob Jones than see Develladova and McConnell toy with Sacre/Harris/Dower like the did last night.....

Unfortunately Few's defensive philosophy plays right into the type of game that St. Mary's wants to run this year......they just keep running pick/roll until they got the matchup that they wanted---and they knew it would eventually come, and then Mick and Dev took advantage......

I was sooooooo frustrated watching this "dance" play out on possession after possession for St. Mary's.........where was few demanding the hard hedge? where was few demanding weak side help? where was few gameplan? Don't tell me the game plan was for McConnell and Dev to eat up our bigs in one-on-one situations or to let them drive to the rim--with a guard on their hip and only face matador like defense from the weakside defender who's not rotating down all the way......I saw stockton and gray make good weakside rotations once or twice...but dang it, at this level everyone got to "get it" and doing these things all game long.....

but I digress.....

bigparb
01-28-2011, 12:35 PM
Anyway, it ended up that way because McConnell lost Stockton or Meech, leaving Rob to cover.

not true....he didn't shake anyone...he got another screen/switch....

Reborn
01-28-2011, 12:36 PM
The way most teams defend the pick and roll up high is that the Center (Sacre) hedges and FORCES the guard to reverse or slow down and not penetrate. The guard on defense catches up to his man,and the defending center (Sacre) hustles backs and catches up to his man. Why Few chooses to NOT DO what other very good coaches do on defense is baffling. We all know Few is not a good defensive coach, so why does he refuse to do what everyone else does. To me it was clear on the winning play for St. Mary's at the end that Meech was not going to guard McConnell and that Sacre was. You can call it a circus shot if you want, and you can call in good defense if you want. The fact remains that it was not good defense, and it cost us the game. A good defensive center can not guard a great offensive scoring guard.

Few's defensive strategy is the worst I have ever seen. I do not know a single team who switches every screen. This always puts our center, power forward on guards and our point guards on centers. Teams are abusing Gonzaga on defense. There is a reason the Zags are so bad on defense. The whole defensive strategy is poor. I agree totally with Bob Knight.

cjm720
01-28-2011, 12:54 PM
McConnell beat Meech, outmuscled him really. McConnell is very good. Sacre helped out, and defended as well as possible without fouling. McConnel made the shot. McConell is very very good.

bigparb
01-28-2011, 01:00 PM
McConnell beat Meech, outmuscled him really.

again...not true....he didn't shake anyone...he got another screen/switch....

Hoopaholic
01-28-2011, 01:00 PM
just got done charting the game and I disagree.

EVERY time the defensive philosophy was executed as it was designed, SMC was throwing up wild shots (mcConnell in particular) or not getting a good look off...to include the last shot

When SMC burnt us was when we failed to properly execute the defensive philosophy (MM going under screen and McConnell hitting three), Sacre, Harris or Dower not stepping up to defend off the screen and SMC hitting open shot.


You can disagree with the philosophy but it clearly worked when executed as designed.


Problem with these two SMC guards is if you pick to HARD HEDGE you are going to end up in foul trouble (see SMC bigs picking up fouls doing just that against us). It was clear the intent was to keep the guards in front, make them shoot over the top of the long arms and for the most part it worked


may I point out that the first half when the defense was being executed perfectly that McConnel was only able to get off 4 shots TOTAL against Goodson in 14 minutes and 2 shots while Stockton guarding in 6 minutes.....goiong 3 for 6.......7 points for shooting

Second half was a different story as he got off 12 shots......coincidentally Goodson only played in 7 minutes second half

NEC26
01-28-2011, 02:45 PM
just got done charting the game and I disagree.

EVERY time the defensive philosophy was executed as it was designed, SMC was throwing up wild shots (mcConnell in particular) or not getting a good look off...to include the last shot

When SMC burnt us was when we failed to properly execute the defensive philosophy (MM going under screen and McConnell hitting three), Sacre, Harris or Dower not stepping up to defend off the screen and SMC hitting open shot.


You can disagree with the philosophy but it clearly worked when executed as designed.


Problem with these two SMC guards is if you pick to HARD HEDGE you are going to end up in foul trouble (see SMC bigs picking up fouls doing just that against us). It was clear the intent was to keep the guards in front, make them shoot over the top of the long arms and for the most part it worked


may I point out that the first half when the defense was being executed perfectly that McConnel was only able to get off 4 shots TOTAL against Goodson in 14 minutes and 2 shots while Stockton guarding in 6 minutes.....goiong 3 for 6.......7 points for shooting

Second half was a different story as he got off 12 shots......coincidentally Goodson only played in 7 minutes second half

Hoop was it also a coincidence that during that time Meech was out there the Zags were falling behind? It was another terrible second half start were our offense simply did not score. There was a reason Few took him out and left him out. His defense was NOT good and his offense well we all know that answer.

cjm720
01-28-2011, 02:59 PM
again...not true....he didn't shake anyone...he got another screen/switch....

Looked to me like McM bodied him and hooked w his right arm a bit,moved him out of the way to free himself before Sacre stepped up. Will take another look...

Hoopaholic
01-28-2011, 03:01 PM
hmm thought we were ahead the enitre first half when he played the majority of the minutes available and

correct me if wrong but

Think we lost the scoring battle second half when he sat on the bench majority of the time



hmmm someone posted that last couple games we have been held scoreless in last critical minutes of the game....how you going to blame that on Goodson while he sat on the bench?

Colbyspapa
01-28-2011, 03:09 PM
You cannot hard hedge with less than 4 seconds on the clock, post player with foul trouble and one of the best passers in college basketball with the ball. You hard hedge, then mcconnel passes the easy bounce pass to a lay in for the game winner. (there was no one behind Sacre as the floor was spread) If you go under the screen and don't switch, one of the best shooters in the country pops a 15 foot uncontested jumper for the win. Both Meech and Sacre played their defense correctly. McConnel hit a rediculously hard shot, off balance to win the game. The defense of that last play was correct.

The coaches agree. They do this for a living. I don't get paid to coach, in fact it cost me quite a bit.

Hoopaholic
01-28-2011, 03:14 PM
nice Colby..especially the line of "costing you to coach"...that is soooo true

NEC26
01-28-2011, 03:24 PM
hmm thought we were ahead the enitre first half when he played the majority of the minutes available and

correct me if wrong but

Think we lost the scoring battle second half when he sat on the bench majority of the time



hmmm someone posted that last couple games we have been held scoreless in last critical minutes of the game....how you going to blame that on Goodson while he sat on the bench?

Actually, we should have been tied if not for a bad charge call and no we weren't behind until Gray fouled out and Few subbed in Meech( in fact we we made our run to regain the lead with Dower and Stockton in there). I'm not blaming this loss on Meech by any stretch but you are trying to say he was playing well and that is certainly debatable.
Nor do I think its a good combo to have Meech, Stock, and Carter out there (which was the case at the end there) at the same time but it was just the situation we were in for whatever reason( be it Gray fouling out and/or Arop and Keita not playing).

Hoopaholic
01-28-2011, 03:51 PM
didnt imply that he played well entire game (played poorly in my opinion when he got back into the game at the 5 minute mark second half after sitting for more than 11 minutes-got yanked in less than 3 minutes) but will say he played well the first half and was yanked pretty quickly second half (charge call)

stated first half he played very well on defense and held on of SMC stud to very few opportunities let alone scores. Same player got far more shots off second half of which Goodson only played in 7 minutes.

As far as offense goes....I do believe Goodson had more assists, more rebounds and one measely point more than Stockton so not sure how much stockton played into "offense scheme" as you seem to suggest he did. During the run you talk about the assists came from others, Carter, Gray and simple creation by Dower

I also suggest that you rewatch the play at the 10 second mark that Stockton shot the 3...Sacre was WIDE Open on the roll and no pass to him, as well as MM open in corner as his man was hedging toward the paint and MM is a far better shooter than Stockton....so in crunch the good passing and court vision was clouded....granted first HUGE game in crunch time that he was playing in but still a mistake that may have created an opportunity for scorers to have the ball in their hand.

I still await your response to the fact that the last two games that Goodson has NOT been in charge during last 3 minutes of game that we have been held to NO baskets made by the team with Stockton running the show?

More playing time the last three games for DS and less playing time for Goodson has equated to 3 game losing streak...coincidence...possibly but it should be discussed

NEC26
01-28-2011, 03:57 PM
didnt imply that he played well entire game (played poorly in my opinion when he got back into the game at the 5 minute mark second half after sitting for more than 11 minutes-got yanked in less than 3 minutes) but will say he played well the first half and was yanked pretty quickly second half (charge call)

stated first half he played very well on defense and held on of SMC stud to very few opportunities let alone scores. Same player got far more shots off second half of which Goodson only played in 7 minutes.

As far as offense goes....I do believe Goodson had more assists, more rebounds and one measely point more than Stockton so not sure how much stockton played into "offense scheme" as you seem to suggest he did. During the run you talk about the assists came from others, Carter, Gray and simple creation by Dower

I also suggest that you rewatch the play at the 10 second mark that Stockton shot the 3...Sacre was WIDE Open on the roll and no pass to him, as well as MM open in corner as his man was hedging toward the paint and MM is a far better shooter than Stockton....so in crunch the good passing and court vision was clouded....granted first HUGE game in crunch time that he was playing in but still a mistake that may have created an opportunity for scorers to have the ball in their hand.

I still await your response to the fact that the last two games that Goodson has NOT been in charge during last 3 minutes of game that we have been held to NO baskets made by the team with Stockton running the show?

More playing time the last three games for DS and less playing time for Goodson has equated to 3 game losing streak...coincidence...possibly but it should be discussed
Wrong, Stockton got the assist on two of Dowers made baskets. Also Meech was running the show in the end of the USF game not Stockton and as I stated having MEECH and STOCKTON along with Carter would NEVER be a lineup I would want out there. The reason Stock has gotten more playing time? Because Few sees what just about everyone else sees out there besides you.You truly are making stuff up here on the go so I think I'll just leave it alone at this point.

Hoopaholic
01-28-2011, 04:35 PM
thought I was getting old so went back and checked on your statement

we were ahead when Goodson was removed from the game first half at the 11;23 mark

we made our biggest leads while Goodson on the court (8 to start the game and 7 toward end of first half when he was inserted back in,)

16 minute mark 2nd half, after Goodsons charging call we were down by 2 when Stockton took over (didnt leave the game until 2;42 mark) and we were down by 2 at that point.

The offense in the second half was run by Stockton for the great majority of the time. We scored less and gave up more during the second half.


Huh USF did we watch different game? Few was subbing Stockton for offense, Goodson for defense so not sure how you expected Goodson to be running the offense while on the bench

zagzilla
01-28-2011, 04:40 PM
thought I was getting old so went back and checked on your statement

we were ahead when Goodson was removed from the game first half at the 11;23 mark

we made our biggest leads while Goodson on the court (8 to start the game and 7 toward end of first half when he was inserted back in,)

16 minute mark 2nd half, after Goodsons charging call we were down by 2 when Stockton took over (didnt leave the game until 2;42 mark) and we were down by 2 at that point.

The offense in the second half was run by Stockton for the great majority of the time. We scored less and gave up more during the second half.


Huh USF did we watch different game? Few was subbing Stockton for offense, Goodson for defense so not sure how you expected Goodson to be running the offense while on the bench

ummmm.....why has this topic been hijacked into another boring Meech thread?

NEC26
01-28-2011, 04:48 PM
thought I was getting old so went back and checked on your statement

we were ahead when Goodson was removed from the game first half at the 11;23 mark

we made our biggest leads while Goodson on the court (8 to start the game and 7 toward end of first half when he was inserted back in,)

16 minute mark 2nd half, after Goodsons charging call we were down by 2 when Stockton took over (didnt leave the game until 2;42 mark) and we were down by 2 at that point.

The offense in the second half was run by Stockton for the great majority of the time. We scored less and gave up more during the second half.


Huh USF did we watch different game? Few was subbing Stockton for offense, Goodson for defense so not sure how you expected Goodson to be running the offense while on the bench
Wow I know I should just let it go but I mean c'mon man. You take the whole of the second half to make a statement about Stocktons play without accounting for the fact that our two point lead(which as I stated by all rights should have been no lead as it was a terrible charge call) had been given away when MEECH was running the show as in he was -7 for the half so far. Stock came in and we REGAINED the lead. He played for most of the half till Gray fouled out( at which point we were AHEAD by one). In comes Meech, and we now have Stock, Meech, and Carter in. Thats not a lineup me or anyone else on this board wants( I believe I can safely say this).
In most cases I would take Stock over Meech(not if we needed a defensive stop) but NEVER would I want all three of those guards in at the same time.

As far as the USF game who was running the point in over time? How many points did we score in over time? How many made baskets did we have in over time? Answers we made 5 points and had one basket in 5 minutes of play. Not good.
By the way I remember Stockton making some huge plays down the stretch in that USF game. Great feed to Harris a couple HUGE shots made( and yes Meech had an outstanding first half and hit a HUGE shot as well)

Das Zagger
01-28-2011, 05:17 PM
Looks like pretty good D to me. What's a guy supposed to do? Anyway, it ended up that way because McConnell lost Stockton or Meech, leaving Rob to cover.

http://media.spokesman.com/photos/2011/01/28/mcconnellpic-winner_t470.jpg?84974f3f373deb0dda0f75a22ddd9b7d3a 332b26

The bottom half of this picture is much more amazing than the portion shown here.