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View Full Version : Arop and Keita?



quadcityzag
01-27-2011, 08:52 PM
Can someone please explain to me why they are nonexistent? With 11 minutes left they havent seen the court at all. Nothing aganist Hoff and Carter but they bring nothing to the table. Does it have to do with Manny missing so many FTs down the stretch aganist SF? But he gets offensive boards and shows a lot of emotion I just dont get what Few is doing with the lineups. Keita could have guarded Micky or Matt. Please someone help me with this question please.

ZagMania
01-27-2011, 08:59 PM
Put a lot of pressure on Gray on defense without that pair getting minutes, and now Gray is in foul trouble down the stretch. The guy is injured and he still plays all 40 minutes.

RamZag
01-27-2011, 09:00 PM
What's going on with Arop & Keita

ZagMania
01-27-2011, 09:07 PM
If this lineup with Stockton, Carter, and Meech get it done I'd be shocked. I can't believe they are out there at the same time. At this point I think we need to get Sacre back in.

OZZY
01-27-2011, 09:25 PM
Not only that but KO gets 3 minutes....5 months ago he was playing against France and Spain, now he can't get time on the court against WCC teams

The staff chop and change the players on this team so much I can't see how they are supposed to get any flow.

RamZag
01-27-2011, 09:27 PM
I am so tired of wccccccccccc offfffffficiatttting offffficicianting.

HRZag
01-27-2011, 09:28 PM
Two of our best on ball defenders and McConnell goes off on us and they sit? I am speechless.

madness
01-27-2011, 09:32 PM
Few decided not to go to the NCAA tourney today...I'm beyond pissed

allnet59
01-27-2011, 09:38 PM
Dumb move on Fews part not using manny or Kaita on defense for a portion of this game. Meech got torched at the end. Defense and stupid turnovers once again. What a let down tonight.

tlark420
01-27-2011, 09:49 PM
Not only that but KO gets 3 minutes....5 months ago he was playing against France and Spain, now he can't get time on the court against WCC teams

The staff chop and change the players on this team so much I can't see how they are supposed to get any flow.

AMEN:bishop_smiley:

ZagsObserver
01-27-2011, 09:54 PM
The lineup with Carter, Meech and Stockton was just terrible. There was no flow on offense, and you had Meech driving from the GU bench to the inside and then senselessly handing the ball off to Dower, where he was now (and not before) double-teamed because Meech's man was now on him...just stupid passing for the purpose of passing. Your point guard needs to create and pass with a purpose, not randomly driving and then passing when nothing presents itself.

CaliforniaZaggin'
01-27-2011, 09:56 PM
If Monninghoff isn't shooting an open 3-ball on offense, then he's looking to immediately hand off to somebody. It kills the offense when a wing player can't put the ball on the deck and create shots going to the basket. Give his minutes to Keita or Manny until Monninghoff develops a more well rounded offensive game.

hooter73
01-27-2011, 10:05 PM
had to be a coaching instituted punishment for some minor offense, no way those two would be held from play for anything less.

DixieZag
01-27-2011, 10:14 PM
Abso****inglutely it was some kind of punishment. When Hart comes in for significant minutes to play Defense, and your best rebounder is sitting, your best on the ball defender is sitting - well, I guess we'll never know.

BTW - Anyone think there was merit to the two last fouls picked up by Gray? Sacre charged with a foul clearly committed by Dower to go to the bench with 4? Whatever the reason, it has been decreed that the Zags will get NO benefit of the doubt this year. Seen it two games in a row. I feel aweful for Steven, he played his heart out tonight, he really did.

bballbeachbum
01-27-2011, 10:27 PM
Abso****inglutely it was some kind of punishment. When Hart comes in for significant minutes to play Defense, and your best rebounder is sitting, your best on the ball defender is sitting - well, I guess we'll never know.

BTW - Anyone think there was merit to the two last fouls picked up by Gray? Sacre charged with a foul clearly committed by Dower to go to the bench with 4? Whatever the reason, it has been decreed that the Zags will get NO benefit of the doubt this year. Seen it two games in a row. I feel aweful for Steven, he played his heart out tonight, he really did.

evidently, only a few of us GU fans on this board saw this, Dixie. must be we didn't see

Steven laid it all out. love Steven

rise above

VinnyZag
01-27-2011, 10:29 PM
My guess is that there was some reason those kids didn't play, whether it be injury, illness, disciplinary or something else. We've never in 10 years seen Few just bench kids who have been key contributors like that without there being a good reason.

Nelsonzag
01-27-2011, 11:08 PM
I can't believe Arop didn't play, hands down he is our best on ball defender and rebounder, he brings energy and heart to the team. I am baffled, I agree Few decided we didn't want to go to the tourney tonight

FuManShoes
01-27-2011, 11:19 PM
Of course there is a reason Keita and Manny didn't play tonight, we just don't know what it is. But I am 99% sure it wasn't Few deciding "I don't want to go to the tourney this year." They were either sick, in the dog house, or Few had lost all confidence in them to contribute in this game. While possible, that last one seems the least likely reason, and if it was the case, one could reasonably wonder what the hell happened to the steady eddy, stubborn to a T coach the Zags have been blessed with this decade.

Olynyk is a tougher nut to crack. He committed a pretty stupid foul on a breakaway dunk toward the end of the first half. Was that reason enough to bench him? Was he hurt? Is Few so sick of boneheaded plays that he's instigated a zero-tolerance policy applicable only to some players not named Harris, Gray and Goodson?

sullyzag66
01-27-2011, 11:28 PM
I can't believe Arop didn't play, hands down he is our best on ball defender and rebounder, he brings energy and heart to the team. I am baffled, I agree Few decided we didn't want to go to the tourney tonight
Yeah, all that traveling and such. :rolleyes:

Nelsonzag
01-27-2011, 11:31 PM
At least he hustles and rebounds and creates plays, Mathis M. cant even create his own shot he has to be wide open

bballbeachbum
01-27-2011, 11:35 PM
man, I hope it's because they're sick

NEED both players. and I like them both, too

zagademic
01-27-2011, 11:42 PM
Not to be an alarmist, or anything but heir absence makes no sense whatsoever because they were on the floor before the game, and at least Keita seemed fine. If just one of them had been playing, it would have made a difference. Steven couldn't get a break. What's going on?

75Zag
01-27-2011, 11:51 PM
When key players are mysteriously benched in a key conference game, my twisted little mind thinks back to the cryptic (and I thought at the time somewhat bizarre) BobZag comments a couple weeks ago about the NCAA and Emmert somehow looking to punish the Bulldogs.

Are there eligibility issues? Recruiting issues? Most likely I am just rambling off down a blind alley of paranoia. It would not be the first time. But short of some sort of NCAA investigation (or God forbid another mushroom-type incident), I can't think of another reason to keep healthy players off the floor.

Go Bulldogs! Win in Vegas!

btzag
01-28-2011, 06:29 AM
75 good points, you really do have to wonder...

The thing that blows me away is that nothing is still reported and as far as I can tell the question was not even asked by reporters! You lose your biggest game of the year due in part to the absence of two players and you don't even ask the coach about it? Or don't report his answer? Either way terrible reporting by all involved, meehan is usually better than that. I hope he clears it up this morning in his day after article.

FuManShoes
01-28-2011, 06:38 AM
75 good points, you really do have to wonder...

The thing that blows me away is that nothing is still reported and as far as I can tell the question was not even asked by reporters! You lose your biggest game of the year due in part to the absence of two players and you don't even ask the coach about it? Or don't report his answer? Either way terrible reporting by all involved, meehan is usually better than that. I hope he clears it up this morning in his day after article.

The ESPN announcers didn't say a word about it. Did tbe radio guys? At any rate, I tweeted Meehan asking for an explanation. Also asked if Few ever goes off on the WCC refs.

ZagMania
01-28-2011, 06:42 AM
Sort of off topic, but when it comes to defense can we stop pretending like Meech is a lock down defender? Whenever anyone points out his weaknesses they have to throw in the obligatory line that he plays great defense. McConnell had his way with him last night, he might be a good defender, especially compared to some of our other guards of the past, but he's not great.

cjm720
01-28-2011, 06:48 AM
Really dissapointed in the rotation last night. Just unbelievable...Keita goes from starter to no minutes. I assume Manny's injured because that makese zero sense. Okay, KO made one of the dumbest mistakes I've seen in a while (should have been a tech) and he gets yanked. I'd be scared sh*tless to make a mistake with Few's short leash. Seriously, WTF!!!!!!!!

And what's up with Coach not sitting Gray when he picked up the 4th foul? Few eihter has too much faith or no faith in his players. You cannot ignore his accomplishments...just having a hard time figuring out this year's squad and it starts with the coach.

EVERY GAME COUNTS NOW.

GO ZAGS!!!!

Rio Runner
01-28-2011, 07:16 AM
Okay, KO made one of the dumbest mistakes I've seen in a while (should have been a tech) and he gets yanked. I'd be scared sh*tless to make a mistake with Few's short leash. Seriously, WTF!!!!!!!!

And what's up with Coach not sitting Gray when he picked up the 4th foul? Few eihter has too much faith or no faith in his players. You cannot ignore his accomplishments...just having a hard time figuring out this year's squad and it starts with the coach.

EVERY GAME COUNTS NOW.

GO ZAGS!!!!

I too was puzzled that Few pulled Olynyk. But I disagree that it was a dumb foul. Steven Gray threw the ball directly to Rob Jones, and Olynyk sprinted down court and tried to commit an aggressive foul to prevent the dunk. Gray was the one who made the bonehead play, and he was the one who should have been yanked, not Olynyk. But, again, no matter how awful Gray plays, Few just won't sit him.

ZagNut08
01-28-2011, 07:42 AM
Reminded me of the rotations at the beggining of the year when we got slaughtered in OOC.

The use of Mike Hart this season is baffling to me.

zagsballer
01-28-2011, 07:42 AM
People on this board complain when Mark plays an 11 man rotation.

Now you all whine we he plays an 8 man rotation (plus Hart for a few stops).

It worked last night! We lost by a stupid buzzer beater against a good team!!!! Saint Mary's is good, we had them beat! Maybe give Mark some credit for getting us to that point.

btzag
01-28-2011, 07:52 AM
????

If these were pm posts I would blame them on alcoholic beverages...but its not.

Let's just restate this clearly for those who don't get it. Few did not shorten his rotation. Period. In your biggest game of the year you do not experiment.

Something else is going on, we just do not know what it is. Best case would be sickness but it could be discipline or eligibility issues. I have zero inside info but any rational fan should be able to figure this out.

ZagMania
01-28-2011, 08:00 AM
I agree that there has to be a reason why Keita and Arop both didn't play that we just haven't been told yet, the good question is how has the media not asked it yet.

In regards to KO, I'm fine with his minutes considering he initially got yanked by the bonehead foul then Dower blew up and rightfully took his minutes.

ZagNut08
01-28-2011, 08:12 AM
Not complaining, just perplexed.

Maybe it is because in that group of mathis, mathis, hart, arop, etc nobody has claimed the spot with consistent play. But it is interesting how one game it is Hart's turn, another night keita, etc.

UberZagFan
01-28-2011, 10:43 AM
Yeah, definitely more to it than Few shortening the rotation. If he thought now was the time to shorten the rotation, he wouldn't be going with a lineup of Meech, Stock, and Carter. Or at least, Uber hopes not.

Funny how threads about Keita and Arop are disappearing off this board....

FuManShoes
01-28-2011, 10:55 AM
Kinda lame reporting since he didn't ask followups of Few, but this is what he says:


http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2011/jan/28/day-after-saint-marys/

—Gonzaga made another change to the starting lineup, inserting Mathis Mönninghoff over Mathis Keita or Manny Arop. The three have basically split that starting spot all season, so that wasn’t a big surprise. The surprise was that neither Keita nor Arop played in the game, even with Gray in foul trouble for much of the second half. It was Arop’s first DNP of the season and Keita’s first since Baylor on Dec. 18.

It was Mönninghoff’s first start since Lafayette on Dec. 29. I’m guessing the thinking was to get another perimeter shooter (not Keita’s specialty) on the floor against a defense that might try to pack inside on Sacre and Harris. Probably the same reason Mönninghoff came in late (2:40-ish remaining) with the Gaels determined not to let Sacre operate one-on-one inside at crunch time.

In my rush after the game, I forgot to ask Few about Arop and Keita, but I checked this morning and was told it was strictly a coaches’ decision. Both players are healthy.

cjm720
01-28-2011, 11:09 AM
Thanks for posting that Fu. Very very dissapointed in Coach...cannot comprehend it frankly.

Therunner
01-28-2011, 11:21 AM
Without a doubt, our two most exciting, explosive, defensive minded, game-changing players rode the bench last night in the biggest game of our season.

For example, we would NOT have beaten Marquette w/o Arop's play, plus he single-handidly kept us in the Notre Dame game; we may have lost to Wake on the road if Keita wouldn't have shown up.

Lastly, isn't Arop our starting "3" and/or 6th man most games?! To make matters worse, he was coming off a pretty solid game vs USF too...6pts, 5rebs, 2assists (save for last min FTs).

A brief explanation is warranted at this juncture, isn't it?

bigparb
01-28-2011, 11:38 AM
"I checked this morning and was told it was strictly a coaches’ decision. Both players are healthy."

without knowing their status I chose to hold off having an opinion, but now that we know there was not a health or disciplinary reason for sitting these guys I will officially say that Few's decision is OUTRAGEOUS and TERRIBLE.....

He got out-coached and out-stategized (are those different things?) by Bennett....period.

cjm720
01-28-2011, 11:48 AM
"I checked this morning and was told it was strictly a coaches’ decision. Both players are healthy."

without knowing their status I chose to hold off having an opinion, but now that we know there was not a health or disciplinary reason for sitting these guys I will officially say that Few's decision is OUTRAGEOUS and TERRIBLE.....

He got out-coached and out-stategized (are those different things?) by Bennett....period.

Meeham only mentioned the players' health, nothing in regard to discipline, so there could be something there. IF NOT, my loyalty to Few has taken a dip :(

sullyzag66
01-28-2011, 11:49 AM
"I checked this morning and was told it was strictly a coaches’ decision. Both players are healthy."

without knowing their status I chose to hold off having an opinion, but now that we know there was not a health or disciplinary reason for sitting these guys I will officially say that Few's decision is OUTRAGEOUS and TERRIBLE.....

He got out-coached and out-stategized (are those different things?) by Bennett....period.
"Coaches' decision" does not rule out disciplinary reasons, but I suspect we may never know.

ZagMania
01-28-2011, 11:53 AM
Just really doesn't make sense to not play Arop at all after USF unless you want to shatter his confidence. Besides the missed FTs he was battling, hell two of those free throws were only caused by drawing the foul from him fighting so well for an offensive rebound.

Mantua
01-28-2011, 01:19 PM
If this was a disciplinary decision, it's still troubling. Did Few think we could win without them?

zagzilla
01-28-2011, 01:26 PM
Hard to believe Few would bench Arop as punishment for missing those FT's. However, the psychological impact of benching him has to be considered if you're the coach.

You want to protect your players' confidence so that next time they are in that situation, they do better.

ZZ

UberZagFan
01-28-2011, 01:45 PM
Kinda lame reporting since he didn't ask followups of Few, but this is what he says:



It was Mönninghoff’s first start since Lafayette on Dec. 29. I’m guessing the thinking was to get another perimeter shooter (not Keita’s specialty) on the floor against a defense that might try to pack inside on Sacre and Harris. Probably the same reason Mönninghoff came in late (2:40-ish remaining) with the Gaels determined not to let Sacre operate one-on-one inside at crunch time.

Really? Then that explains all the 3s MM threw up in the last few minutes of the game.

Zag 77
01-28-2011, 09:06 PM
1.) Olynyk commits a dumb$hit foul on a guy who has a breakaway to the basket and gives him an "and one." Not the first time. When will he learn not to do that????? He was not up to playing the defense we needed against SMC, and frankly Dower had break out game on offense. Keeping Olynyk out: justified.


2.) Arop is inconsistent on offense. Good on rebounding, but Sacre, Harris and Dower were doing fine in that department. Arop could not make a free throw to save his life against USF just 5 days previous, going 1-6 in crunch time. In a close game when free throws count, that is a BIG consideration. Keeping Arop out: justified.


3.) Keita is a freshman, and just starting to get the feel of our offense. Gray was needed, and Keita is not comparable to Gray in terms of offensive production. After Gray fouled out, we needed offense. Carter (older player) was probably a better choice in that department, and in fact did make add some key points. Keeping Keita out: justified.

mgadfly
01-28-2011, 11:43 PM
1.) Olynyk commits a dumb$hit foul on a guy who has a breakaway to the basket and gives him an "and one." Not the first time. When will he learn not to do that????? He was not up to playing the defense we needed against SMC, and frankly Dower had break out game on offense. Keeping Olynyk out: justified.


2.) Arop is inconsistent on offense. Good on rebounding, but Sacre, Harris and Dower were doing fine in that department. Arop could not make a free throw to save his life against USF just 5 days previous, going 1-6 in crunch time. In a close game when free throws count, that is a BIG consideration. Keeping Arop out: justified.


3.) Keita is a freshman, and just starting to get the feel of our offense. Gray was needed, and Keita is not comparable to Gray in terms of offensive production. After Gray fouled out, we needed offense. Carter (older player) was probably a better choice in that department, and in fact did make add some key points. Keeping Keita out: justified.

When you are playing significant minutes without your best defensive guard (SG) against a team whose guards are lighting you up, it is a stretch to claim that it was a better idea to have two walkons, Meech and Marquis on the floor. Not playing Arop down the stretch because of free throw shooting concerns may be justified, but not playing him at all (to say, help keep SG out of foul trouble) isn't unless there was a discipline issue. Also, I think Keita has looked just as fluid as Carter on offense and has been much superior on defense, so I'm not sure how it is justified except that Carter is older. As for Olynyk I thought the foul was fine (he made a hard foul going for the ball after SG turned it over trying to prevent a dunk -- the guy just finished strong) but with Dower playing so well no one should complain about Olynyk's minutes in the game.

Did the coaches make dramatic changes to the depth chart after losing two road games? (moving Keita and Arop from 5th and 6th man to 11th and 12th man)

Did the coaches have a non-basketball reason for not playing Keita or Arop?

Did the coaches think that sitting two of their better perimeter defenders against a team with great guards was a good situational decision?

I don't know the answer, but maybe the game against San Diego will give us a little more insight.

bigblahla
01-29-2011, 06:24 AM
[B] Maybe give Mark some credit for getting us to that point.

Are we starting to see the effect of "The Peter Principle"?

Coach didn't do this by himself and there was a lot of luck involved.

Foul shots by Mallon, 3 by PMac, 3 by Knight, missed layup by LMU, foul by Angley, collapse by SCU. Each one of these directly helped win 10 consecutive conference titles. Anybody add any more?

Coach has done a great job but he doesn't get a free pass he is just as responsible as anyone and more so because he is head coach.

The short leash is killing us, I'd rather lose and have the fellas get it out of their systems on the floor while learning to let the game come to them than have them play tentatively looking over their shoulder for the hook.

Looking at it from the outside it seems victories have become more important than developing players which I always thought was our main strength.

Coach looks lost on the sidelines to me, no answers, no confidence, no trust in his own players except for Sacre and Gray, who seems to have lost the love of the game. Like it yes but in my mind the fire burning in McConnell's gut doesn't exist any longer in Steven Gray and I doubt he will play pro ball anywhere and if that's the case good for Steven because for some it is just a game not a career and I believe his trip to Africa had a profound change on him.

Around our house Steven is referred to as Sunshine although I've never met him he reminds me of a lot of people I met hanging out at GU in the late 60's....and there's nothing wrong with that.

Just my opinion.

Go!! Zags!!!

cjm720
01-31-2011, 09:43 AM
So, I've been offline a bit since Thursday but did watch the game on Saturday.

Are we to assume that Arop and Keita simply didn't see the floor because a coaches decision, or has some other reason surfaced (that I missed)?

madness
01-31-2011, 11:19 AM
Still no word...They both played (albeit sparingly in a blowout) against USD. Word is that before Keita went in the game Saturday he was moved between two coaches on the bench. They proceeded to give him a few minutes of "talking to" where he just nodded, then they put him in the game.

From this info, I'm guessing it was a team rules infraction for both, but Keita must have been the worse of the two.

ALERT: This is only speculation!!!!!!!!!!!! I would love to know the facts if anyone has them. I firmly believe we need both players to play significant minutes the rest of the season to win out...In Every game.

former1dog
01-31-2011, 11:42 AM
Not trying to make excuses or take away from SMC's performance last week, but I really do think that with Arop and especially Keita playing against SMC, we could have won.

U Zig, I Zag
01-31-2011, 12:11 PM
Sometimes the simplest answer is the likely answer:

You see the Over Nights? We are getting crushed by Jersey Shore re-runs. The broadcasts should start out with two players bickering and then pushing the camera out of their faces. Keita should yell at Rob, 'I will show you a real baguette!'. Maybe they add a 'confessional booth' in the tunnel. Few needs to create drama to keep us guessing.

In my opinion there might have been some minor infraction or team policy issue COUPLED with match-ups. They both seemed content on the bench, rooting for the team against SMC.

Maybe we will unleash the Keita on an unsuspecting SMC team at the end of the month.

bballbeachbum
01-31-2011, 07:36 PM
Not trying to make excuses or take away from SMC's performance last week, but I really do think that with Arop and especially Keita playing against SMC, we could have won.

they must have earned whatever has happened. hope it's something that's helped them learn, too.

Chiles coming up. would like to see these two (and all of course) represent Thursday night if they get an opportunity