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View Full Version : It's not Harris' injury that's slowing him IMO



ZagsObserver
12-08-2010, 09:16 PM
I don't think it's Elias' injury that's necessarily slowing him down. That could be playing a role, but I don't see that as his main issue. Harris gained weight over the summer, and he lost his explosiveness. This is what happened to Heytvelt too. Heytvelt was never a standard back-to-the-basket type player. When he put on weight, it slowed him down, and he was unable to live up to his promise when he was slimmer and faster. I hope that's not the case with Harris, but it sure does seem like the case IMO.

hooter73
12-08-2010, 09:19 PM
injury doesnt help but i still think he is just scouted at this point. same moves from the same places every time can be countered.

ZagHouse
12-08-2010, 09:24 PM
He has to get the ball in order to show what he can do. He looked explosive against Illinois in the first half. How often are Gray and Meech playing catch because no one seems to know how to make an entry pass in to the post. They have to practice playing against the Zone. It seemed weird that none of the players on the floor had any sort of idea on how to attack it. At least against Syracuse, Few had Harris roaming the baseline and his play was able to keep us in it for awhile. Where was the game plan?

zagfan16
12-08-2010, 09:25 PM
injury doesnt help but i still think he is just scouted at this point. same moves from the same places every time can be countered.

That doesn't account for the lack of aggression or hustle. He seems fairly disinterested in rebounding, last year he played like he was on fire, he stood out on the floor.

jazzdelmar
12-08-2010, 09:26 PM
actually both harris and olynyk look fat...and sacre has put on a few....

ZagsObserver
12-08-2010, 09:28 PM
Weight isn't necessarily a bad thing, and in some cases it can be helpful in the paint. However, when you rely on explosiveness and quickness like Harris, it would seem to detract from his strengths.

CDC84
12-08-2010, 09:31 PM
Elias has had too much of a drop off for his mediocrity to be blamed on weight gain and good defensive scouting reports. There are still flashes of his explosiveness in games. Even if you argue that weight gain didn't help Heytvelt, Josh was still a hell of a lot more consistently productive than what we are seeing from Elias right now. I just don't think a little extra muscle or extra defensive attention can damage a player this severely. He's too dang good of a player.

I think Elias has an injury where the foot feels good one minute, and then his foot seizes. Which is why he looks really good at times, and then he vanishes. I'm starting to feel that he just needs to be shut down because his inconsistency is doing nothing to help the team. I don't see how his heel is going to get healthy if he keeps playing in games.

zagfan16
12-08-2010, 09:35 PM
I think Elias has an injury where the foot feels good one minute, and then his foot seizes. Which is why he looks really good at times, and then he vanishes.

I haven't noticed a limp other than the SDSU game when he first injured it. He wasn't so hot before the injury anyway.

bigparb
12-08-2010, 09:43 PM
He has to get the ball in order to show what he can do. He looked explosive against Illinois in the first half. How often are Gray and Meech playing catch because no one seems to know how to make an entry pass in to the post. They have to practice playing against the Zone. It seemed weird that none of the players on the floor had any sort of idea on how to attack it. At least against Syracuse, Few had Harris roaming the baseline and his play was able to keep us in it for awhile. Where was the game plan?

Spot on ZagHouse.....I'm getting sick and tired of seeing Harris go 10-15 minutes without touching the ball on offense.....and then when he does touch it, it's usually not in a spot for him to make a play......I may have to start a thread about this bull####...it certainly deserves one....

The sad part about this Zag team is that it appears that we have no idea how to score the ball in the half-court.....there is no plan the I can see.....it's a joke.........If I see gray swing the ball to the other side of the court just as EH is spinning and locking his guy down on the block I'm going to come unglued.......

Unfortunately, this falls on fEw's shoulders.....he has to be able to call a TO if needed and demand a set be run...........I'm not going to attack few here....the guys had great success and no one can argue with that.......but damn....we can't just stand around on offense and wait for steven to jack up a 3.........were are the other guys at.....I'm begging for someone else to step and talk a frickin jumper.....Manny quit passing #### up.....Meech needs to step up and take a couple--not one--a couple of shot....Kelly....Hoff....dang....these guys need to grow a set and get aggressive......

maybe that's what it comes down to for me.......I understand da Zags won't win every game....but were's the heart, the passion, the aggressiveness.......lose and leave everything on the court..........playing w/o passion is unacceptable IMO......

I'll edit this later...don't have the patience and I'm certainly not calm enough to do it now......

oh and the Cougs looked good.......Thompson sure has gotten better over the last year....wow

Pargo the Destroyer
12-08-2010, 09:47 PM
Preach bigparb! Agree 1 million percent.

CDC84
12-08-2010, 09:47 PM
I haven't noticed a limp other than the SDSU game when he first injured it. He wasn't so hot before the injury anyway.

He wasn't so hot before the SDSU game because his freaking shoulder was a mess. He couldn't scrimmage. He missed almost every team practice prior to the season starting. The bottom line is that he was and still isn't ready to play in games.

You don't have to limp like your leg is broken for an injury to effect you. So much of his game revolves around his first step and his athleticism. His foot just seizes during games to the point where he is rendered ineffective. He can't rebound on the offensive glass or anything. You add that to his lack of practice time, and it's a bloody miracle that he can do anything at all.

I truly feel sorry for the kid. He has got to be so frustrated with the way this season has gone. His shoulder is still banged up, he's missed 90% of GU practices, and he can't rely on his feet to make an offensive move or collect a rebound in traffic. This was not what he was hoping to experience his sophomore season.

RenoZag
12-08-2010, 09:49 PM
I truly feel sorry for the kid. He has got to be so frustrated with the way this season has gone. His shoulder is banged up, he's missed 90% of GU practices, and he can't rely on his feet to make an offensive move or collect a rebound in traffic. It's not his fault.


You left out " . . .and he doesn't have a point guard who can get him the rock."

MDABE80
12-08-2010, 11:23 PM
He's had a difficult start to the season with his shoulder and his achilles ( not so sure that's what it is)....He's not been in shape yet.
When a kid misses SO much work, it's hard to imagine him getting in game shape. He's got some work to do if the ankle joint doesn't act up. I think he's staying out of the rough and tumble because he just can't reliably be there. Whether he trusts his ankle or not, he's just not the kid from last year.

Elias knows he must have a superior season to leave for a good contract in Europe or in the NBA. It's just not there for him right now.

I'm not sure how many games he's played but if he cannot even do what he did last year, he might be smarter to sit it out and get himself strong again...even without a diet. He's obviously heavier....that can't help. He's not doing much to help out so he might be advised to sit. Med Redshirts are uncommon but we've had 8 games. Something tells me he's hurt himself with all the pounding in Summers. No matter where he got the injuries, it might be time for him to fess up, own up and sit. He's going nowhere as it is right now. If he has cumulative damage, working harder won't cure it. Spirit's willing but the flesh might be too weak.

Dang it's so hard to get information these days:(

ZagsObserver
12-09-2010, 07:21 AM
+1 mdabe80

U Zig, I Zag
12-09-2010, 07:27 AM
What is the limit that the coaches and school can effect the off-season activities of its players? Because GU needs to push that limit.

Diets, cardio excercise, limit the (seemingly) useless Team Canada, Team Germany, playing time. Every single player, minus Gray at times, is WORSE than they were a year ago.

GTL, baby.

Gym, Training, Layin's - all summer long.

ZagsObserver
12-09-2010, 09:11 AM
I actually think that Sacre has improved, as he's a lot more aggressive on the glass in grabbing boards. But yes, the team as a whole has not progressed. For a freshmen, I like Hoff as well, but we just don't have what we thought we had.

U Zig, I Zag
12-09-2010, 09:15 AM
I actually think that Sacre has improved, as he's a lot more aggressive on the glass in grabbing boards. But yes, the team as a whole has not progressed. For a freshmen, I like Hoff as well, but we just don't have what we thought we had.

Rob actually played better last year on offense. I think he did better with that little turnaround shot. Also, Matt made the floor much bigger and allowed Rob to get some decent passes when he was down low and his guy was fronting him. Matt could get that lob/bounce pass in there. Right now, defenses aren't even trying to front Rob. They are letting him get the ball and trying to strip it.

VinnyZag
12-09-2010, 09:18 AM
They need to shut Harris down until conference play starts. Get him right, and give us an excuse for the inevitable beatdowns that are coming the rest of the noncon season.

JohnOGU
12-09-2010, 10:03 AM
I still think that he's Jeremy Pargo-ing (for lack of a better term) himself by thinking too much about what he needs to do to take things to the next level, instead of playing his game.

zagfan1
12-09-2010, 10:44 AM
No matter how bad his injury. He needs to quit lowering his shoulder in the post against the defender. He will get called for an offensive foul every time he does it. We are supposed to have a good front court. I see Kelly playing like he is 5'9" and taking outside jump shots and playing terrible defense. He needs to stick to the paint and let someone else take care of the outside stuff. Sacre is just not playing smart. He needs to focus on playing with basic fundamentals. He is being a drama queen out there. We need someone to take some outside shots besides Gray. Maybe we will see relief when someone starts hitting those outside shots.

bigparb
12-09-2010, 04:00 PM
Kelly ....needs to stick to the paint and let someone else take care of the outside stuff.

Can't disagree more with this statement and in fact I believe the opposite.

Kelly was 6'2" as a soph in HS if I remember correctly....the kid grew up as a guard.......yes, he's now 7' but he doesn't know how to be a big.....we're trying to force him inside because of his size, but KO doesn't know how to be effective in the paint....it's just not second nature for him. His brain just doesn't seem to understand that he's 7' tall. KO wants to play a perimeter face up game, and god-bless him, the staff should understand this....after all, they ain't no dumbies....

As an example I point to last nights game.....KO grabs a board in the first half right in the middle of the lane about 2 ft from the hoop.....instead of immediately going up and layin it over the rim or dunking the ball, he doesn't even turn to look at the hoop. Instead KO acts like he's still 6'2" down in the lane "with the trees". KO grabbed the ball and in a near panic looked to kick the ball back out to the perimeter. The reason this is so painful is that if he would have just looked at the hoop, all he would have seen is Sacre on his left and Harris on his right, both blocking out a Coug!!!! There was nothing but 2ft of empty space between KO and the rim!!! ARARARARARARHHGHGHGH!!

I say lets run Sacre/Harris/Dower as our 4/5 (here's a little prayer that Sam sees more PT---I don't give a damn if he's makes little mistakes on D, the kid can score and only increased confidence by way of PT with allow this to blossom)......KO can join the rotation of SF's---if he can beat out MM/AROP for PT there, then so be it.....

Rant is complete...if not intelligable....:vomit-smiley-007:

UberZagFan
12-09-2010, 04:55 PM
It's hard to judge Harris' play when Gray or Sacre turn the ball over before Harris can even touch it.

allnet59
12-09-2010, 05:34 PM
the only difference between this year and last was that Matt Boldin was the cog that made this team go. I still don't see a clear cut leader on this team. And until they quit dribbling with their heads down and grow some it won't change. i thought Harrris with his aggressive style and additude would take this team on his shoulders as Steven really isn't a vocal leader. Gonna be a long rough season i'm afraid.