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View Full Version : Complain all you want, there is so much to be thankful for from this game



Colbyspapa
12-05-2010, 07:21 AM
I'm sorry, but so much posted on this site after KState and this game is absolulte garbage. We don't have to be 34-3! I have followed our team religiously since I entered GU as a freshman in 1992. This team is progressing.

1. Harris is starting to feel better and it is showing. His instincts are there and although not at 100%, he is there to battle and we need that toughness.

2. Big Rob played a great game. He was tough, he rebounded, he limitted poor decisions and was working against a tough frontline. Tinsdale and Davis are no joke and Rob was the best interior player on the court.

3. Illinois is very good team. Book it, they will finish in the top 3 in their league. They have great upperclass leadership and two of the quickest guards we will see all year.

4. Our guys fought the whole game. No one rolled over and played dead. We were just beat by a better team.

5. Kelly O played with a rebounding ferocity I have not seen out of him. The effort was there, the execution doesn't matter until March.

6. Meech played a good game. If not for foul issues, we are much closer in this game.

7. Steven is our star. Lay off. He can't score 25 a game every game. It is not how he plays. He was double teamed from the second he stepped off the bench by two of the quickest guards I have ever seen.

8. McCamey is an exceptional player. His game is very much like Jameer Nelson's in college. He is fast, smart, physically imposing and I for one believe playing against a guy like that will make Meech, Steven, David and Marquis all better players. No one in the WCC will play them as physical and McCamey.

Bottom line, we lost, but we did not stink up the joint. Zags, this is our team. Stop whining and know "The best is yet to come." We will peak in March and it will be masterful!

zag67
12-05-2010, 07:26 AM
Very well stated. This team is young and is learning. They are getting better and they are working hard. Harris is improving and our hope is that by mid month he will be 100%.

TacomaZAG
12-05-2010, 07:39 AM
with one slight, but very important, reminder. Your post, and many others just like it, are based on the false presumption that we have already either earned our way or have been invited to the Dance. Every foregone conclusion that we will "make noise come March", or "come together come March" is based on this false presumption.

If we don't get a couple of statement wins NOW, before conference play starts, we will have to win the WCC tourney to assure ourselves of a tournament berth. Running the table in the WCC but losing in the WCC Championship game doesn't necessarily get us in if we have no statement wins. IF we are going to leave it up to the committee, we need to give them a reason to select us, and so far we haven't done that.

I agree that it's all about March, but we have to get there. I know we've been there 12 years in a row, but that means nothing this year. If we don't get a lot better, fast, we may not make it to March. Not doom and gloom, just reality.

Go ZAGS

ZagHouse
12-05-2010, 07:49 AM
If Harris has only been able to practice one week compared to the ten like Few mentioned after the game, then it makes sense that the team is inconsistent on both ends of the floor. They need him on the floor--but in the second half it was clear he hadn't been practicing. I could jump on the doom and gloom bandwagon, but I actually think GU is going to take out some frustration on WSU. A lot of people were talking about how the Illinois game was pivotal, but I think losing that game (this may sound crazy) helps more than it hurts. There were so many glaring examples of poor play that I think it will provide some teachable moments for the coaching staff. We've lost three games--if we're sitting at 5 and 9, then I'll start to worry.

izzjess
12-05-2010, 07:59 AM
i was there and man what a great first half...im still horse...i agree that even though we lost i saw some glue in the team that i had not seen yet.. it gave me more hope for what this team can do.
Rob=awesome
elias= hes back baby..
grey=they were not giving him a inch
ko=..my jury is still out on this guy
meech=his best game-still needs to shoot more though
arop=also his best game this year
stockton=they scared that poor kid
carter=atleast he wasnt scared
morningoff=????\
sam=he was just ok. but he sank a deep shot-and so did ko

but in the end i think our zone confused us more than them, giving them way to many open looks from three.. and man they nailed everyone of them....We had better figure out this zone thing or just stay in man......but there was so much out there i was glad to see im am still a happy fan....

gamagin
12-05-2010, 08:03 AM
I'm sorry, but so much posted on this site after KState and this game is absolulte garbage. We don't have to be 34-3! I have followed our team religiously since I entered GU as a freshman in 1992. This team is progressing.

1. Harris is starting to feel better and it is showing. His instincts are there and although not at 100%, he is there to battle and we need that toughness.

2. Big Rob played a great game. He was tough, he rebounded, he limitted poor decisions and was working against a tough frontline. Tinsdale and Davis are no joke and Rob was the best interior player on the court.

3. Illinois is very good team. Book it, they will finish in the top 3 in their league. They have great upperclass leadership and two of the quickest guards we will see all year.

4. Our guys fought the whole game. No one rolled over and played dead. We were just beat by a better team.

5. Kelly O played with a rebounding ferocity I have not seen out of him. The effort was there, the execution doesn't matter until March.

6. Meech played a good game. If not for foul issues, we are much closer in this game.

7. Steven is our star. Lay off. He can't score 25 a game every game. It is not how he plays. He was double teamed from the second he stepped off the bench by two of the quickest guards I have ever seen.

8. McCamey is an exceptional player. His game is very much like Jameer Nelson's in college. He is fast, smart, physically imposing and I for one believe playing against a guy like that will make Meech, Steven, David and Marquis all better players. No one in the WCC will play them as physical and McCamey.

Bottom line, we lost, but we did not stink up the joint. Zags, this is our team. Stop whining and know "The best is yet to come." We will peak in March and it will be masterful!

good post. thanks.

GoZags
12-05-2010, 08:29 AM
with one slight, but very important, reminder. Your post, and many others just like it, are based on the false presumption that we have already either earned our way or have been invited to the Dance. Every foregone conclusion that we will "make noise come March", or "come together come March" is based on this false presumption.

If we don't get a couple of statement wins NOW, before conference play starts, we will have to win the WCC tourney to assure ourselves of a tournament berth. Running the table in the WCC but losing in the WCC Championship game doesn't necessarily get us in if we have no statement wins. IF we are going to leave it up to the committee, we need to give them a reason to select us, and so far we haven't done that.

I agree that it's all about March, but we have to get there. I know we've been there 12 years in a row, but that means nothing this year. If we don't get a lot better, fast, we may not make it to March. Not doom and gloom, just reality.

Go ZAGS

I agree. The Zags haven't earned a thing as of yet, and have lost 3 tough games to three tough opponents.

That being said -- I don't know if I'd discount the win against Marquette as of yet. They have two losses -- by 3 to GU and by 5 to Duke. You have to go back to '04/'05 to find the last season Marquette finished out of the Top 50 in RPI.

By my count, the Zags have at least 10 additional opportunities to earn "statement" wins. WSU, Notre Dame, Baylor, Xavier, Oklahoma State, Wake Forest, St. Mary's, Memphis, St. Mary's, St. Mary's. Who knows how Oklahoma State and Wake Forest will end up -- but the fact of the matter is they have the opportunity (due to their conference schedule) to rack up enough wins to get a decent RPI.

I'm looking forward to getting Elias in shape. I was delighted to see his progress yesterday -- and in my opinion there's no doubt about it -- a healthy, in shape Elias makes Gonzaga light years ahead of where we've seen the Zags to date.

dazags
12-05-2010, 08:48 AM
Great post Colby. You made me feel a lot better!

ZagLawGrad
12-05-2010, 09:51 AM
Stop whining and know "The best is yet to come." We will peak in March and it will be masterful!

This posts convinces me that fans are kinda like politicians. The Liberals (as reflected here----let's all sing cumbaya); the Moderates (as reflected by those who want to see wins but know it's not looking good from all objective signs), and the Conservatives (who have thrown in the towel).

While I actually thought the Zags came as close to "stinking up the joint" yesterday as I've seen in a long time, I'll take the moderate label and be happy if the Zags simply earn some respect by the end of the season. Not expecting a Sweet Sixteen.

vandalzag
12-05-2010, 10:11 AM
This posts convinces me that fans are kinda like politicians. The Liberals (as reflected here----let's all sing cumbaya); the Moderates (as reflected by those who want to see wins but know it's not looking good from all objective signs), and the Conservatives (who have thrown in the towel).

While I actually thought the Zags came as close to "stinking up the joint" yesterday as I've seen in a long time, I'll take the moderate label and be happy if the Zags simply earn some respect by the end of the season. Not expecting a Sweet Sixteen.

How was yesterday's game worse than the SDSU and KState games?

This team is a work in progress. Many things need to be worked out, especially on the offensive end. This is not your Zag teams of the last few years that peaked in December. Too many new parts to figure out. To compound things they are playing tough teams, no time to work on things.

Take lumps now, gain confidence in league, get hot at the end of the year...that is what makes for a run in March.

Reborn
12-05-2010, 10:13 AM
This is the funiest thread I have ever read. Thankful for a loss like the one yesterday? Wow!!!!

Sorry! I see absolutely nothing to be thankful for, and I don't see anything postive about a game like that. That is what is called UGLY.

I hate to disagree with so many of you, but there was no effort on defense in guarding the 3 pt shots. You wonder why teams shoot so well against Gonzaga? Two reasons. They have good shooters (which most teams should have in Div 1 Basketball). And 2. Gonzaga does not guard against 3 pt shooters. Their close-outs are horribly weak, and lack any intensity. Defense is all about toughness and intensity, and having a desire inside to STOP your opponent. Gonzaga lacks this.

08ZagAlum
12-05-2010, 11:01 AM
We have gotten spoiled with the luxury of punching our way into the tournament with our early season play in the last few years. It is not realistic for this to be an option every year. Some years the road to March Madness with have to go through the WCC championship game, and this is one of those years. We will still be a 20+ win club and be competitive in all of our games.

bigblahla
12-05-2010, 11:02 AM
We have good athletes on this Zag team but we do not play as a TEAM and I can't remember a single quote from coach Few that comes close to the high expectations that appear on this board.

Win the WCC regular season conference title for the 11th year in a row that's the goal. Everything happening now is aiming this team to become the TEAM, a cohesive unit playing together on offense and defense, to do exactly that.

My only frustration with coach and staff is sometimes, to me, it looks like we are playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

Attack,attack,attack, in your face full court pressure, use the bench, over use the bench get this TEAM ready for the WCC because contrary to a majority of opinions here SMC can challenge these Zags on their home floor and at K2. SCU, USF, and even LMU are going to be tough on their home floor. Our point guard issue is not going to disappear. Stockton offers the most between the ears but he's just too small and it was very evident against the Illini. Nothing against Meech or Carter but this is as weak as we have been at the PG positon in years and it's hurting.

C'mon Zaggies it's nice to dream but we don't need to despair we just need to come together as a TEAM and win the WCC. That is a reachable goal.

Just my opinion.

GO!! Zags!!!

bballbeachbum
12-05-2010, 11:10 AM
This is the funiest thread I have ever read. Thankful for a loss like the one yesterday? Wow!!!!

Sorry! I see absolutely nothing to be thankful for, and I don't see anything postive about a game like that. That is what is called UGLY.

I hate to disagree with so many of you, but there was no effort on defense in guarding the 3 pt shots. You wonder why teams shoot so well against Gonzaga? Two reasons. They have good shooters (which most teams should have in Div 1 Basketball). And 2. Gonzaga does not guard against 3 pt shooters. Their close-outs are horribly weak, and lack any intensity. Defense is all about toughness and intensity, and having a desire inside to STOP your opponent. Gonzaga lacks this.

hey Reborn, can't disagree on the 3 pt. D. Respecting the high importance of playing dominantly in this aspect of college basketball must be respected to the bone by every player. there was a quote from Izzo not long back where he said something to that effect re. his team and rebounding.

"Izzo also wasn't pleased with his team's attention to rebounding.

"I don't think this team respects that," Izzo said. "Hopefully we're going to be able to watch some film and show them what it's costing us, but that's why this is a good game Wednesday, because if we do learn to respect it, we'll play well. If we don't learn to respect it, we'll get embarrassed."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=303320127

the at-least-so-far sub par man-to-man D is the biggest surprise to me to date; m2m is still team D, and we appear to perhaps not communicate well enough out there? I don't know, I'm not courtside so I can't hear it. and other teams attack our perceived weak links with passionate intensity, I know that.

appreciated your post Colbyspapa, thank you

ZagLawGrad
12-05-2010, 11:54 AM
How was yesterday's game worse than the SDSU and KState games?

This team is a work in progress. Many things need to be worked out, especially on the offensive end. This is not your Zag teams of the last few years that peaked in December. Too many new parts to figure out. To compound things they are playing tough teams, no time to work on things.

Take lumps now, gain confidence in league, get hot at the end of the year...that is what makes for a run in March.

I thought the Illinois game was more of a dumpster fire because my impression was that KState and SDSU flat-out took the game from the Zags, while the Zags did many things to give the game to Illinois.

I agree with your assessment of the Zags at this juncture. I'm just not going to advocate unbridled optimism for what might happen in March at this time.

Ezag
12-05-2010, 07:54 PM
We're basically the same team as last year minus Bouldin and with a 75% Harris at this point, we can't even expect to be nearly as good as last year's team right now. We have no replacement for Bouldin because Arop and any of the new guys, have not even come close to filling that void especially in the big games.

siliconzag
12-07-2010, 10:52 AM
I am, like many of you, ambivalent about this line of reasoning. Much of what makes us Zag fans is shared history. Most of us remember the game at the same venue against the "invincible" Maddog led Stanford Cardinal. That would have made a believer out of all doubting Thomases. And there were other similar March victories, most of them nearly a decade ago, by now. Many of us long for the glory days. Some of you have the unbridled enthusiasm to suggest that this team or other recent teams are Final Four Caliber.

What impressed me most about the game, was the enthusiasm of the fans gathered. I didn't hear the kind of cynical grumbling so often found in other programs when the team played badly. Instead I saw a crowd wearing mostly blue and red, standing up and urging their team on, not just the KC, but the entire Key Arena. We were ecstatic when we closed the gap to 7 points. The energy was incredible.

With all due respect to the basketball team, it has always been the fellowship and camaraderie found in abundant quantities among the Gonzaga faithful which has created a special warmth in the heart and nourishment for the soul among us.

I decided a couple years ago, to try to resist allowing 20 year old young athletes determine whether I am happy or not during the winter months. I have no idea whether the poor start means a good finish, as some suggest, or whether it portends a mediocre year. Being a Zag is something that most of us have been for years, through good years and lean (and there were plenty of those incidentally). I keep watching the games, and following the team, despite any misgivings about this year's version. I hope that we play well, and at least don't embarrass ourselves. So far, even that has been a bit of a lofty expectation on my part. Yet, after the game is over, getting together with other Zag fans, sharing some laughs and some wine and good meals, goes a long way to soothe the soul.

If I wished for one thing for our players, it would be that they develop the kind of fellowship we've seen in our fans. That kind of fellowship was definitely present in the 1999 team. Hopefully coach can help foster that kind of mutual devotion and brotherhood in this team. If they keep losing, they may need it even more so.

Gonzaga is far more than a basketball team. And I don't know about the rest of you, but when I saw 14,000 fans in the Key Arena standing and cheering their outmatched team on, it put a lump in my throat.

Reborn
12-07-2010, 11:10 AM
I agree with Sili that the fans were great, as was team that made that comeback. It was if we were ready to do to them what they did to us at their place last year. I too was beginning to thing, "Maybe we can do it." I remember when we had gotten a 20 pt lead down to 10, and Illinois called a time out. We stopped them and were primed to take it down to 8 pts with 5 min left (which is certainly a doable thing). We missed 4 out of our next 5 shots. The run fizzeled out.

With 5 min to go we got the ball inside to Sacre, who was having a good 2nd half. He was on the left low post, and he dropped steped at took a good left handed hook. I questioned that kind of a shot, but oh well. I still don't understand why the Zags dont try to draw fouls more and get to the line. I would have liked to have seen a different shot by Robert. Had we gotten the lead down to 8 it gets much, much easier to make the comeback.

Nice reading your post Sili; I like your writing. I am kind of a different fan than you (but I still love the Zags as much I think, and do get upset at times when I feel we don't play with 100%. Its been a few days now, Im settled down and ready for WSU, and my woulds are healed. Im pretty fortunate because I don't stay wounded very long. It's not in my nature for some reason. I just don't stay down very long. I never have.

Great job fans. Good post Sili.

ronh_pm
12-07-2010, 02:04 PM
By my count, the Zags have at least 10 additional opportunities to earn "statement" wins. WSU, Notre Dame, Baylor, Xavier, Oklahoma State, Wake Forest, St. Mary's, Memphis, St. Mary's, St. Mary's. Who knows how Oklahoma State and Wake Forest will end up -- but the fact of the matter is they have the opportunity (due to their conference schedule) to rack up enough wins to get a decent RPI.



The Zags over the past 5 years, average just under 2 wins a season (9/20)over top 25 teams...seems there are a couple of opportunities.

SDSU would be akin to last years WF while Kansas State would be more akin to the Duke game. Throw in our Marquette win to be similar to Wisconsin and our Illinois loss similar to Mich State and things are about on par.

The only thing missing is a gut win like we had over Cincy...maybe that will be WSU this year and it is situation normal...

Beer_Engineer
12-08-2010, 09:17 AM
5. Kelly O played with a rebounding ferocity I have not seen out of him. The effort was there, the execution doesn't matter until March.


The execution does not matter until March. Did i just read that right?

primal23
12-08-2010, 11:20 AM
I was just thankful that it ended....:explode:

B Wayne
12-08-2010, 11:35 AM
We were ranked 12th in the nation at the beginning of the season. By the end of November we have lost in the Kennel, didn't even play competitively against #5 Kansas State, and were trounced by Illinois in a virtual home game in Seattle.As a result, we have dropped out of the top 25, and then some.

We have much to be thankful for, including the opportunity to watch the game on a beautiful December day in Seattle, but come on man, the Illinois loss isn't something to be thankful about.

I guess when in years past if GU beat a WCC opponent , say Portland, by 15, their fans could say "Complain all you want, there is much to be thankful about." LOL

vomit-smiley-007:http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/smilies/vomit-smiley-007.gif

Ezag
12-08-2010, 01:28 PM
We were ranked 12th in the nation at the beginning of the season. By the end of November we have lost in the Kennel, didn't even play competitively against #5 Kansas State, and were trounced by Illinois in a virtual home game in Seattle.As a result, we have dropped out of the top 25, and then some.

We have much to be thankful for, including the opportunity to watch the game on a beautiful December day in Seattle, but come on man, the Illinois loss isn't something to be thankful about.

I guess when in years past if GU beat a WCC opponent , say Portland, by 15, their fans could say "Complain all you want, there is much to be thankful about." LOL

vomit-smiley-007:http://www.guboards.spokesmanreview.com/images/smilies/vomit-smiley-007.gif

What he said...

titopoet
12-08-2010, 01:58 PM
Tonight, a group of us will be a Ronald McDonald House to serve dinner, so I will miss the start of the game tonight. I organized this monthly service as way of thank RMH for my family's stay at Seattle's RMD when my son went through brain surgery.

I love the joy and even the frustration that the Zags have provided. I still hope and think they could have a deep run march. There is a lot of Basketball to be played and learned in the meantime. I am thankful that GU plays at such a high level.