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View Full Version : New Formula for Beating the Zags in Conf Play



Virginia Zags Fan
01-22-2011, 06:55 PM
I think it is now pretty obvious the script that is unfolding. Spread the floor, drive, hope for any contact at all and get the foul. Kind of like the old NFL. Throw the ball up and hope for a Pass Interference call. I am sorry, but that is the only way you are going to beat the Zags consistently in conference play. Sadly, a physical team like LMU will end up playing better in non-conference, but will also be penalized on the road as well.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what the WCC director of officiating is looking for. The sad part is it rewards teams that get pummeled when playing quality competition in the non-conference. If we had Big 10, Big 12, ACC, SCC refs tonight, it would have been a much more physical game and a lot of the ticky tack would not have been called. SMC found that out today.

I think Coach Few has recruited guys to play on the national stage. I think the refs are hell bent on keeping the WCC a local melodrama.

Nevtelen
01-22-2011, 07:52 PM
I
Unfortunately, this is exactly what the WCC director of officiating is looking for. The sad part is it rewards teams that get pummeled when playing quality competition in the non-conference. If we had Big 10, Big 12, ACC, SCC refs tonight, it would have been a much more physical game and a lot of the ticky tack would not have been called. SMC found that out today.

I think Coach Few has recruited guys to play on the national stage. I think the refs are hell bent on keeping the WCC a local melodrama.

THIS is exactly what the problem is. If we were just a mid-major conference with no hope of doing damage in the NCAAs, this wouldn't be much of an issue. If this conference wants to have teams that are competitive on a national stage, it better officiate like it and not call a foul every time a player looks like they might be thinking of possibly asking their friend to commit a foul a few possessions later. What a crock.

ronh_pm
01-22-2011, 07:52 PM
I think it is now pretty obvious the script that is unfolding. Spread the floor, drive, hope for any contact at all and get the foul. Kind of like the old NFL. Throw the ball up and hope for a Pass Interference call. I am sorry, but that is the only way you are going to beat the Zags consistently in conference play. Sadly, a physical team like LMU will end up playing better in non-conference, but will also be penalized on the road as well.

Unfortunately, this is exactly what the WCC director of officiating is looking for. The sad part is it rewards teams that get pummeled when playing quality competition in the non-conference. If we had Big 10, Big 12, ACC, SCC refs tonight, it would have been a much more physical game and a lot of the ticky tack would not have been called. SMC found that out today.

I think Coach Few has recruited guys to play on the national stage. I think the refs are hell bent on keeping the WCC a local melodrama.

I dont know a thing about political agendas but I sure enjoyed the OSU/ILL and even the TEX/KU games a whole lot more than this one tonight.

There were more calls anticipating a foul that just never ended occuring in this game than there were actual fouls...was painful to watch no matter who you were rooting for.

Terrifteacher
01-22-2011, 08:25 PM
The WCC had better figure out a way to get better officials. There is way too much inconsistency in the officiating. That being said I hope some other posters here on the boards stop bashing Coach Few. He is a great man and a winning coach. The Zags are still a quality team and could still win the WCC Championship and make some noise in the NCAAs. Don't give up on them just because of two league losses this weekend!!

DixieZag
01-22-2011, 08:34 PM
I swear Walters had it figured out at the end!!!

How else do you explain holding the ball during a tied game until there are 8 seconds on the shot clock????? The announcers sounded confused, in re-watching it, it was brilliant strategy. He could see that they could not score on us after the 3 ball bricked in at ONE on the clock; so he decided to hold and drive, KNOWING that the refs were going to bail him out and that is exactly what they did, on SG's uniform "foul" and the despicable call on Hoff - - he incorporated the officiating into the strategy.

SCU was the hardest game to watch, a whistle every 50 seconds. USF with the "thin-skinned" technicals, allowed the refs to control how the game was played at the end. Notice that Rob was not camped on the line all night, though he was just as active underneath, all those misses may have had something to do with bodies slamming all over. Steven took it to the hole in OT and went flying by the basket, I didn't think there was hard contact, but definitely harder than HE made on the call against him.

Watch OT again, the only way the Dons could score was off the backboard from the baseline and going to the line. And Walters KNEW he would get there.

Nevtelen
01-22-2011, 08:41 PM
I swear Walters had it figured out at the end!!!

How else do you explain holding the ball during a tied game until there are 8 seconds on the shot clock????? The announcers sounded confused, in re-watching it, it was brilliant strategy. He could see that they could not score on us after the 3 ball bricked in at ONE on the clock; so he decided to hold and drive, KNOWING that the refs were going to bail him out and that is exactly what they did, on SG's uniform "foul" and the despicable call on Hoff - - he incorporated the officiating into the strategy.

SCU was the hardest game to watch, a whistle every 50 seconds. USF with the "thin-skinned" technicals, allowed the refs to control how the game was played at the end. Notice that Rob was not camped on the line all night, though he was just as active underneath, all those misses may have had something to do with bodies slamming all over. Steven took it to the hole in OT and went flying by the basket, I didn't think there was hard contact, but definitely harder than HE made on the call against him.

Watch OT again, the only way the Dons could score was off the backboard from the baseline and going to the line. And Walters KNEW he would get there.

I think you're exactly right. I can't fault Walters for it; he called it correctly. the refs were absolute idiots the entire game.

Nevtelen
01-22-2011, 08:53 PM
I would, however, like to give USF much bigger props for their OOC sched than SCU. SCU played a complete crapfest of OOC teams and lost to a bunch of them because they're a bad team. USF played some quite good teams and lost to most of them (except Colo) because they're pretty good teams, and then clearly learned something from the experience. Walters is the best thing that has happened to that program in a long time.

roxdoc
01-22-2011, 09:26 PM
Despite the highly questionable officiating I personally think USF was the better team tonight and deserves to be #2 in the league. We need to come to grips with the fact that we are just not a very good TEAM this year for whatever the reason - and I think there are a number of them. IMHO this is not because of league parity. We need to come to grips with this, and just enjoy the rest of the season - wins and losses.

zag buddy
01-22-2011, 10:08 PM
Why doesn't some one in the know post a link where we can complain to where it will do some good.

Baldwinzag
01-22-2011, 11:17 PM
after tonight's game, just hack-a-Zag since we shot an abysmal 15-27 (55%) from the FT line tonight. Heck, there are several teams in the country who would shoot a better % from the 3pt line, St Mary's included...

Nevtelen
01-23-2011, 12:56 AM
Despite the highly questionable officiating I personally think USF was the better team tonight and deserves to be #2 in the league. We need to come to grips with the fact that we are just not a very good TEAM this year for whatever the reason - and I think there are a number of them. IMHO this is not because of league parity. We need to come to grips with this, and just enjoy the rest of the season - wins and losses.

USF frankly probably isn't even the 3rd best team in the conference. Sure, they won 2 at home in the last week. Good for them. Let's see what happens when they go on the road and/or get some refs who don't call the entire game their way. There's a reason why we and Portland have MUCH better OOC records than they do and it's not luck. I think Walters has done a lot to improve the program and I think the Dons are headed in the right direction. But they're FAR from #2 in the conference and I think the rest of the season will eventually show that to be true.

NEC26
01-23-2011, 07:37 AM
USF frankly probably isn't even the 3rd best team in the conference. Sure, they won 2 at home in the last week. Good for them. Let's see what happens when they go on the road and/or get some refs who don't call the entire game their way. There's a reason why we and Portland have MUCH better OOC records than they do and it's not luck. I think Walters has done a lot to improve the program and I think the Dons are headed in the right direction. But they're FAR from #2 in the conference and I think the rest of the season will eventually show that to be true.

Yep, this season will play out and SMC, GU, and I believe Portland will be the top three. Maybe USF gets third but I doubt it.

UberZagFan
01-23-2011, 11:44 AM
Yeah, you could go with that formula, or the one where you shoot a ton of threes and make 40% plus, or the one where you outboard GU on the O glass and force a bunch of turnovers, or. . .

EngineerZag
01-23-2011, 07:51 PM
There were a lot of anticipation calls. Like the one where the kid pulls back for a fadeaway post shot, isn't even touched let alone fouled, and there's a phantom AND-1 on the play. Completely inexcusable.

NEC26
01-23-2011, 07:57 PM
Have you watched an NBA game recently? Or Big East or Big 12 or ACC or anything like that?

On what level do you not see bad calls? Seriously... tell me that last time you watched a basketball game where you didn't see a handful of questionable/bad calls. It's part of the game... you'd think people would realize that at this point.

Furthermore... complaining about And-1's is kind of silly. If it wasn't a foul, fine, but the basket would still count. The And-1 on Doolin at the end made absolutely difference, because HE STILL MADE THE SHOT.

A whistle was blown and two steps later he shot. Think that might make a difference in what the defender is doing during that time? Besides a two point lead is far different than a three point lead.

Edited to add: Hey Davy Zag any chance you go by Purple Pride on a certain other board?

NEC26
01-23-2011, 08:16 PM
"Excuses, excuses, excuses... good teams win games. The Zags have been doing it for over a decade in the WCC. But the Zags have now lost 10 WCC games over the past five seasons. Which is impressive, of course, but goes to show that the conference has improved, and all those losses are not just because of refs and sold out crowds and whatever other excuse."

I agree wholeheartedly good teams overcome difficulty's and as far as I'm concerned your welcome here. Should be a place were dialogue is welcome.

cjm720
01-24-2011, 11:53 AM
Our players and coaches need to adapt...simple as that. Go Zags!!!

Once and Future Zag
01-24-2011, 12:58 PM
Our players and coaches need to adapt...simple as that. Go Zags!!!

How would you suggest Mönninghoff not draw the foul where the USF player elbowed Hoff in the side as he ran around him?

cjm720
01-24-2011, 01:20 PM
How would you suggest Mönninghoff not draw the foul where the USF player elbowed Hoff in the side as he ran around him?

The game is 40 minutes. It's easy to isolate a certain play but the reality of it is not one play or call caused the loss. I do see your point though.

Once and Future Zag
01-24-2011, 01:51 PM
The game is 40 minutes. It's easy to isolate a certain play but the reality of it is not one play or call caused the loss. I do see your point though.

Exactly - how do you play a 40 minute game when you don't know what's going to be called a foul or not, from possession to possession? How do you gauge on how intensely to defend your man - if you may get called at any given time for incidental (or no) contact, or if you have a green light to play the way you've trained for 15 years?

When you literally have NO idea what will trigger a whistle - how does a team and coach deal with it?

It's analogous to bullying. The net effect of a million little slights (or, seemingly-arbitrary foul calling in this case) - none of which are individually a "big deal" end up being a huge black cloud from the total effect.