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View Full Version : Why all the fuss about "lack of offense"



Hoopaholic
11-17-2010, 11:36 PM
We scored 79 points against a top 25 team and all i read about is the need for change to "improve" our offense.......we are 15th in nation in scoring after 3 games, 17th in nation in shooting percentage afte 3 games and we have played a top 25 (probably top 15) program

We scored 79points with our all american making a single basket.....


there is an old saying in hoops.....sometimes there aint enough basketball to go around.........define the shooters and scorer's and everyone else support them.....


I will take a mid 70 scoring point average all year long and we will win alot of games......

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-18-2010, 05:13 AM
There was a glaring lack of offensive balance during the San Diego State game. The team shot poorly from the outside. There weren't a lot of points in the paint from the bigs. The bench produced almost nothing. During the closing minutes of the game, it looked like four guys in white shirts were standing around watching Steven Gray try to score.

If Steven Gray had an "average" night and scored only 18 points, this one would not have been close. He had as good of a night as any Zag since Adam Morrison, but we probably can't count on that as an offensive strategy night in and night out, particularly if we're also going to ask him to guard the other team's best wing or guard and bring the ball up the court from time to time in transition. He just won't have the legs to do that every night.

LongIslandZagFan
11-18-2010, 06:38 AM
There was a glaring lack of offensive balance during the San Diego State game. T


QFT.... QFT.

The OP is somewhat correct, as the boys scored 76... but the point is well taken. In fact I think had the really bad turnovers late in the game not happened we'd be talking a little more about what MCMM is talking about. Look Steven had a career night, mostly because he had to as nothing else was happening or they we just so out of sorts with each other. Fix the rebounding especially on the defensive end and this team is more than fine.

cjm720
11-18-2010, 07:19 AM
Offensive balance is needed.

Sacre scored 3 points in the last 18 minutes.

KO needs to be more agressive.

3-point shooting % was poor.

Our bench should continue to gain confidence (i.e., MM, Dower, hopefully Arop).

GrizZAG
11-18-2010, 08:00 AM
2nd viewing of game...perspective

C'mon, SD getting 3-5 putbacks on many occasions. Harris had weak game on REB & Scoring. If he is playing hurt, why play him?
Sacre...One block for the night and finished with only 2 PF? KO Blocks=0. What the? They had 39 rebounds to our 29. Ouch!

Lots of optimism on the guard situation.
Oh, yeah...this was a VERY athletic and quick team we played....we will see many more like them. Not to mention they were HUNGRY.

Does MM have handles? Point?? I like what I see but we didn't involve him enough maybe?

CDC84
11-18-2010, 08:01 AM
Two immediate concerns for me:

1) get Elias Harris back on track, somehow, someway

2) get Mathis Monninghoff more shots. He's the teams best perimeter scorer besides Gray

zag67
11-18-2010, 08:06 AM
I think that you also have to look at the amount of shots (23 out of 52) that Steven took. In most games he is not going to shoot that much. Therefore in this game, I would have expected him to score most of the points. Our "team" is still learning the offense and it only takes one player to be in the wrong place and the plays break down. SDSU took away many parts of our offense and made him take the game on his shoulders. And I think all of us would agree that he did a great job of it. There were times when he might have passed, but in most cases, if you rewatch the game, the SDSU defenders did not leave our shooters (like MM). Therefore they would force him to take it into their bigs and I do not think they thought he would be able to score.
Also I do not think that we were that far from winning that game. The SDSU big men (mainly White and their 300 lb center) played a great game under that boards. Also when you watch it, the other SDSU players knew where they were going to be, were not selfish, and gave the bigs the ball on the drives when our bigs came over to help. That was a team that has been together a long time. We have alot to learn about how to defend teams like that, but I think by March we will be there.

hockeyzag
11-18-2010, 08:32 AM
Biggest concern from this Zag fan: Point guard passing skills. Meech had a few nice assists, but I felt like our offense wasn't flowing the other night. Our bigs weren't getting passes into the interior to set up for a score.

San Diego State's guards were really setting up their bigs nicely. I really feel like, along with rebounding, it was the biggest different in why their offense was able to pick us apart.

We need to set up Sacre, Olynyk, Harris, and Dower better. We can't count on Steven Gray to have that kind of performance every game.

HOOTER
11-18-2010, 08:57 AM
I wish they had scored 79. I set my DVR to record an extra hour in case the game went into overtime.

Ezag
11-18-2010, 08:59 AM
....Except 1 guy score half of those points

jim77
11-18-2010, 10:59 AM
There was way to much standing in 1 spot going on. We need better movement by all the guys not named Steven. I think Elias needs some help getting freed...its ok the screen for a guy who doesn't have the ball...yet. Elias doesn't need much room to operate but, he does need room. I think the coach needs to bring in the subs quicker to keep the energy levels high ...and movement high too. I have confidence in our non-starters...Arop...Monnighoff.(who has a sweet 3 stroke)...Dower....and we will need it against KSU. Go back and watch the first few games....our movement was much better...and scoring much more balanced. We have to get others involved because 1 demensional teams are much easier to defend. If we make it past KSU and face Duke...we will get blown out with our 1 man offense...help Steven out. In fact we can use Steven's high scoring game as a weapon to get other guys scoring...as other teams are gonna key on Steven now.

MDABE80
11-18-2010, 11:25 AM
SDSU= 24 points of of putbacks. GU 10- pts off putbacks.

Rebounding and conditioning. Looked like our kids could hardly jump the last 5 minutes.

Eli has to be fixed. He's been distance the first three games. SOmehow he needs to become the Elias of old.

KO's not a big and even though he's working his butt off trying to be one, he isn't one. I love KO's effort. Every ball..he up there trying. Gret kid. I think he's got the "white man's disease though". Still young.

ROb's not athletic and, like KO..he's working as hard as he can.

As I've said before all a college team needs inan athletic big moror 6 ft 8 in guy..maybe 2..to win a championship. We don't have any of those this year. But SDSU had two. relectless kids.

We'll do better but that type of team will give us trouble. Few ,etc needs to design a better defense...not sure anything will work well. Nobody boxed out....that can be corrected.

SOmebody else has to score plenty..or 2 somebody's to get the pressure off Steven who is now a marked man...and will be one for the rest of the season. I mean seriously...when he puts up 35 pt with guys hangin all over him, well...he's special.

1. Get the rebounding under control.
2. Protect Steven by getting other shooters going
3. Get Elias back in position. Right now..he won't be in the NBA at all the way he's playing.
4. Design a rebounding scheme...boxing out is critical.

Unless these things are worked out, there might be 16 (with luck) in our future but not an E8....I see trouble in winning the WCC even.

Good team that could be a lot better. Daniels needs to get to work.

Reborn
11-18-2010, 11:55 AM
I agree. I thouhgt the 76 pts or whatever were nice for the 3rd game of the year and against a very good team. The thing that worries me the most is that we lost. AT HOME. And I must ask myself why??????????? Why did SDSU want this game more than the Zags? For me, thats a huge concern. Do I think we should have won that game? Yes! Emphatically. Unless sometthing is physically wrong with Elias, we should have won by 10. And maybe there is, and maybe this rest/layoff will do him some good.

ronh_pm
11-18-2010, 12:49 PM
The lack of distribution is a concern to me like others on the last game but I am more concerned about lack of defence than I am offence.

Giving up more than 70, two of the last three games does not bode well for a team that is supposed to be strong in their front court.

NEC26
11-18-2010, 03:56 PM
The lack of distribution is a concern to me like others on the last game but I am more concerned about lack of defence than I am offence.

Giving up more than 70, two of the last three games does not bode well for a team that is supposed to be strong in their front court.

Defense was pretty good really. We got a lot of stops just didn't rebound the misses. They weren't blowing by us(except when rebounding) and they weren't hitting a ton of threes. I thought they did a good job on defense.

FuManShoes
11-18-2010, 05:09 PM
I agree. I thouhgt the 76 pts or whatever were nice for the 3rd game of the year and against a very good team. The thing that worries me the most is that we lost. AT HOME. And I must ask myself why??????????? Why did SDSU want this game more than the Zags? For me, thats a huge concern. Do I think we should have won that game? Yes! Emphatically. Unless sometthing is physically wrong with Elias, we should have won by 10. And maybe there is, and maybe this rest/layoff will do him some good.

If I recall, SDSU has never been ranked before. They had all the motivation in the world to prove they belonged. And not only did they play hard, but they executed in ways our guys didn't. They made baseline plays. They made big shots. As to the question of Zag offense, this game seems hard to crack. The Zags can't win with Steven being the only playmaker, so is this game an anomaly or a sign of fundamental problems with the offense? We'll find out.

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-19-2010, 05:00 AM
Defense was pretty good really. We got a lot of stops just didn't rebound the misses. They weren't blowing by us(except when rebounding) and they weren't hitting a ton of threes. I thought they did a good job on defense.

Bad defensive rebounding is bad defense. It does no good to keep the ball in front of the defenders or to close passing lanes or to force bad shots if the other team just keeps grabbing the offensive rebound and putting the ball back in the hoop.

NEC26
11-19-2010, 05:26 AM
Bad defensive rebounding is bad defense. It does no good to keep the ball in front of the defenders or to close passing lanes or to force bad shots if the other team just keeps grabbing the offensive rebound and putting the ball back in the hoop.

OK, I guess. I always just thought bad rebounding was bad rebounding. I realize you have to finish off the play but my point is this team is capable and in fact playing pretty good defense(at least the starters anyway). They aren't getting beat by penetration a lot and they aren't getting burned by threes either.
Thats an encouraging sign to me. Now they just need to get better in one area and they will be a real competitive team(Top ten team).

Martin Centre Mad Man
11-19-2010, 08:04 AM
OK, I guess. I always just thought bad rebounding was bad rebounding. I realize you have to finish off the play but my point is this team is capable and in fact playing pretty good defense(at least the starters anyway). They aren't getting beat by penetration a lot and they aren't getting burned by threes either.
Thats an encouraging sign to me. Now they just need to get better in one area and they will be a real competitive team(Top ten team).

I would agree that there were a lot of positive signs from the defense. The boys did a good job of keeping the ball in front of them. They challenged the passing lanes. The denied entry passes reasonably well. They did not allow a lot of open looks from mid-long range. SDSU kept burning up tons of shot clock looking for a good shot. Those are good signs. Unfortunately, the defensive play is not over until you finish it by gaining possession of the ball. The Zags tended to defend really well until the ball was in the air for a shot, but failed to finish the defensive play by getting good position for the rebounds and securing the ball.

This can be fixed. I suspect that they will drill this a lot before KSU. If they can sustain the positives from their defense against SDSU and just finish the plays, they will be a very good defensive team.