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View Full Version : The WCC will always be second class...



Spike94
01-27-2011, 09:49 PM
First, congrats to SMC. McConnel made a great shot at the end. Was worried that might happen when Carter made his FTs. But as I sat watching with my buddies, in the first half mind you, I was awestruck at how bad the officials were. And I made this comment on an offencive foul made by SMC. Sacre drew a charge, but obviously was moving. Horrible call. So, my first point is, the refs sucked both ways. That being said, when you have to take into consideration how bad the refs are into your coaching strategy that is a problem. My point is with Gray. Few left him in with about 8 minutes to go with 4 fouls. Not a bad play in my mind. I think in reality, you should be able to control whether you commit a foul. Yes, you might have to take something off going full bore, but you can control it. Unless, of course, you have refs that call crap like we have in the WCC. That was not an offensive foul. He was not set, didn't have position. Then the next play, McConnel hooks Goodson, takes two steps and get a three point play. The hook was an offensive foul, and might I remind you THERE IS NO CONTINUATION IN COLLEGE BASKETBALL. Followed by Sacre getting tackled with about 40 to go. Unbelievable. There should have been a foul somewhere. WCC will always be second class as long as they keep these kind of refs. They were bad both way, but bad still the same, and yet again have a direct impact on the outcome of this game. Thanks.

Rio Runner
01-27-2011, 09:50 PM
I agree with you generally. But not tonight. The refs were fine.

Saxon_zag
01-27-2011, 09:58 PM
I agree with you generally. But not tonight. The refs were fine.

There is no continuation in college basketball.



The refs were terrible tonight and Gray and Few matched their horrible decision making themselves. Few with the rotation and Gray with his fouls. When you have 4 you should go barreling into the lane and push off with your off arm 2 plays in a row. You're daring the officials to give you your 5th. Gray has just been Brutal lately and his decision making is gone.

Nevtelen
01-27-2011, 09:59 PM
Yeah, the refs were called just about everything both ways. Yes, that does play into SMC's game play - BCS refs will call call a game more like the Vandy game and SMC will get murdered. But the WCC refs (and west coast refs) often call a lot more touch fouls. I don't personally like it, but it was consistent tonight and you can't fault that for the L.

d2zag
01-27-2011, 10:01 PM
I agree with you generally. But not tonight. The refs were fine.

You might be due for an optometrist appointment.

Spike94
01-27-2011, 10:02 PM
I respectfully disagree with you. Just watch any of the conferences ranked above us and you will see far more consistent officiating. I'm not saying that the officials cost us the game. Not shutting down MM and Dela did. However, the crap fouls on Gray and Sacre as well as their inconsistant use of the whistle throughout the game makes the WCC pure second class. WCC refs are a complete joke. They have been for years. We just are good enough this year to win despite them.

maynard g krebs
01-27-2011, 10:07 PM
You might be due for an optometrist appointment.

I used to be an optometrist, but now I'm a pessimetrist.

sullyzag66
01-27-2011, 10:13 PM
I respectfully disagree with you. Just watch any of the conferences ranked above us and you will see far more consistent officiating. I'm not saying that the officials cost us the game. Not shutting down MM and Dela did. However, the crap fouls on Gray and Sacre as well as their inconsistant use of the whistle throughout the game makes the WCC pure second class. WCC refs are a complete joke. They have been for years. We just are good enough this year to win despite them.
Last night's SDSU @ BYU game was an example of good, consistent officiating. BYU is going to have to make some adjustments to WCC officiating next year.

Spike94
01-27-2011, 10:19 PM
I completely agree. I'm just looking for consistency. Either finesse or physical. But, it should be the same throughout the game. How on earth could there be NOTHING called on the Sacre shot with about 40 seconds to go? Not offensive, not defensive, nothing. And yet, Grays 3rd and 4th were pure ticky tack touch fouls. I just don't get it.

EngineerZag
01-27-2011, 10:22 PM
I could not believe how many touch fouls were called tonight, both ways. And several charging calls both ways that were invalid.

CaliforniaZaggin'
01-27-2011, 10:26 PM
The WCC officiating favors finesse teams. I feel like the Zags can't make an agressive move to the basket in traffic without being called for an offensive foul. On the other end, I feel like even the slightest contact on the perimeter ends up in a foul call.

Why'd the other thread on the same topic get moved and then deleted?

JPtheBeasta
01-27-2011, 10:40 PM
I used to be an optometrist, but now I'm a pessimetrist.

My glass is half full......of bad foul calls

Nelsonzag
01-27-2011, 11:04 PM
I can't believe some people in her think the game was called fairly. Sacre was put in a headlock and we end up with a double foul? That changed the whole game because Few sat our main post. And then they call offensive on Gray but the next play McConnell hooks with his elbow and it's a foul on us? Plus he gets continuation! This is the worst officiated game I have seen in a very long time

Santangelo_for_3
01-27-2011, 11:21 PM
The big thing for me tonight was consistency or lack there of. Regarding Gray's two touch fouls, how were they different than what he had been doing all night. Then his last foul, he had been creating a little room the same way on several other occasions and nothing was called. In my mind as a player doesn't that tell me that what I'm doing is ok and they aren't calling this little touch foul or creating a little space. Plus that stupid double foul on Sacre meant that we had nobody to draw fouls on their players down low who were in deep foul trouble. Can't believe not one of them fouled out. It shouldn't have came down to Carter with those two free throws because Rob was fouled bad well before that. Just makes it hard to watch. And I don't want to see anymore people throwing up stats about how many fouls and free throws and all that stat poaching stuff. You have to look at the fouls that were called or not called not just the number. EX: NO CONTINUATION IN COLLEGE, or Rob's incidents in Cali, with the weak jump ball against Santa Clara that should have been a foul, then the elbow.

webspinnre
01-27-2011, 11:25 PM
I can't believe some people in her think the game was called fairly.

If you consider how badly the first half was called in our favor, I could see an argument being made for fair. However, I'd rather just have it called right in both halves rather than the tale of two halves we had tonight.

Birddog
01-28-2011, 03:31 AM
+1

If you consider how badly the first half was called in our favor, I could see an argument being made for fair. However, I'd rather just have it called right in both halves rather than the tale of two halves we had tonight
The reffing was terrible, unfortunately it was also even handed. The big problem was that they evened it up on the Zags at the end. The "continuation" foul was esp egregious, and those two bit "Junior Varsity" announcers should have pounced on that, but didn't.

bigblahla
01-28-2011, 06:05 AM
We lost.

Steven made dumb fouls with his off arm and has been careless with his passing all year. The bright spot is for the first game in I can't remember how long he didn't foul a 3pt shooter.

Rob did place his hands in Jones back and push hence the foul.

Goodson had his arm over McConnell's, that's a foul.

SCU was bad but this was....a game that showed we are not that good of a team.

No go to guy other than Rob and they can hammer him and get away with it.

We have been out recruited by the league and finally we have the parity that we asked for but maybe didn't want.

There won't be ten in a row again folks so get used to it. It's gonna be a dogfight from here on out each and every year as the WCC is better and hopefully it will show in the OOC next year.

So Zaggies let's show a little class we got beat by a good SMC team, McConnell is aces.

The difference this year is we're losing the close ones, law of averages.

Does anybody have any doubts we'll be back?

Lets' lift our heads and our spirits and get behind our guys and take down USD.

This isn't on coach and staff as far as performance this is a team loss just like the rest of them. We just have not evolved into a cohesive team on either side of the ball.

I'm as big of a homer as there is here but it is what it is.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

kclubfounder
01-28-2011, 06:27 AM
The older I get, the less often I blame the refs.

I have come to the understanding that the more I care about a game the more I think the refs suck.

Gang, it wasn't the refs fault last night. They were fine.

Rio Runner
01-28-2011, 06:35 AM
The older I get, the less often I blame the refs.

I have come to the understanding that the more I care about a game the more I think the refs suck.

Gang, it wasn't the refs fault last night. They were fine.

Exactly.

ZagMania
01-28-2011, 06:39 AM
Sacre and Hart both took charges way under the basket, that is one foul on Sacre that he got away with.

I just don't understand Gray's fifth foul, it didn't look like his elbow was any further out than just the normal motion from running while dribbling. Can't blame SMC for flopping when they know he has 4 though, but that was a huge blown call IMO. Sacre's third and fourth were also blown calls, but Few should have brought him back in sooner without Gray.

The officiating was bad but honestly we got more bad calls in our favor imo, there were just a few that really stung us obviously. It still makes the game worse to watch either way though.

rijman
01-28-2011, 06:45 AM
The reffing is not fine, it's inconsistent and they aren't letting the players play. Two hand check fouls on Gray. Two fouls on Sacre that shouldn't have been called that put him on the bench for much of the 2nd half. The refs took Gray and Sacre out of that game.

What does Few think of the reffing? He can't say without being fined/reprimanded by the league. But in his last show he does mention and they replay when Sacre got the elbow foul not only was he getting fouled just prior, the USF coach was calling for his players to foul him. The refs missed that key call that affected the outcome of the game. Gray is getting whistled for hand checks and the game prior Sacre is being intentionally fouled per coaches instructions and no foul called, which becomes a pivotal play when Sacre commits a foul and the ball goes the other way.

I've lost all confidence in the WCC refs.

7ICoug
01-28-2011, 07:03 AM
[QUOTE=Spike94;629779]I respectfully disagree with you. Just watch any of the conferences ranked above us and you will see far more consistent officiating. WCC refs are a complete joke. They have been for years. /QUOTE]

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees

Well we're ranked above you in the Pac-10 and yet its the same there. In fact J T Orr who did your game does a lot of Pac-10 games. But he does do 70% WCC and about 25% Pac-10. Michael Irving is a big time ref that does MWC, Pac-10, and a lot of big games. e.g. WSU vs. KSU, OSU vs. Gonzaga. He does less than 2% WCC games. Scott Harris does WCC and Big Sky and might be mostly a WCC ref at 62%.

Pretty good crew, but all of these guys miss some stuff. Good site in the link to evaluate ref's.