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Spokanicoug
12-08-2010, 10:19 PM
Continuing the trend of last season. 84" of invisibility. Should legally change his name to Robert Softcre.

adoptedzag
12-08-2010, 10:30 PM
Continuing the trend of last season. 84" of invisibility. Should legally change his name to Robert Softcre.

For a guy who "spent a lot of time in the weight room" this summer, he gained the slowness from the added weight, but I'm not seeing the strength. If I'm 7' and 250+ and a 6'6" guard comes over to try and block my shot, I'm putting that guard on the floor. There's no excuse for getting blocked like that.

kyle dixon
12-08-2010, 10:42 PM
Way to stay classy! Seriously? Necessary?

CDC84
12-08-2010, 11:06 PM
I have never ever thought Rob Sacre was soft. I have never understood that take on him.

He's slow and can't jump. JP Batista was slow as well, but Rob doesn't possess a great shooting touch and the kind of A+ level fundamentals necessary to be a good big man despite physical shortcomings. He still resorts to too many bad habits.

EngineerZag
12-08-2010, 11:10 PM
Sacre has actually been our most consistent performer this year. Those two quick fouls in the first half that limited his action were both complete BS. That first one - you've gotta be kidding me - that block was as clean as it gets and he did a beautiful job twisting his body around the player to avoid contact. I don't think he even touched his hand! And the second foul which was a complete flop was also ridiculous. Bad officiating on both ends tonight IMO.

And then even when he was playing, he was getting hacked and shoved every time he touched with the ball and not getting a lot of calls when it happened. There was one time he was very blantantly shoved in the back when trying to get a pass and it resulted in a TO with no call. I was furious.

tobizag
12-08-2010, 11:11 PM
I have never ever thought Rob Sacre was soft. I have never understood that take on him.



i think we all know he's not soft on D. he's soft on offense. too many fade aways, too many weak moves. not enough savage-man-dunks.

zagzilla
12-08-2010, 11:11 PM
Continuing the trend of last season. 84" of invisibility. Should legally change his name to Robert Softcre.

You should leave now Spokanicoug. Head out to kegger and then go cow tipping.

NEC26
12-09-2010, 05:35 AM
Bigs are reliant on guards to feed them. Sacre has played well this season, but he would look a lot better if he had better guards opening things up with their shots and then delivering good passes into the post.

THIS! Our Bigs haven't gotten worse our point guard situation has.

scott257
12-09-2010, 06:25 AM
I think Spokanicoug is just pointing out the obvious. Sacre doesn't provide any evidence that he can play like a dominant big man. If you recorded the game just take a look at the first time he had the ball in the paint last night. He had the ball at his waist and was tied up by a much smaller player. It is just sad.

Birddog
12-09-2010, 06:58 AM
I think Sacre is playing better defensively this year and he's less prone to fouls except for last night's 1st half when he was whistled for two that were questionable. Offensively, he hasn't progressed much, and from the looks of how teams are defending him, there must be an instructional video up on YouTube. Everybody does the same thing and it works every time, just like the way they exploit the Zag's lack of 3 pt defense. The missed flush and the block against Sacre last night were just horrible, even Marques couldn't hold back criticism.

Schmitty
12-09-2010, 07:27 AM
Until Sacre, Harris, or one of the other big men actually steps up and sends a message to opposing teams entering the paint (see Casto vs. Olenyk), they will all be considered soft.

As for the PG's not getting the ball Sacre... knowing what Robert does with the ball when he gets it can you blame them?

zag944
12-09-2010, 08:03 AM
if he catches it that is

U Zig, I Zag
12-09-2010, 08:06 AM
This is the summary of Rob, for me:

Rob grabbed a rebound and bobbled it TO HIMSELF, THREE TIMES. He was essentially alone. When he finally got a hold of it he was in the same old wide stance - teetering on falling over and looking to pass it in a panic. He doesn't have an instinct for the ball. The points he gets are most likely coming from the line. He doesn't have soft hands, quick feet and an arsenal of instictive basketball moves that goes to. He is a black hole a good % of the time. He almost gets his points/boards inspite of his size, not because of it. There is no reason that a 7-foot guy built like him should be dropping the ball down low, getting blocked by a 6'7 guy on a TWO HANDED DUNK.

I am getting sick of watching it, frankly.

Play Sam first, Rob second. Sam can do everything Rob can do and do it better. Rob is not a defensive presence, he is just a body. Sam can do that and maybe get a sense of urgency being on the floor more. Sam can put it on the deck. He is a legitimate shooter from the 3-pt line in. He can go both left and right and he puts the ball in the hoop.

EuroZag2010
12-09-2010, 08:08 AM
Sacre has one good game, one bad game ex. Illnois game - good game - wsu horrible he had a decent game against Kansas st and a rough start against Marquette correct me if I'm wrong ...what's with the up and downs but I guess it all comes to guard play alot of our players look lost and outta place

roxdoc
12-09-2010, 08:10 AM
Coach Daniels does not seem to have had much of an impact...hard to teach old dogs new tricks?

Spokanicoug
12-09-2010, 12:34 PM
i think we all know he's not soft on D. he's soft on offense. too many fade aways, too many weak moves. not enough savage-man-dunks.

This

Rbo
12-09-2010, 01:01 PM
Continuing the trend of last season. 84" of invisibility. Should legally change his name to Robert Softcre.

I don't buy that one bit. He brought it against Illinois at BIS, but got very little help from his teammates on defensive switches. It's hard to be a beast underneath and guard the bigs when they're draining threes at the same time.

JohnOGU
12-09-2010, 01:09 PM
Sacre is soft...You would never guess by looking at him.

One thing i will say for him...If he went after rebounds and tried to score with the same intensity as when he goes for shot blocks, he'd be incredible.

That guy explodes when trying to block shots.

Zag79
12-09-2010, 07:07 PM
Until Sacre, Harris, or one of the other big men actually steps up and sends a message to opposing teams entering the paint (see Casto vs. Olenyk), they will all be considered soft.

As for the PG's not getting the ball Sacre... knowing what Robert does with the ball when he gets it can you blame them?

Blaming the pg for a 7 footer shooting 40% is a joke. He misses dunks, layups, gets blocked, and bobbles alot of passes... give me a break. I like sacre and I think he will be good for the most part, but it's ridiculous to read these kind of posts. That's like saying meech isn't good at threes because sacre isn't a good passer. :roll: wow. The things people come up with to blame someone. Sacre needs to get better on offense, period. 5 shots in a game? That wont cut it. He's tough on defense, a solid rebounder, but needs to get 15+ a game no question. He has the ability, it's time to want it more.

Birddog
12-09-2010, 08:09 PM
He has the ability, it's time to want it more.

He has the POTENTIAL

ZagLawGrad
12-09-2010, 10:01 PM
Sacre's problem? For every 2 good things he does on the court, he throws in 5 knucklehead things. At the end of the game, good things don't have much shine.

TwoCatsOne
12-10-2010, 12:17 AM
I donít post often, but I do read the board frequently. I donít think I can recall a time where there has been such a hue and cry about the team; however anyone who has been paying attention should not be surprised. Pomeroy projected this would happen and the pundits warn us of the difficultly of the schedule, yet the fans stand amazed that the Zags are losing.


With all of Robís deficiencies, he still remains the second highest scorer on the team and according to statsheet.com, he ranks 24th in the nation for Offensive Rebounding Percentage. That said, of course there is lots room for improvement. I imagine that Rob would be the first to admit that. Reviewing the game tapes must be an excruciatingly painful time for everyone on the team Ė especially for those who have aspirations to go pro.

I am sure Rob knows he canít jump; Goodson knows he canít shoot and so forth down entire team. Piling on the negative comments is simply white noise. The more poignant question is what is Few going to do to salvage the situation?

Isolating anyone player for blame may provide a way for a fan to vent their frustrations, but the reality is that this is a systemic failure.

jim77
12-10-2010, 12:35 AM
If Sacre can duplicate the shot he made early in the second half he'd be unstoppable. He caught it high..kept it high..turned and shot it straight in while the defender could do nothing. There also was no time for anybody to double him. The coach needs to replay it for him and the team 500 times so they can duplicate it..it was a beauty

tobizag
12-10-2010, 10:38 AM
If Sacre can duplicate the shot he made early in the second half he'd be unstoppable. He caught it high..kept it high..turned and shot it straight in while the defender could do nothing. There also was no time for anybody to double him. The coach needs to replay it for him and the team 500 times so they can duplicate it..it was a beauty

+1

SteeleMan
12-10-2010, 10:50 AM
and yet the Cougs would love to have him! If Rob was a Coug WSU "might" be in the top 25 and "might" be undefeated now and "might" be considered a contender for P10 champions.

EuroZag2010
12-10-2010, 10:53 AM
and yet the Cougs would love to have him! If Rob was a Coug WSU "might" be in the top 25 and "might" be undefeated now and "might" be considered a contender for P10 champions.

Did they recruit him?

SteeleMan
12-10-2010, 11:00 AM
Did they recruit him?

Don't believe so.... not hard anyway that I recall.

Edited to note: When Bone was with U of W he recruited Rob per Meehan's "The Day After" notes on SR.COM.

"SACRE on WSU: “It’s a lot faster than what it was in the past (under ex-coaches Dick and Tony Bennett), that’s (because of) Coach Bone. He’s a good coach, he knows his Xs and Os. He recruited me (when he was an assistant at Washington). We just have to find a way to respond.”"

http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2010/dec/09/day-after-wsu/

stretchlimo
12-10-2010, 12:16 PM
Sacre has one good game, one bad game ex. Illnois game - good game - wsu horrible he had a decent game against Kansas st and a rough start against Marquette correct me if I'm wrong ...what's with the up and downs

I think it's mostly about matchups & opposing strategy. Generally speaking, the teams Rob has had the most success against are those with big front lines, where the coach might be more willing to take the chance of defending Rob straight up. Some of Rob's better games last year:

Mich State: 17 pts (in only 19 mins)
Wisky: 13 pts (in only 20 mins)
Cincy: 14 pts
Illinois: 19 pts
Fla State: 13 pts

And already this season:
SD State: 13 pts & 11 rbs
K State: 17 & 4
Illinois: 15 & 10

While I can't give a blanket statement of the defensive strategy of all these teams, I can say they all had good size on the front line and were generally more willing to try and defend Rob straight up. And when Rob has time to work in the post one-on-one, he can be extremely effective.

On the flip side, Rob avg'd only 7.8 ppg in the 16 games against WCC teams last year, where not only do the teams not have the size to match up, they also - from a coaching & strategy standpoint - have the familiarity and knowledge of how to best defend Rob. And of course that strategy is to collapse with an extra defender as quickly as possible.

As it related to the Wazzu game, gotta give Bone credit. Casto, who is easily WSU's most physical presence, and who started 30 of 31 games last year, did not start against GU. You'd think Bone would want the best physical matchup against Rob, right? Nope. Not when the strategy was to zone and collapse on Rob. And on the other end of the court? Casto scored all 8 of his points when Rob was on the bench. In fact, the sub patterns were such that Casto was rarely on the court at the same time Rob was - less than six minutes. Not saying this was the key to the rout - just a clever piece of the puzzle.

------------------------------------------

Regardless of matchups, Rob is still our best frontcourt defender. By a wide margin, IMO. Not only is he our most physical presence in the paint, he is also our best big at showing on perimeter ball screens, and also our best big to have against a smaller/quicker player if we have to switch on those screens (no other big gets in a better D stance than Rob, nor do they appear as willing/capable to move their feet like Rob does). But considering how much trouble we've had with ball screen/perimeter defense, this is not so much a high compliment for Rob as it is a reflection of how much our other bigs lag in this area.

Still, even with Rob being our most experienced and best defending big, I hope to see Sam's PT increase as we get closer to conference play. Once the WCC starts, the matchups and strategy we face will be more favorable for a guy who has a quicker trigger in the post.

Mantua
12-10-2010, 01:33 PM
Daniels came in with a rep for making monsters out of bigs. I've seen none of that this year. The bigs all have butter fingers. Sacre and Kelly are practically instant turnover machines. Elias won't condescend to pass to anyone. Manny can board like crazy when he wants to, but he is a tremendous liability in the open court. Dower needs more minutes and shouldn't be penalized for every celebratory gesture. Beware, in Rob's case the box score tends to look quite a bit better than his actual performance. The turnovers are just part of the puzzle.
His judgement is extremely poor. Under the Daniels watch there has been a big time regression in front court play, unfortunately. Gotta blame someone.

It's getting to be difficult to ignore that there is some truth in your opinion.

Birddog
12-10-2010, 08:15 PM
Here's a nice training video for our bigs to study.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gG4W0L41FI

btzag
12-10-2010, 08:31 PM
Rob would be a lot more effective if he had ANY help inside. If Harris was playing at an AA level you would not see constant double and triple teams on an average to above averge player. But the fact is the Zags are getting nothing from the 4 or even the 3 which allows teams to collapse inside on Rob and he is struggling with it. Let's be real though, Rob is a four year guy who has turned into a nice consistent above average player. He has great size and some nice moves but he is not a Turiaf or Batista or Calvary and dominate games.

I honestly feel sorry for Rob and Steven because they are playing well but 2 on 5 is not a good matchup. This is still a team game.....unless you have Morrison and Batista on your team.....

Ezag
12-11-2010, 12:07 PM
Rob would be effective if he could hold onto the ball, dunk with authority and move 2x faster than he does. It looks like he is in slow motion every time he gets the ball.

Rob is not better than last year and Coach Daniels has not made 1 bit of difference with Rob. Take a look at his stats again last year compared to this year. He came out like gang busters at the beginning of last season but was inconsistent after about the first 7 games or so and is about the same at this point.

jyboc
12-11-2010, 01:39 PM
Not to defend ayone, because Rob's hands suck and the way he brings the ball down has been discussed too much already. Unfortunately, I don't think we can change either of those things. But seriously, when has coach Daniels had time to change anything with Rob or Kelly(who is even worse)? They were both gone with the Canadian team, so who really made Rob worse?