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GUBball
01-27-2011, 09:29 PM
Has anyone figured these out? With three minutes to go in the game we have Stockton, Meech, and Carter, and Monninghoff in the game? Where were Keita and Arop at the end of the game for defense and rebounding??? I love Few, just don't understand the decisions tonight! Oh well, guess we'll have to start a new streak of consecutive conference titles. Hope we atleast get a bye in the conference tournament.

GUDan07
01-27-2011, 09:35 PM
I can not conceive of a rational purpose for having Goodson, Carter and Stockton in at the same time. PG is by FAR our weakest position and he puts all three in at once? Makes no sense at all.

EngineerZag
01-27-2011, 09:37 PM
We had Mike Hart in there for defense, didn't you notice? [/SARCASM]

jayray
01-27-2011, 09:37 PM
During a highlight reel, Announcer: "And here we see Dower, unstoppable, with a minute and half to go St. Mary's has to do something to shut him down . . . . but Dower not in the game right now." And Dower never renters the game. That is the most frustrating things about watching GU play, watching the kids who are playing good get sat until they are cold or never re-enter or watching guys like Keita never enter the game. Or watching three guards play after Grey fouls out.

Saxon_zag
01-27-2011, 09:37 PM
How about few taking out the hot hand Dower for the stretch? Why can't dower harris and sacre all play at the same time? :vomit-smiley-007::vomit-smiley-007::vomit-smiley-007:

JPtheBeasta
01-27-2011, 09:42 PM
I don't understand why Few gave Carter all the run and suddenly has much more confidence in him. Clutch free throws, a good runner, and a key block, but I'm still questioning why he was seeing all those minutes. Those asking about Keita and Manny raise a valid question.

That double foul and the phantom foul on Rob for his fourth were the turning points in the game. And those getting on Gray need to cool it IMO, because he was keeping the Zags in it towards the end leading up to his 5th foul. Can't fault Few for sticking with Dower for a while, because he was balling and giving a huge lift. Hard to win, also, when you shoot 5 free throws or whatever in the second half...

Baldwinzag
01-27-2011, 09:47 PM
Overall, worst coaching job by Few in over a decade...oh wait...

Pretty senseless lineups(4 guards?), use or overuse of certain players(Monninghoff?), & sitting our best player in 2nd half in closing minutes(Dower?).

Certainly didn't help to have out two best perimeter defenders sit all game vs perimeter-oriented team either, Arop & Keita could have really disrupted Mickey & Delly tonight.

Coach Few needs to step up along with the rest of the team. It starts at the top.

GUDan07
01-27-2011, 09:51 PM
Can't fault Few for sticking with Dower for a while, because he was balling and giving a huge lift. Hard to win, also, when you shoot 5 free throws or whatever in the second half...

You're right, but you can definitely fault him for not sticking with Dower. The guy was on fire (6-7 from the field) and then all of a sudden you'd think he was a witness in a mafia hit. Never saw him again. How do you have a guy that is killing them on every possession on the bench and put out a lineup consisting of 3 PGs? Its ridiculous.

TacomaZAG
01-27-2011, 09:52 PM
Just once I'd like to see the Zags implement a "team specific" defensive scheme. I can't remember one in at least the last 10 years. It was even worse tonight, when two of our best three perimeter defenders saw zero minutes against a team that can only beat you from the perimeter.

Unbelievable..........

Go ZAGS

Zagdawg
01-27-2011, 09:57 PM
If we throw the rest of the season--we get a good draft pick right?

JPtheBeasta
01-27-2011, 10:05 PM
If we throw the rest of the season--we get a good draft pick right?

:) Barring a lockout...

Baseline
01-27-2011, 10:27 PM
The substitution patters doesn't make sense to me. Harris is a turnover disaster and not being too active in the game. Dower has a hot hand and can play the 4. So what do they do, sit dower for the rest of the game. The 3 seems to be the trouble spot, so if you insist on playing Harris, try Dower at the 4 and Harris at the 3. This takes pressure of Sacre and would help get their bigs fouled out. The whole player usage this year is very confusing to me.

hooter73
01-27-2011, 10:28 PM
we've ran two bigs before with success and it seems that this game was made for our two bigs to work together and dominate. But tonight it was one or the other (I'll admit some of it was due to foul trouble).

Hoopaholic
01-27-2011, 10:31 PM
hi low wing action would have worked when they went to double and triple team Sacre...not sure why that option was not implemented...

Zag79
01-28-2011, 09:21 PM
The substitution patters doesn't make sense to me. Harris is a turnover disaster and not being too active in the game. Dower has a hot hand and can play the 4. So what do they do, sit dower for the rest of the game. The 3 seems to be the trouble spot, so if you insist on playing Harris, try Dower at the 4 and Harris at the 3. This takes pressure of Sacre and would help get their bigs fouled out. The whole player usage this year is very confusing to me.

3 Tos in 36 minutes by a player in his position really isnt that bad. and considering he was 7-11 for 17 points (high scorer), and had 6 rebounds (2nd on the team) i dont see how he was a disaster or anything close. i do agree sam was killing it, and should have been in there as long as he kept doing it. the fellas PT or lack there of is very confusing this season thats for sure. taking out the hot hand, putting in guys that are cold and havent played late in the game, not playing arop or keita after both have played so well... wow.


Certainly didn't help to have out two best perimeter defenders sit all game vs perimeter-oriented team either, Arop & Keita could have really disrupted Mickey & Delly tonight.

my thoughts exactly. i sure would like to see some consistency in the rotation, and guys that are playing well stay in the game.

Zag 77
01-28-2011, 09:25 PM
:argh:
1.) Olynyk commits a dumb$hit foul on a guy who has a breakaway to the basket and gives him an "and one." Not the first time. When will he learn not to do that????? He was not up to playing the defense we needed against SMC, and frankly Dower had break out game on offense. Keeping Olynyk out: justified.


2.) Arop is inconsistent on offense. Good on rebounding, but Sacre, Harris and Dower were doing fine in that department. Arop could not make a free throw to save his life against USF just 5 days previous, going 1-6 in crunch time. In a close game when free throws count, that is a BIG consideration. Keeping Arop out: justified.


3.) Keita is a freshman, and just starting to get the feel of our offense. Gray was needed, and Keita is not comparable to Gray in terms of offensive production. After Gray fouled out, we needed offense. Carter (older player) was probably a better choice in that department, and in fact did make add some key points. Keeping Keita out: justified.

Zag79
01-28-2011, 10:09 PM
Quote:
1.) Olynyk commits a dumb$hit foul on a guy who has a breakaway to the basket and gives him an "and one." Not the first time. When will he learn not to do that????? He was not up to playing the defense we needed against SMC, and frankly Dower had break out game on offense. Keeping Olynyk out: justified.


2.) Arop is inconsistent on offense. Good on rebounding, but Sacre, Harris and Dower were doing fine in that department. Arop could not make a free throw to save his life against USF just 5 days previous, going 1-6 in crunch time. In a close game when free throws count, that is a BIG consideration. Keeping Arop out: justified.


3.) Keita is a freshman, and just starting to get the feel of our offense. Gray was needed, and Keita is not comparable to Gray in terms of offensive production. After Gray fouled out, we needed offense. Carter (older player) was probably a better choice in that department, and in fact did make add some key points. Keeping Keita out: justified.

i never mentioned olynyk so ill skip #1, but the other two dont make much sense so lets start there. a guy has a bad game from the line so he sits 40 minutes the next?! this is a guy in arop who averages 20 minutes a game, rebounds and can score from anywhere and sits because he missed fts... having a bad game at the line should never warrant sitting the bench the next game. as for keita, he is a freshman but he averages the same amount of points per game as carter. he might be younger yet he still grabs more rebounds, turns the ball over less, and shoots more than 20% better from the floor. not to mention they are both MUCH better perimeter defenders than the guys we had in. the pros definately out weigh the cons if you ask me, its a terrible idea for these two guys to sit all game and it cost us. NOT JUSTIFIED, "again", NOT JUSTIFIED.

Reborn
01-29-2011, 07:56 AM
I don't believe that Few was disciplining either Arop or Keita. I think he believed that the substitutions he made were made to help the team. I honestly thought the subs did a pretty good job for the most part. I mean Dower with 15 was certainly a good choice. And Carter for Gray turned out to be a good decision too. Carter made 4 good points, and the two foul shots were incredible. I was glad to see him make them. I think Carter played very well. He even had a nice check on Delavadova when he was driving to the basket. I don't think Kelly, Arop or Keita were needed in this game. Personally, I would like to see less guys play off the bench. I'm more in favor of an 9 man rotation and sticking to it. If Few made it 8 I would even be happier. I just feel that having so many guys going in and out is a disruption to the team's cohesiveness.

MickMick
01-29-2011, 08:23 AM
I can almost agree with an argument for playing any player except for Carter.

I can see Stockton and Meech together. Not my favorite combo, but I can understand the reasoning.

The stage is too big for Carter. He is halfway through a junior campaign. The "adjustment" argument doesn't fly. With Gray in foul trouble, there has to be another option at the two spot. My concern is that Gray is leaving next season and Carter will be a prominent fixture there next season as well.

I want to know exactly what his strength is. Passing? Shooting? Defense?

Someone clue me in as to what his "strength" is.

Rio Runner
01-29-2011, 08:38 AM
I can almost agree with an argument for playing any player except for Carter.

I can see Stockton and Meech together. Not my favorite combo, but I can understand the reasoning.

The stage is too big for Carter. He is halfway through a junior campaign. The "adjustment" argument doesn't fly. With Gray in foul trouble, there has to be another option at the two spot. My concern is that Gray is leaving next season and Carter will be a prominent fixture there next season as well.

I want to know exactly what his strength is. Passing? Shooting? Defense?

Someone clue me in as to what his "strength" is.


Free throw shooting.

JPtheBeasta
01-29-2011, 08:44 AM
Carter hit a big runner, blocked a shot, a good assist down the strech, and iced some clutch free throws. If the Zags win we are probably talking about what a great decision that was to put him. I still am wondering about Keita, and more so Manny. I still agree with the notion that a Meech-David-Carter backcourt is really weird. I would hate to be Manny right now and don't know how he could play with any confidence when he is in there.

Hoopaholic
01-29-2011, 09:12 AM
carter playing two slot I have said from the beginning is just fine with Gray at 3 or subbed in for gray at 2 slot.

He provides slashing, decent shot from wing area and good passing skills.

He played well against SMC and deserves some minutes

gamagin
01-29-2011, 09:33 AM
Carter hit a big runner, blocked a shot, a good assist down the strech, and iced some clutch free throws. If the Zags win we are probably talking about what a great decision that was to put him. I still am wondering about Keita, and more so Manny. I still agree with the notion that a Meech-David-Carter backcourt is really weird. I would hate to be Manny right now and don't know how he could play with any confidence when he is in there.

Carter appears to be finding his game. And he put in valuable p.t. v. SMC.

Rio Runner
01-29-2011, 10:19 AM
I think you all might be basking in the glow of his clutch free throws. In 20 minutes, he scored 4 points, had 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 turnovers, blocked a shot, and pulled down 2 rebounds. Granted, compared to Goodson, he looked like Michael Jordan. But, apart from his big free throws, he did virtually nothing.

Keita would have been a better option.

JPtheBeasta
01-29-2011, 10:29 AM
I think you all might be basking in the glow of his clutch free throws. In 20 minutes, he scored 4 points, had 0 assists, 0 steals, 0 turnovers, blocked a shot, and pulled down 2 rebounds. Granted, compared to Goodson, he looked like Michael Jordan. But, apart from his big free throws, he did virtually nothing.

Keita would have been a better option.

It's all a beauty is in the eye of the beholder thing. Manny may have had a great game against SFU, but all I remember is the missed freethrows. Another example would be the criticism of Harris- he statistically had a good game but all I remember are the bone-headed turnovers at critical moments. I'll take a .250 hitter with 150 RBIs than a guy batting .300 with 40 homers and and 90 RBIs. My point? I don't remember... Clutch points are more important, in my opinion. I know one can argue against this position and I will conceded that fact. Just my opinion.

Rio Runner
01-29-2011, 10:49 AM
It's all a beauty is in the eye of the beholder thing. Manny may have had a great game against SFU, but all I remember is the missed freethrows. Another example would be the criticism of Harris- he statistically had a good game but all I remember are the bone-headed turnovers at critical moments. I'll take a .250 hitter with 150 RBIs than a guy batting .300 with 40 homers and and 90 RBIs. My point? I don't remember... Clutch points are more important, in my opinion. I know one can argue against this position and I will conceded that fact. Just my opinion.

Fair enough.

ZagHouse
01-29-2011, 11:14 AM
Last thing someone wants to read is a soccer analogy, but I'm going to make one. If I coached and one of my players missed a penalty kick, will I think about putting him in that situation again--sure. The problem is, most players will go to work immediately to make sure if they are put in that situation that they're more prepared. I'm betting Manny took those missed free throws to heart and went to work on making sure that wouldn't happen again. If Few didn't see him react to those misses and work to better himself, then maybe that's why he sat. We've also heard that Manny doesn't always practice as hard as he should and maybe leading up to the game he wasn't able to pick up the defensive scheme the coaches had planned--I guess speculation is all we have at this point. I do know that Manny can be a game changer (Few knows too), and it made no sense other than a disciplinary thing to have him sit.

When SDSU played BYU, their entire game plan had to be shut down Jimmer--and he still went off for 43.

JPtheBeasta
01-29-2011, 12:15 PM
Last thing someone wants to read is a soccer analogy, but I'm going to make one. If I coached and one of my players missed a penalty kick, will I think about putting him in that situation again--sure. The problem is, most players will go to work immediately to make sure if they are put in that situation that they're more prepared. I'm betting Manny took those missed free throws to heart and went to work on making sure that wouldn't happen again. If Few didn't see him react to those misses and work to better himself, then maybe that's why he sat. We've also heard that Manny doesn't always practice as hard as he should and maybe leading up to the game he wasn't able to pick up the defensive scheme the coaches had planned--I guess speculation is all we have at this point. I do know that Manny can be a game changer (Few knows too), and it made no sense other than a disciplinary thing to have him sit.

When SDSU played BYU, their entire game plan had to be shut down Jimmer--and he still went off for 43.

Good points. I'm sure Morrison gave the WCC the same kind of fits in his day.