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RebornZag
05-25-2007, 04:03 PM
I think it's very early to really say, but I also think it's fun to project. I think a major problem we had next year was that we really didn't have a go to guy. It seemed like in close games, at the end, we just didn't know who to get the ball to. I think it's a huge need for next year.

I'm going to go with Micah Downs because I see him as a terrific one on one player. I know we HAVEN'T seen the best of Micah at all, and probably not even close to it. If not him I'd say Pargo driving and shooting or driving and dishing to outside shooters.

I had to consider Josh, but he really hasn't shown he's a one on one player. To do that he'll have to learn how to post up low I think. He has six months to work on it.

What are your thoughts?

soonerterp
05-25-2007, 04:29 PM
Not JUST Micah Downs, but I think Dave Pendergraft could be that guy as well. He was always a good player but he was REALLY feeling it late in the season ... maybe that could carry over into the next. Not to mention he's going to be one of the senior leaders next year so "go to guy" might not just apply to on the court.

Nevtelen
05-25-2007, 05:06 PM
I see it as Pargo. Not that Micah or Pendo (or Josh or Daye or Gray or Bouldin or...) might not be taking that last shot, but they'd do it because they got a pass from Pargo because the ball should be in his hands as the clock in winding down. He had some rough patches in that role this past season, but Few kept going to him. I don't know why that trend wouldn't continue and I know Pargo will get better at end-of-game situations.

MickMick
05-25-2007, 06:22 PM
If I had to choose right now it would be Pendergraft for the open perimeter shot. It would be Pargo for the penetrate and/or fast break scenario.

But I think our most reliable scorer next season may very well be Josh. I just get this feeling that he is on the verge of exploding into the national consciousness similar to how Durant did. Just a hunch. (Then again, there are some people that feel that way about Micah although I don't think his upside is nearly as high.) Is the sky really the limit here?

On an additional note, If Bouldin gets any better at passing (of course he will...scary better), I know Josh will be a force. Bouldin can do for Josh what Stockton did for Malone (at a college level of course).

It really does look like a combo guard situation to me. I can see Pargo pushing the ball up quickly and feeding it down low to Josh. I can also see a half court offense featuring a Bouldin ally-oop lob to Josh as well.

saintzag
05-25-2007, 06:29 PM
Pendo he is the man.

spudzag
05-25-2007, 07:06 PM
Considering a blending of size, speed and shooting ability leads me to Micah.

RebornZag
05-25-2007, 07:40 PM
This is the season for talking about the recruits in '08, and next years Freshman. But when you stop and think about it, guys like Downs, Theo Davis, LG, are really unknowns too. We've seen quite a bit of Micah, but I think we saw him in a very different role this year then we'll see next year. It really hurt him to get a late start due to elligibility, and then the injury. He'll be so much more integrated into the team than last year. And Davis didn't play a minute.

I was pretty shocked, and pleasantly surprised with the shooting range of Downs. I remember when I first saw him, and he would get the ball way past the 3 pt line and hoist one up, and "swish!!!" It was soooo kool.

I think our 3 pt shooting was down last year, for a Zag team. Pargo was slow to develop an outside shot, and Bouldin was fairly inconsistent. Both of them are going to be a year older, and much more confident. We will have Josh back, Pendo, Downs who can all shoot the 3. And with our incoming Freshmen I think we will gladly return to the great 3 pt shooting team that the Zags have been known for.

To make that possible we will NEED a much improved inside game, and I am truly hoping our guys are working on that. I have a very good feeling about Sacre. I was looking at the top 100 '07 guys rated on Scout. Sacre is 255 and 7'0" He's the 2nd biggest guy in the top 100. I had no idea he weighed that much because when you see his picture he looks so trim....He must be all mustle...I hope so. So we'll have Josh at 6'11" and around 140 (maybe more) and Sacre....I've also read some nice things here about Davis as a fairly good mid-range player....We will need all we can find inside...The outside so often does not go if there's no inside game....

Bocco
05-25-2007, 09:23 PM
I think it's very early to really say, but I also think it's fun to project.

I agree with the very early to say portion of your statement Reborn. With four new players coming on board, plus two players who were injured and didn't play last year there are a lot of unknowns.

I think this years team will more resemble last years team than those of a few years ago when everyone knew that Ammo, Blake, Dan, etc would be taking the last shot. One reason is we have more overall talent and thus do not need to relay on just one player. My suspicion is that we will go to the player(s) with the hot hand and the best defensive match-up.

Hopefully for most games we'll be far enough ahead that we won't need a go to guy.

jpwils
05-26-2007, 09:22 AM
Pargo seems right given a certain type of defense.

Downs or Pendo seem right based on wing talent and ability to score
with the pick and pop.

Heytvelt seems right in certain matchup situations as well.

Depends on other team's inclination on who to double team and
where the matchups favor our squad.

Davis and Daye enter the equation as do Bouldin and possibly Sacre.

Don't forget foul trouble, injuries, number of points needed at crunch time,etc.

We have a boatload of options which should be a very positive thing!

Zag79
05-27-2007, 10:21 PM
pargo, josh, pendo and micah. they will all hit game winners and clutch shtos this coming season. its nice that its too hard to pick just one! :D

Bocco
05-28-2007, 09:23 AM
I've been pondering this since Reborn first broached the topic, and I keep wondering of players on the team next year is there one who has the confidence and will want the ball more than any other player. There were numerous times last year when it seemed that no one wanted to take a shot, passing up open looks and making that one additional pass. Often it seemed that we would make one pass too many and turn the ball over.

I can remember one occasion in particular against Memphis when we had brought the ball down and passed up open looks, making a pass and turned the ball over without a shot. In frustration I found myself yelling out "shoot the damn ball" or something to that effect. I doubt if Pendo heard me but he did shoot just at that moment, and drain a three.

I would rather see someone take an open shot and miss than not even get a shot off.

MickMick
05-28-2007, 10:24 AM
I've been pondering this since Reborn first broached the topic, and I keep wondering of players on the team next year is there one who has the confidence and will want the ball more than any other player. There were numerous times last year when it seemed that no one wanted to take a shot, passing up open looks and making that one additional pass. Often it seemed that we would make one pass too many and turn the ball over.

I can remember one occasion in particular against Memphis when we had brought the ball down and passed up open looks, making a pass and turned the ball over without a shot. In frustration I found myself yelling out "shoot the damn ball" or something to that effect. I doubt if Pendo heard me but he did shoot just at that moment, and drain a three.

I would rather see someone take an open shot and miss than not even get a shot off.

That Memphis game was very winnable. The guys did make a courageous effort to come from behind on 2-3 occasions.....but they just couldn't get over the hump. And your comments give me deja vu. It is why I believe that Pendo must take a much bigger role on the team. It was probably the moment you described when I started to believe that Pendo is more than a role player. He is a vital part of the team and must get (and take) his shots.

roxdoc
05-28-2007, 12:27 PM
Last year our go to guy was clearly DR. Our opposition knew that too and many times double teamed accordingly. Often over the season in written and oral interviews our coaches talked about "passing up a good shot for a better shot". My thought is that there was definite pressure from the coaches to keep passing and get it to DR at all costs. There is a fine, split second line (particularly in the heat of battle) when one must decide to go against coaches orders. Remember what happened to Pmac when he disobeyed orders! Tough to get the right balance. With this year's team multiple "go to guys" could ease the strain.

MickMick
05-28-2007, 12:53 PM
Last year our go to guy was clearly DR. Our opposition knew that too and many times double teamed accordingly. Often over the season in written and oral interviews our coaches talked about "passing up a good shot for a better shot". My thought is that there was definite pressure from the coaches to keep passing and get it to DR at all costs. There is a fine, split second line (particularly in the heat of battle) when one must decide to go against coaches orders. Remember what happened to Pmac when he disobeyed orders! Tough to get the right balance. With this year's team multiple "go to guys" could ease the strain.

Perhaps the team (and staff) was still suffering a hangover from the Morrison era. Ravio isn't a bad guy to hang your hat on though, so I think the basic philosophy wasn't bad. His free throw shooting was a difference maker...and the only way to get him to the line was to take the shot. He just didn't have that "knack" to draw fouls like Morrison did. Further, when you are behind, you need to score with the clock stopped. Hence, increased emphasis to get Ravio to the foul stripe in those more memorable games.

For me the bottom line was the lack of inside presence. So much more would have opened up. Pargo would have had more room to drive the lane. Ravio would have had a split second more from the perimeter. The second chance shots would have been there. Everyone would have been better.

In other words, it wasn't so much a fault in the philosophy/game plan, but more a big void under the rim. I thought Few (and Ravio) did a wonderful job considering the circumstances.

roxdoc
05-28-2007, 03:37 PM
Good points MM. As great a shooter as he was, DR also didn't have the ability to create his own shot the way Ammo did. When he was covered by a good defense it was all over. As you point out an inside strength would have helped out.

BobZag
05-28-2007, 04:17 PM
If Pargo improves one-fourth as much as he did from frosh to soph, my vote goes to Pargo.

MickMick
05-28-2007, 04:54 PM
If Pargo improves one-fourth as much as he did from frosh to soph, my vote goes to Pargo.

If Pargo improves as much as he did from frosh to soph, I will take back every negative comment I have ever said about him and declare him a lottery pick to boot. I absolutely thought he was a bust going into his sophmore campaign.

The improvement last season was remarkable and I now feel he is very solid. I still don't look at him as an All American, a NBA player, or even the best player on the team.....yet. But I do finally see the potential that others on this board do.

CDC84
05-28-2007, 05:02 PM
I am with BZ on Pargo. Your go to guy needs to have a certain attitude...a willingness to go for the kill. But he also needs to have either the skills or athleticism to get his shot off under a variety of circumstances.

That all being said, the biggest area for improvement that Jeremy needs to address this offseason has to do with his handling of the game clock in situations where GU has the last shot at the end of a half. The Stanford game was just one of several instances where he waited far too long to initiate the action. There is a fear that if you shoot too soon or pass to someone too soon that the other team will get a chance to get a shot off. For me, it's more important to get the best shot that you can. If it goes in early, the other team isn't going to have gobs of time on its hands. You just have to get back on D and play smart.

If Jeremy can learn to better handle these situations, he is the go to guy for me in crunch time. However, I do feel that we are not going to be seeing 18+ PPG scorers on next year's team. I expect the scoring to be spread around as much as it ever has been. But when the clock is ticking down, every team needs a guy that you give the ball to.

gamagin
05-28-2007, 05:38 PM
the first man who gets a good look. Starting with Pargo. I think our talent is that good, too.

nine out of ten times, there will be an open man because they will be expecting pargo and double him in anticipation, imo.

rangerpit
05-29-2007, 09:01 AM
If Micah gains weight, keeps from mental meddling, and takes off where he left off last year, he could be 'the man.'

He should get a lot of the credit for saving last year's season. When the team lost Josh - and the accompanying disappointment - I figured they were toast. And they nearly were. Downs, in my opinion, gave those down-trodden roundballers instant pep. He made incredible moves, shots and passes. And he just infused the whole game with an energy that allowed a big time, late season rally to win the league - again.

Now in that last handful of games, many played well. But Downs played best. There's a good chance, if Few is smart, that he could explode this year.

Nevtelen
05-29-2007, 09:20 AM
Most of the issues Micah had last season could be attributed to shaking the rust off and starting late in the season and having to integrate with the team (and playing out of position later in the season, though he did that pretty well). He could really show us all something this year, I think.

roxdoc
05-29-2007, 09:33 AM
I agree-Micah is going to improve even further. He seems to be everywhere on the court, has a great shot and also had some great defensive moments last year. All that in a "year of adversity", but with that under his belt I think we will see further improvement. Also, Micah will keep Daye on his toes and I expect there will really be some competition for PT at the 3 (let alone from several other significant folks that want to play 3 too). We are going to be very strong at the wing.

UberZagFan
05-29-2007, 10:15 AM
CDC beat me to the punch, but it should be Pargo assuming he can rid himself of the urge to start the final play at the 5 second mark. What's wrong with say giving yourself 8, 9 seconds?? Maybe even 10? Imagine that.

Zag79
05-30-2007, 01:05 AM
He could really show us all something this year, I think.
you think? you saw what md did last year after a layoff and trying to fit into a squad. he lit the wcc tourney up. with way more minutes, and another off season under his belt dont be surprised if he leads the team in scoring.

LongIslandZagFan
05-30-2007, 07:03 AM
you think? you saw what md did last year after a layoff and trying to fit into a squad. he lit the wcc tourney up. with way more minutes, and another off season under his belt dont be surprised if he leads the team in scoring.

I think Micah may just explode next year, but with the clock ticking... gotta go with Pargo... with Micah hiding on the wings for Jeremy to dish off too when he drives the lane.

Zag79
05-31-2007, 12:16 AM
i agree lizf. i just am overly excited to see what MD can do this year... :D

gamagin
05-31-2007, 10:42 AM
re go to guy.

I like pendo. His smarts. his leadership. his maturity. his judgement. his seniority. you name it.

he would also be the first to take or make a move and, if not open, dish it.

I don't think Pargo is as good at making snap decisions. He may have grown those whiskers between now and next season, but I'd have to see it first.

What changed my mind and what made the bulb go off in this virtual debate was simple: angelo posted that one bkb player is on the dean's list: Pendo.

that tells me that one guy, among a great deal of very talented athletes, also has it ALL together on the floor, too: Pendo.

skan72
05-31-2007, 06:06 PM
I think it's very early to really say, but I also think it's fun to project. I think a major problem we had next year was that we really didn't have a go to guy. It seemed like in close games, at the end, we just didn't know who to get the ball to. I think it's a huge need for next year.

I'm going to go with Micah Downs because I see him as a terrific one on one player. I know we HAVEN'T seen the best of Micah at all, and probably not even close to it. If not him I'd say Pargo driving and shooting or driving and dishing to outside shooters.

I had to consider Josh, but he really hasn't shown he's a one on one player. To do that he'll have to learn how to post up low I think. He has six months to work on it.

What are your thoughts?

I agree with you one hundred ( and 10??) percent. Micah Downs will be an absolute stud next season. He is much too talented to do otherwise.

RebornZag
05-31-2007, 06:24 PM
Gamagin; I like what you say about Pendo. He's a great guy, and a good basketball player at the D1 level. His leadership will be instrumental this year in leading us to at least the Sweet 16. If this team reflects David, as I am hoping, he certainly will have his stamp on it because he's a Senior, then we'll see a team that's much better than last year because of his leadership. I think to most of us here who post, we all feel David examplies everything there is about being a Zag. I think that because of him we'll see a team that really does look like the Zags of old....

BUT....I truly don't see his role on the team as the go-to guy. He is a great 3 pt shooter, and a great garbage guy, but I don't think he has the one on one game that a go-to guy needs to have. Good stuff on David though.

What have you seen about Pendo that leads you to believe he's a go-2 guy?

NJZag
05-31-2007, 07:04 PM
re go to guy.

I like pendo. His smarts. his leadership. his maturity. his judgement. his seniority. you name it.

He came up big in some crunch times this past season, and it wouldn't surprise if he got a go-to nod. (Wishful thinking? Maybe.)

Bocco
05-31-2007, 09:38 PM
I still think we are better off with multiple go to guys. I can't help but remember when Santangelo, Frahm, Calvary were playing. If you had to bet Matt most likely would be taking the last shot but not necessarily...it depended on who was hot that night.

tyra
05-31-2007, 10:25 PM
I think it is too early to tell who the go-to guy will be. We need to see more of this team and how it develops. In the meantime, I go with "It'll be situational", dependent on the match-ups and who has the hot hand. If we're down by one, likely Jeremy. I am surprised so few people mentioned Josh in this thread. He (as well as Micah and Pendo and Matt) are all capable of inserting the last dagger.

gamagin
06-01-2007, 09:41 AM
I agree with those who say it all depends on the situation. I first posted that the talent is so good, I'd be willing to have the open man shoot. I still feel that way.

then I settled on Pendo, because what appears to be what actually happens on the court is a set play is put in place. And that is where we have come in to try and micromanage that set play. what we think we'd like to see or what "should" happen.

I'm sure there's more than one set play, but what we saw last year, in my memory, were several efforts to get the ball to DR, but DR was covered too closely & couldn't get a shot off. We couldn't seem to build enough pickets in our fence to free him up.

In fact, much of the better defenses just put someone on DR and they followed him everyhere except the bench and the bathroom. Reminded me of the old Jazz playoff games -- two guys on John and two on karl -- effectively shutting down the Jazz and sending them home.

Our plan B, after DR was neutralized, seemed to turn to pargo, who tried valiantly many times to crash the boards and either get a slam or draw a foul. the problem is he too often ran into the whole other team in the process. Or pulled up and shot. Or continued on and made a few, but just as often, ran into a wall and was blocked.

In both cases, imo, his lack of maturity mixed with a tremendous heart and a willing spirit, caused him to make less than stellar, sophmore, decisions -- the last shot vs. memphis being one e.g. (he had more time but seemed caught up in the moment. even at that he came close.)

His clock management generally haS not yet become second nature in other cases, too; and his belief he can score against anyone -- a good trait -- can work against him because it is predictable if you are the other team.

So who out there could handle all those nuances AND make a shot if/when it's needed ? In an instant.

Or more to the point, who would you prefer take that shot ?

Or perhaps who would you say you would like to make that decision to pass, shoot or crash the boards and best manage the time involved and the chaos all around him?

That's when I believe it will be or become Pendo. He won't crash the boards, but he will make someone else -- perhaps pargo -- open by being a very savvy triple threat who very seldom makes mistakes and remains cool under any circumstances he has encountered so far.

And as a fan I'm very comfortable if its him making all those choices with a gun at his head.

rangerpit
06-01-2007, 11:21 AM
Here's my response to a couple of previous posters;

1) Josh isn't mentioned much 'cause he's still in the "dog house" - no pun intended - and he will have to show that he deserves positive strokes. But, pushed by Micah, will probably lead in scoring next year. He will play very hard trying to show that he deserves........and could end up conference MVP.

2) Pendo's invaluable contribution will be leadership. He's got institutional credibility. He's settled, solid and steady. He'll be the guy - like the Seattle Seahawk fullback returning this fall, Matt Strong, for his 14th!!! year - who, during time-outs, team mates look to for words of encouragement and levity - "Now look guys, remember that play just before half-time against ******* last year in the play-offs? How we all concentrated and did exactly what we were supposed to do. And how it worked so well..........let's execute like that here." This takes 10 seconds to share during those little group hugs on the floor. Invaluable from the mucho respected team captain. He will be team Captain - won't he?

This team has so much unknown quality that the five who start this year could be battling for playing time at season's end. It's gonna be great fun.

And, finally, speaking of the Seahawks - because we'll be spending the next few years in Spokane, I'm willing to talk about swapping some of my season tickets for Zag seats. To remind - the Hawks are one of the teams picked to win it all!!