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BobZag
06-01-2007, 11:24 AM
A couple weeks ago Austin Daye and UCLA PF James Keefe had a little game going between themselves at Santa Margarita HS. There were others there as well, but the main story is of Daye and Keefe.

To put it simply: Daye embarrassed Keefe. He scored at will, using every move and shot in the book, all while totally stifling Keefe with swats and position on D. His length and overall skill set was way too much for the UCLA player to handle.

I really like Gray and Sacre, make no mistake. And Ira! too. But the real gem of this '07 class is Daye. I'm dying to see him when the frosh arrive July 1.

kyle dixon
06-01-2007, 01:45 PM
Wasn't Keefe a McDonalds All American prior to his freshman year?

CDC84
06-01-2007, 01:50 PM
Keefe was a Burger Boy indeed. A tad bit overrated in the eyes of some.......

MDABE80
06-01-2007, 03:07 PM
Daye is going to be eyepopping BZ. Wait till you see this kid. If he's not an AA in 2 years I
ll eat my shirt.in public. We're in for a treat.

lothar98zag
06-01-2007, 03:30 PM
Daye is going to be eyepopping BZ. Wait till you see this kid. If he's not an AA in 2 years I
ll eat my shirt.in public. We're in for a treat.


I hope you're talking about Daye, and not people seeing you eat your shirt...

:D

DoggieDogpound
06-01-2007, 03:35 PM
Any chance Daye becomes a starter by the beginning of conference play?

BobZag
06-01-2007, 03:52 PM
Any chance Daye becomes a starter by the beginning of conference play?

I'm sure he'll be worthy of starting but it could be an Adam type deal where he's first off the bench his frosh year.

Bocco
06-01-2007, 03:58 PM
Any chance Daye becomes a starter by the beginning of conference play?

I'm not wondering whether or not he will start. I'm more interest in seeing how many minutes he will play. It would not surprise me if by conference play if he is not getting more minutes than 2-3 of the starters.

roxdoc
06-01-2007, 04:19 PM
Sounds like Micah is going to have a hard time holding onto the 3 spot!

BobZag
06-01-2007, 06:05 PM
Don't underestimate Micah but I see your point... This lineup could be darn good--

Pargo
Bouldin
Downs
Daye
Heytvelt

:)

GU32
06-01-2007, 06:28 PM
Sounds like Micah is going to have a hard time holding onto the 3 spot!

Donít forget how well Micah played in the WCC tournament. If he improves half as much as Pargo did from his frosh to sophomore (last year was really like Micahís freshmen year) he could be scary good.

Bocco
06-01-2007, 06:40 PM
Sometimes I think too much emphasis is put on who is plays a 1-5. If we have a number of players who can play the 3 then one of the things the coaching staff has to do is to develope offensive schemes that take advantage of this fact. Its even better when (as it appears next years team will have) you are blessed with multiple players that can play either the 2-or the 3.

Of greater concern for next year, at least for me, is who will get the rebounds. One of the things I have missed the past couple of years is seeing someone pull down a rebound had pass to a player down court streaking towards the hoop. Its not that it didn't happen, but more the fact that it did not happen with the same frequency it did 3+ years ago.

MickMick
06-01-2007, 07:13 PM
Don't underestimate Micah but I see your point... This lineup could be darn good--

Pargo
Bouldin
Downs
Daye
Heytvelt

:)


I guess if Daye is as imposing on offense as he is touted to be, my concern over offensive rebounds (which I have with this lineup) isn't as dire. Or perhaps Josh will stay closer to the rim on occasion? I just hope Sacre matures quickly...sigh.

roxdoc
06-01-2007, 07:17 PM
BZ: re your line-up suggestion YIKES!!!:D

RebornZag
06-01-2007, 07:41 PM
Great thread. This fits nicely with the thread on Bouldin playing away from the gang this summer. Daye is definately going to get his playing time, and I think he steals a good number of minutes from Bouldin, all as a result of Matt playing away from his teammates out on his own. Here's the lineup I like:

Pargo...at 6'2" 200 lbs
Downs at 6'8"...so he's skinny. We know he can defend and board....
Daye at 6'10"...another skinny guy but he can defend and board
Josh at 6' 11" and 250....can rebound...needs work on defense
Davis at 6'9" but is tough and can leap. Hearing good things about him. Plenty of backup at the 4 and 5. No one will get tired of bangin.

We have a great bench of Pendo, Bouldin, Kuso (Sacre), Brown (Gray).
And of course we have Will Foster and LG just dying to play....

thespywhozaggedme
06-01-2007, 09:53 PM
He's our Kevin Durant. Yea, I said it.:boxing: :D

Nevtelen
06-01-2007, 10:20 PM
I have no doubt that Daye'll be outstanding, but I'm thinking he'll be more Bouldin than Durant - really really impressive one night and have problems the next. We'll see the potential and he'll rip it up sometimes, but because of the depth and the big adjustment necessary to D-I, I just don't think he'll change the team immediately. It seems like down the road he has the potential to be one of the best players GU has seen, but he won't be that right off the bat.

tyra
06-01-2007, 10:23 PM
comes off the bench and doesn't start, per Reborn's suggested lineup, I'll join Abe at midcourt and eat my shirt as well.

RebornZag
06-01-2007, 11:14 PM
I apologize for my lack of clarity Tyra. I didn't mean to say that I think Daye will start. He won't. At least not at first. I think we'll see by February that Daye is the better player, and Matt will be sitting on the bench more than Daye. Like some have said, it doesn't really matter who starts. In other words, I think that Matt will lose minutes on the court because he won't be playing with his teammates as much as he would if he stayed at GU. But like Bob mentioned, there was a former Zag who didn't stay around a lot in the summers, as he enjoyed playing at home, that lost more and more playing time each year, and is now no longer with the team.

I will stick by my words that I wrote over a month ago, that these incoming ballplayers will really challenge the Zags who return for playing time. And there will be a whole lot more then Daye challenging them. IMO, you will see Bouldin losing playing time next year. It's just how I feel.

I would not compare Daye to Bouldin at all. Two different types of ball players. Daye definately plays much more like Durant then like Bouldin. I'm certainly not the only one saying it, but WE will be seeing some pretty amazing things from Daye.

ZagNut08
06-01-2007, 11:34 PM
I dont think he will loose many minutes

Last year we had four players who could bring the ball up in Drav, pmac, bouldin, pargo

This year we have pargo and bouldin

All in all, I think the team will all play less minutes on average - as compared to some starting 5's we have seen in the past gobble up minutes

Nevtelen
06-01-2007, 11:42 PM
So first people were concerned that we don't have a backup PG and we really need another guard, etc. and now Bouldin is loosing PT to Daye? I really don't think that Bouldin and Daye play the same position this year. Why would we use Bouldin at the 3 when we have so many guys lined up for PT there? I doubt Daye will play the 2. So how exactly would Daye be taking PT from Bouldin? You could argue that Daye might take PT from Micah or LG, maybe, but not Bouldin.

I also think there is an overreaction to the whole 'not playing with the team for the summer' thing. I really don't think it'll affect Matt's game all that much. I guess only time will tell - if he makes the final roster, anyway. All in all, I think Matt will get a lot of PT next year. He played out of position most of last season and was still very very good at times.

MickMick
06-01-2007, 11:50 PM
I can't envison any less than 2 "real" guards on the floor for any substantial amount of time...ever. Gray and Bouldin are going to get a heck of a lot of playing time.

There is one thing that is nearly always true about mid major teams (remember that we belong to such a conference). They are typically strong at the guard position and weaker at the post positions. Talented guards are just easier to come by. If Gonzaga demonstrates any weakness or lack of depth at the guard position, the opposition (and I mean all of em) will severly test the team with small, quick, pressing lineups. I believe Bouldin will be fine, however, by virtue of his passing skill. For sure, Gonzaga will be placing a great deal of the burden upon Pargo in these situations.

In other words, if Brown, Pendergraft, Daye, or Downs are put in such a position, other teams will be quick to test their ball handling skills. I expect that teams will be doing so regardless of who (including Bouldin) is at the 2 position. I will be taking a lot of interest in our turnover margin next season. I have a feeling that a pair of great defensive guards could give us real trouble.

In summary, as an opposing coach of an inferior squad, my strategy to beat Gonzaga would be: Try to get Pargo in foul trouble as soon as possible. Once Pargo is on the bench, go with a small, quick lineup to challenge Gonzaga's overall ball handling skills using a full court press.

Here I am...the guy that started the thread titled "Ira at PG?" Well...we all are looking for answers at the lack of depth at the guard position. Perhaps Ira has good enough handles to make us forget about PMAC?

RebornZag
06-01-2007, 11:55 PM
This is how Daye will play at the #2. Pargo at the 1, Daye at the 2, Downs at the 3, Josh (Pendo) at the 4 and Davis (Kuso, Sacre, Will) at the 5.

Or maybe when Daye is in at the point with LG and Ira Brown at the wings...and we play a full court press....on defense. Or even a 2-3 zone defense..

Or we could have Daye in with Gray, Brown, Pendo and Kuso...Few liked playing that small team last year with Downs in, but maybe We'd be even more effective with Daye in there instead of Matt.

I think Daye is that versatile.

GonzagaGurl08
06-02-2007, 07:48 AM
Man... I am stoked to see Austin Daye play. Sounds like we have a real keeper. If he kicked Keefe's @$$ (a McDonald's AA player), we are in for a real treat. I can't wait for the season to start. It's killing me (softly).

Bocco
06-02-2007, 08:48 AM
He's our Kevin Durant. Yea, I said it.:boxing: :D


I sure hope he says longer at GU than Durant at Texas, like three years longer.

fedwayzag
06-02-2007, 09:43 AM
Austin's Dad, Darren played guard at UCLA and was pretty tall. I think he was 6'7?? So if Austin's game is anything like his dads, I am sure he can play the 2. Maybe handle the ball in certain situations to take the pressure off Pargo and/or Bouldin. The future really is bright.

RebornZag
06-02-2007, 10:02 AM
I haven't seen Daye play live (but I wish I had). I've only seen what has been posted here or on the recruiting sites. I've read what I've could though. The videos I've seen (and one was a whole game) clearly show that he likes to play outside on offense. Even more than Josh. The videos also clearly show that he does have the basketball skills to play the 2 position on offense. He is extrememly quick with the ball, and has very good ball handling skills (which Josh does not have). You can clearly see that this young man learned an aweful lot about the game from a dad who was an outstanding guard. Who figured he'd grow up to be 6' 10". But believe me, no one is complaining. I am old enough to remember Darren Daye (Austin's father). And his dad was very, very good.

I'm not sure how Few will use Darren...it'll take awhile I'm sure. But my impression at this time is that he's going to be playing, and that he will certainly get pretty substantial minutes. The nice thing about Darren is that he can get them from a variety of positions. But believe me, Darren is not the only very talented basketball player coming in to GU. We are going to be very strong next year. One of The Zags coaches famous sayings is "that a team is as strong as their weakest link." If this is true, like I said, we will be very strong.

gamagin
06-02-2007, 10:15 AM
but I don't think at this level one game, one way or the other, makes any particular case.

I doubt Keefe is going to quit over one bad game. More likely, if he has the right stuff, he will double his efforts & workouts and let his whipping at the hands of Daye serve as a wake up call.

The real measure will come with the banging, attention to detail, team chemistry and cohesion the GU staff will attempt to instill in the vets and the incoming talent on our team.

then try and keep the peace while chosing some of them over others in the lineup.

And from the fine reports coming out here, there are more, larger, faster, athletes (and one would suppose, bigger egos, too) involved here that may or may not go along with the type of seniority I have witnessed (not always supportively) when it comes down to pt.

So the way I see it at this juncture is Few and co have set an incredibly interesting and inviting and competitive table.

We'll have to wait & see how the banquet turns out after they huddle, assess and finally add the secret eleven herbs and spices.

It will be great fun. It is already.

thespywhozaggedme
06-02-2007, 10:55 AM
Reborn,
I believe Darren has exhausted all of his eligibility so Few will most likely us him as a cheering parent.;)

RebornZag
06-02-2007, 11:05 AM
Great point, TheSpyWhoZaggedMe. But don't you think that Darren does live on in his son? lol.....:D And that when Dustin is out there playing Darren's contributions to his son just take over and we actually seem to think it's Darren who's out there playin? :lmao: No I'm just kiddin...I really do have a horrific time with names. Just ask my son. It's definately a character defect.

CDC84
06-02-2007, 12:04 PM
The biggest obstacle that Austin will be facing as he enters the D-1 realm is his body. He is just about the most rail thin basketball player you have ever seen for a 6-10 kid. He's skinnier than Durant, and as people saw at Spokane Arena in March, Durant is skinny. Therefore, I question how much you are going to see him play at the 4, even though he has the shotblocking ability to be a terror underneath. But it'll depend on who the opposing 4 man is. What I am hoping the staff does is use him to guard those 3 pointers in the corner.

To be honest, the only thing that Durant and Daye share is that they are very tall wing players. Durant is more athletic than Daye and is a much, much better long range shooter. Probably has better ball skills too. I think Austin's mid range game is a bit more polished, and he's a better shotblocker.

If you really want to make a comparison, the guy you're looking for is Tayshaun Prince. I am talking about when Prince was a prep player coming out of L.A....not what he is now as a Detroit Piston. At the same age Prince was a better defender with better ball skills, but Austin right now is far more offensively polished.

kitzbuel
06-02-2007, 01:32 PM
With all the height that will be more perimeter oriented, will Kuso be able to pick up slack on the inside, in particular rebounding? It looks like we can stretch defenses pretty well and leave some space for him to clean up some trash.

RebornZag
06-02-2007, 01:40 PM
We were able to do that to some extent last season for Kuso. The only problem I saw was that he couldnt catch the ball. In our loss to Indiana he must have mishandled or outright missed passes that would have led to very easy buckets probably five times. That's ten more points. I had to ask myself why he was so wide open. Opponents wanted us to pass him the ball. The second reason would be that the guy who guarded Kuso was helping out on guarding other guys like Raivio, Downs, Pargo in particular.

We need to have a guy in the middle who will keep opponents honest and make them guard our low post guy. We also need a guy who can handle passes and score. I liked the rest of Kuso's game. He's a heck of a defensive player and rebounder. If he can improve his offensive skills I do think he'd be a great asset to our team. But we need a low post guy who demands respect from opponents.

BobZag
06-02-2007, 03:16 PM
We were able to do that to some extent last season for Kuso. The only problem I saw was that he couldnt catch the ball. In our loss to Indiana he must have mishandled or outright missed passes that would have led to very easy buckets probably five times. That's ten more points. I had to ask myself why he was so wide open. Opponents wanted us to pass him the ball. The second reason would be that the guy who guarded Kuso was helping out on guarding other guys like Raivio, Downs, Pargo in particular.

We need to have a guy in the middle who will keep opponents honest and make them guard our low post guy. We also need a guy who can handle passes and score. I liked the rest of Kuso's game. He's a heck of a defensive player and rebounder. If he can improve his offensive skills I do think he'd be a great asset to our team. But we need a low post guy who demands respect from opponents.

I have some confidence in Kuso, and I think by the time Theo and Sacre round into shape, we'll see all three rotating in to man the middle. That's 15 fouls to give for one spot: Center. Not too shabby. That means each can play 120% all-out and replaced when they need a break. I like that.

As for Daye, he averaged a bunch of rebounds in high school. Some players just have a sixth sense about rebounding, where the ball is going to be and great anticipation, ala Dennis Rodman. If this is the case with Austin, it'll partially make up for his thin frame.

RebornZag
06-02-2007, 05:02 PM
Any thoughts on Will Foster, Bob? At times, after reading some post, I really get an impression that Will is making big strides, and seeing how Burgess just left it certainly keeps a door open for Will? Any thoughts anyone on will?

ZagNut08
06-02-2007, 05:04 PM
With regards to Will...he is a project still. He is tall and gaining weight, but based on where he left of next year, and what others have said...it seems his playing time will not be fully realized untill his jr or sr years. We are jammed inside next year: Heytvelt, Davis, Kuso, Brown, Pendo, Sacre all playing above him imo, dont expect much out of him this season.

None the less, he showed great signs of shot blocking ability this season in limited minutes. I think we could see him play if fouls pick up, or we arent facing a true center

BobZag
06-02-2007, 05:35 PM
Sheesh, I forgot about Big Will. ZagNut08 is right, he still has a ways to go, but from everything I'm hearing he is making huge strides and playing with much more aggression than he had before. Trouble is, even though he's making big strides, he has such a long ways to go. I think I said on here somewhere that Will should really contribute in a big way his junior and senior years, though I have no doubt we'll see much more of him this year than last.

Nevtelen
06-03-2007, 11:31 AM
I still kinda wish he'd redshirt a year - he could use the development time and man, that extra year of PT after he's developed could be huge...

J-Mac Zag Forever
06-03-2007, 06:39 PM
It has been reported that Sacre is D1 ready. At 7 feet he supposedly aready has all the post moves. Granted there needs to be an adjustment period but if true think of the possiabilities. Thinking hmmmmmmm
Sacre - 7ft center with Kuso and Foster backing him up.
Thinking hmmmmmm
Josh - 6'11" at the Four with 6'9" Davis backing him up.
Thinking hmmmmmm
Pendo (Senior)- with Downs 6'8" Daye 6'10" as bk up.

With Sacre,Kuso and Foster protecting the paint why not move Josh to the four where he is comfortable and wants to play. With his 12ft shooting, his ability to shoot from the perimeter and the strength to go to the basket, all I can say is, wow.

Three bigs at 3,4 and 5 who will stop them offensively.

Three bigs at 3,4 and 5 who will get a shot off inside.

Ira is reportedly a good ball handler and extreemly fast he can bring the ball down the court if necessary.

I witnessed Downs bringing the ball down last year and he did well.
Thinking hmmmmmmm
Gurganious, Ira, and Pargo going after the ball defensively. That will be fun to watch. If the other team has no inside game and these three guys are locking down
their guard play. Wowwwwwww!

How many days left. Few should tease us with a 15m peek
during a pickup game then kick us out for security reasons.
Of course that would be a cold day unless your name is BobZag.

gamagin
06-04-2007, 10:59 AM
<< BZ: Sheesh, I forgot about Big Will.>>

I've posted this before, but who knows where on this site.

I learned a big lesson watching Mark eaton and mostly hating every second of it. Until I heard from Stock's dad that he was one of John's favorite players, for one simple reason.

Eaton's presence changed everyone else's shot. took them out of their normal shooting positions, made them put an arch on their shot, made them have to think about moving more than they like and so on.

I watched Will the few minutes he played. And that is exactly what happened to the other team. It may not last for too many minutes, but just being out there presents a problem for everyone else trying to get to the net.

fwiw.

brasszag
06-04-2007, 02:29 PM
I saw the same thing... Will posting up makes the offense react to his moves (try and find an open angle) - less than he reacts to the offense.

His simple presence on defense is disruptive to any team's offensive flow - and could be good to sub in when other teams start getting into a groove.

Embarrassment of riches.

Bocco
06-04-2007, 05:37 PM
Still remember Will's miniutes in the WCC tourny. It came at a time when we needed some minitues from a big guy, and he came in a did a great job. It was a glimpse of what he can bring to the table over the next few years.

MarkUCLA
06-05-2007, 08:26 AM
Austin's Dad, Darren played guard at UCLA and was pretty tall. I think he was 6'7?? So if Austin's game is anything like his dads, I am sure he can play the 2. Maybe handle the ball in certain situations to take the pressure off Pargo and/or Bouldin. The future really is bright.

Yep, Darren was 6'7 & 3/4".
Get this though. I talked to Austin's grandma the other day and she told me her side of the family continued to grow till they were around 21 yrs old. There is a chance Austin could grow another inch or two. Yikes.

Regarding Austin playing guard, remember he was only 6'1" when he entered 9th grade. He was always skinny and wasnt that remarkably tall so he has played the swing/point guard position all his life.

On the other hand, Darren was 6'4" in 9th grade, skinny, but bigger than Austin, and though he played guard also, he was used to playing down inside more often and became a good defender down low. When he played for the Celtics, though he backed up Bird, he got a lot of playing time because he was the only player that could handle Adrian Dantley inside. Poor Darren had to guard Adrian, Julius Erving, Bernard King, Larry Bird (when Darren was with Washington), Magic Johnson, Mark Aguirre. Just a few of the great forwards of the time. (Oops, Charles Barkley too).

Darren was always well respected as a defender and hopefully that will rub off and carry over to Austin.