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EuroZag2010
01-18-2011, 11:03 AM
Q: Who of the mid majors can be a butler repeat
A: Elmore (sp?) I still believe Gonzaga can do it, they have been on a roll- with Harris healthy Robert playing good and Steven
Adrian Branch - agreed
A: unknown sports anyalst ( sean farnehm) ?don't sleep on St marys they are good abs have a great FG % ...
Jay Bilas responds: you win with post players ...

Drew
01-18-2011, 11:13 AM
This needs a 'like' button. I don't have anything else to add.

EuroZag2010
01-18-2011, 11:15 AM
Thanks! That's the best I could do =]

U Zig, I Zag
01-18-2011, 11:51 AM
Good to hear. Duke lost because of post play against FSU. They just seemed overmatched and that put all the pressure on Nolan. Having Irving would have helped (guard play matters still).
:)

HillBillyZag
01-18-2011, 02:16 PM
U & I Z&Z hit it right on the head , but what happended to the Plumleys > Both of those kids can board , they must have let themselves get pushed around ?

FuManShoes
01-18-2011, 03:47 PM
I thought guard play and defense win games.

dazags
01-18-2011, 04:15 PM
I thought whoever scores the most points wins the game.

zagray
01-18-2011, 04:43 PM
It's tough to win six games against elite competition chucking up threes, great defense will take the pressure off a less then steller shooting night. A balenced team that can play successfully against different styles has the best chance for a six game run. St. Mary's just does not have the parts! The Zag's have a lot more potential with continued growth.

LongIslandZagFan
01-18-2011, 06:18 PM
However... the "experts' mispelled Steven's name as Grey instead of Gray on the promo for the SCU game on Thursday while I was watching Tenn-UGA. I actually had to hit the rewind button as I could not believe I saw it correctly.

:enraged:

webspinnre
01-18-2011, 08:20 PM
I thought whoever scores the most points wins the game.

This.

Every time someone posts something about defense wins championships or PGs or posts or whatever, they're oversimplifying. Now, often times an improvement in defense or an improvement in point guard play might be the largest areas of improvement possible, so in those cases they might result in winning more championships. However, in cases where a team has good PG play and defense and poor offense and post play, for them improvement in offense and post play will win championships. The key is outscoring the opponent.

MDABE80
01-18-2011, 10:23 PM
I thought guard play and defense win games.

Bilas was a big...he devalues guards. Go back a few years and look who was in the E8 or FF....guard driven teams who play defense. Without defense, no team wins much....and it gets worse in the NCAA tournament.

Guys like Bilas think the guards are a necessary evil ...to get the bigs the ball to score more.

MDABE80
01-18-2011, 10:28 PM
This.

Every time someone posts something about defense wins championships or PGs or posts or whatever, they're oversimplifying. Now, often times an improvement in defense or an improvement in point guard play might be the largest areas of improvement possible, so in those cases they might result in winning more championships. However, in cases where a team has good PG play and defense and poor offense and post play, for them improvement in offense and post play will win championships. The key is outscoring the opponent.

Web..sorry...defense controls what the other teams scores. It also get your own offense the ball so your team can score. Defense also locks up minutes so the time is controlled. VERY VERY naive to think offense is key . It's the defense and guards that control the college game. Sorta leads to more points if their offense doesn't have the ball.....sorta leads to more points if your team has the ball and eats some time so your team gets the high percentage shots...if you get my drift...;)

OR by way of example...go look at our losses. See who had the ball and played defense and won the games. It wasn't us.

WallaWallaZag
01-18-2011, 10:39 PM
Web..sorry...defense controls what the other teams scores. It also get your own offense the ball so your team can score. Defense also locks up minutes so the time is controlled. VERY VERY naive to think offense is key . It's the defense and guards that control the college game. Sorta leads to more points if their offense doesn't have the ball.....sorta leads to more points if your team has the ball and eats some time so your team gets the high percentage shots...if you get my drift...;)

OR by way of example...go look at our losses. See who had the ball and played defense and won the games. It wasn't us.

abe...sorry, but a well balanced team wins championships. just defense won't cut it or florida state would have won last year and would be front runners this year as well. i've also heard/read several times from different sources that maryland is leading the nation in defensive efficiency this year but they're just a mediocre team.

if i'm not mistaken i also seem to remember the recent unc teams that won it all didn't exactly play great defense...they simply out-talented and outscored everyone.

webspinnre
01-18-2011, 10:42 PM
I'm not saying that offense wins games. I'm just saying that "defense wins games" is a tired cliche, and that you're better than that. Outscoring teams wins games. This is some combination of offense+defense. Usually the best bet is to work to correct a team's deficiencies rather than further strengthening their strengths, as there is more room for growth, and thus a larger margin of improvement. Notice clearly here that I am not saying that offense is the key.

Now, this is not to say that defense is not one of our weaknesses, and thus should be an area to seek improvement, and that this improvement is going to be the key to our winning championships. I am saying that defense isn't everything. Just ask Dick Bennett's WSU teams. You have to have defense AND offense if you want to win championships. Show me a championship team that didn't have both.

MDABE80
01-18-2011, 10:47 PM
Balance yes...we didn't have it. Lousy defense and lousy rebounding lose games...give the ball right back in TO's...and it gets worse. That's what happened..and it'll happen again if we dog it.

Maryland would be tons worse off in terms of record without defense.

OR don't play defense and let the other team score.....80 or so every game. Guess who wins?
Let's hope by "balance" you don't mean lousy offense and lousy defense... as a match.

Good offense AND good defense is a match too. I like this match;)...and this balance;)

1. Good offense and good defense = mostly wins
2. Good offense and bad defense = half and half
3. Bad offense and bad defense = loses a lot(most)
4. Bad offense and good defense = wins more than no. 2 above.

WallaWallaZag
01-18-2011, 11:14 PM
abe - i guess we'll just hafta agree to disagree...you think defense is more important than offense...i think everything is equally important.

EuroZag2010
01-18-2011, 11:19 PM
I think defense + offense is great combo :) how about some stars now;) I thought it was a pretty good thread !

CDC84
01-19-2011, 09:18 AM
Only one team since 2003 has won the national title with a defensive efficiency that was greater than its offensive efficiency, and that was Kansas, who was #1 in defensive efficiency and #2 in offensive efficiency. Three teams have won the national title despite having a defensive efficiency in the teens: North Carolina, Florida and Syracuse. Every team that has won a national title since 2003 has ranked in the top 10 in offensive efficiency except Syracuse (the Carmelo effect), and five of those title winners were in the top five.

The bottom line is that you must have a good defensive team to win the national title, but he who has the most offensive weapons usually wins. I'd rather have the best offensive team at the final 4 with a good defense than be the best defensive team at the final 4 with an offense in the mid teens.

MDABE80
01-19-2011, 09:48 AM
CDC says" I'd rather have the best offensive team at the final 4 with a good defense than be the best defensive team at the final 4 with an offense in the mid teens. "

who wouldn't?

DixieZag
01-19-2011, 10:24 AM
Of course they are both important!!!

The one thing that committing to great defense has is that no matter how good you are offensively (SMC is a great offensive team) there are going to be a couple of games that the shots are just not falling - teams get hot and cold as a group - and on the nights when a great offensive team has shots rattle out, great defense can keep them in the game and create easy baskets by turnovers for lay ups.

I played Freshman basketball (HS) and the one thing I remember is "your shot is not going to be there every game - but your defense will be b/c we commit to playing the toughest defense" - - makes sense.

Pleasant Peninsula
01-19-2011, 10:51 AM
Only one team since 2003 has won the national title with a defensive efficiency that was greater than its offensive efficiency, and that was Kansas, who was #1 in defensive efficiency and #2 in offensive efficiency. Three teams have won the national title despite having a defensive efficiency in the teens: North Carolina, Florida and Syracuse. Every team that has won a national title since 2003 has ranked in the top 10 in offensive efficiency except Syracuse (the Carmelo effect), and five of those title winners were in the top five.

The bottom line is that you must have a good defensive team to win the national title, but he who has the most offensive weapons usually wins. I'd rather have the best offensive team at the final 4 with a good defense than be the best defensive team at the final 4 with an offense in the mid teens.

The other side to that coin, however, is the fact that in the last decade or so, all the teams that have reached the Final Four have been top 20 in defensive efficiency (yes, including George Mason in 2006).