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RockandRollJames
12-18-2010, 04:49 PM
This type of game is much more reasonable to expect from Kelly. Don't expect things like our crazy old friend Wildrose. Kelly made a big impact and did some good things out there. He won't ever be one of the best players on the court, but he can be a solid rotation guy.

GoZags
12-18-2010, 04:55 PM
I liked it when he fired up that late three (and loved that it went in). I did some checking over the last week or so, and saw where one of the FIBA tourneys a year or two ago (down in Argentina) that Kelly hit all 6 of his three pointers in the tourney.

If he decides to take the shot -- it has a chance to drop -- and I'm glad he came through today.

CDC84
12-18-2010, 04:56 PM
That three pointer he hit was the biggest shot of the game. If he doesn't nail it, the game momentum would've swung completely to Baylor.

gonwick
12-18-2010, 04:56 PM
Clutch 3, but it's painful to watch his ballhandling. Emblematic of his game was when the ref handed it to him to inbounds to meech after a BU basket and he fumbled it to the ground for meech to pick up. This may be a function of his growth spurt, as someone mentioned in the game thread, but it's still painful. As an aside, he was getting molested in the second half with no foul calls.

Zerogame
12-18-2010, 04:59 PM
I think the kid has had a 3 inch growth spurt since this time last year. He is a full inch taller than Rob now in my estimation. He is still very young, by his senior year he will be a monster for the ZAGS.

RockandRollJames
12-18-2010, 05:02 PM
To make this clear, I'm saying this is just about his upside. He can have better games, but this is just about what we can expect him to consistently produce at best.

gonwick
12-18-2010, 05:08 PM
Hopefully he'll continue to improve every year, it'd be a shame for him to peak as a role player. I agree this is about it for this year, though.

BobZag
12-18-2010, 05:19 PM
That three pointer he hit was the biggest shot of the game. If he doesn't nail it, the game momentum would've swung completely to Baylor.

You beat me to it. Exactly. In my mind, that shot was the biggest. There were others but the time, score and situation could not have demanded for this shot to fall more.

fedwayzag
12-18-2010, 05:19 PM
His 3 was huge, but he hit a 10 footer I think around the 2 minute mark as well which was important. What I like about both shots is there was no hesitation.

ZagMan in Philly
12-19-2010, 06:22 PM
It was nice to see coach had confidence in him to take that shot (play was designed after a timeout), he went up without any hesitation and nothing but net, just awesome. Dagger in the heart.
If Bill Raftery was calling the game, I am sure we would of heard "Onions!"

snebzag
12-19-2010, 06:49 PM
The "Beauty" of that three, was that it was set up during a time out. No other option. Open Kelly, Open three. Took it, nailed it. You will see more of this.
I also noticed a shot he took from around the right side of the foul line. Faced the hoop, jumped and shot. Missed. BUT, He is so tall, his release was around 10', 2". Not defendable. If he can hit this shot 60% of the time with his other options of game....More minutes.

DixieZag
12-19-2010, 06:53 PM
Kelly can score, he just needs a place in the offense and needs to feel comfortable, he scored all summer. I really like that he is getting some positive feedback, the more aggressive he plays, the better he is. I felt like the clumsiness was due to nerves more than ability. He has a high BB I.Q., he had some sweet drop steps last year and he is growing.

He really could be a star by his senior year.

Birddog
12-19-2010, 07:02 PM
I'm not sure if it was because of the goofy lineups as a result of fouls and injuries or if Few just loosened the leash, but I thought he played looser and looked more relaxed. I said in another thread that he played with some abandon. Like others, I attribute the dribbling difficulties to his growth. OTOH, how many 7 footers handle the ball in the open court as well as he does? I don't see him as a back to the basket type player ever.

RenoZag
12-19-2010, 07:04 PM
He really could be a star by his senior year.


:pray:

U Zig, I Zag
12-19-2010, 10:39 PM
He is never going to have the handles of the kid from the HS youtube clips, or even some of what we saw last year.

The growth spurt must have hit him hard. He is very uncoordinated at times. All our kids need hand-eye coordination drills over this next summer. They need better balance as well, nobody, minus Gray, is what I would call 'graceful'.

For KO, I think he needs to thin up (yup) and get some quickness back. When he has total control of his body I think his deft touch and knack for the game will show through. I think we will see a different player next year. He could be an animal by his senior year.

MickMick
12-20-2010, 01:25 AM
If his shots are on, he is a big help. His 3 was clutch. His scoring is much needed as well as his passing and rebounding. Those are his strengths.

On defense, he is a "fouler". Plain and simple. He gets beat with his feet and compensates with his hands.

Martin Centre Mad Man
12-20-2010, 07:03 AM
I still believe that this kid has potential to be an All-WCC player in another year or two. There just aren't a lot of true 7-footers in college basketball who can actually shoot and pass. He still looks like he is growing into that huge body. If this kid continues to develop his strength and coordination and learns a few post moves, he could be a real matchup problem for opposing teams.

Bombs over Zaghdad
12-20-2010, 08:40 AM
Couple observations about Kelly.

1. His shots have not been falling this year, like they were this summer. When those shots start falling, he will be a different player for our team, and it will cause defenses to have to treat him differently than just a big body. It will open up a lot more for our offense as well.

2. I have noticed that Kelly's effort has improved from the beginning of the year. During the Illinois game it was as if a light turned on that he could be a little more aggressive. He was aggressive both with his shots, and with rebounds. Dont get me wrong, he can still improve in the area of effort and aggressiveness, but he has shown improvement since game 1 of this season.

I am hopeful for his future as a Zag.

Just my thoughts...

gamagin
12-20-2010, 10:09 AM
Couple observations about Kelly.

1. His shots have not been falling this year, like they were this summer. When those shots start falling, he will be a different player for our team, and it will cause defenses to have to treat him differently than just a big body. It will open up a lot more for our offense as well.

2. I have noticed that Kelly's effort has improved from the beginning of the year. During the Illinois game it was as if a light turned on that he could be a little more aggressive. He was aggressive both with his shots, and with rebounds. Dont get me wrong, he can still improve in the area of effort and aggressiveness, but he has shown improvement since game 1 of this season.
I am hopeful for his future as a Zag.Just my thoughts...

is what I read from the coaches, canadian and GU, and what I've heard from GU announcers like Richard Fox and (prior to the baylor game) Matt Santangelo, and then what I read here on the GUB.

There is some disparity. A wide gap, actually.

Everyone would like to see him improve faster than he has. But that is up to KO and his body.

The folks who coach him, the ex-Zag stars/announcers who watch him in practice and in the games we all watch, pretty much say the same thing: he's mentally trying to become a forward and he's physically trying to grow into his relatively new 7- foot frame.

Seldom, if at all, has anyone else EXCEPT right here on the GUB, veered the conversation to any sort of limitation on KO's innate athletic abilities as a basketball player or how well he can develop as a Zag.

The coaches, Few in particular and most recently, and Matt Santangelo, in the pre game show before the Baylor game, say KO's "issues (my word)" are (1) confidence and (2) adjusting to his new body and role.

On this board, the conversation too often is more along the lines of how do you turn an elephant into a gazelle ?

Santangelo said KO has the mind of a p.g. and the body of a big. Santangelo, who was, I believe, WCC poy twice and the p.g. on our most successful team ever, said KO has one of if not THE highest basketball IQ on the team.

Few, almost as impatient as we here on the GUB at times, has said many times that what KO needs is the confidence to round out his game while adjusting to his growth spurt.

Confidence and physical maturity are what those who watch him every day, place in KO's bucket list.

So if any of you wonder at times why I snap back at some who can't stop repeating THEIR opinion and ignore the opinions of those who actually see them in all phases of their development, particularly in closed quarters, well, it's because any fool can keep honking his horn in heavy traffic.

But the traffic (like KO) keeps moving along at its own pace, directed and effected by others, and the horn honking doesn't do anything except irritate those closest to the jerk making all the noise, drawing attention to himself and acting like a fool.

So if you can, some of you, put away the horns. Read what those who actually put him in games, trust him, value his ability, consider him a top athlete with real skills, have to say about him. And those who watch him among his peers have to say.

Then, perhaps we could all hold hands and wonder, at times, how in hell he can't seem to keep his legs under him and how can he trip on those (too big/too small?) puppy-dog feet too many times. or (my favorite) dish the ball out to the perimeter while standing 2 nches from the rim, prime for a dunk from the tallest guy on the court.

And so it seems to go.

Until we begin to realize & perhaps begin to appreciate, the challenges, the efforts, he faces and refuses to quit working on. Like the coaches and others have already realized.

If that isn't good enough, maybe we should shift around in our LaZyBoys and rethink this a little.

If we can't switch to celebrating the improvements, growth and confidence building process that is and always has been THE big part of GU basketball, well here's a little test.

Before you sit down again and condemn KO to a life as a greeter at Walmart (not that there's anything wrong with that), strap on a pair of stilts, throw an extra 30-40 pound sack on your shoulders (the amount of weight KO has added since arriving at GU) and (try to) run around the block a few times. Or just cross the room, perhaps with your kids or grandkids running around you and yelling and screaming, too.

When your done. If you live through it, you might begin to realize what sort of task KO is overcoming in the process of transforming his mind and his body into this strange, new basketball phenom. Because that is what those closest to him, who care about him. and who selected him because of what they saw while he was still in high school, as a much smaller, point guard, are waiting to see.

And when that trey swished through the net to change the complexion of the game vs. Baylor the other night, all those who have been waiting, including KO, were greatly rewarded and very thankful for all of his, and their, efforts, in guiding him to that point.

Which is only the beginning of this young man's potential. But it was nevertheless an important signal and sign of what is possible with this kid if he, like the stars, can reach a proper alignment.

ronh_pm
12-20-2010, 10:34 AM
is what I read from the coaches, canadian and GU, and what I've heard from GU announcers like Richard Fox and (prior to the baylor game) Matt Santangelo, and then what I read here on the GUB.
.
.
.


This is perhaps the best posting I have read at this forum.

IMHO the principles discussed in your very well written post apply to many other players "deficiencies" as some here at the forum like to describe them.

Post of the year if I had a vote on such a thing.

Hogan
12-20-2010, 10:41 AM
Actually, Kelly has extremely small feet for his size. (Just meant as an observation, not a critique of Gamagin's excellent post.)

GonzagasaurusFlex
12-20-2010, 11:37 AM
...

Everyone would like to see him improve faster than he has. But that is up to KO and his body.

The folks who coach him, the ex-Zag stars/announcers who watch him in practice and in the games we all watch, pretty much say the same thing: he's mentally trying to become a forward and he's physically trying to grow into his relatively new 7- foot frame.
......


Liked your post so much I had to sign in to the board for first time in weeks. Thanks Gamagin

+1 on 'post of the year' vote

zagfan08
12-20-2010, 12:05 PM
It'll be interesting to see if Kelly is more confident after this game. 7 points and 5 boards in 21 minutes isn't exactly star material, but the way he knocked down those shots in crunch time was good to see. Sometimes that's all a guy needs, one big shot that helps the team win a game. But also, Grant Gibbs drilled a big 3 in crunch time against USF (I think) last year and he didn't instantly turn into the player many here were hoping he'd become.

Ultimately, it's tough to say what Olynyk's contribution will be for the rest of this year and his career, but it's quite feasible that he will be playing with more confidence now, which can only help.

Reborn
12-20-2010, 12:23 PM
Good post Gamagin. You always express yourself quite well. What I don't get about gamagins post, and others who think the same way, is why it is't appropriate, in your view (and in your opinions) for people to share their thoughts and opinions of things here on GUboard. When I read Gamagins post my first thougth was, "maybe we don't need a GUboard as it is. Maybe we should just post what the coaches and friends of players and coaches think.

I will be one of those who posts here who is just as interested in what the fans think as he is in what the coaches think, and/or analysts. The board is not a newspaper, where a reporter has to have (and needs) facts and not opinions. Most of what is written here are opinions. The Board is often a place for fans to vent after a loss or to get excited after a great victory like on Saturday. I think the nature of a fan is to be involved emotionally in the team. I do not believe that anyone who posts here is a reporter, although it certainly is nice if you are credible in what you think you know (someone like BZ, CDC and ZagNative). For me the board is a form of entertainment, and I get a kick out of it. I love to see the differences more than the similarities.

Kelly Olynyk has been criticized, as has everyone who has probablly ever played at GU, because of performances that bloggers felt deserved criticism. I know that there are some who would like this board to be nothing but a place where only positive statements can be written. Would it really be entertaining if it were? I'm a pretty postive person most of the time, but I am also one who has criticized the play of Kelly recently. In general I have been a supporter of Kelly,especaially last year when He was criticized much more. But do you Know what is so awesome? When I see someone whom I have criticized (Carter too) come through and win a huge game for Gonzaga, I am the happiest person in the world. One of my best experiences here is when I have to EAT my words, which I had to do after the play of Kelly and Carter during the Baylor game.

However, I will continue to write in a spirit of honesty, but also in a spirit of trying to find the truth about a situation the best I can. Sometimes my emotions will get the best of me and i will look like a fool. And I will always be one who will support others to speak honestly and with convictiion. Its never easy to write from the minority opinion. Its not easy to go against the grain. I applaud all of you bloggers who are 100% positive all the time, and never criticize any of the players or coaches. And I know there is even a small fraternity of you who gather in your private groups to keep people you don't like out of your reality. Good for you. There is a place and an experience for all of fans in ZagNation. I will always feel a part of it no matter what.

NEC26
12-20-2010, 12:35 PM
Good post Gamagin. You always express yourself quite well. What I don't get about gamagins post, and others who think the same way, is why it is't appropriate, in your view (and in your opinions) for people to share their thoughts and opinions of things here on GUboard. When I read Gamagins post my first thougth was, "maybe we don't need a GUboard as it is. Maybe we should just post what the coaches and friends of players and coaches think.

I will be one of those who posts here who is just as interested in what the fans think as he is in what the coaches think, and/or analysts. The board is not a newspaper, where a reporter has to have (and needs) facts and not opinions. Most of what is written here are opinions. The Board is often a place for fans to vent after a loss or to get excited after a great victory like on Saturday. I think the nature of a fan is to be involved emotionally in the team. I do not believe that anyone who posts here is a reporter, although it certainly is nice if you are credible in what you think you know (someone like BZ, CDC and ZagNative). For me the board is a form of entertainment, and I get a kick out of it. I love to see the differences more than the similarities.

Kelly Olynyk has been criticized, as has everyone who has probablly ever played at GU, because of performances that bloggers felt deserved criticism. I know that there are some who would like this board to be nothing but a place where only positive statements can be written. Would it really be entertaining if it were? I'm a pretty postive person most of the time, but I am also one who has criticized the play of Kelly recently. In general I have been a supporter of Kelly,especaially last year when He was criticized much more. But do you Know what is so awesome? When I see someone whom I have criticized (Carter too) come through and win a huge game for Gonzaga, I am the happiest person in the world. One of my best experiences here is when I have to EAT my words, which I had to do after the play of Kelly and Carter during the Baylor game.

However, I will continue to write in a spirit of honesty, but also in a spirit of trying to find the truth about a situation the best I can. Sometimes my emotions will get the best of me and i will look like a fool. And I will always be one who will support others to speak honestly and with convictiion. Its never easy to write from the minority opinion. Its not easy to go against the grain. I applaud all of you bloggers who are 100% positive all the time, and never criticize any of the players or coaches. And I know there is even a small fraternity of you who gather in your private groups to keep people you don't like out of your reality. Good for you. There is a place and an experience for all of fans in ZagNation. I will always feel a part of it no matter what.

Very nicely said Reborn I'd nominate this for post of the year.
While I don't disagree with a lot of what Gamagin said in that post I do disagree with his virtually attacking some on this board(saying things I'm pretty sure would get others banned) and going bonkers with anyone who might criticize a player or their play. The truth is MOST posters here who critique players aren't NEARLY as vicious as those who don't want anything resembling criticism of the players. This isn't a blanket statement but for the most part it does seem true.

Bombs over Zaghdad
12-20-2010, 01:00 PM
Gamagin,

In no way did I think that my post was "Fact" based. It was simply my opinion and thoughts, which I stated. Considering you tagged my post in yours, I can assume you were talking to me. Just a few things for you-

1. My post was positive. I believe Kelly has strong upside.

2. If an "open forum" isn't a place to voice thoughts and opinions, then maybe this is not the place for me. I was just trying to add to the conversation with what I thought.

3. You made a lot of good points about Kelly. Why not just add your thoughts/knowledge and not call people out for their reasonable opinions?

U Zig, I Zag
12-20-2010, 01:07 PM
gamagin et al,

Make a list of who's in the know on this board, then we would know who to listen to?

Like Reborn is saying, this is an internet board and it's mostly just opinion anyway. Most of our knowledge comes from watching the kids play (the same way, Few, Rice, and Co evaluated these kids before offering).

I all know, barring someone coming in with THE definitive answer (other than stats, there is no 'answer' in evaluating sports talent) is what I see at K2 and on TV. That's the scenario for most people and they are going to continue to post their opinions. That's what I hope everyone continues to do (everyone's opinion is valid, one way or another).

Bombs over Zaghdad
12-20-2010, 01:09 PM
gamagin et al,

Make a list of who's in the know on this board, then would would know who to listen to?

Like Reborn is saying, this is an internet board and it's mostly just opinion anyway. Most of our knowledge comes from watching the kids play (the same way, Few, Rice, and Co evaluated these kids before offering).

I all know, barring someone coming in with THE definitive answer (other than stats, there is no 'answer' in evaluating sports talent) is what I see at K2 and on TV. That's the scenario for most people and they are going to continue to post their opinions. That's what I hope everyone continues to do (everyone's opinion is valid, one way or another).

+1

WeSayZed
12-20-2010, 01:21 PM
I still believe that this kid has potential to be an All-WCC player in another year or two. There just aren't a lot of true 7-footers in college basketball who can actually shoot and pass. He still looks like he is growing into that huge body. If this kid continues to develop his strength and coordination and learns a few post moves, he could be a real matchup problem for opposing teams.
And while hes adjusting he still has our bet FG% at .596, and hes second in RBs at 4.9, and first in terms of RB/minute. So while he looks like a gangly teenager whos just been through a growth spurt at times, which is what he is, hes also still playing quite well.

U Zig, I Zag
12-20-2010, 01:26 PM
And while hes adjusting he still has our bet FG% at .596, and hes second in RBs at 4.9, and first in terms of RB/minute. So while he looks like a gangly teenager whos just been through a growth spurt at times, which is what he is, hes also still playing quite well.

That's been my hope. Imagine when he has got total control again of those feet, arms and hands. I imagine the will is there (though I wish he would break some wrists slamming it on people more) but the body is lagging behind a bit...

Until then though (and to keep himself from getting hurt, even) he needs to play within the confines of that body. I like him with little dribbling, top of the key, FT line in and shooting. Just catch and shoot, Kelly.

He could be a Pau Gasol type guy if it all comes together.

gamagin
12-20-2010, 01:34 PM
Gamagin,

In no way did I think that my post was "Fact" based. It was simply my opinion and thoughts, which I stated. Considering you tagged my post in yours, I can assume you were talking to me. Just a few things for you-

1. My post was positive. I believe Kelly has strong upside.

2. If an "open forum" isn't a place to voice thoughts and opinions, then maybe this is not the place for me. I was just trying to add to the conversation with what I thought.

3. You made a lot of good points about Kelly. Why not just add your thoughts/knowledge and not call people out for their reasonable opinions?

I picked up your post in support, not opposition. I liked it. I thought it a good example. It inspired me. It prompted me to write what I did, not to give you a bad time. The opposite.

I apologize if that was your impression. It was definitely not my intention or purpose.

Hogan
12-20-2010, 01:36 PM
Wow, I agree tremendously with reborn here. In fact I would go so far as to say that some of the comments on this board are more accurate than what we hear from announcers or even coaches. They simply have constraints on their public comments that we do not.

gamagin
12-20-2010, 01:39 PM
[QUOTE=Reborn;616743]Good post Gamagin. You always express yourself quite well. What I don't get about gamagins post, and others who think the same way, is why it is't appropriate, in your view (and in your opinions) for people to share their thoughts and opinions of things here on GUboard. >>

good post.

the only question I saw was that posted above.
please reread the post and point out where "I say it isn't appropriate for people to share their thoughts and opinions of things on the GUB".

Reborn
12-20-2010, 01:55 PM
Here is some of it, Gamagin: Quote from Gamagin: "So if any of you wonder at times why I snap back at some who can't stop repeating THEIR opinion and ignore the opinions of those who actually see them in all phases of their development, particularly in closed quarters, well, it's because any fool can keep honking his horn in heavy traffic.

But the traffic (like KO) keeps moving along at its own pace, directed and effected by others, and the horn honking doesn't do anything except irritate those closest to the jerk making all the noise, drawing attention to himself and acting like a fool.

So if you can, some of you, put away the horns. Read what those who actually put him in games, trust him, value his ability, consider him a top athlete with real skills, have to say about him. And those who watch him among his peers have to say."

I think you are saying that if people who criticize players by speaking their minds and giving their opinions then they are "fools", and worse yet you call some of the fans who post here, "jerks." I would also interpret "put away the horns" as "stop posting in a way that criticizes the players." And don't make noise by criticizing players when you don't know them really, just repeat what you hear from the coaches and those close to either the coaches or players.

gamagin
12-20-2010, 02:21 PM
Wow, I agree tremendously with reborn here. In fact I would go so far as to say that some of the comments on this board are more accurate than what we hear from announcers or even coaches. They simply have constraints on their public comments that we do not.

of any one reasonable question that Few has been asked but would not answer. And that someone subsequently answered on the GUB, as you suggest in your quote above.

For my money, there well may be more questions that go unasked but I've yet to see Few refuse to answer one. I blame the questioners and have done so privately and on this board.

But I am very interested in an example of a "more accurate" comments than I've heard from Few, Santangelo, Toby or Hudson. I'll give you Heister, but even he manages a couple of pertinent questions per week. Ands Ehlo has been the source of information (like on EH's shoulder when he was asked about it on one of the radio shows) on occasion.

So fire away & thanks.

cjm720
12-20-2010, 03:16 PM
Gamagin, you're being too rational for the fanatics! Great post.

gamagin
12-20-2010, 03:17 PM
Here is some of it, Gamagin: Quote from Gamagin: "So if any of you wonder at times why I snap back at some who can't stop repeating THEIR opinion and ignore the opinions of those who actually see them in all phases of their development, particularly in closed quarters, well, it's because any fool can keep honking his horn in heavy traffic.

But the traffic (like KO) keeps moving along at its own pace, directed and effected by others, and the horn honking doesn't do anything except irritate those closest to the jerk making all the noise, drawing attention to himself and acting like a fool.

So if you can, some of you, put away the horns. Read what those who actually put him in games, trust him, value his ability, consider him a top athlete with real skills, have to say about him. And those who watch him among his peers have to say."

I think you are saying that if people who criticize players by speaking their minds and giving their opinions then they are "fools", and worse yet you call some of the fans who post here, "jerks." I would also interpret "put away the horns" as "stop posting in a way that criticizes the players." And don't make noise by criticizing players when you don't know them really, just repeat what you hear from the coaches and those close to either the coaches or players.

If you are one of the guys honking (mindlessly making assertions, claims, outrageous, personal comments about specific Zags), or otherwise represent the jerks I describe in my post, then I was talking about you. It's really your call.

I was not thinking about you nor describing you when I wrote the original post, fwiw.

I have never suggested we listen only to the coaches as you seem to suggest I am doing. Not sure where that interpretation came from. the point is to know what the coaches are saying instead of making up some crazy ass explanation and ignore the known details. Repeat offenders are honkers.

It ought to be a given on GUB to at least stick to the information that is current and generally should be known among those who claim to keep a close eye on the program. Too much to ask ? If you're a poster who wants to call for an end to the program, Few to be fired, and on an on, it seems to me you should be ready to offer support for that claim. You are not being picked on.

The rest of your interpretation misses the point of the post, too. My point, condensed, is: If we're going to try & hang someone on the team or in the program or admn, we need a fair trial, imo. I gave some people hell if you recall when there was a luncheon in seattle and none of the attendees would tell us what happened. I am the last guy to tell someone to shut up or not to post. I am insulted you would even think that. I have an extensive history in the opposite camp.

Lies, personal attacks, blatant exaggerations and falsehoods are not opinions. They are just what they are. We ought to all be on guard against them. They reflect poorly on all Zag fans and hardly make for a better discussion.

I have called out or challenged a very small number of individuals, on specifics, by name, over the past several of years if I have a real beef with them.

former1dog
12-20-2010, 03:22 PM
If you are one of the guys honking (mindlessly making assertions, claims, outrageous, personal comments about specific Zags), or otherwise represent the jerks I describe in my post, then I was talking about you. It's really your call.

I was not thinking about you nor describing you when I wrote the original post, fwiw.

I have never suggested we listen only to the coaches as you seem to suggest I am doing. Not sure where that interpretation came from. the point is to know what the coaches are saying instead of making up some crazy ass explanation and ignore the known details. Repeat offenders are honkers.

It ought to be a given on GUB to at least stick to the information that is current and generally should be known among those who claim to keep a close eye on the program. Too much to ask ? If you're a poster who wants to call for an end to the program, Few to be fired, and on an on, it seems to me you should be ready to offer support for that claim. You are not being picked on.

The rest of your interpretation misses the point of the post, too. My point, condensed, is: If we're going to try & hang someone on the team or in the program or admn, we need a fair trial, imo. I gave some people hell if you recall when there was a luncheon in seattle and none of the attendees would tell us what happened. I am the last guy to tell someone to shut up or not to post. I am insulted you would even think that. I have an extensive history in the opposite camp.

Lies, personal attacks, blatant exaggerations and falsehoods are not opinions. They are just what they are. We ought to all be on guard against them. They reflect poorly on all Zag fans and hardly make for a better discussion.

I have called out or challenged a very small number of individuals, on specifics, by name, over the past several of years if I have a real beef with them.

What we have here, is a failure to communicate.

Rather than make general references to the honkers or jerks, perhaps you could reference specific posts and then reasonable individuals wouldn't be confused as to who you are referring to when you make reference to honkers or jerks.

I read your post and interpreted it as Reborn did. Although you might not agree, I consider myself a reasonable individual and not prone to being thin skinned. I did take offense at your post not for anything I have written in the basketball forum, but for the inkling that you're pushing for GUBoards to become your personal echo chamber.

Peace.

Edited to add: I had more to say on this topic a few weeks back here

http://www.guboards.com/showthread.php?t=31089

gamagin
12-20-2010, 03:27 PM
Very nicely said Reborn I'd nominate this for post of the year.
While I don't disagree with a lot of what Gamagin said in that post I do disagree with his virtually attacking some on this board(saying things I'm pretty sure would get others banned) and going bonkers with anyone who might criticize a player or their play. The truth is MOST posters here who critique players aren't NEARLY as vicious as those who don't want anything resembling criticism of the players. This isn't a blanket statement but for the most part it does seem true.

reborn. I think it covers your assertions.

as for criticizing posters, I would suggest I criticize or challenge the posts several times before I ever start questioning the veracity of any poster.

Those who lean on their horns without providing rhyme nor reason, sorry to say, deserve to be challenged, imo. It's part of the "give" in the give and take of any discussion.

Otherwise this board isn't worth the lickspittle in the tuba players horn.

NEC26
12-20-2010, 03:30 PM
reborn. I think it covers your assertions.

as for criticizing posters, I would suggest I criticize or challenge the posts several times before I ever start questioning the veracity of any poster.

Those who lean on their horns without providing rhyme nor reason, sorry to say, deserve to be challenged, imo. It's part of the "give" in the give and take of any discussion.

Otherwise this board isn't worth the lickspittle in the tuba players horn.

I stand by what I posted. You and some others get away with far more vitriol and language than any of the posters that upset you so much.

ZagNative
12-20-2010, 03:39 PM
This thread needs a pic!

I want to see more of this in the future:

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_UkLNCxT74w4/TQ5g2AEeyZI/AAAAAAABNrk/Ae-1PgPLzO4/2010-12-18%20Kelly%20Olynyk%20Baylor%20Robert%20Sacre.jpg

Or maybe two?

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_UkLNCxT74w4/TQ5g3NzHjoI/AAAAAAABOI8/CpnmGA1hCY0/2010-12-18%20Kelly%20Olynyk%20Baylor%20Smiles.jpg

gamagin
12-20-2010, 03:43 PM
I stand by what I posted. You and some others get away with far more vitriol and language than any of the posters that upset you so much.

I'm willing to learn from you. I tried to explain to you why I do what I do. I am neither angry nor upset, fwiw. I tried to shed a little light on the myths piling up around KO. And the myth makers.

This kid is not our pinata. He is on our team. Deserving of respect, even when he's flopping around doing his damnedest to grow into that birthday suit that outgrew him fairly suddenly.

And I am very happy he is where he is and I try to laugh with him without laughing at him or deriding him, even though his play is sometimes more than worthy of critical analysis.

Birddog
12-20-2010, 04:03 PM
FWIW, I understood Gamagin's post for what he meant it to be. In fact, I thought the horn honking analogy was right on. It's one thing to give a little toot or even pretty loud honk, but the repeated laying on the horn gets old.

Bombs over Zaghdad
12-20-2010, 04:04 PM
Gamagin,

Thanks for the clarification.

Just wanted to make sure it wasn't me who caused the car wreck that was backing all this traffic up, causing multiple "honkers."

I will say that this has created some great conversations that have been much more enjoyable than the typical "bashing" as of late.

Sounds like most of us think Kelly is a strong player on his way up.

Great pics!