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View Full Version : So, about Manny.



U Zig, I Zag
11-15-2010, 09:04 AM
Anyone have any ideas? He seems a little off, not too engaged in the game when he is in. He missed some shots, really, really missed a few which is fine since we know he can make them eventually. Is it a confidence thing? A injury or illness that held him back for a bit?

We all love his energy and looking back that's really what he brought last year: energy off the bench. His points came either off 3-pointers or put backs for the most part. He has a nose for the ball but I think that's been shown by Sam and maybe that's why Sam is getting more minutes (dif position, I know). Was it the flow of last year's games that gave Manny the opportunities where he shined?

He seemed hesitant when he had the ball on offense in these 3 games. He is a slasher at times, but without the ball - he is not likely going to break a guy down then pull up for a J or drive around him. His is a game of opportunity.

I am not saying he is even playing bad, just not the same and certainly not what I expected (wouldn't have surprised me if we started the year with DG, SG, MA, EH and RS - that seems less and less likely now).

So this isn't a negative take on Manny (there seems to be a bunch of negativity lately), just want to get some dialogue going.

Anyone with insights? Personally, I believe he doesn't practice well (it's been stated before) and lost minutes there come game-time. When he did get in he was timid. I was hoping that with these lesser opponents Few would have let him play through some mistakes but it seems that players are getting yanked after the real boneheaded mistakes.

john montana
11-15-2010, 09:11 AM
To me, this is the #1 question thus far this season. From massive offseason discussions about who should start, KO or Manny to what we've seen thus far where Manny is pretty clearly the odd man out...very strange shift. He's being outplayed, which is shocking to me.

CDC84
11-15-2010, 09:17 AM
Manny needs to pick it up because with the way Monninghoff is playing right now, Arop could find himself further and further down the bench.

Once and Future Zag
11-15-2010, 09:23 AM
I wouldn't chalk it up to anything but still recovering (physically and mentally) from last year's injury.

gamagin
11-15-2010, 09:29 AM
Tuesday, or whenever things breakdown or get chaotic. That is when he will be called upon. I hope he is ready.

IF, indeed, he can answer the clarion call like last year.

But as noted, the field is much more crowded & he's not famous for earning p.t. in the drudgery of practice.

But even then, I think he has special talents we are surely going to need somewhere along the way. He's a bit of a free safety and it's comforting to know he's there.

cjm720
11-15-2010, 09:29 AM
Manny needs to pick it up because with the way Monninghoff is playing right now, Arop could find himself further and further down the bench.

This is what I've been thinking...

I do think he will be needed mightily against more athletic teams.

His ceiling is still high, but how quickly things can change. Mark Few is using his riches, that is for sure.

Go Zags!!!

AzZag
11-15-2010, 09:35 AM
I think you are looking into it too much.
Only two games into the season.

Lots of depth right now, and it will bring out the best in everyone.

Go Zags!

cggonzaga
11-15-2010, 09:45 AM
While I have no insider information about this whatsoever it seems to me to be another example of a player getting in Few's doghouse. CDC has discussed on several occasions how maddening Arop has been to Few. Personally I hope Arop gets things figured out because he can be an outstanding player.

Drew
11-15-2010, 09:51 AM
Manny = secret weapon against KS.

jimmy b
11-15-2010, 09:58 AM
He's too good at rebounding and other aspects to not play.

He's also a different player than 'Hoff.

As long as everyone accepts their roles, this will be a great season IMO.

As the coach said, there isn't a big difference between 3-12, and I think it will vary based on situation. I personally would like to see a much bigger rotation than what we are used to as I think that can add unpredictability which is a competitive advantage. And I think it has been shown that everyone, walkons included, is capable of playing.

zag67
11-15-2010, 10:16 AM
I also think that the coaches wanted to see more of Hoff and therefore allowed him to play more. Hoff needs the experience with this team and offense that Manny already has. This will make the team better down the line. I think like many of the players on this team, each of them will be used at different times (depending on the mismatch it will create). The coaches know what Manny brings to the table and also know that they need another 3 point shooter. I think at this time it is Hoff.

RockandRollJames
11-15-2010, 10:29 AM
He is not the best practice player, and that is putting it nicely.

I am a huge fan of his game. He's my favorite player. He just needs to figure it out, open his eyes, and put it together.

MDABE80
11-15-2010, 10:48 AM
MM has just some on too strong. Manny's been quiet...fthe reasons are unclear. MM rolls out and throws down 4 threes...hard to ignore that performance. Manny sits so it's hard to know if he's healthy or what.

Manny needs to get busy or he'll be forgotten. I love his game and he's a good kid but obviously MM has Few's eye right now...ours too.

Manny was a wee bit passive last year even though he has good skills. I , for one, hate to think of him being left behind. If he's healthy, he'll have to make the decision to be more aggressive. I hope he des and that he's fabulously successful...I thought he'd make the yr 1 to yr 2 jump. Not so far...but it's early (Very early). MM is not the rebounder Manny is and not the defender..at least so far. Maybe he doesn't have to be with the re-emergence of interest in rebounding from the bigs.

Time...fellas...time...

Reborn
11-15-2010, 10:48 AM
I say let's wait and see about Manny until after tomorrow nite. Manny uses plays his best basketball against the better teams. He kind of does what he needs to do to help the team. I bet he's in more tomorrow.

I do wonder if he is one of those guys whom weightlifting changed his shooting touch? Just saying....There is always room for a tough guy who is team oriented.

whatazag
11-15-2010, 11:10 AM
Don't know. If I had to guess I would say that it probably comes down to him not getting to play as much over the past 6 months due to his injury, so he has to catch up with all the other guys. Not worried at all, we've got some good depth and he is still just a sophomore.

TheBunnieRancher
11-15-2010, 11:54 AM
Manny actually played better against the starters at midnight madness when it was Manny & Dower against the world. I think he elevates his game to match the competition better than anyone else on the team. These first two games he has come in late against inferior competition and gotten off to slow starts. The next three games should tell us a lot about Manny and his motivation.

SLOZag
11-15-2010, 12:19 PM
Anyone with insights? Personally, I believe he doesn't practice well (it's been stated before).

I read this thread hoping to get some insights from folks with actual knowledge of this situation (although colorful speculation is always interesting). Yet I didn't.

Here's what I've learned from the above posts: (1) Manny is not the best practice player. (2) Manny elevates his game to match the competition better than anyone else on the team. Aren't these two observations inconsistent? If our roster is as full of talent as everyone thinks it is, and if all that talent is so helpful for our other players to work against every day in practice (How often have we all read that Kelly and Sam have benefitted a ton from facing off with Rob each day of practice?), then why isn't Manny's game equally elevated by such practices? Can anyone offer a clearer insight as to what's going on with one of my favorite players?

Zagnificent
11-15-2010, 12:29 PM
I think this early season is the time to develop the play of Carter, who will likely see time leading this team at the point. Arop is familiar with the system and plays hard when he's on the court. Giving him time against the likes of Southern and IUPUI won't do him many favors late into the season, whereas playing Carter will allow him time to adapt to the pace of the game and learn to work the offense. When SDSU rolls around, I expect to see Arop get more time (Hart's time).

webspinnre
11-15-2010, 12:55 PM
I agree with the sentiment that he's still working his confidence back up coming back from injury. I also agree that against these opponents the coaches were looking to check out some of the other stuff they had in their arsenal. Before making any true blanket statements about Manny, Elias, Steven, I'd like to give it a couple more games, this time against the better competition. We'll see how it goes.

U Zig, I Zag
11-15-2010, 01:16 PM
He does well when he matches up atheletically with guys, SDSU is that matchup. Hopefully he shines on Tuesday, he is due. Almost everyone (thought of as major players this year) has had their coming out party. It's only been 2(3) games, so it's def Manny's turn.

skan72
11-15-2010, 01:16 PM
He missed about 2 months of ball, right? I think he'll be fine. He may look off but he's still playing about 10-13 mpg averaging 5.5 ppg and 4.5 rpg. That's the standard efficient Manny if you look at it that way.

He'll be fiiiine. He's extremely talented and he works too hard not to be fine.

seasontixholder
11-15-2010, 02:12 PM
MM is not the rebounder Manny is and not the defender...

Manny is the better rebounder, but MM is the more dedicated defender. In fact, not even close. Watch him away from the ball for a stretch. Against IUPUI, MM again stayed in front of his man and was part of the best help effort that I've ever seen out of a GU defense. He got early second-half minutes -not because of his coolish shooting - but because he help shut IUPUI's offense down.

Manny is still a young player who hasn't fully absorbed the system, both on offense and defense. (In the first half against Southern, there was another instance on the left side of the half court offense where SGray had to shoo him to his spot.) I'm not complaining, it's just the way some early-season sophomores are.

Great Zag. Greater guy. Just needs more time, not much different from the November sophomore Meech.

Robzagnut
11-15-2010, 02:18 PM
I agree with the sentiment that he's still working his confidence back up coming back from injury. I also agree that against these opponents the coaches were looking to check out some of the other stuff they had in their arsenal.

I agree too. Last year Manny started as the 9th or 10th guy off the bench and worked his way up to being the 6th man. He's off to a slow start due to his injury, but I see him working his way back into the rotation.

It would be a great thing if he was actually the 8th or 9th man off the bench, because that means Dower, Carter and Moonshot have developed quicker than expected giving GU a deep, deep bench.

Ezag
11-15-2010, 02:24 PM
If the other newbies live up to billing, me thinks there may not be many meaningful minutes left for Manny

Robzagnut
11-15-2010, 02:30 PM
If the other newbies live up to billing, me thinks there may not be many meaningful minutes left for Manny

There's always room for a lunch pail guy who plays great defense and has an uncanny knack of pulling down 6-7 rebounds a game.

skan72
11-15-2010, 02:37 PM
If the other newbies live up to billing, me thinks there may not be many meaningful minutes left for Manny

I don't think he will and I hope he doesn't get lost in the shuffle. I can't see it happening. He works his tail off and has all that talent that's been talked about by scouting pundits, which he displayed for the Canadian juniors before his freshman season.

bballbeachbum
11-15-2010, 03:25 PM
Manny is the better rebounder, but MM is the more dedicated defender. In fact, not even close. Watch him away from the ball for a stretch. Against IUPUI, MM again stayed in front of his man and was part of the best help effort that I've ever seen out of a GU defense. He got early second-half minutes -not because of his coolish shooting - but because he help shut IUPUI's offense down.

Manny is still a young player who hasn't fully absorbed the system, both on offense and defense. (In the first half against Southern, there was another instance on the left side of the half court offense where SGray had to shoo him to his spot.) I'm not complaining, it's just the way some early-season sophomores are.

Great Zag. Greater guy. Just needs more time, not much different from the November sophomore Meech.

I see this too. he appeared to miss another D-rotation when the seas parted down the lane and a Southern player got to the rim uncontested out of a half-court offense--not good. Few appeared to let him know about it, too, saw that much on TV.

I've been on Manny's bandwagon from jump, and am still on it, but he can't miss an assignment on defense because there are others who won't and so will get the minutes...that's what I think. It's one thing to get beat, another to miss assignments. If he's not missing assignments, then he'll get the minutes. Practice is where you get your assignments down, so.......I don't know for a fact any of this, sorry, no insider here, just observations U Zig :) maybe his injury recovery put him behind a little? wouldn't be the strangest thing if true.

on MM, another reason he got the start in the 2nd half I thought was Coach Few showing confidence in the kid even tho he'd missed 4 straight 3s (all good looks, btw)...and he repaid his coach's faith with performance. That's how you earn more minutes

zaguarxj
11-16-2010, 08:36 AM
I watched the 1st half of the IUPUI game again last night and was keeping my eye on Manny when he was in. In all fairness, the entire time Manny was playing, KO was absolutely on fire. There were no rebounds or shots to be had. I was too sleepy to watch the 2nd half again.