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bullzag23
01-19-2011, 01:32 PM
Look who's at #5 on the list:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/01/19/mailbag.sleepers/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin


5. Gonzaga: The Bulldogs tend to disappoint those of us who wait expectantly every year for that big March breakthrough, but maybe this is their year. If nothing else, their nonconference schedule has toughened them more than any other team on this list. Point guard Demetri Goodson will never be the scorer this team needs him to be, but if Elias Harris can be a more consistent third wheel to Steven Gray and Robert Sacre, then the Zags will be a tough out.

SWZag
01-19-2011, 01:52 PM
5. Gonzaga: The Bulldogs tend to disappoint those of us who wait expectantly every year for that big March breakthrough, but maybe this is their year. If nothing else, their nonconference schedule has toughened them more than any other team on this list. Point guard Demetri Goodson will never be the scorer this team needs him to be, but if Elias Harris can be a more consistent third wheel to Steven Gray and Robert Sacre, then the Zags will be a tough out.

Do we really need Goodson to be a scorer? Don't want to open up a can of worms again, but I think the impression around the country is that GU has depending previously on high-scoring (point) guards, and they assume we must have that. I don't think we need it with this team.

SWZag

gamagin
01-19-2011, 01:58 PM
Look who's at #5 on the list:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/seth_davis/01/19/mailbag.sleepers/index.html?xid=cnnbin&hpt=Sbin



missed the real story:the emergence of RS.

For the first time in a long time GU is winning from the post. Inside out. RS is the reason.

EH seems to be emerging as healthy, SG has regained his form after nursing a bum back. DG, who looked great at times on defense, has begun to shoot and at least 7 other developing role players can be seen in any given game contributing important energy, attitude & depth to this young Zag team.

zagzilla
01-19-2011, 02:43 PM
"...but if Elias Harris can be a more consistent third wheel to Steven Gray and Robert Sacre, then the Zags will be a tough out."

Who'd a thunk Harris would be the 3rd of the Zags Big 3 when the season started? Not that I disagree with that sentiment but as gamagin says the real story is that Sacre and Harris have switched places on the pecking order.

The fact that we have 3 All America caliber players this year is why we will be a tough out. Previous Zag teams have had 2 but I can't recall a team with a top 3 as good as these.

Agree?

ZZ

CaliforniaZaggin'
01-19-2011, 02:55 PM
Is it just me, or does that whole blurb from Seth Davis seem like a back-handed compliment?

Gufan
01-19-2011, 02:58 PM
[QUOTE=

The fact that we have 3 All America caliber players this year is why we will be a tough out. Previous Zag teams have had 2 but I can't recall a team with a top 3 as good as these.

Agree?

ZZ[/QUOTE]

Top 3 is up for debate, but I still like this top 6

Pargo, Bouldin, Micah, Josh, Daye, Gray

JohnOGU
01-19-2011, 03:01 PM
Elias is the only one of those three with a killer instinct. He's the only one on the team who gets visibly pissed off and vocal, and tries to do something about it when things arent going our way. Gets me pumped just watching him.

If we can get Sacre and Gray to that level, we'd be incredibly dangerous.

CDC84
01-19-2011, 03:13 PM
I'm trying to understand how being a "tough out" means you are a sleeper title contender.

bullzag23
01-19-2011, 03:17 PM
"...but if Elias Harris can be a more consistent third wheel to Steven Gray and Robert Sacre, then the Zags will be a tough out."

Who'd a thunk Harris would be the 3rd of the Zags Big 3 when the season started? Not that I disagree with that sentiment but as gamagin says the real story is that Sacre and Harris have switched places on the pecking order.

The fact that we have 3 All America caliber players this year is why we will be a tough out. Previous Zag teams have had 2 but I can't recall a team with a top 3 as good as these.

Agree?

ZZ

GU's best top 3? IMO there's no contest:
Morrison
Batista
Raivio

DCZag
01-19-2011, 03:26 PM
I agree with JohnO - I want to see Rob get PO'd and try to slam it down every time he gets the rock in the post. Rip a couple of arms off when someone tries to get HIS rebound.

That said - he has come a long way from the first game and the netire team is gellin' at the right time

gamagin
01-19-2011, 03:34 PM
I agree with JohnO - I want to see Rob get PO'd and try to slam it down every time he gets the rock in the post. Rip a couple of arms off when someone tries to get HIS rebound.

That said - he has come a long way from the first game and the netire team is gellin' at the right time

most of last season we would watch RS as he watched from the bench w/too many fouls. He has changed that to scoring vis a vis stuffs, keeping the ball high and putting it back, shooting from 5-10 feet and drawing about 10 free shots per game and making 80% of them.

All of this has to do with his playing within himself and under control. It is so frutstrating to others that he gets even more f.t.'s. If he is pulled out of his new game, you might get the satisfaction of a couple of clubbings, but it would cost us and he likely would be sitting more, and we'd be scrambling to adjust.

Like last season. No thanks.

Hoopaholic
01-19-2011, 03:36 PM
basketball isnt large enough to have 4 or 5 scorers on the team

role players are critical to a long succesful season. We have seen various different players step in when one of the BIG 3 have an off night making us very dangerous

The big 3 are UNIQUE in that each brings a skill set from a different angle of the court, which means other teams have difficulty trying to defend all three. Many teams have defenders to neutralize 2 good scoring guards (Zags perfect example), many teams may have a guard and wing defender to neutralize stud players but very very few teams have the abilit to take away a stud shooting guard, stud wing/post player and a big post player creating serious defensive issues for other teams.

Then you throw in a pure spot up shooter in MM who can bust a zone, KEITA who can run the court like a gazelle or Arop who brings pure athleticism to the team or Oly who can play 3,4, or 5 slot...you have the composite makeup of a very good team

Pleasant Peninsula
01-19-2011, 04:16 PM
GU's best top 3? IMO there's no contest:
Morrison
Batista
Raivio

Not that I necessarily disagree, but it is worth noting that all three of those players had negative value on the defensive end. Their positives on the offensive side outweighed those to be sure, and maybe even enough for their overall value to be higher than any other trio, but their extreme defensive shortcomings ought to be noted. That team had the highest offensive efficiency numbers in the nation; and a defense rated near 150.

23dpg
01-19-2011, 04:27 PM
The fact that we have 3 All America caliber players this year is why we will be a tough out. Previous Zag teams have had 2 but I can't recall a team with a top 3 as good as these.

Agree?

I love our players as much as anyone, but no, I don't agree. I don't think they are All American type players. They are all very good, but I doubt any will land on even a 4th AA team (unless Gonzaga has a deep run in the tourney)

How about this top 3.
TEAM GP MIN FG FGA FTM FTA 3PM 3PA PTS OFF DEF TOT AST TO STL BLK PF

Turiaf 814 151 291 212 279 1 6 515 77 129 206 19 64 20 49 10
Stepp 1027 140 322 85 100 77 202 442 24 114 138 207 90 36 4 55
Morrison 619 133 251 60 82 17 55 343 34 95 129 43 35 11 8 37

FuManShoes
01-19-2011, 04:39 PM
I'm not seeing it - yet. With the exception of Rob, the Zags don't get to the line enough. They don't force enough turnovers. They give up too many threes. They don't finish well enough at the rim (or seem prone to stone hands) and they turn the ball over too much. That's not to say they don't do a lot of things well - rebounding, interior D, spreading the wealth, converting FTs, etc. I just don't see them being able to knock off one let alone 6 great teams until they shore up some things.

http://www.kenpom.com/team.php?team=Gonzaga

Bogozags
01-19-2011, 06:13 PM
I'm not seeing it - yet. With the exception of Rob, the Zags don't get to the line enough. They don't force enough turnovers. They give up too many threes. They don't finish well enough at the rim (or seem prone to stone hands) and they turn the ball over too much. That's not to say they don't do a lot of things well - rebounding, interior D, spreading the wealth, converting FTs, etc. I just don't see them being able to knock off one let alone 6 great teams until they shore up some things.

http://www.kenpom.com/team.php?team=Gonzaga

FU no question about it...you are right on! We do so many things well but we're just not consistent...we have a lot of work to do over the next six-seven weeks and if they expect to go deep, then that defensive intensity needs to be a staple and our rebounding had better improve, as we give up too many offensive rebounds.

This team can be so very good

rijman
01-19-2011, 06:26 PM
I'm not seeing it - yet. With the exception of Rob, the Zags don't get to the line enough. They don't force enough turnovers. They give up too many threes. They don't finish well enough at the rim (or seem prone to stone hands) and they turn the ball over too much. That's not to say they don't do a lot of things well - rebounding, interior D, spreading the wealth, converting FTs, etc. I just don't see them being able to knock off one let alone 6 great teams until they shore up some things.

http://www.kenpom.com/team.php?team=GonzagaThanks for the Kenpom ratings, good stuff. St. Mary's is rated higher than San Diego St? The Aztecs are higher rated in the polls, undefeated AND beat St. Mary's 69-55 on 12/1/10. Maybe the ratings are based on when they played the games rather than the current ratings although if that is the case I would expect K St and Baylor to have higher ratings when we played them.

MDABE80
01-19-2011, 07:08 PM
I've pretty much given up on Pomeroy's manipulated outscomes. It is very good if one evaluated the teams that win lots....even I know that if Duke wins lots, they're very very good.

As far a Peninsula's comment above......forget the slam on defense. Batista was among the best defenders and rebounds we've had in the low block ever!.

Morrison simply didn't play defense and was a ball hog......to the detriment of his teammates. Back then Few didn't have a choice....lose 25 pts per game if you sit him....or make 25 pts and lose any hope of defense from Adam.
Derek didn't play bad defense at all. Pretty much average...but not "bad".

Revisionist history is one thing......

FuManShoes
01-19-2011, 07:41 PM
Yeah, I post the link to Pomeroy not because I trust the predictions but because of the statistical rankings. Year in and year out teams that win it all are ranked in the top 10 in offensive or defensive efficiency or both. The Zags are in the 40s.

AK457
01-19-2011, 08:12 PM
Gotta respectfully disagree with the describing anyone on this team as AA quality (though I think Gonzaga has some awesome players and is a great team). I've been also following Arizona this year and if anyone wants to see what an AA player looks like, I'd suggest watching Derrick Williams.

RenoZag
01-19-2011, 08:24 PM
Is it just me, or does that whole blurb from Seth Davis seem like a back-handed compliment?

Davis is one of those hybrid print/TV guys that starts to wear on you after three or four seasons. . .

MDABE80
01-19-2011, 08:44 PM
AK...he's the best of the best. AA doesn't describe him adequately. Just an unexpected star is a season withput many bright spots.

AA is as AA does. RS's the closest. He's improved THAT much. Steven...well he's got lots of work to do and I hope he gets it done.

EH is a bit of a comedown...he's like us..disappointing compared to what was predicted for both. Not sure what has happened outside of the weight gain. He did nice numbers the past game but he did it quietly....and didn't make a splash.. Most thought he was no less than 2nd team AA...he's far from that now.

Those three kids should be tearing it up. They win nowadays but not with the overwhelming force many thought they would. Rob's fine and has improved but he needs help down low. He cannot do it all when other teams double him and beat him up every game with guys 6 ft 9 in and up. He'd look a lot better if we had help so 2 or 3 guys weren't hanging all over him.

Steven's wonderful defense has sorta gone on vacation. We know he can be tough as nails but he hasn't been what he was last year.....not sure what to think except that if he gets interested, he can play D.

All 3 talent galore. All 3 have AA talent. Only 1 (the one that wasn't supposed to) has stepped up. We need the other 2 to win some big big games..in the NCAA's especially. C'mon kids.......git r done would ya!

Zag4Hire
01-19-2011, 09:01 PM
Nice evolution of GU for 2010-2011. Get picked by several pundits to not only make FF but win championship, be an early season disappointment despite brutal non-conference, and now the trendy sleeper to go deep or win it all.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Hey who cares really? We don't even know seeding let alone how the regular season is going to end up. Just win one game at a time and GU will be fine.

bballbeachbum
01-19-2011, 09:48 PM
Nice evolution of GU for 2010-2011. Get picked by several pundits to not only make FF but win championship, be an early season disappointment despite brutal non-conference, and now the trendy sleeper to go deep or win it all.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. Hey who cares really? We don't even know seeding let alone how the regular season is going to end up. Just win one game at a time and GU will be fine.

yep, that's what I see. sure hope no one's listening to this jive and takes it for what it is...hype

best to just keep grinding, focus on getting better and better and better

NovaZag
01-19-2011, 11:07 PM
If the Zags ever win the NCAA tourney, I think GU should give alums full remission on their student loans. It's a rule I just made up.

HillBillyZag
01-20-2011, 08:40 AM
Perhaps you're right , but it would be nice to have four or five guys who can go off for twenty on a given night . I think we are headed in that direction with our bench strength .

primal23
01-20-2011, 08:58 AM
If the Zags ever win the NCAA tourney, I think GU should give alums full remission on their student loans. It's a rule I just made up.

Sounds good to me! Especially those that were there during the start of the decade of excellence!!! :o (I remember walking through the basement of the admin building during late classes and looking at all the sports pages posted about the EE run. Hell of a lot of fun to be a student there at that point.