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View Full Version : What will the Zags need to do to Beat WSU



Reborn
12-06-2010, 06:38 AM
WSU plays somewhat like Illinois. They can really shoot from the outside. Hopefully the Zags learned from the Illinois game what they need to do in order to beat the Cougars. The Cougars also play very tough defense, much like Illinois did. I think the Zags need to drive to the basketball more and try to get to the foul line more. The Zags are not great out-side shooters so we could make up for that deficet by getting to the foul line more. I would like to begin to see Steven Gray stop pulling up for that 8 foot jump shot in the key and drive to the basket more. Steven, in my opinion, is not getting to the line enough. The Zags will need to shoot better than 62% from the line as they did agains Illinois.

I think the Zags need to begin to play with a lot more passion than they have been playing with so far. The intensity has to be extended beyond the first half. The Zags have been playing pretty tough and pretty good in the first half, but for some reason I see a big drop in focus and intensity it the second half.

Bogozags
12-06-2010, 08:51 AM
There are a number of things the team will need to improve, if they expect a better outcome here are three simple ones...


Defend the 3 Ball

Reduce TO's

Improve our shooting

Does it look as if Manny is on a "leash," because he just doesn't look as if he is reacting to opportunities...if he makes the wrong move, he gets taken out!?!?!?! Anyone else notice this?

TacomaZAG
12-06-2010, 10:04 AM
Start developing schemes to stop individual teams. For example, against WSU make someone other than Klay Thompson beat you, period. Start out with a box and one (Steven or Manny on Klay) and zone the rest. Cut off the head and see if the body can still work. Adjust from there, in game. Sure, keep sawing wood, but maybe change saws (or blades or chains) once in awhile to account for the different types of wood you're trying to cut.

The generalities (stop the 3, more pressure, more intensity) are all well and good but the players would benefit, IMHO, from some specifics. If our guys have slow feet this year, then how about doing something to minimize this shortcoming.

Go ZAGS

zagitup
12-06-2010, 10:12 AM
1) Acupuncture, magnets, snake oil, whatever it takes to speed up the recovery of Elias Harris.

2) Talk on defense. Hustle on defense. Switch on defense. If you won't do those things, go sit on the bench.

3) GET THE BALL TO ROB, so I don't have to scream at the television anymore!!!

There. That's what it will take.

zagray
12-06-2010, 10:16 AM
My guess is the Cougs will wrap Capers and perhaps Thompson around Gray and double the post hoping to make everyone else beat em. Cougs have no answer for a " healthy" Harris. If Harris is healthy enough for 20 and 8, Zags win.

primal23
12-06-2010, 11:02 AM
Move the game to K2

U Zig, I Zag
12-06-2010, 11:34 AM
Move the game to K2

We are replaying the SDSU game?!!?? :pray:

Oh. :(

primal23
12-06-2010, 02:13 PM
We are replaying the SDSU game?!!?? :pray:

Oh. :(

No I wont be there, so a sure fire W unlike SDSU :p

Coug Tracks
12-06-2010, 02:49 PM
My guess is the Cougs will wrap Capers and perhaps Thompson around Gray and double the post hoping to make everyone else beat em. Cougs have no answer for a " healthy" Harris. If Harris is healthy enough for 20 and 8, Zags win.If WSU could stick around against KSU with their inside players I think they can as well against Harris, Sacre, and the rest of the Zag's.

Guess you already have your excuse built in. It feels more and more like I'm on Dawgman when I visit over here. :(

Zagdawg
12-06-2010, 02:58 PM
Fortunately...an excuse won't be necessary ... you better head back over to hang out with your buddies at dawgman.

Baldwinzag
12-06-2010, 03:07 PM
If WSU could stick around against KSU with their inside players I think they can as well against Harris, Sacre, and the rest of the Zag's.

Really?

First, K-State beat WSU at WSU.

Secondly, the K-State "bigs" out-rebounded the Cougs by +13 rebounds(41-28), grabbed 16 Offensive boards, accounted for over 50% of the point total, and blocked 8 shots.

Nice job sticking with KSU's 'inside players'.

Havind said that, no denying WSU lost in impressive fashion. The Cougs effectively shut down KSU's talented guards & we simply did not:

Pullen vs WSU(8pts)
Spradling vs WSU(6pts)

Pullen vs GU (20pts)
Spradling vs GU (13pts)

Coug Tracks
12-06-2010, 03:15 PM
Really?

First, K-State beat WSU at WSU.

Secondly, the K-State "bigs" out-rebounded the Cougs by +13 rebounds(41-28), grabbed 16 Offensive boards, accounted for over 50% of the point total, and blocked 8 shots.

Nice job sticking with KSU's 'inside players'.
Havind said that, no denying WSU lost in impressive fashion. The Cougs effectively shut down KSU's talented guards & we simply did not:

Pullen vs WSU(8pts)
Spradling vs WSU(6pts)

Pullen vs GU (20pts)
Spradling vs GU (13pts)Point to where I said WSU was able to stick with KSU inside? KSU dominate WSU inside but WSU still had a shot to win that game late.

zagzilla
12-06-2010, 03:15 PM
Zags had ZERO steals and 1 block vs Illinois. Betrays a lack of hustle.

If we don't disrupt their offense, WSU can bomb away too.

Didn't Jerry Krause used to chart deflections, steals, etc... as an indicator of the effort of the team? Maybe need to resurrect that practice.

ZZ

U Zig, I Zag
12-06-2010, 03:27 PM
Zags had ZERO steals and 1 block vs Illinois. Betrays a lack of hustle.

If we don't disrupt their offense, WSU can bomb away too.

Didn't Jerry Krause used to chart deflections, steals, etc... as an indicator of the effort of the team? Maybe need to resurrect that practice.

ZZ

We probably still chart that stuff. Been using the same pencil all season, haven't had to sharpen it yet.

bballbeachbum
12-06-2010, 03:32 PM
build on the bright spots, seek consistency on them and what's being/been built and keep growing with it (Meech, RS, Manny, Rebounding, the Paint, continued better Ball Movement, for example) while also adding to it. Communicate and work for each other hard defensively; show true progress in addressing last game's obvious defensive holes as a TEAM. Thompson remembers last year and what happened to him, so I'd bet he'd like a do over, and GU knows this too; win that battle again as TEAM, and keep boarding for 40 minutes!

something more specific would be better early offense maybe? many posts re. how the bigs have position early only to not have the ball delivered. would love to see that pass on time IF it's there, but that TO really sucks in my book if it's not, so the big really has to be BIG in wanting that ball early so the window to deliver is that much bigger and better, obvious--help the passer by giving obvious target-- then make sure strong on the catch and squeeze baby! and hopefully a pass that leads towards the hoop. add 3-4 (or more) of those a game w/out turning it over trying to do it, and scratch out another difference maker in the final score

GO ZAGS!!!

bballbeachbum
12-06-2010, 03:34 PM
Zags had ZERO steals and 1 block vs Illinois. Betrays a lack of hustle.

If we don't disrupt their offense, WSU can bomb away too.

Didn't Jerry Krause used to chart deflections, steals, etc... as an indicator of the effort of the team? Maybe need to resurrect that practice.

ZZ

deflections, charges, steals, blocks, altered shots, floor burns...some of my favorite stats

edit: and winning box outs!

GO ZAGS!!!

Baldwinzag
12-06-2010, 03:36 PM
Point to where I said WSU was able to stick with KSU inside? KSU dominate WSU inside but WSU still had a shot to win that game late.

No doubt about it.

I watched every minute of that game and WSU looked really good. Night & day better than last season.

It looks to be WSU's game to lose vs Zags this season, especially with Reggie Moore back in the lineup.

We have no answer for his heady play at PG. Also, it goes w/o saying that Klay Thompson is one of the most dynamic guards in the Country. He's ridiculously tough to contain in the half-court. Steven Gray will utilize nearly all his effort to defend him and hopefully have gas left in the tank on offense.

I think the x-factor is Adel(sp?). While he had a tough outing vs K-State, his skill & athleticism is palpable. He can be a big threat against us, especially since we'll be working so hard to defend Klay. I could see him having a big night vs our defense. I'm surprised he wasn't recruited by every school from here to UConn. He's going to be a gem of player for WSU.

Casto always plays tough and with a chip on his shoulder vs Zags. He's always impressed, yet has a hard time sustaining his effort for both halves. He always seem to have a good showing in the 1st half or 2nd half, but rarely both. I think he's stick with this habit and have a solid game.

WSU will be forced to double Sacre, yet so has every team we've faced thus far. Sacre is getting better at dealing with the pressure and hopefully Gray, Arop, Monninghoff are ready to hit their open shots this game. We missed them vs Illinois.

If Elias is healthy, he'll be the difference of the game. If he's able to loosen the achilles, I could see him scoring 15+ pts vs WSU. It still might not be enough to win, but if he's healthy he is one of the best players in NCAA. We'll see.

The feel the most important aspect of this game, but will be ignored, will be the battle of Meech vs Moore. These guys are both active defenders, love to run, and their teams suffer when they aren't on the floor vs good teams.

I suspect Capers will defend Gray most of the game, with Adel & Klay getting in on the action. I see Klay scoring his average, with Capers, Moore, and Adel providing clutch shots throughout.

I'll believe it when I see it, but I just don't believe the WSU bigs will dominate the scoreboard or backboard vs Zags' bigs.

These teams are pretty evenly matched from 2 through 5, with Moore getting the edge at point.

I think its one of those years the home-team gets the advantage.

WSU is shooting the ball really well this season and the Zags can't defend a good shooting team. So, its a toss-up.

I still think the Zags lose in a close one. WSU makes 10 three's, Zags make 3 threes and we'll all be singing the same tune. The game will be lost on the perimeter. Klay will knock down any open shot you give him, so will Moore & JUCO Adel. Its still the Zags achilles heal.

Our only shot is Rob scoring 18-20(which I believe he'll do vs WSU) and Elias doing the same. Meech needs to play smart and tough vs Moore. Gray will need to play the best defense of his career vs Klay and the Zags will need one of our X-factors i.e. Manny or Mathis to step up on the ROAD and score in double-digits. If this happens, we have a good chance of beating WSU.

One of the most exciting game of the season to tip-off on Weds night!

BobZag
12-06-2010, 04:40 PM
If WSU could stick around against KSU with their inside players I think they can as well against Harris, Sacre, and the rest of the Zag's.

Guess you already have your excuse built in. It feels more and more like I'm on Dawgman when I visit over here. :(

I'm trying to figure out the excuse you're referring to. Harris' achilles? This happened way before this upcoming game. Harris is to GU what Thompson is to WSU. Both are on the Wooden Award Watch. Both are the best players on their teams. If Klay was hobbled with an achilles issue, every Zag fan would acknowledge it and "if" Gonzaga were to win, we'd know it was in large part due to Klay being injured. It's logical.

Dawgman? Haven't been there in years. Does reese still post over there?

Reborn
12-06-2010, 05:06 PM
Baldwinzag gives us the reasons why WSU should win, and he's right on. I also watched the whole WSU game with KS, and Pullen was totally off, and it had nothing to do with the defense on him. He was just off. Period. He missed most of his open shots. But in the end he hit a big time shot and made a big time assist. KS big man, Kelly, totally dominated WSU's bigs. They had no answer for him. And KS does not have a power forward like Harris is. GU can stay in this game if our bigs have big games. WSU also played a lot of zone, so I am curious how we will do against it. I think GU can shoot better from the outside against a zone then against man to man. The Zags have trouble when defenders get up and into their grill.

We must get to the foul line. MUST. Attack the basket. Shoot good from the line. We will need this to make up for their better 3 pt shooters.

I don't know why I feel this way, but I feel as strongly that the Zags will beat WSU as Baldwinzag believes WSU will beat us. I do not believe WSU is as good as KS, Illinois, or SDSU. KS, remember, travelled across crountry. Zags travel only 100 miles. WSU vs GU is a classic rivalry that goes back a long, long ways. This is a war, and its the kind of game I believe is going to awaken the passion that is inside our Zags. We have played without passion so far this year, and I just have a hunch we will see it Wednesday night. After all, this is for Pride of being the best in Easten Washington, and will still give us a chance to prove we are the best college basketball team in Washington. I hope a lot of people drive down from Spokane for the game to support our Zags.

Harris will be better against WSU than he was against Illinois on Saturday. Actually, Harris played a great first half. GREAT. He just needs to get into better shape,and he will be in a little bit better shape Wednesday. Five days better. No, Harris will not be at full strength, but WSU is not going to present the defensive problems for Harris that Illinois did. Look how many of those 3's were scored against Harris, who will not be guarding good outside shooters on Wednesday night. Take away Tisdale's, and that guy who came in off the bench hitting those two 3's and you take away about 18 points or more.

This will be a GREAT game, and one that could turn things around for the Zags. I'm really excited to see it. The GU vs WSU game is always one of my favorites each year.

CaliforniaZaggin'
12-07-2010, 09:29 AM
1. Don't give the Cougs extra possessions, i.e., box out and take care of the ball.

2. Always, always hve a hand in Klay Thompson's face. Don't let him beat us.

3. Either Monninghoff or Arop steps up and gives us some perimeter scoring. If they can score 15+ points combined, then I like our chances.

MDABE80
12-07-2010, 10:35 AM
Defense

Their bigs can't guard our bigs. Get them the ball. Harris will play.

Coug Tracks
12-07-2010, 04:12 PM
I'm trying to figure out the excuse you're referring to. Harris' achilles? This happened way before this upcoming game. Harris is to GU what Thompson is to WSU. Both are on the Wooden Award Watch. Both are the best players on their teams. If Klay was hobbled with an achilles issue, every Zag fan would acknowledge it and "if" Gonzaga were to win, we'd know it was in large part due to Klay being injured. It's logical.

Dawgman? Haven't been there in years. Does reese still post over there?If you have read a post from a Dawg fan over the years and I know you have then you can connect the dots. The mutt's have always liked to proclaim their dominance and then sneak in a tailored made excuse if they lose. Honestly, it was just a little "ribbing" because one thing we can probably agree on is our mutual distaste for the mutt's.

Moore might actually end up WSUs best player but the honor still goes to Thompson at this point. I'm hoping as Moore gets back into the lineup and Aden adjusts to this level that Thompson will settle into a more comfortable role. At this point I am really not sure and the upfront guys are still a work-in-progress.

Interesting game Wednesday for 2 teams probably still trying to find who they are this year. I missed the Illinois game but saw a lot of SDSU and some of KSU. The pieces are definitely there but through the years as an outsider I have come to expect a true playmaker at the point. I haven't seen a lot but the guy that really seems to stand out in that respect is David Stockton. I know he probably won't get a lot of time this year and I am not saying he's a Santangelo or Stepp in terms of talent but I was pretty impressed with his court savvy. He was fun to watch as were Gray and Arop.

BobZag
12-07-2010, 05:01 PM
You'd be surprised how long it's been since I've been to another school's message board. But I do remember how Dawg fans are, yes; I know what you refer to.

Well, I for one, will offer no excuses if GU fails to pull it out. Injuries are a part of every sport. Gotta live with them. It's just a fact of life.

Now, if our bus slides into the ditch around Rosalia or Steptoe, I might mention it as a factor. :)

Bone found a jewel in Moore, no question.

Coug Tracks
12-08-2010, 10:57 AM
You'd be surprised how long it's been since I've been to another school's message board. But I do remember how Dawg fans are, yes; I know what you refer to.

Well, I for one, will offer no excuses if GU fails to pull it out. Injuries are a part of every sport. Gotta live with them. It's just a fact of life.

Now, if our bus slides into the ditch around Rosalia or Steptoe, I might mention it as a factor. :)

Bone found a jewel in Moore, no question.Moore is probably our most important player. We need him to produce and on the floor more than anyone else.

This site and the GU scout site (even though it's not very active) are really the only 2 non-Coug sites I visit. Much like a lot of Coug fans I like to see Gonzaga do well and I have a lot of respect for the program Fitz, Monson, and now Few put together. I don't want to get into the whole elite, mid-major deal (I'll leave that to you guys) but whatever the program status Gonzaga is a program you really want to resemble on and off the court.

Best of luck to your guys...after tonight!

azzagfan
12-08-2010, 12:53 PM
1. Positive turnover margin (reducing our turnovers, but also playing defense that will force turnovers as well, 3/4 court traps, 1/2 court traps, etc.)
2. Positive rebounding margin (if we don't have this, we don't deserve to win)
3. >18 points in transition (when your half court offense is struggling, this is a great way to break out of it...it's hard to clamp down on Steven if he's scoring on layups and dunks in the open floor).

U Zig, I Zag
12-08-2010, 01:07 PM
You'd be surprised how long it's been since I've been to another school's message board. But I do remember how Dawg fans are, yes; I know what you refer to.

Well, I for one, will offer no excuses if GU fails to pull it out. Injuries are a part of every sport. Gotta live with them. It's just a fact of life.

Now, if our bus slides into the ditch around Rosalia or Steptoe, I might mention it as a factor. :)

Bone found a jewel in Moore, no question.

Moor found a bone in Jewel.

Any other variations?

HOOTER
12-08-2010, 01:16 PM
I know a surefire way for the Zags to beat the Cougs tonight. If they do this and only this, the game is theirs.

Score more points!!!

I'm fairly certain that if the Zags can do this, they might just have a chance.

azzagfan
12-08-2010, 09:35 PM
1. Positive turnover margin (reducing our turnovers, but also playing defense that will force turnovers as well, 3/4 court traps, 1/2 court traps, etc.)
2. Positive rebounding margin (if we don't have this, we don't deserve to win)
3. >18 points in transition (when your half court offense is struggling, this is a great way to break out of it...it's hard to clamp down on Steven if he's scoring on layups and dunks in the open floor).

Well, we won the rebounding battle...unfortunately due to 1 and 3 we had 12 less shot attempts than Wazzu. 24 turnovers is awful and only forcing 9 turnovers is the equivalent of Washington State running their offense from the comfort of a living room recliner.

I believe it's time to make whole scale changes (minutes, schemes, etc.)