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View Full Version : When will Gonzaga get National respect again?



gu03alum
01-14-2011, 04:51 AM
Gonzaga has 5 losses and I'm sure that some people nationally think that is an eyesore, but all of those losses were against ranked (at the time) teams, except for Washington State. Washington State is a good team that has a good chance to make the tournament if they can figure out how to win on the road in the Pac 10. All of those were on the road or at "neutral" courts except for undefeated San Diego State University. All of those losses occured when one of the best players on our team was hurt.

With how good the team has looked now that the best players are healthy I think its time for the national people to give Gonzaga a second look.

Reborn
01-14-2011, 05:26 AM
I think Gonzaga will have to win @ Portland and beat Memphis in the Spokane Arena to get back into the top 25, and they can not afford to be beaten by any of the other teams. I think Gonzaga will be in the top 25 by the time they play St. Mary's, @ St. Mary's. Like BZ said in a post not long ago, once a team get's knocked out of the top 25 it's difficult to get back in, unless of course you're a BCS school.

Chicken Ball
01-14-2011, 05:36 AM
They have not looked very good in their first two WCC games. Certainly not playing like a top-25 team right now. Mediocre second halves against mediocre to poor teams is not going to get much national attention. Should have beaten Portland by 20 and Pepp by 30.

NEC26
01-14-2011, 05:39 AM
I thought the same thing but it looks to me like Few is trying to get some of the bench guys some playing time and experience. So thats part of it(not necessarily the UP game that was just another poor offensive start to a half). Hopefully it pays off down the road for this team and I'm sure it will.

laszagas
01-14-2011, 05:59 AM
I am also happy to look at the box score and not have 2 guys with 38+ minutes in WCC competition. If we can keep the starters minutes down around 26-30 mins a game, it will pay dividends in the tournament. Keeps a little gas in the tank.

FuManShoes
01-14-2011, 06:23 AM
The Zags have national respect, what they don't have are marquee wins. The team's playing better and likely would win some of those games it lost earlier. But unless they win two of three against St Mary's and Memphis, sweep the rest of the schedule and win the WCC tourney, they likely won't be ranked.

cbbfanatic
01-14-2011, 06:23 AM
Gonzaga has 5 losses and I'm sure that some people nationally think that is an eyesore, but all of those losses were against ranked (at the time) teams, except for Washington State. Washington State is a good team that has a good chance to make the tournament if they can figure out how to win on the road in the Pac 10. All of those were on the road or at "neutral" courts except for undefeated San Diego State University. All of those losses occured when one of the best players on our team was hurt.

With how good the team has looked now that the best players are healthy I think its time for the national people to give Gonzaga a second look.

you summed it up in your first paragraph by only talking about losses. anyone can lose to good teams. to get respect, you've gotta beat some good teams. as it stands, GU has 4 top 100 wins (with baylor sitting precariously at #100), but none of them are particularly eye-catching.

i think national respect THIS YEAR, is off the table prior to the tournament. sure, gonzaga may get ranked at one point due to teams in the big east, big ten, hell, even mtn west knocking each other around, but i dont think they will get a ton of respect to go along with it. it will be more like ranked by default. if the zags win a couple games in the tournament (with at least one being against a good team), then the real respect will come in.

but i think the ship has sailed for really earning a ton of national respect during the regular season

FrosTbear
01-14-2011, 06:31 AM
I think Gonzaga will have to win @ Portland and beat Memphis in the Spokane Arena to get back into the top 25, and they can not afford to be beaten by any of the other teams. I think Gonzaga will be in the top 25 by the time they play St. Mary's, @ St. Mary's. Like BZ said in a post not long ago, once a team get's knocked out of the top 25 it's difficult to get back in, unless of course you're a BCS school.

That statement might be true for the rematch with St. Mary's but on the 27th we will not have played Memphis. National attention is very important for recruiting but Gonzaga has earned national respect by its record and the only time I am concerned in the polls is on selection Sunday. It is hard not to be impressed with the growth of our team. Look at where we are now not where we have been.

gu03alum
01-14-2011, 06:40 AM
you summed it up in your first paragraph by only talking about losses. anyone can lose to good teams. to get respect, you've gotta beat some good teams. as it stands, GU has 4 top 100 wins (with baylor sitting precariously at #100), but none of them are particularly eye-catching.


You have punched some really big holes in my argument. It's too bad that Baylor has been exposed. That looked like a much better win when it happened. The Marquette and Okie State wins might look better and better as the season goes on.

Zag4Hire
01-14-2011, 06:51 AM
Teams seem to be dropping games left and right during conference play and some more insightful posters have stated this is where Gonzaga can creep up in the rankings because the big boys are beating each other up. If they keep winning and beat SMC in the first bout, they will be in the Top 25.

Johnzaga
01-14-2011, 07:00 AM
I agree but only for the sake of the players that need that recognition for their post Gonzaga careers.

I like the Zags being underrated and not a ton of exposure. We have always been better as the under-dog! We can't be losing WCC games though. No more than 2 losses in conference or it will hurt our seeding. But by half way through conference we will be back in the top 25 I believe. The top 25 are going to be losing games now that they are in conference play. 5 to 7 losses won't look too bad in a month.

EuroZag2010
01-14-2011, 07:15 AM
Who cares? Let's just win! Win the next game win the conference !!

titopoet
01-14-2011, 07:22 AM
They have National respect. Only one team in the top 25 has 5 loses as of voting time, MSU at 24 in coaches poll. and they started at #2 (KSU lost after the polls came out and may drop out) St Mary is getting close to be ranked, and I hope they get in next week. Memphis has lost some their luster and will not give as big a boost as was hope for at the start of the season. The truth is that if GU continue win they will get rank and move up. More importantly is GU seed and not ranking.

CDC84
01-14-2011, 07:46 AM
Just keep winning games.

Portland isn't a mediocre team. They're 12-4 with a RPI of 43. No bad losses. Best three point shooting team in the nation with a couple of decent bigs in the middle. Do they command the national respect of Ohio State or Syracuse? No. Should Gonzaga have beaten them by a larger margin of victory? Yes. But they are not mediocre. And if the national media feels they are mediocre, well, most of those voters are back east and aren't doing their homework. But that's life when it comes to the polls.

229SintoZag
01-14-2011, 08:25 AM
you summed it up in your first paragraph by only talking about losses. anyone can lose to good teams. to get respect, you've gotta beat some good teams. as it stands, GU has 4 top 100 wins (with baylor sitting precariously at #100), but none of them are particularly eye-catching.

i think national respect THIS YEAR, is off the table prior to the tournament. sure, gonzaga may get ranked at one point due to teams in the big east, big ten, hell, even mtn west knocking each other around, but i dont think they will get a ton of respect to go along with it. it will be more like ranked by default. if the zags win a couple games in the tournament (with at least one being against a good team), then the real respect will come in.

but i think the ship has sailed for really earning a ton of national respect during the regular season

I disagree with this. Oklahoma State (RPI 31) is a good win at this point. Xavier (41) is a good win at this point. Portland (47) is still a good win at this point.

Having 3 top 50 wins is already enough in most years for NCAA consideration, if you avoid bad losses. Gonzaga has certainly avoided bad losses. Its worst loss is to WSU--currently at 64 in the RPI. If WSU just finishes respectably it is not inconceivable that all of Gonzaga's losses could end up being to top 50 RPI teams. And if Marquette rallies, Saint Marys rallies, and Baylor rallies, Gonzaga could legitimately have 5-8 top 50 RPI wins by year end. If that happens, Gonzaga is a lock. Even if it does not, odds are all of those wins will end up being "decent" wins--top 100 RPI wins.

One thing to remember when talking about getting national "respect," is that respect is most valued from those who know what they are talking about. Those who know what they are talking about are not necessarily, or even often, those who vote in the polls--AP or Coaches.

Trust me on this: among those who know college basketball, Gonzaga already has respect. The Zags just need to keep it by not losing. Its like Warren Buffet's two rules of investing: rule #1: don't lose money. Rule #2: see rule #1.

Caveat: if these teams tank, these wins could become much less impressive--and that is exactly what happened last year to Gonzaga. Wins against Cincinatti, Illinois, and Memphis all could have ended up top 50 wins, but those three teams all tanked in the second half of their conference seasons and it cost Gonzaga. Let's hope that does not happen this year.

Zagsker
01-14-2011, 08:31 AM
You have punched some really big holes in my argument. It's too bad that Baylor has been exposed. That looked like a much better win when it happened. The Marquette and Okie State wins might look better and better as the season goes on.

How has Baylor been exposed? They are 12-3 (2-0 conf)...their 3 losses are to us, WSU and a recent Duke killer FSU

U Zig, I Zag
01-14-2011, 08:34 AM
I kind of hope we stay under the radar. If we can't be a #5 seed, then be the #12 that beats them.

jaydee77
01-14-2011, 08:39 AM
Look what playing 35 plus minutes did for Matt B last year. He was beat up and running on fumes. Who cares where we are ranked. I would rather be at full strength in March than winning by twenty five in January.

cbbfanatic
01-14-2011, 08:52 AM
I disagree with this. Oklahoma State (RPI 31) is a good win at this point. Xavier (41) is a good win at this point. Portland (47) is still a good win at this point.

Having 3 top 50 wins is already enough in most years for NCAA consideration, if you avoid bad losses. Gonzaga has certainly avoided bad losses. Its worst loss is to WSU--currently at 64 in the RPI. If WSU just finishes respectably it is not inconceivable that all of Gonzaga's losses could end up being to top 50 RPI teams. And if Marquette rallies, Saint Marys rallies, and Baylor rallies, Gonzaga could legitimately have 5-8 top 50 RPI wins by year end. If that happens, Gonzaga is a lock. Even if it does not, odds are all of those wins will end up being "decent" wins--top 100 RPI wins.

One thing to remember when talking about getting national "respect," is that respect is most valued from those who know what they are talking about. Those who know what they are talking about are not necessarily, or even often, those who vote in the polls--AP or Coaches.

Trust me on this: among those who know college basketball, Gonzaga already has respect. The Zags just need to keep it by not losing. Its like Warren Buffet's two rules of investing: rule #1: don't lose money. Rule #2: see rule #1.

Caveat: if these teams tank, these wins could become much less impressive--and that is exactly what happened last year to Gonzaga. Wins against Cincinatti, Illinois, and Memphis all could have ended up top 50 wins, but those three teams all tanked in the second half of their conference seasons and it cost Gonzaga. Let's hope that does not happen this year.

You seem to be equating respect to an ncaa bid, which would be a disconnect from where I am.

True that all those wins could end up solid, but I wouldn't bet on xavier and portland. Portland is a couple more losses to st marys, one more to gu, and another random one away from being out of the top 100 (and that's not an unlikely scenario). Xavier just isn't very good and is being kept afloat by a strong sos at this point. A10 will change that, and if they drop one or two to anyone besides temple/dayton, which you can bet on, they drop like a rock too. Baylor and ok st both should be ok. Ok st looks like smoke and mirrors with their high # vs "look test" of watching them play, but they've got a good statistical base right now to where they probably hold on. Baylor will get stronger as they pick up some more sos points in conf too, assuming they can beat some teams. Their record isn't their downfall at this point, and they will certainly move up from a sos of 219

And sorry, I can't simply "trust you" when you tell me that people who know basketball nationally respect gonzaga this year. Its nothing personal, I just think its hilarious when people tell everyone to "trust them" when making such broad, sweeping comments without much going into it.

75Zag
01-14-2011, 09:05 AM
Bulldogs need to get to the Sweet 16 in March to regain the attention and love they previously enjoyed. Otherwise, they will need a few marquee wins against ranked opponents in November and December of 2011 to climb back into the national spotlight.

Go Bulldogs!

DixieZag
01-14-2011, 10:32 AM
I watched UNC barely eke out a win against v-Tech last night on their home floor and UNC looks. . . . well, they look like a Missouri Valley team. And how many All-American HS kids do they get? I don't know. I do know that GU is nowhere near UNC in history/money etc. and yet UNC had a losing record last year!!

We need to appreciate where we are right now. We have ONE senior ( a damn good one though ) and tons of young talent playing through their youth and maybe the best recruiting class along the way. We were 4-5 and going nowhere. Coach Few, his staff and the players turned this season around and overcame injuries, adversity, and death by schedule.

Respect? SMC has 2 losses, both to ranked teams and a couple of nice wins, THEY are the ones that have been seriously dissed in the polls. Unfortunately, we are likely to split with them, taking both of us out of the polls. A bad loss in conference still threatens our ability to get an auto bid.

The Zags need to seriously re-commit to what got them here, crazy defense, they played it in the first half against UP - and they are going to need that tomorrow night and then . . . we start WCC road games, the bane of all Zags existence. The only thing standing between us and 4 road losses is the same defensive effort they gave against OSU/Portland (first half). If they can do that, then we can worry about "respect" from the committee - and scream when we get a "9" seed.

Chicken Ball
01-14-2011, 10:48 AM
Portland's 3 pt shooting is more than made up for by their awful defense (#205 according to Pomeroy). Not a very good team. This is a situation in which Portland's national reputation may actually better than the reality.

229SintoZag
01-14-2011, 01:02 PM
You seem to be equating respect to an ncaa bid, which would be a disconnect from where I am.

True that all those wins could end up solid, but I wouldn't bet on xavier and portland. Portland is a couple more losses to st marys, one more to gu, and another random one away from being out of the top 100 (and that's not an unlikely scenario). Xavier just isn't very good and is being kept afloat by a strong sos at this point. A10 will change that, and if they drop one or two to anyone besides temple/dayton, which you can bet on, they drop like a rock too. Baylor and ok st both should be ok. Ok st looks like smoke and mirrors with their high # vs "look test" of watching them play, but they've got a good statistical base right now to where they probably hold on. Baylor will get stronger as they pick up some more sos points in conf too, assuming they can beat some teams. Their record isn't their downfall at this point, and they will certainly move up from a sos of 219

And sorry, I can't simply "trust you" when you tell me that people who know basketball nationally respect gonzaga this year. Its nothing personal, I just think its hilarious when people tell everyone to "trust them" when making such broad, sweeping comments without much going into it.

You are correct. The only respect I care about is respect form the committee come March. My post is geared to where we are gaining respect with that cohort of people. It's the difference between the Billboard top 40 and winning a Grammy.

What respect are you after, if not the respect of the committee?

If Portland wins all games except its remaining games against St. Marys and Gonzaga, its RPI will be nowhere near as low as 100. Portland has a projected RPI of 50 right now under Palm's projected RPI formula--a formula which assumed Portland wins all its games except its remaining games against Gonzaga and St. Marys. Obviously that is just a ballpark projection, but Portland would have to do a lot more tanking to get to a 100 RPI beyond losing to St. Marys and GU.

My use of the colloquialism "trust me" was not literal. I do not expect you to trust me, nor do I care whether you do. But since I was not literally asking for your trust to begin with, that is neither here nor there.

UberZagFan
01-14-2011, 01:15 PM
Well you can all trust Uber when he says that GU will not gain any national respect until they earn it! And the sad truth is, there are very few opportunities prior to the NCAAs on GU's schedule to earn any respect.

CaliforniaZaggin'
01-14-2011, 01:26 PM
The Zags have national respect, what they don't have are marquee wins.

Exactly. A schedule with plenty of big wins gets attention (even with a bad loss or two), not schedules with some good wins and no bad losses. Perhaps no one knows this better than Randy Bennet. The Gaels seem to encounter this problem nearly every season.

R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me....

MDABE80
01-14-2011, 01:32 PM
Outside of Mich St, GU's the best 5 loss team in the country. WOW!!! Respectable!!

We win, we rise. We win when we play defense. Got the connection? Play defense= win= national respect.

Losses= no defense= no national respect.

Two versions leading to the outcome.

U Zig, I Zag
01-14-2011, 01:39 PM
I am beginning to think that MDABE likes defense.

gamagin
01-14-2011, 01:52 PM
I am beginning to think that MDABE likes defense.

That's not it. I've got a 1911 Edison talking machine that works the same way as Abe. It's just some broken down grooves. they can't help it.

The needle (thick and old) get's stuck between grooves and thus plays the same parts of the same song, over and over and over.

"As we go through the night . . .As we go through the night . . .As we go through the night . . ."

At this point I get up and kick the side of the oak box, the needle moves reluctantly and, mercifully, the song continues . . .

"Day by Day y y y y "

Otherwise, if you don't get up and administer the kick, it just keep's repeating itself until the old coil spring winds completely out.

"As we go through the night . . . (DEFENSE ! ! ! ) . . .As we go through the night . . . (DEFENSE ! ! ! ) . . .As we go through the night . . . (DEFENSE ! ! ! ) . . .As we go through the night . . . (DEFENSE ! ! ! ) . . .As we go through the night . . . (DEFENSE ! ! ! ) . . .As we go through the night . . . (DEFENSE ! ! ! ) . . .As we go through the night . . . (DEFENSE ! ! ! ) . . . "

(Kick)

"Game by Game ! ! ! ...."

Hope that helps

cjm720
01-14-2011, 02:04 PM
Outside of Mich St, GU's the best 5 loss team in the country. WOW!!! Respectable!!

We win, we rise. We win when we play defense. Got the connection? Play defense= win= national respect.

Losses= no defense= no national respect.

Two versions leading to the outcome.

We win when we score more than the other team.

Now going deep in the tourney is another thing...

kitzbuel
01-14-2011, 02:12 PM
We win when we score more than the other team.

Now going deep in the tourney is another thing...
I think if you score more than the other team, then that holds true in the tourney, too.

sittingon50
01-14-2011, 02:18 PM
when they hit the Elite 8.

gu03alum
01-14-2011, 03:44 PM
You play to win the game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRxm0oGbnRI)

MDABE80
01-14-2011, 06:02 PM
They outscore us when we don't play good defense. You're right... The rest of this season depends soley on defense. Our offense is fine.

Those 5 losses weren't due to offense failure...it was the defense that collapsed. As an FYI, I'm very concerned for the same reason BZ is. Past two games have been the old defense. We can win in the WCC with bad defense...well most games. Not with the good teams though.

GrizZAG
01-15-2011, 05:44 AM
MDABE80 is spot on. Tonight and against SM we better have the "D" in order or we get burned. If we get cold shooting we can manage damage control with smothering defense, but if we let them rain in 18 3's we are screwed.. I withya man..

jazzdelmar
01-15-2011, 07:16 AM
not til next year when the newbie guards break thru and create a nat'l media buzz (fingers crossed).....headlines like: zags diaper dandies, back to the future zags, nova of the west, dickau-steppe comparisons......

this season is at best a prelude to that......

MickMick
01-15-2011, 07:23 AM
The team is young with respect to playing together as a unit.

They aren't going to win the national title, but they are maintaining their high standard relative to what I expected coming in. Mostly because of the big improvement at center and point guard.

The team is respected. Read scouting reports on high school players. When GU is recruiting a kid, it is typically described as interest from a high profile team.

Read the forums of the opponents. A game with GU is typically referenced as a big game. When touting accomplishments, a win over GU is typically included as a big resume builder.

You don't lose your reputation over night.

JPtheBeasta
01-15-2011, 08:00 AM
The Zags don't get as much respect as Saint Mary's from some fans ON THIS BOARD. I can't expect any more from the unbiased nation. I like the lack of respect in a way because we might be able to sneak up on somebody this year. It's a lot more fun to win games you aren't "supposed to", anyway (see: this year's edition of the Seahawks). Less pressure for the first weekend in the NCAA, for sure.

HillBillyZag
01-15-2011, 09:51 AM
IMHO , many of the Nations top teams respect our our program, as they should ! The next step is to make them all FEAR it !

roxdoc
01-15-2011, 02:49 PM
Have to define "respect". I'm sure most people have respect for our program and what it has done year in and year out. Fearful respect for a particular year's team will only come when we start beating teams that have national respect/fear.

Not trying to take away from how good they are but alas I'm afraid that SMC isn't at that level quite yet.

Bogozags
01-15-2011, 08:08 PM
More importantly is GU seed and not ranking.

According to the most recent Bracketology, we are the 33 ranked team and we need to move up 8 spots and pass the likes of: projected seven seeds Michigan St., Temple, Cincy, UCF and eight seeds Minn, AZ St. Johns and WVU. UCF and St. Johns will drop to nine seeds, Cincy drops to an 8 seed, while Minn and AZ move up to seven seeds. I project we move up two spots to #31 as the third 8th seed. Of course we all know this is pure speculation but it is all we have to go on at this point. We can't control what the other teams do BUT we can control our own destiny!

229SINTOZAG
"The only respect I care about is respect form the committee come March. My post is geared to where we are gaining respect with that cohort of people. It's the difference between the Billboard top 40 and winning a Grammy." This makes so much sense and outside of injuries, our only "worry" should be on what the Committee thinks of GU!

The509sfinest
01-15-2011, 10:23 PM
I can tell you every coach in the nation respects Gonzaga. The teams know they can never ever sleep on Gonzaga teams in the past, right now, and the future Zag teams. As long as we have Few, Gonzaga will be the best in the West, maybe not talent wise, but in coaching, teamwork, and love for the game they are always best in the west.

zagamatic
01-17-2011, 04:24 PM
OK. So "our 5 losses" didn't look bad at all at the time they happened.HOWEVER, those teams have started losing games. Just watched the end of the K-State game today when they got hammered by Missouri. Personally I think as far as the NCAA tournament goes, the ONLY acceptable loss for the rest of the schedule is at St. Maries. We absolutely have to beat Memphis in Spokane. And win the WCC tournament. Unless of course, we wanna leave it up to the committee which will LIKELY make us a seven or eight seed again. Let's face it, unless we have a ten loss year and happen to win our tournament, we will NEVER be a double digit seed again. We have enough respect nationally that that simply won't happen. But unless we EARN A HIGHER SEED, we will be punished with a tough first round game against a hungry "power" team. After that, then we get a one or two seeded team in the second round. That's a tough way to "break through" to the final four.

pargo4prez
01-17-2011, 05:51 PM
Honestly, I don't care if we're ranked or not. What difference does it make? Gonzaga is the same great team they are regardless of if they are ranked or not. The rankings don't really matter. Gonzaga will be in the NCAA tournament no matter what and the National champion has to win every gme they play no matter what seed they have in the tournament...so let them under rank us, let them think we have a bad team this year. They're the ones that are going to be surprised when Gonzaga does some major damage. Not me!

DixieZag
01-17-2011, 06:25 PM
Watching Kansas dismantle Baylor on their home floor, our schedule gets weaker as the season goes on. I am as happy as anyone with our turn around, but we better keep winning, one loss this weekend and we are playing for our lives in the WCC tournament.

There is no way to sugar coat our 5 losses, the committee does say that they look at who is "hot" at the end of the year, so I would think it is best to forget the OOC for the Zags (not what they learned) and focus on winning as many as they can coming in, beat Memphis - who is struggling big time - and hope to split with SMC - NO other losses - then we will have done as much as we can do prior to the tournament.

1973Zag
01-18-2011, 09:14 AM
"we will be in the ncaa tournament no matter what." Really? I would like to see that in writing. I wonder if a few powerhouse programs thought the same thing last year-before they were left out. If we finish strong, I think things look good, but nothing (outside of winning in Vegas) is guaranteed.

r92238
01-18-2011, 11:01 AM
:doh:13 games 13 young men. watch these zags. One Game for each.:)

ellenvega
01-18-2011, 05:48 PM
Gonzaga will be in the NCAA tournament no matter what!

Can I have some of what you're drinking? Nothing is a sure thing.

LongIslandZagFan
01-18-2011, 06:14 PM
One cannot worry about the respect of others but rather the respect for themselves.

In other words... don't worry about the polls. It really isn't at all important.