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View Full Version : The Improvements I saw tonight



Reborn
12-11-2010, 11:49 PM
1. Harris with 19 in 24 minutes, and shot 6-9. 6-6 from the free throw line. Now if he can begin to play defense real soon, the Zags become a tougher team to beat.

2. 83% foul shooting. The BIG problem was we were not getting there enough. We only shot 12 FTs. Sacred shot 0, and Gray 2. This is an area we need to improve in, and Few needs to DEMAND Gray start driving to the hoop more and stop pulling up for that 6 footer.

3. We hit 11 three's tonight. About time. And shot 55% from the beyond the 3 pt line. Manny Arop was 4-5 from behind the arc. I said he could stroke it from behind the arc.

4. Manny Arop was a huge improvement, and played the way he did against Marquette. He played better tonight I thought. When he guarded their point guard he looked terrific. He kind of reminded me of Brandon Roy, a former Husky who often guarded an opponents pg. This occured when Meech and Carter were both out, and we went from 13 down to 4 down with those two guys on the bench.

5. 9 turnovers and 20 assists. Pretty darn good.

Its all about improving each week now. Harris needs to get into shape so he can play defense. I think he will get into shape by conference play.

hooter73
12-12-2010, 03:34 AM
1. Harris with 19 in 24 minutes, and shot 6-9. 6-6 from the free throw line. Now if he can begin to play defense real soon, the Zags become a tougher team to beat.

2. 83% foul shooting. The BIG problem was we were not getting there enough. We only shot 12 FTs. Sacred shot 0, and Gray 2. This is an area we need to improve in, and Few needs to DEMAND Gray start driving to the hoop more and stop pulling up for that 6 footer.

3. We hit 11 three's tonight. About time. And shot 55% from the beyond the 3 pt line. Manny Arop was 4-5 from behind the arc. I said he could stroke it from behind the arc.

4. Manny Arop was a huge improvement, and played the way he did against Marquette. He played better tonight I thought. When he guarded their point guard he looked terrific. He kind of reminded me of Brandon Roy, a former Husky who often guarded an opponents pg. This occured when Meech and Carter were both out, and we went from 13 down to 4 down with those two guys on the bench.

5. 9 turnovers and 20 assists. Pretty darn good.

Its all about improving each week now. Harris needs to get into shape so he can play defense. I think he will get into shape by conference play.

decent run down and i am loving the foul shooting percentage after last years ridiculous numbers.

3's are starting to get there although you still dont have the Bouldin, Ravio, Downs type confidence that it is just going to go in. I figure by middle WCC time Arop and MM will be showing more complete offensive packages and we will [I]feel[I] more confident in them. Its taking some time but we are getting there.

Rebounding has picked up which gives hope that changes are being made. PG anything (specifically assists), passing and defense I fear will be the last things that we will see any improvement on though.

TacomaZAG
12-12-2010, 06:12 AM
It looks like someone (Coach Daniels??) has Rob's ear, as his post moves were much improved against ND. Catch-Turn-Shoot (repeat) should be his mantra the rest of the year. That way he is very difficult to double and doesn't turn the ball over nearly as much. He stopped the dribbling and bringing the ball down after the first early turnover.

He also seemed to pass out of the post (double team & otherwise) a lot better last night.

More minutes for Arop and Carter, they can only get better as they get battle tested.

Go ZAGS

Birddog
12-12-2010, 08:31 AM
He stopped the dribbling and bringing the ball down after the first early turnover.
Yep, he put it on the floor and promptly got stripped. I liked the change after that. This was his best game in recent memory. IMO


More minutes for Arop and Carter, they can only get better as they get battle tested
Arop has shown an upside, hell he flat out demonstrated his ability. Carter not so much, I'm not keen on a big upside from what I've seen so far.

Knotsolucky
12-12-2010, 08:37 AM
It looks like someone (Coach Daniels??) has Rob's ear, as his post moves were much improved against ND. Catch-Turn-Shoot (repeat) should be his mantra the rest of the year. That way he is very difficult to double and doesn't turn the ball over nearly as much. He stopped the dribbling and bringing the ball down after the first early turnover.

He also seemed to pass out of the post (double team & otherwise) a lot better last night.

Go ZAGS

I couldn't agree more with you TZ. Sacre played very smart throughout this game. It appears that he's learning he's way more effective with the ball up high. I was very pleased with his game last night.

deathchina
12-12-2010, 08:40 AM
Arop really needs to work on his handle. It's pretty awful right now. He can't take anyone off the dribble without risking a turnover. That being said, he provides effort on the boards, makes open 3's, and can score garbage points. He is also the only guy on the team (besides Harris) that can elevate above the crowd for a rebound.

I still think he's a year away from being a really really solid player. He can definitely get there though.

NEC26
12-12-2010, 08:51 AM
Only 9 turnovers was a huge improvement. Probably the best thing I saw out of that game. Gray cut way down on his silly passes and Sacre did better holding on to the ball as well. Plus the entry passes to him were better and ND wasn't packing the paint area like WSU was.
Carter got a lot of run and wasn't too bad as he wasn't forcing it too much. I think we will be seeing more and more of him as the season progresses. Looked like the coaches wanted to give him playing time to me.

bballbeachbum
12-12-2010, 09:53 AM
52.7% 55.0% 83.3%

21 assists, 9 TOs

not sure on Carter, but I hope; loved it when he took it straight down the lane and tried to hammer it, and he shows flashes of being able to hang defensively; casual ball handler so far seems to me, attention to that detail and he can do better

75Zag
12-12-2010, 10:29 AM
Sacre looked MUCH improved over his last few games.

The Bulldog offense looks and flows better without KO. I hope he improves, but for now I like to see him on the bench rather than on the court.

I thought Goodson played pretty well and he seemed to see opportunities developing around him and in the low post area better than he has the past few games.

Go Bulldogs!

Reborn
12-12-2010, 10:36 AM
Arop really needs to work on his handle. It's pretty awful right now. He can't take anyone off the dribble without risking a turnover. That being said, he provides effort on the boards, makes open 3's, and can score garbage points. He is also the only guy on the team (besides Harris) that can elevate above the crowd for a rebound.

I still think he's a year away from being a really really solid player. He can definitely get there though.

Outside of Harris, Arop is the next best penetrator, a guy who takes it to the rack. He scored twice last night taking it inside and scoring, and was fouled once and made both free throws. Thats six points "taking his man off the dribble." Manny has the most diverse set of moves of anyone on this team. Steven could, if he would take it all the way to the hoop, but he doesn't. And you call offensive rebounding and scoring "garbage." Ha ha ha ha. No wonder no other Zag can score off offensive rebounding accept Harris. Where are Sacre, Olynyk, Dower and Monninghoff when it comes time for offensive putbacks, or even offensive rebounding for the matter.

Also at times Steven can soar high into the air to get a rebound. For him I think it depends on who he is guarding. He spent a lot of energy last night on guarding Hansbrough, who's Notre Dame's best scorer and holding him down pretty well.

pbriz
12-12-2010, 10:58 AM
I think the way certain guys are playing its time for this lineup.

Gray, Monninghof, Arop, Harris, Sacre.

This lineup allows spacing of the floor with 1-4 being able to hit threes. Gray, Arop, and Harris can slash and Sacre will have space to work the interior due to our 3 pt threats. This lineup can rebound and will be very tough to get shots over. Goodson, Dower, and Olynyk can come off the bench.

8 person lineup. That's it. It's time Few-let's give this a shot!

Reborn
12-12-2010, 11:23 AM
Honestly, I think Mike Hart deserves the minutes that Olynyk is getting. Mike Hart is a perfect sub, who can come in for 3 or 4 minutes and not hurt a team at all because he plays tough defense (will take a charge too), and is a consumate team player. We need someone like him on the court when guys like Harris need a break. So far, from my observation point, when Olynyk is on the court (especially if he's on the court the same time Monninghoff is), the Zags go backwards and begin falling behind or falling behind further. I do not think Olynyk is a good sub for Harris. He is showing that he can not defend the power forwards. He is way too slow now that he has gained the weight. He now seems best fit for the low post position, but he really does not help there on defense either. Olynyk is just not a good defender right now. When Olynyk and Monningoff are on the floor together, the slide backwards happens rather quickly.

I also like Arop coming off the bench. He brings great bench scoring, instant offense, and some good defense, which a great team needs. Manny got 32 mintues off the bench and that's what's needed. I thought the rotations yesterday were very good for the most part. I would have exchanged Dower's mintues for Olynyk's.

VinnyZag
12-12-2010, 11:58 AM
I thought Olynyk played OK, actually. By which I mean: He just played, without stopping to think every time he caught the ball.

20 assists on 29 made field goals. Arop showed up. Gray, Arop and others mostly took Hansbrough out of the game until the end, showing they were able to execute a defensive game plan.

GU lost because they played a zone - poorly - for a couple minutes and gave up eight straight points to Abromitis. And because there was a stretch in the second half when neither Gray nor Harris was on the floor due to foul trouble. Can't have that. And because they only got three offensive rebounds on 26 missed field goal attempts and two missed free throw attempts.

That was a step forward. GU played better than it has in any game this year except Marquette, but the bounces didn't go their way. They lost, yes, but this game is actually a confidence builder. I feel much better now about WCC play.

bballbeachbum
12-12-2010, 12:10 PM
Honestly, I think Mike Hart deserves the minutes that Olynyk is getting. Mike Hart is a perfect sub, who can come in for 3 or 4 minutes and not hurt a team at all because he plays tough defense (will take a charge too), and is a consumate team player. We need someone like him on the court when guys like Harris need a break. So far, from my observation point, when Olynyk is on the court (especially if he's on the court the same time Monninghoff is), the Zags go backwards and begin falling behind or falling behind further. I do not think Olynyk is a good sub for Harris. He is showing that he can not defend the power forwards. He is way too slow now that he has gained the weight. He now seems best fit for the low post position, but he really does not help there on defense either. Olynyk is just not a good defender right now. When Olynyk and Monningoff are on the floor together, the slide backwards happens rather quickly.

I also like Arop coming off the bench. He brings great bench scoring, instant offense, and some good defense, which a great team needs. Manny got 32 mintues off the bench and that's what's needed. I thought the rotations yesterday were very good for the most part. I would have exchanged Dower's mintues for Olynyk's.

another nice thing about Manny off the bench is that Monninghoff is in the right places to start the game on both ends of the floor, whether he makes the plays because of that or not. GU had a good start last night, much better spacing helped that happen, yes? Would love for that to be Manny though, period, from the tip.

and why not Hart more? every player on the floor does not need to be a scorer, especially if they bring it in other phases. Hart does not play hesitantly, a great quality to contribute for this team. that kid's aggressive, looks like he believes in himself out there, and it shows in whatever minutes he gets

ZagLawGrad
12-12-2010, 12:25 PM
The thing that stood out for me was the intensity with which the team played during the last 2 minutes. We need to see that same thing for a full game.

Hoopaholic
12-12-2010, 04:15 PM
so they didnt show intensity the first 5-6 minutes of the game when they had a solid lead?


Reborn you are correct. Gray didnt guard ND Stud only when Meech was out of the game. Meech started on him and the kid was flustered, pushing and had nothing to take the ball to the hole with. When Meech subbed out, Gray moved over to ND stud and Gray had to spend extra energy guarding him......


I thought for the most part we played very well. Bounce here, rebound there or a made shot or two (such as missed layups and normally made open looks) we have a different ballgame.

Much better and improvement was seen from my perspective.

Also notice kids were having "fun", more lively and more intense which was nice to see.

Zag Man
12-12-2010, 05:06 PM
I was off to a Christmas program last night and didnít see the Zags play until after getting home, but I was extremely pleased with their effort. The team never quit out there and really wanted to win! They showed desire and courage in the game, and I want to congratulate them on a noble effort.

I thought Rob played an outstanding game and gave Notre Dame fits inside. Elias is really coming around and finished well at the rim and, when he got fouled, he made his freethrows. I especially loved Mannyís passion out there. During one of the timeouts, he was screaming encouragement to the other players and being a vocal leader, plus he played a smart game and rebounded beautifully! We really need that from him every game. Meech did not have a good offensive game, but he took care of the ball and played his usual great defense. I especially liked his intensity at the end of the game when he made quick fouls trying to save time and salvage the game. Sam Dower didnít get much action in this game, but his run-in with the ND player after that rebound which resulted in a double technical I thought set the tone for the Zags. We arenít taking any crap from Notre Dame! I was proud of this team tonight and many victories lay ahead with similar efforts like we had last night! Again, congratulations!

jim77
12-12-2010, 05:20 PM
I think the way certain guys are playing its time for this lineup.

Gray, Monninghof, Arop, Harris, Sacre.

This lineup allows spacing of the floor with 1-4 being able to hit threes. Gray, Arop, and Harris can slash and Sacre will have space to work the interior due to our 3 pt threats. This lineup can rebound and will be very tough to get shots over. Goodson, Dower, and Olynyk can come off the bench.

8 person lineup. That's it. It's time Few-let's give this a shot!

I'd like to see what this lineup could do against our next opponent. I agree with Reborn on Arop....his handles sure looked good cutting to the hoop. In fact, I'd say Arop might be the best all around guy on the team. I still love Meech's energy but, his refusal to shoot is troubling. You talk about making it easier for the defense..its one thing to shoot and miss...but now the defense knows that besides a rush to the hoop he won't even attempt a shot. The above lineup with Gray/MM/Arop I think we have enough handles...and a heck of a lot more firepower....not to mention a longer D reach to curb those 3's......this line up also features guys with QUICK feet. This lineup is worth a try and heck....we still have our regular PG's ready if needed.

BobZag
12-12-2010, 05:39 PM
The effort was much better, the execution took a step forward, it was just a far better overall game by the guys. Now they must not allow themselves to take any step backwards, not even against Baylor in Dallas in six days. Ball movement was quicker, snappier, just better. There was one lapse after the guys tied it at 50, and that was probably the difference in the game. Keep working on the D, keep the offense simple and get it clicking, and bring a tougher attitude/mindset. Plenty of time to do these things.

By far the least knee-jerk reaction thread on the board.

gamagin
12-12-2010, 05:52 PM
I thought Olynyk played OK, actually. By which I mean: He just played, without stopping to think every time he caught the ball.

20 assists on 29 made field goals. Arop showed up. Gray, Arop and others mostly took Hansbrough out of the game until the end, showing they were able to execute a defensive game plan.

GU lost because they played a zone - poorly - for a couple minutes and gave up eight straight points to Abromitis. And because there was a stretch in the second half when neither Gray nor Harris was on the floor due to foul trouble. Can't have that. And because they only got three offensive rebounds on 26 missed field goal attempts and two missed free throw attempts.

That was a step forward. GU played better than it has in any game this year except Marquette, but the bounces didn't go their way. They lost, yes, but this game is actually a confidence builder. I feel much better now about WCC play.

good post and analysis. thanks.

DADoZAG
12-13-2010, 06:32 AM
By far the least knee-jerk reaction thread on the board.

...but it took a while to find it.

Meech kept his dribble. Rob didn't dribble.

Olynyk looked less like a dork, must be finding himself. Still a ways to go.

Folks got back on D better, 'cept for Harris and Dower. They still struggle and it ain't 'cuase they ain't tryin', or don't have heart, or whatever. Just a ways to go.

This game at home has a different outcome, fewer ZAGS in foul trouble.

As others said, more playing, less thinking was nice to see.

And you're right Bob. KISS it baby and let these young men play...

Go ZAGS!

Edited to add: For Rob, it's as if Donny D told him, "If you feel like you need to dribble, pass the ball back out."

Reborn
12-13-2010, 06:02 PM
A lot of well-thought-out posts here guys. Thanks. One thing I noticed when I was watching the game over again was that during that 2 or 3 minute stretch when Gray and Harris went out of the game because of foul trouble, Few had Meech, Carter and Olynyk in. I have a hard time understanding this decision by Few. We had no offensive firepower in the game at all accept for Sacre and he never saw the ball once in this particular stretch of the game and Carter and Meech went 0-for six, Carter missing 4 shots during this stretch. Another thing to point out is that there was not a single pass made on any of the shots, and they were what I'd call BAD SHOTS. Since we were obviously going to need some offense, would not having Dower and Monninghoff in the game make more sense?

This is what needs to be looked at in terms of roles on the team. Why did neither Sacre or Arop (who obviously had the hot hands in this game) get a single shot during this stretch? These would have been the last two guys I would have hoped would be taking shots. I think Monninghoff should have been in there. Personally, I do not see any reason at all for Carter and Meech to be on the floor at the same time. Sometimes I really wonder what Few is thinking about. This was stretch of the game where the Zags were defeated. I hope Mark Few learns an important lesson from this game. There will be other games where Gray gets into Foul trouble.