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View Full Version : At what point do we get to question Few's moves without getting crucified?



thespywhozaggedme
01-27-2011, 09:57 PM
I have some thoughts, cogent ones, that I want to get off of my chest, but despite being on all three incarnations of this board for 9 years, I am afraid to do so for fear of persecution. As of now, I will say that no coach in the entire country has ever been more protected and coddled than Few.

thickman1
01-27-2011, 09:59 PM
I have some thoughts, cogent ones, that I want to get off of my chest, but despite being on all three incarnations of this board for 9 years, I am afraid to do so for fear of persecution. As of now, I will say that no coach in the entire country has ever been more protected and coddled than Few.

Fire away! I'm with you...

Nevtelen
01-27-2011, 10:00 PM
I have some thoughts, cogent ones, that I want to get off of my chest, but despite being on all three incarnations of this board for 9 years, I am afraid to do so for fear of persecution. As of now, I will say that no coach in the entire country has ever been more protected and coddled than Few.

When you can bear to go off on only one thread instead of 3 + about basically the same topic...

xjzico
01-27-2011, 10:06 PM
How Few handles this team now that things are out of reach is the point of intrigue for me. Some criticism is due but don't think we need to get hysterical.

Now if he loses the team, that's another story.

CB4
01-27-2011, 10:12 PM
http://www.cartoonstock.com/lowres/vsh0914l.jpg

Spike94
01-27-2011, 10:15 PM
Just one question. Why was Dower sitting at the end? He by far was our best player in the 2nd half. This is an actual question. Maybe there was a good reason that my very pedestrian basketball mind does not understand.

GUDan07
01-27-2011, 10:19 PM
I have some thoughts, cogent ones, that I want to get off of my chest, but despite being on all three incarnations of this board for 9 years, I am afraid to do so for fear of persecution. As of now, I will say that no coach in the entire country has ever been more protected and coddled than Few.

I don't understand the fear of retaliation in an anonymous message board. What can anyone do to you? I thought the whole point of this was to discuss the team and last time I check, the coach is a pretty important part of the team.

thespywhozaggedme
01-27-2011, 10:21 PM
Just one question. Why was Dower sitting at the end? He by far was our best player in the 2nd half. This is an actual question. Maybe there was a good reason that my very pedestrian basketball mind does not understand.

Ding, ding, ding, ding. We have a winner. That's one of the main criticisms that I have, but I've gotten much better at holding my tongue, er, keyboard. Suffice it to say, that I am fuming at some of the decisions and lack of decisions made tonight.

hooter73
01-27-2011, 10:26 PM
Ive said it before and gotten crucified for it but I'll say it again; Few is very good in a low to mid conference team. He cant get over the door step from there. Amazing conference record, amazing NCAA APPEARANCE record, but all his teams can do is make an appearance. Cant get over the hump. It is what it is - well actually it was what it was. BYU changes all. No way Few would or should leave what he has built but some believe that if he was going to he should have left when his stock was still high 4 years ago, its not so high anymore.

EngineerZag
01-28-2011, 09:08 AM
From Jim Meehan, this quote says it all:


If there's a difference between these two teams, it's that. It's been a while since the Zags had a ridiculous game from anyone, even their redoubtable big three.
And a longer while since they've had to look from such an obscured vantage point in the WCC.
"I'm not used to it either," coach Mark Few said. "But you just have to keep doing the same things you've always done. If anything, it should give people pause to see how special it has been."

hooter73
01-28-2011, 09:14 AM
From Jim Meehan, this quote says it all:

whats the definition of insanity again?

problem is that they arent doing the same stuff. Few's teams used to be masters of scoring on a set out of bounds play or full court press disruptions. You just havent seen much of the old Few style.

77Zag
01-28-2011, 09:30 AM
Come on now, let's get a grip.
When the team losses; it's the coaches fault. When the team wins the players did an exceptional job. This is an old adage.

The refs - a factor
The players - a factor
The coaching - a factor
Players being disciplined (at least we think) - a factor

For example - Steve is a very good player, but -- knowing he has 4 fouls, he continues to go inside and risk #5? He also sat behind the defender when Harris had the ball and was stripped. If he would have moved, Harris had a target.
Sorry if I offended or critical of Steve, hope I don't catch the wrath from the Steve fans

So, do we blame Few? I guess so.

If you have issues, this board is for discussion, so bring them forward.

I for one will not chastise anyone for comments that are fair.

Go Zags!

sittingon50
01-28-2011, 09:48 AM
as a History Major, those are words that I have a real hard time understanding being used on a college basketball message board.

jazzdelmar
01-28-2011, 09:49 AM
But you just have to keep doing the same things you've always done. If anything, it should give people pause to see how special it has been."



and so the spin begins....every coach is a master at it....and, spy, to answer your question: NEVER! but i do recognize you properly used the word "crucify" w respect to how some here view few the 4th person.....

BobZag
01-28-2011, 10:16 AM
Do you prefer hanging, burning at the stake or a stoning? :)

jazzdelmar
01-28-2011, 10:20 AM
Do you prefer hanging, burning at the stake or a stoning? :)



how about accountability, scrutiny and reportorial integrity? what a mitzvah just one of those would be....

pargo4prez
01-28-2011, 10:21 AM
Mark Few is an AMAZING coach. He could coach at any level and I for one am seriously getting tired of hearing all of the negative comments about him. At the end of a close game like this you go for experience.

thespywhozaggedme
01-28-2011, 10:22 AM
Do you prefer hanging, burning at the stake or a stoning? :)

Well, I've already had one thread deleted by an ego driven, self absorbed mod, so do all of the above, but don't forget to tar and feather me first. :) Let's just put it this way, Few has made some very odd, strike that, peculiar, decisions over the course of the past few seasons (pun intended) but he has brought such notoriety to the team and the school that he's virtually immune to criticism (rightfully so, I might add), but his substitution patterns were really tough to swallow last night and I'm not even talking about the obvious disciplinary suspensions of Keita and Manny last night, which I fully support. Few is a man of integrity, but right now, he looks defeated.

BobZag
01-28-2011, 10:24 AM
how about accountability, scrutiny and reportorial integrity? what a mitzvah just one of those would be....

Nah.

gozagswoohoo
01-28-2011, 10:24 AM
Well, I've already had one thread deleted by an ego driven, self absorbed mod, so do all of the above, but don't forget to tar and feather me first. :) Let's just put it this way, Few has made some very odd, strike that, peculiar, decisions over the course of the past few seasons (pun intended) but he has brought such notoriety to the team and the school that he's virtually immune to criticism (rightfully so, I might add), but his substitution patterns were really tough to swallow last night and I'm not even talking about the obvious disciplinary suspensions of Keita and Manny last night, which I fully support. Few is a man of integrity, but right now, he looks defeated.

....really? I don't delete many threads at all. I hate deleting threads. And when I DO delete threads, I rarely give anyone an explanation. But with yours, I deleted your thread and sent you a PM to apologize and explain why I felt that way.

Pretty harsh spy.

thespywhozaggedme
01-28-2011, 10:26 AM
Mark Few is an AMAZING coach. He could coach at any level and I for one am seriously getting tired of hearing all of the negative comments about him. At the end of a close game like this you go for experience.

Negative comments, are you kidding me? You just joined and have 5 posts to your name. I've been here for 9 years on all three versions of this board, and Few gets less criticism than any coach in cbb, guaranteed. And I support the lack of criticism, as I agree that he is a stellar coach, but right now, he looks bewildered and befuddled and he has made some choices; from recruits to substitution patterns, to defensive, or lack there of coaching, that are worthy of some criticism. This is a message board and we should have the right to kick around various ideas (with civility, of course) without fear of reprisal.

jazzdelmar
01-28-2011, 10:27 AM
Nah.



gotcha Beezer, it figures.....

cjm720
01-28-2011, 10:27 AM
....but his substitution patterns were really tough to swallow last night and I'm not even talking about the obvious disciplinary suspensions of Keita and Manny last night, which I fully support. Few is a man of integrity, but right now, he looks defeated.

What are you talking about? Has something official been posted or is this conjecture?????????????????

DixieZag
01-28-2011, 10:31 AM
I think it is entirely appropriate to question the coaching moves done in a game and even the level of recruiting. It is inappropriate to throw gas on the fire in a chicken little manner and question his dedication, his conviction, love of his players and what the man has done for the university.

GU has been setback as a product of its success, Few not only lost two good friends to head coaching jobs, but two damn fine coaches, coaches that knew the program in and out and could add precious insight during games and practice. So, Few has done what he could, added Daniels - by all accounts a great move - and had a setback at essentially one position.

The last time a player went off??? EASY question, Steven Gray - SDSU 35 points and the ONE reason we were in a position to at least threaten to win. But, as we have seen, it is pretty easy to shut down a SG when there is little threat from other positions.

Coach Few made some absolutely mind - boggling moves last night - then again, two of Steven's fouls looked to be with the intention of giving him fouls and were mind boggling - had McConnell been called with the elbow charge travel two step and not been gifted the "and one" - the mojo goes the other way and the last 2:30 play out entirely differently. IMHO.

What Coach Few lacks is one thing needed in the WCC - a three point assassin - cannot win the WCC with a team made for the Big 12. And it seems like he realizes this and hopefully help is on the way.

We can be critical, but lets keep in mind that the success on this 10 year ride did not come from magic dust.

coolhandzag
01-28-2011, 10:32 AM
Got a beef with Few? Let it fly.

Some posters think Mark Few has earned the privilege of immunity to criticism.

He's a man plan and simple, and he's no more above criticism than me or anyone else.

pargo4prez
01-28-2011, 10:35 AM
Negative comments, are you kidding me? You just joined and have 5 posts to your name. I've been here for 9 years on all three versions of this board, and Few gets less criticism than any coach in cbb, guaranteed. And I support the lack of criticism, as I agree that he is a stellar coach, but right now, he looks bewildered and befuddled and he has made some choices; from recruits to substitution patterns, to defensive, or lack there of coaching, that are worthy of some criticism. This is a message board and we should have the right to kick around various ideas (with civility, of course) without fear of reprisal.

I've been following the GU board for years, but I just recently joined. And I am referring to the Mark Few criticism as of late. For the past couple of weeks after a game there has been at least one post about how Mark Few makes bad decisions...

thespywhozaggedme
01-28-2011, 10:38 AM
What are you talking about? Has something official been posted or is this conjecture????????????????? As I stated and bolded and highlighted in the thread that woohoo deleted, it is pure speculation on my part, but let's put 2 and 2 together, shall we: On of our greatest assets is that we go 11 deep and on any given night a different player will step up, one game it's Manny, the next it's Keita, the next Kelly, the next David, the next Sammy D, so on and so forth. In our biggest game of the season, when our depth is a necessity and a must, neither Keita, nor Manny, two of our best subs (or starters, depending on Few's whim that day) off the bench don't play for one minute. At first I was befuddled, but when I saw Meech, Marquise and Stockton on the court at the same time in cruch time, I knew that something had gone down. I don't even care what it was, it's none of my business, I just hope that the lesson was learned. Few is a man of integrity and he's not gonna cut off his nose to spite his face. Again, just to make sure it is clear to everyone: the above comments were pure speculation on my part, I have no insider info, just 9 years of posting here.
Go Zags!

gamagin
01-28-2011, 10:40 AM
I think it is entirely appropriate to question the coaching moves done in a game and even the level of recruiting. It is inappropriate to throw gas on the fire in a chicken little manner and question his dedication, his conviction, love of his players and what the man has done for the university.

GU has been setback as a product of its success, Few not only lost two good friends to head coaching jobs, but two damn fine coaches, coaches that knew the program in and out and could add precious insight during games and practice. So, Few has done what he could, added Daniels - by all accounts a great move - and had a setback at essentially one position.

The last time a player went off??? EASY question, Steven Gray - SDSU 35 points and the ONE reason we were in a position to at least threaten to win. But, as we have seen, it is pretty easy to shut down a SG when there is little threat from other positions.

Coach Few made some absolutely mind - boggling moves last night - then again, two of Steven's fouls looked to be with the intention of giving him fouls and were mind boggling - had McConnell been called with the elbow charge travel two step and not been gifted the "and one" - the mojo goes the other way and the last 2:30 play out entirely differently. IMHO.

What Coach Few lacks is one thing needed in the WCC - a three point assassin - cannot win the WCC with a team made for the Big 12. And it seems like he realizes this and hopefully help is on the way.

We can be critical, but lets keep in mind that the success on this 10 year ride did not come from magic dust.

Well said.

thespywhozaggedme
01-28-2011, 10:40 AM
I've been following the GU board for years, but I just recently joined. And I am referring to the Mark Few criticism as of late. For the past couple of weeks after a game there has been at least one post about how Mark Few makes bad decisions...

And that's okay. This is a message board and healthy and robust debate are a good thing, as long as it is civil. Few is not above reproach, he is human and does make mistakes, sadly due to this years team, said mistakes are more glaring than in previous years. Wanna see something crazy? Go to any Michigan State board and see the criticism of Izzo, fans are becoming apoplectic and he has had much more success than Few has.

john montana
01-28-2011, 10:42 AM
I just want to know why Arop and Keita were sitting. I get Dower (as well as he played, who would you have out there, dower or sacre and against SMC...you just can't play them both.) For the life of me I don't get the donut hole for Arop/Keita in that game. You play those two instead of carter/goodson/hoff and I think you add at least a couple of points in our favor (not saying you win the game, but it certainly plays out differently).

Might have been impossible with any lineup because McConnell simply torched us.

TexasZagFan
01-28-2011, 10:46 AM
Do you prefer hanging, burning at the stake or a stoning? :)

I'm a BIG fan of drawing and quartering...

gozagswoohoo
01-28-2011, 10:47 AM
As I stated and bolded and highlighted in the thread that woohoo deleted, it is pure speculation on my part, but let's put 2 and 2 together, shall we: On of our greatest assets is that we go 11 deep and on any given night a different player will step up, one game it's Manny, the next it's Keita, the next Kelly, the next David, the next Sammy D, so on and so forth. In our biggest game of the season, when our depth is a necessity and a must, neither Keita, nor Manny, two of our best subs (or starters, depending on Few's whim that day) off the bench don't play for one minute. At first I was befuddled, but when I saw Meech, Marquise and Stockton on the court at the same time in cruch time, I knew that something had gone down. I don't even care what it was, it's none of my business, I just hope that the lesson was learned. Few is a man of integrity and he's not gonna cut off his nose to spite his face. Again, just to make sure it is clear to everyone: the above comments were pure speculation on my part, I have no insider info, just 9 years of posting here.
Go Zags!



Well, since you've felt the need to call me out twice now, without responding to my last post about you possibly being a tad harsh.....I'll explain again since you obviously haven't comprehended it the first go round (or are choosing to ignore?). Oh, and let me throw this out, I've been here just as long as you. But anyways, yes, there COULD be some sort of suspension, sure. But guess what? It could also be that they are both suspects in a recent string of murders just outside Seattle. Could be? Who knows? They could also be struggling big time in class, and coach decided to bench them for grades. Could be? Who knows! It could be 100 different reasons. But the way you worded your thread made it sound like there WAS in fact a suspension. Of the 6 or 7 responses it already had, 2 of them were asking how you know of the suspension, how you found out, etc. That was going nowhere, and would have only fueled rumors and pages of posts speculating what kind of suspension it may be. Another reason I deleted it was that there is already a thread open about the specific thing you are talking about; their lack of playing time! So, I deleted yours. AND send you a PM to apologize and explain why, and tell you it was nothing personal. Like I said, I've been here as long as you spy, and you say you're disappointed in me...?? Well I'm quite surprised at you too for the harsh comments to me. Give me a break, you would think I deleted your thread and then did a "Woohoo is awesome" dance afterwards because I was proud of myself...

thespywhozaggedme
01-28-2011, 10:48 AM
I think it is entirely appropriate to question the coaching moves done in a game and even the level of recruiting. It is inappropriate to throw gas on the fire in a chicken little manner and question his dedication, his conviction, love of his players and what the man has done for the university.

GU has been setback as a product of its success, Few not only lost two good friends to head coaching jobs, but two damn fine coaches, coaches that knew the program in and out and could add precious insight during games and practice. So, Few has done what he could, added Daniels - by all accounts a great move - and had a setback at essentially one position.

The last time a player went off??? EASY question, Steven Gray - SDSU 35 points and the ONE reason we were in a position to at least threaten to win. But, as we have seen, it is pretty easy to shut down a SG when there is little threat from other positions.

Coach Few made some absolutely mind - boggling moves last night - then again, two of Steven's fouls looked to be with the intention of giving him fouls and were mind boggling - had McConnell been called with the elbow charge travel two step and not been gifted the "and one" - the mojo goes the other way and the last 2:30 play out entirely differently. IMHO.

What Coach Few lacks is one thing needed in the WCC - a three point assassin - cannot win the WCC with a team made for the Big 12. And it seems like he realizes this and hopefully help is on the way.

We can be critical, but lets keep in mind that the success on this 10 year ride did not come from magic dust.


Uh....great post, but one major glaring error. Mathis is tied for 9th in the entire country in 3 point shooting @ 50%, he is the very definition of a "three point assassin."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points

Reborn
01-28-2011, 10:48 AM
From Jim Meehan, this quote says it all:

I think Mark Few's quote misses the mark of what's going on. Anyone knows that we can't live off of what we did yesterday. In athletics there is no time but today. And, imo in life too. If Few needs to reach out to the past in order for him to feel good, then, imo, he's sinking in the present. His statement here indicates to me that he is not confident in this team.

I think the coaching staff has done just about as well as can be expected with this group of guys, imo. The biggest mistake this staff has made has been in recruiting. Meech is not who they thought he was, nor Carter or Arop, imo. Nor was Bol Kong or Grant Gibbs. And, imo his biggest mistake was sticking with Meech this long. Meech has not proven that he is capable of being a starting point guard for a Div 1 team at the level Gonzaga plays at. He never prooved it last year and nothing has changed between then and now. And I will stick with what I have said all along, that in a big game against good guards, Meech will not be able to defend them. His defense these last few games has been horrible. Unfortunately it all starts with the point guard on offense and on defense.

jazzdelmar
01-28-2011, 10:58 AM
i have just one question: there was no question? after the game i assume there is some sort of q&a with press. now i know there are no mike lupicas or jj adandes covering the zags, but still, wouldnt u expect few wd have been asked why two putative starters -- arop and keita -- did not play a second, and why dower, the zags star that night, was pulled? not with recrimination should such questions be asked, just thorough journalism. maybe it did happen; i wd sure like to know fews response.......oh and i agree w reborn, fews comments are the beginning of a spin campaign to cover this years dreadful year. i also agree that theres not much more he can do w the talent assembled. but they are his recruits, so every trail goes back to few. he certainly has earned the right to a down year, even two. but it wd be more palatable if he just were more forthright w the fan base.

Saxon_zag
01-28-2011, 11:00 AM
Coach Few is a great guy and a great recruiter but his in game decision are really really bad. He just was bailed out these past years after making bad decisions because of the exceptional talent on the team or that go to guy like Matt Bouldin directing the floor. This year the leader is supposedly Steven Gray who is a turnover machine.

Taking Sam D out late, Will play Meech/stocks/Carter at the same time but refuses to let Harris/Dower/Sacre see the floor together even though that is our best offensive option. Does he show the guys film? Didn't seem like anybody knew Mcconnell and Dell would toss up those girly looking jumpers and make them from anywhere. We got beat by a team of jumpshooters (and by team i mean 2 guys and the occasional pitch in from a tubby undersized "big".) Why was sacre on the perimeter guarding those guards so much? What was our defensive plan going in? Coach few has been quite the joke this year and I really think his ego gets in the way of the right decision sometimes. I can't think his assistants are advising him to make some of these boneheaded calls

thespywhozaggedme
01-28-2011, 11:02 AM
i have just one question: there was no question? after the game i assume there is some sort of q&a with press. now i know there are no mike lupicas or jj adandes covering the zags, but still, wouldnt u expect few wd have been asked why two putative starters -- arop and keita -- did not play a second, and why dower, the zags star that night, was pulled? not with recrimination should such questions be asked, just thorough journalism. maybe it did happen; i wd sure like to know fews response.......

Not a conspiracy theorist in the least; but .....

Rio Runner
01-28-2011, 11:05 AM
I think the coaching staff has done just about as well as can be expected with this group of guys, imo. The biggest mistake this staff has made has been in recruiting. Meech is not who they thought he was, nor Carter or Arop, imo. Nor was Bol Kong or Grant Gibbs. And, imo his biggest mistake was sticking with Meech this long. Meech has not proven that he is capable of being a starting point guard for a Div 1 team at the level Gonzaga plays at. He never prooved it last year and nothing has changed between then and now. And I will stick with what I have said all along, that in a big game against good guards, Meech will not be able to defend them. His defense these last few games has been horrible. Unfortunately it all starts with the point guard on offense and on defense.

Agreed. Meech simply cannot play quality basketball at this level. Several people on this board rejoiced when he had a great first half at USF, but it is quite obvious that that was an aberration (even Johnny LeMaster hit a home run every once in a while).

Pargo the Destroyer
01-28-2011, 11:08 AM
I agree with woo. This isn't the national enquirer. If it was then I would have posted that the reason they didn't play was because it turns out they are from outer space, and that ruled them ineligible due to interplanetary rule 1.435.we. Which clearly states no UFO traveling aliens are allowed to suit up in more than 21 games per NCAA agreement with outerspace collegiate athletic association, also known as the OCAA. We trade humans for non humans you see but their nervous system breaks down in out thick atmospheric pressure after time.......
I think you get my drift. I'm sure there is room over at the scout board for nonfactual, pure speculative posts. I'm sure that wegotmorrison guy is going off over there all by himself.

Oh, and lastly, if I did make a post about them being aliens and that was the reason they didn't play, well, I'd expect it to be removed as well.'

jazzdelmar
01-28-2011, 11:08 AM
they were told not to bring it up


what in the world are u talking about? that comment is so "1984" it is scary.....again, no pulitzers will be heading meehan's way any time soon, but surely he studied journalism at some point....

btzag
01-28-2011, 11:14 AM
Now would be the time to criticize, absolutely. According to meehans article the decision to not play arop and keita was strictly a coaches decision and not related to injury, illness or suspension. That is either:

_total bs and he is covering something up which in itself is garbage

OR

_one of the absolute worst coaching decisions ever made at gu.


Think about this...arop plays his a#@ off against usf but wilts under the pressure and misses some fts down the stretch costing the zags the game and so few follows that up by sitting arop for the whole next game!!! What!!! That scenario makes no sense at all so I am making the assumption that it is option one.

Few owes the fans more than this.

Schmitty
01-28-2011, 11:18 AM
Coach Few is a great guy and a great recruiter but his in game decision are really really bad. He just was bailed out these past years after making bad decisions because of the exceptional talent on the team or that go to guy like Matt Bouldin directing the floor. This year the leader is supposedly Steven Gray who is a turnover machine.

Taking Sam D out late, Will play Meech/stocks/Carter at the same time but refuses to let Harris/Dower/Sacre see the floor together even though that is our best offensive option. Does he show the guys film? Didn't seem like anybody knew Mcconnell and Dell would toss up those girly looking jumpers and make them from anywhere. We got beat by a team of jumpshooters (and by team i mean 2 guys and the occasional pitch in from a tubby undersized "big".) Why was sacre on the perimeter guarding those guards so much? What was our defensive plan going in? Coach few has been quite the joke this year and I really think his ego gets in the way of the right decision sometimes. I can't think his assistants are advising him to make some of these boneheaded calls

This is from a D1 head coach (from another school of course) whom I talked with this morning about last nights game...

"tough to win close games with NAIA caliber pt guards"

Saxon_zag
01-28-2011, 11:19 AM
Now would be the time to criticize, absolutely. According to meehans article the decision to not play arop and keita was strictly a coaches decision and not related to injury, illness or suspension. That is either:

_total bs and he is covering something up which in itself is garbage

OR

_one of the absolute worst coaching decisions ever made at gu.


Think about this...arop plays his a#@ off against usf but wilts under the pressure and misses some fts down the stretch costing the zags the game and so few follows that up by sitting arop for the whole next game!!! What!!! That scenario makes no sense at all so I am making the assumption that it is option one.

Few owes the fans more than this.

Can't wait till we get a sugar-coated answer on the Mark Few show from him. PLus his usual, "well everyone has an opinion we can't listen to that" if any of his decisions are called into question.

DixieZag
01-28-2011, 11:26 AM
RE: Response to Hoff being the three point gun we need. He has the ability, certainly - but he cannot seem to get open, open enough to be counted on for 10 pts a game - and if he misses two in a row, he is done for the game. THAT might be a good criticism of the coach, too quick a hook, not letting people "find" their game. I'll say this about Hoff, he is a much better rebounder than he gets credit for, he goes up strong and can get one hand on it and bring it down.

Sometimes I think if Meech were told, YOU are going to play 40 minutes, no matter what, do your job, look for your opportunities and play w/o fear - - he might really go off - - then again, we might lose by 50. But there is no doubt that some players play in fear of the hook.

sittingon50
01-28-2011, 11:30 AM
This thread is all over the place but I never would have guessed when I woke up this morning that I would find a Johnny LeMaster reference on the GU basketball board! :roll:

Oh and BZ, I'll go with stoning for $100. As a child of the 60's at least it's open for a little interpretation. :D

john montana
01-28-2011, 11:31 AM
"tough to win close games with NAIA caliber pt guards"

this times 1000.

btzag
01-28-2011, 11:32 AM
I honestly feel one of the top reasons he is still at gu is because he does not get criticized.

This still is a good thing for the zags a he is a very good coach but at the same time it is frustrating. Also anybody in the business world or other professions knows that a healthy debate is a positive thing and important for success. My hope is that few has this debate with the other coaches behind closed doors and that there is some dissenting opinions that he listens to...because as we all know there is nothing public about this process.

Therunner
01-28-2011, 11:38 AM
Uh....great post, but one major glaring error. Mathis is tied for 9th in the entire country in 3 point shooting @ 50%, he is the very definition of a "three point assassin."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points

In 22 mins played last night, he attempted ONE shot -- one. He made it, then didn't even look to fight for open lane, look, or otherwise. He has the ability to get open or play of screens, yet he chooses to play 'hot potato' with the ball & therefore gets swallowed up on perimeter.

w/o the 3pt presence, he's a below average defender, ok rebounder, and decent passer, yet certainly not worthy of 20+ mins vs St Mary's. IF Hoff isn't going to shoot, what good is he to the team besided being average at everything? How can 5'9" Stock find his freakin' shot along the perimeter, yet 6'7" Monninghoff can't?

We really needed Arop last night --- solid defender, amazing rebounder, good shooter, lackluster ball-handler, but he would have been a nice element to add with Harris, Sacre, & Gray.

Monninghoff, on the otherhand, was a complete and utter, non-factor. Another thing for Coach Few to explain -- Mathis rec 22 mins of nothing, nada, poof.

jake
01-28-2011, 11:50 AM
I agree completely with the post above. The problem is we had too many minutes going to guys that don't produce offensively. Too many role players playing too many minutes. Arop and Keita are two athletic guys that can create some havoc. Instead we had a lineup of a bunch of guys that primarily catch the ball and pass it to someone else. Moenninghoff is a great shooter, but he plays 22 minutes and goes 1-1?? Heís not a great defender or passer. If heís not shooting why is he getting those minutes?

We had four guys play over 20 minutes that combined were 2-10 from the floor. Thatís 85 out of 200 minutes. They did have some assists, but a lineup that is 60% guys that canít create isnít going to be effective. It's not the shooting percentage it's the ability to keep the offense high powered. I know St. Mary's did not get great production from down low and we struggled from the guard/wings, but when it's the guys on the perimeter that can't create, I think it bogs things down more than the other way around. Just my $0.02.

DixieZag
01-28-2011, 11:53 AM
Agree, if Arop was on his game, it might well have been the difference last night - takes the heat off of Rob to get rebounds and always seems to get 6-8 pts off of rebounds.

I can't help but think this was disciplinary. And if it was, fine - no one outside the program needs to know. Few has a proven record of taking no BS on "serious" transgressions, if this was a minor one, but good for the team - I trust him.

Pargo the Destroyer
01-28-2011, 11:57 AM
According to meehans twitter, he forgot to ask about manny and Keita after the game. Spokesman Review for ya.

UberZagFan
01-28-2011, 12:05 PM
Coaches decision? Baloney.

The decision to play all point guards in the committee down the stretch is astounding.

The decision to refuse to play Sacre/Dower/Harris at the same time is confounding.

Aside from recruiting, one of the biggest "job duties" of a head coach is to develop roles for his players, all of them, 1-12. Sacre is the only one out there that looks like he knows what his role is, what is expected of him.

Pure
01-28-2011, 12:14 PM
Come On: Its OK to question Few especially something so obvious it stinks. This is exactly the forum to do so.

Why did Manny nor Keita see one second of playing time???. If they step in and only take one foul away from Grey , that could of been the difference.

No one wants us to post conjecture: Then what is the answer ?? This is so obvious Mehann did'nt think to ask it ? I find that hard to believe, or completely incompetent.. More likely he agreed not to mention in as part of the buddy buddy system.

There a number of reasons we have a 3 game skid. Refs, lack of defense , etc ... And While the coach can take the glory for these years, a simple answer to the above question is not asking too much.

Either he made a mistake and forgot they are on the bench.. which is forgivable based on his illustrious past ... Or They ???

Hoping we Triumph in Vegas... On a positive NIT note maybe we can host a game or two ..

UberZagFan
01-28-2011, 12:15 PM
Mathis didnt even attempt a shot last night. Want to try that again?

Actually, MM attempted one shot....and made it. It'd be nice if he attempted a few more.

Hoopaholic
01-28-2011, 12:19 PM
it was bizzare as there was several points in the game when a lift from the 3 slot could have been huge and the kids were not even given a sniff at the court......

maynard g krebs
01-28-2011, 12:38 PM
We really needed Arop last night --- solid defender, amazing rebounder, good shooter, lackluster ball-handler

Manny is not the same since the foot injury. Amazing rebounder last year; this year his reb avg per game is about the same in nearly double the minutes.

CB4
01-28-2011, 01:25 PM
Ive said it before and gotten crucified for it but I'll say it again; Few is very good in a low to mid conference team. He cant get over the door step from there. Amazing conference record, amazing NCAA APPEARANCE record, but all his teams can do is make an appearance. Cant get over the hump. It is what it is - well actually it was what it was. BYU changes all. No way Few would or should leave what he has built but some believe that if he was going to he should have left when his stock was still high 4 years ago, its not so high anymore.

+1

Few has it made in the shade at Gonzaga. If Duke offered him Coach K's job he would not take it. This makes many Zag fans feel warm and cozy inside. Great. But it's not a quality that I personally want in a coach. Few is comfortable here, plain and simple. He has hit the roof of his success and it will take someone else to raise that roof and take Gonzaga to the next level. Many posters on this board think that notion is ridiculous. Unfortunately that seems to be the mentality that surrounds the program. Content. I just hope that with Rice gone and the amount of flops and transfers, the program isn't on the brink of a decline.

pargo4prez
01-28-2011, 01:26 PM
Any time a team is struggling the blame gets put on the coach. I support Mark Few's coaching decisions 100% because even if I think one player should be on the court over another, I know Mark Few ACTUALLY KNOW'S HIS TEAM A LITTLE BETTER THAN WE, AS FANS, DO.

Mantua
01-28-2011, 01:31 PM
We talk constantly about players needing to sharpen their skills and learn more about the game.

At what point do coaches no longer need to improve?

CB4
01-28-2011, 01:36 PM
Any time a team is struggling the blame gets put on the coach. I support Mark Few's coaching decisions 100% because even if I think one player should be on the court over another, I know Mark Few ACTUALLY KNOW'S HIS TEAM A LITTLE BETTER THAN WE, AS FANS, DO.

Many attitudes that may be contrary to yours regarding Mark Few are not simply knee jerk reactions. Perhaps some are just that, however most attitudes have been built up over the last few years.

DCZag
01-28-2011, 01:53 PM
Guess Izzo sucks too (12-8) - oh yeah Roy Williams at UNC too, missed the tourney, he sucks....

Some of you don't know how hard this stuff is to sustain over the long haul

UberZagFan
01-28-2011, 02:43 PM
Guess Izzo sucks too (12-8) - oh yeah Roy Williams at UNC too, missed the tourney, he sucks....

Some of you don't know how hard this stuff is to sustain over the long haul

Both Izzo and Roy take way way way more criticism from the fan base, the alums and the media than Few ever has from the same. Don't think anyone is saying Few sucks but just questioning some of the moves of late.

And an opinion that Few is a really good mid-major coach but not good at getting the team to the next level is just that--an opinion. Uber doesn't agree with it but can admit that the facts to date suggests that there is some merit to it.

Birddog
01-28-2011, 03:27 PM
I had no idea we had so many experts participating on these boards. I assume you all attended each and every practice leading up to last nights game too.

adoptedzag
01-28-2011, 03:38 PM
Uh....great post, but one major glaring error. Mathis is tied for 9th in the entire country in 3 point shooting @ 50%, he is the very definition of a "three point assassin."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points

An assassin that rarely takes a shot isn't much of an assassin.

kclubfounder
01-28-2011, 03:45 PM
Anybody who thinks Few doesn't get criticized as much as other coaches is wrong.

Because of the incredible luck we have had as Zag fans to have a coach like Few stay and not jump for bigger bucks, he has more defenders than other coaches around the country.

But to claim that he isn't criticized as much is ignorant in my humble opinion.

Bogozags
01-28-2011, 04:03 PM
Uh....great post, but one major glaring error. Mathis is tied for 9th in the entire country in 3 point shooting @ 50%, he is the very definition of a "three point assassin."

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points

He is an excellent shooter but not sure he can create for him self and one other note, our offense is not geared to the three ball like SMC. He was ineffective last night IMO and he is not the shooter McConnell is at least this year.

Howcome KM or MA didn't get any minutes...if someone knows, then please just do a PM and help me understand, why IMO our best defender KM didn't play!?!?

Bogozags
01-28-2011, 04:04 PM
Well said.

+1

Bogozags
01-28-2011, 04:13 PM
RE: Response to Hoff being the three point gun we need. He has the ability, certainly - but he cannot seem to get open, open enough to be counted on for 10 pts a game - and if he misses two in a row, he is done for the game. THAT might be a good criticism of the coach, too quick a hook, not letting people "find" their game. I'll say this about Hoff, he is a much better rebounder than he gets credit for, he goes up strong and can get one hand on it and bring it down.

Sometimes I think if Meech were told, YOU are going to play 40 minutes, no matter what, do your job, look for your opportunities and play w/o fear - - he might really go off - - then again, we might lose by 50. But there is no doubt that some players play in fear of the hook.

"...fear of the hook."

That is the phrase I've been wanting to say all season regarding Manny and Carter. They both have skills but maybe it is just the system in which they play. When they are on the court, they are sixth and seventh options. Is seems that Manny can't wait to get rid of the ball. He ball fakes on 3-balls and never shoots it and the defender is in the air and he could get three FT's...or that is what I notice from him. He has to be soooo open for him to shoot that three.

Rio Runner
01-28-2011, 04:17 PM
I had no idea we had so many experts participating on these boards. I assume you all attended each and every practice leading up to last nights game too.

At the risk of sounding like Allen Iverson, "Why are we talking about practice??" The bottom line is who can perform in games. Goodson, Carter, and Monninghoff can't. In 63 combined minutes last night, they combined for a grand total of 8 points on 2-9 shooting. Who cares if they had a good practice?

Das Zagger
01-28-2011, 04:27 PM
Guess Izzo sucks too (12-8) - oh yeah Roy Williams at UNC too, missed the tourney, he sucks....

Some of you don't know how hard this stuff is to sustain over the long haul

Hi there.

How many times have they cut down nets?


TIA.

xjzico
01-28-2011, 04:46 PM
At the risk of sounding like Allen Iverson, "Why are we talking about practice??" The bottom line is who can perform in games. Goodson, Carter, and Monninghoff can't. In 63 combined minutes last night, they combined for a grand total of 8 points on 2-9 shooting. Who cares if they had a good practice?
One can wonder just what they're practicing. The newcomers play is easily explainable. The problems seem to lay with the 3/4 of the core of this team who are as unreliable as the newbies.

btzag
01-28-2011, 05:04 PM
I had no idea we had so many experts participating on these boards. I assume you all attended each and every practice leading up to last nights game too.

For Birddog and others who hold this opinion...

It's not that we know more about the team or the decisions that go into them. We are also not better coaches whether in game or recruiting. We as fans are also not the leaders they are or mentors that they are.

However what I would like as a fan is a simple explanation of why he benched two mid to upper level players on this team in the biggest game of the year so far. Is that too much to ask?

Mark Few is paid, most likely, over a million dollars a year by Gonzaga University and other donors. His position as head coach of a high D1 team means with a rabid fan base requires that he give A LITTLE and inform the public when he makes a highly controversial decision to bench two players. If he doesn't want that responsibility go coach over in Cheney or out in Montana. Few seems to want the best of ALL worlds...coach a top 15 team but have no scrutiny or criticism.

Also, exclude me, but we fans are not stupid so don't treat us like we are. Saying that the benching of Arop and Keita was a coaches decision is meant to sweep it under the rug but you know what it just pisses fans like us all off!

pargo4prez
01-28-2011, 05:23 PM
I had no idea we had so many experts participating on these boards. I assume you all attended each and every practice leading up to last nights game too.

My point exactly...thank you! Like I said, I think Mark Few knows his team a little better than we as fans do!

ExtremeJim
01-28-2011, 06:57 PM
"...what I would like as a fan is a simple explanation of why he benched two mid to upper level players on this team in the biggest game of the year so far. Is that too much to ask?

It very well might be. I do know that if the reason was medical, for example, there are the privacy provisions of the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) that govern what information can be released if the players do not consent. This law has been in effect for years, now, and this would not be the first time it prevented fans from knowing the status of players.

And I will speculate that if the reason were disciplinary, or related to academic performance short of total loss of eligibility, there is a provision in the student conduct policy of the University that prevents a school spokesman from revealing punishment (to include suspensions) again, unless the student athlete had given consent. This assumption could easily be checked by someone with access to that conduct policy; I'm not on campus.

Believing these things, it does not bother me that the coaching staff hasn't seen fit to make any announcements in this area. I don't wager on college sports, either, because this information is rarely available for college teams like it would be for pro games, and rightly so, I think. Those of us who are aware of the college point-shaving scandals of the past understand this is for the integrity of the game. Some of the younger among you might not remember how devastating that period in the game was, so thoroughly has the corruption been rooted out.

ZagDaddy
01-29-2011, 06:04 AM
What this team needs most is more consistent point guard play. On paper our strength should be our front court and it takes a natural point guard to deliver the ball to the post players in positions where they can score. I believe that if GU had a player who is a natural point guard a lot of ills on this team go away.

David is the most natural PG on the current roster and that is why the offense often looks better with him on the floor. That being said he doesn't come without some serious limitations which probably prevent him from being a long term solution.

I think the Zags have been without a true point for a couple of years. We were able to get away with it last year because Matt was such a skilled combo guard that he could mask that team weakness. This year's team doesn't have that ability.

Of course the coaches recognize that. All you have to do is look at the recruiting they've done for next year to see that. They rolled the dice on Carter hoping he would help out but that hasn't panned out as hoped.

From the beginning of the year I thought with this year's personnel limitations I would not be at all surprised if they didn't make the tourney. If that turns out to be the case, though disappointing, it's not the end of the world. Not making the tourney has happened to most if not all great programs. Good can come from that too.

In the end, you can't win if you don't have the horses. And well, the Zags are missing a key element this year. It happens. It does not mean coaches like Mark Few and staff are suddenly incompetent.

Though I reserve the right to disagree with Few about some strategies and will never be in the camp that believes he can do no wrong, I wouldn't swap him for anyone else either.

There is so much more to coaching at the Div 1 level than W's and L's. Recruiting players who fit your system and the school's academic requirements, getting young men who will represent your institution properly and keep it out of the headlines for the wrong reasons, fund raising ability, graduating kids, fathering players, developing players, playing within NCAA regulations, etc.,all make up a coaches role and expectations.

When you look at the whole, Mark and staff do an outstanding job. This may be a bit of a down year but that happens to everyone. To all those who are crying doom and gloom and castigating the coaching staff I say, "Lighten up, Francis!"

DCZag
01-29-2011, 06:30 AM
Hi there.

How many times have they cut down nets?


TIA.

My point exactly - they cut down the nets and have multiple burger boys every year, and still can't sustain indefinitely, they have down years for whatever reason - we ain't there yet as a program. But we are building that way.
Butler is struggling this yr as well and they were in the NC game last year and only missing one guy from that squad.

There is this thing out there that a good portion of the posters here don't seem to understand - it's called LOYALTY - Few has showed it to us, and I'll show it back - it's a two way street

HillBillyZag
01-29-2011, 08:20 AM
As the old cliche goes ;," Sometimes , when put to the test ?, and ounce of LOYALTY is worth a pound of skill ."

btzag
01-29-2011, 08:30 AM
It very well might be. I do know that if the reason was medical, for example, there are the privacy provisions of the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) that govern what information can be released if the players do not consent. This law has been in effect for years, now, and this would not be the first time it prevented fans from knowing the status of players.

And I will speculate that if the reason were disciplinary, or related to academic performance short of total loss of eligibility, there is a provision in the student conduct policy of the University that prevents a school spokesman from revealing punishment (to include suspensions) again, unless the student athlete had given consent. This assumption could easily be checked by someone with access to that conduct policy; I'm not on campus.

Believing these things, it does not bother me that the coaching staff hasn't seen fit to make any announcements in this area. I don't wager on college sports, either, because this information is rarely available for college teams like it would be for pro games, and rightly so, I think. Those of us who are aware of the college point-shaving scandals of the past understand this is for the integrity of the game. Some of the younger among you might not remember how devastating that period in the game was, so thoroughly has the corruption been rooted out.

Agreed, I don't think fans deserve all the facts and details just a simple, "Arop and Keita sat because of a minor disciplinary issue, they will learn from this and move on". End of story, no controversy and heresay on boards and the like.

That being said I have criticized and am ready to move on, it's game day!

Go Zags!

gamagin
01-29-2011, 11:19 AM
It very well might be. I do know that if the reason was medical, for example, there are the privacy provisions of the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) that govern what information can be released if the players do not consent. This law has been in effect for years, now, and this would not be the first time it prevented fans from knowing the status of players.

And I will speculate that if the reason were disciplinary, or related to academic performance short of total loss of eligibility, there is a provision in the student conduct policy of the University that prevents a school spokesman from revealing punishment (to include suspensions) again, unless the student athlete had given consent. This assumption could easily be checked by someone with access to that conduct policy; I'm not on campus.

Believing these things, it does not bother me that the coaching staff hasn't seen fit to make any announcements in this area. I don't wager on college sports, either, because this information is rarely available for college teams like it would be for pro games, and rightly so, I think. Those of us who are aware of the college point-shaving scandals of the past understand this is for the integrity of the game. Some of the younger among you might not remember how devastating that period in the game was, so thoroughly has the corruption been rooted out.

I think this lack of information, indeed, silence as a rule, is also a byproduct of John Stockton's influence. Here's the genesis as I've watched it evolve.

When JS and Karl Malone played for the Jazz, it was a rule between them that you only missed a game (or a practice or a workout for that matter) for only the most severe of reasons. Otherwise, you showed up on time and if you laced up there were NO excuses for not giving 100 %.

This went on throughout their careers and JS is THE single player who missed the fewest # of games, I believe, for his tenure or perhaps all time (not sure about the specifics), in NBA history. It's part of his superhero status.

A JS leg (the smaller bone in the thigh, I think it was) was once broken by Michael Jordan when they collided. Stock missed something like two weeks and returned to full duty. He wouldn't talk about it and it wasn't discussed. It very much contributed to his Superman status, however. As it should.

Anyway, JS ran camps at GU, became friends and then workout buddies and a mentor, etc etc., to Few and others, for several years. During that time, the discussion of injuries, illnesses and anything else that might be considered an excuse for not playing, underplaying or just about anything in between, became verboten. In bad form. Unacceptable. Unavailable.

The idea being is when you lace up . . . .

MDABE80
01-29-2011, 12:04 PM
Gamagin,,,, it was the lower leg JS injured. No matter, what's to be gained by allowing injuries to be known? No much. Even if the law said (it doesn't nowadays) that an injury report could be released every Monday, there's no reason to let injuries by publicized.

We need to make do for the rest of the season knowing full well that some of our dogs just don't hunt this year.

We are what are and we've finishing a full 2/3rd of the seaon that shows it. Coaches know what we don't. When "Mr Dependable" has fallen short, it could be for hundreds of reasons. Coaches might not even know.

Let the coaches coach and the players play. This is the season we'll remember. Nothing mysterious, nothing hidden. Something went sideways along the line. It's fine. We're Gonzaga and we'll be back in the thick of it by next year. Remember too though, if a kid is injured or has a psychlological problem (for example) and if Few spoke out, it might hurt the kid's chances for the Euro leagues, NBA or even a transfer.

Let it be fellas. Let it be. The program structure is strong, will survive and will flourish.

ZagNative
01-29-2011, 12:07 PM
Gamagin,,,, it was the lower leg JS injured. No matter, what's to be gained by allowing injuries to be known? No much. Even if the law said (it doesn't nowadays) that an injury report could be released every Monday, there's no reason to let injuries by publicized.

We need to make do for the rest of the season knowing full well that some of our dogs just don't hunt this year.

We are what are and we've finishing a full 2/3rd of the seaon that shows it. Coaches know what we don't. When "Mr Dependable" has fallen short, it could be for hundreds of reasons. Coaches might not even know.

Let the coaches coach and the players play. This is the season we'll remember. Nothing mysterious, nothing hidden. Something went sideways along the line. It's fine. We're Gonzaga and we'll be back in the thick of it by next year. Remember too though, if a kid is injured or has a psychlological problem (for example) and if Few spoke out, it might hurt the kid's chances for the Euro leagues, NBA or even a transfer.

Let it be fellas. Let it be. The program structure is strong, will survive and will flourish.Wow, Abe! Post of the year!

MDABE80
01-29-2011, 12:54 PM
Thanks you "Fabulous Sports Babe You!"...too much coffee and an old worn out keyboard generate mistake...sorry.<--- it's Abe's way of blaming the bat when I don't get some hits;)

BUT most of all, we're not even 1/12th through the year! So "Post of the Year" is of limited value!

ZagNative
01-29-2011, 01:03 PM
Not often I read a post that's worth a re-visit, like that one sure is. It's what we call "pithy," Abe. I have to go find a graphic for "pithy!"

Be right back!

Edited to add: Still searching for something amazing to annoy my fellow posters. This one isn't exactly what I was looking for, but it was too good to pass up in this environment:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/nazareneuk/RqWSoWKvOBI/AAAAAAAAAag/91FFiXdoSvI/opinions.gif.jpg

Jedster
01-29-2011, 02:02 PM
For Birddog and others who hold this opinion...


However what I would like as a fan is a simple explanation of why he benched two mid to upper level players on this team in the biggest game of the year so far. Is that too much to ask?



Few gave you a simple explanation as to why he benched those two players; Coaches decision.

As has been stated, if it's HIPPA related and the player doesn't want it disclosed, it can't be disclosed. As much as I want to satisfy my undying curiosity (and the urge to know every bit of gossip about these players) as to why they didn't play, I have to also respect Few for not disclosing the reason, especially if it's in the best interest of the player. Sometimes coaches will not release the info in order to not let the heat get directed on them. Let's suppose that it's because Manny and Mathis were up all night before the game drunk as skunks and throwing up all morning. Sure I'd love to know all the details, but is it really in the best interest of the players for all that attention (different if they break the law as that's public record)?

I guess the short of it is, "why do we NEED to know, or why do we feel we have the RIGHT to know all this? We don't need to know, we WANT to know. I would think with the track record and integrity of coach Few, if he says it's his decision and it's an internal team issue we can accept that as an answer. We don't have to like it, but we can trust him that it was the right decision for those players and the program in the long-term.

kclubfounder
01-29-2011, 02:07 PM
Few gave you a simple explanation as to why he benched those two players; Coaches decision.

As has been stated, if it's HIPPA related and the player doesn't want it disclosed, it can't be disclosed. As much as I want to satisfy my undying curiosity (and the urge to know every bit of gossip about these players) as to why they didn't play, I have to also respect Few for not disclosing the reason, especially if it's in the best interest of the player. Sometimes coaches will not release the info in order to not let the heat get directed on them. Let's suppose that it's because Manny and Mathis were up all night before the game drunk as skunks and throwing up all morning. Sure I'd love to know all the details, but is it really in the best interest of the players for all that attention (different if they break the law as that's public record)?

I guess the short of it is, "why do we NEED to know, or why do we feel we have the RIGHT to know all this? We don't need to know, we WANT to know. I would think with the track record and integrity of coach Few, if he says it's his decision and it's an internal team issue we can accept that as an answer. We don't have to like it, but we can trust him that it was the right decision for those players and the program in the long-term.

Well said.

jazzdelmar
01-29-2011, 02:19 PM
This is from a D1 head coach (from another school of course) whom I talked with this morning about last nights game... "tough to win close games with NAIA caliber pt guards"



schmitty, whoever your source is, he is spot on......this problem dwarfs all others.......

kclubfounder
01-29-2011, 02:23 PM
If the post is legitimate, I'd sure love to know who the D-1 coach is.

vandalzag
01-29-2011, 03:42 PM
NAIA may be a bit off since 2 of the 3 would thrive/dominate at the NAIA ranks. That being said the problem is too apparent to miss. The PG play has taken away from the team, with no easy solution on the horizon other than hoping to cull together some type of performance by 2 of the 3 on any given night.

Prior to the season you would have had to put a gun to the coaching staff to get them to say that Stockton would be calming offensive influence on this team.
Coaches knew at the end of last year they were short a PG and a legitimate 3pt threat, if they able to solve those two issues the team had a chance to make a run come March(thus the late reaches in recruiting). If unable to solve the issue than we would be looking at what we have right now, a team still trying to find itself after 20 games.

WallaWallaZag
01-29-2011, 04:02 PM
NAIA may be a bit off since 2 of the 3 would thrive/dominate at the NAIA ranks. That being said the problem is too apparent to miss. The PG play has taken away from the team, with no easy solution on the horizon other than hoping to cull together some type of performance by 2 of the 3 on any given night.

Prior to the season you would have had to put a gun to the coaching staff to get them to say that Stockton would be calming offensive influence on this team.
Coaches knew at the end of last year they were short a PG and a legitimate 3pt threat, if they able to solve those two issues the team had a chance to make a run come March(thus the late reaches in recruiting). If unable to solve the issue than we would be looking at what we have right now, a team still trying to find itself after 20 games.

i think most everyone agrees that pg is our biggest problem...however, i also think most everyone can agree that we knew this was going to be the case coming into the year. i think most had high expectations for this year in spite of this fact...in other words, i'm not really sure our pg's have underperformed according to our expectations...i think they've been about as good as what many expected.

so what changed? i think steven gray is roughly about what we expected and rob sacre maybe even more than we had a right to expect. i think the newcomers have realistically performed to about what we could expect...maybe some expected more from marquise carter but i think the foreigners have at the very least met expectations.

that leaves us with elias harris and manny arop...and i think this is where the team has probably fallen short of expectations in terms of production and also maybe why the team as whole has not met expectations. while pg is obviously a problem, i think many were expecting an all-american caliber year from harris and/or a major jump from arop.

CB4
01-29-2011, 04:27 PM
IMO, Gibbs and GJ would be nice options to mix in to the offense right about now!

fedwayzag
01-29-2011, 07:47 PM
something occurred to me over the last couple of days and another poster inda made reference to it. Over the past 3-4 years Few has recruited players he believes can help him win in the NCAA tournement. Which might actually be a detriment to winning the WCC. More and better atheletes and not as good of shooters. Just a thought.

xjzico
01-29-2011, 08:32 PM
so what changed? i think steven gray is roughly about what we expected
I expected more out of Gray. My hope was he would steady the team but he's just as erratic as everyone else.