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View Full Version : Pargo, Bouldin, and Gray



jpwils
05-21-2007, 10:56 AM
Pargo is perhaps the best penetrator-type guard this upcoming year in the WCC.

How will teams defend us ?

Bouldin and to a lesser extent at beginning of year, Gray will be counted on to make smart decisions and provide scoring .

Pendo really seemed to come on toward end of year with outside shot as well.

Your thoughts on our guard and wing play?

Downs will be huge for us at one wing.

sanfranzagsguy20
05-21-2007, 02:08 PM
here's a thought:

we're loaded

no need to thank me for my incredible insights

to me its hard to analyze a team in may...and there can be nothing but optimism at this point for most teams...what i thought about last year's team in may 06 was not what i thought about them in february 07

this year's team has tons of talent on paper but its impossible to figure out a team's identity until a couple monthes into the season imo

4EVERaZAG
05-21-2007, 05:11 PM
Pargo is perhaps the best penetrator-type guard this upcoming year in the WCC.


Not only to mention Pargo is the best penetrating guard in the WCC. I don't know about you but I wouldn't replace anybody on our team with any player from the WCC. I think top to bottom we have the most skilled players at each position. The Dominance has no end in sight.

thespywhozaggedme
05-21-2007, 05:23 PM
I couldn't disagree more with sanfran. I believe that we're extremely thin at the guard spots. We're loaded at the 3, it seems 10 out of the 13 players on the roster are a sf. lol

I stated in a previous post that we're one bad injury to one of our 2 pg's from disaster. That comment was met with either derision or glibness, oh well. I'm not expecting much from Gray but I guess Micah could slide over to the two on occassion and even play point foward creating all kinds of mismatches.

I do agree, we are loaded, just not at the guard spot. If the players stay healthy and crime free I expect at least a ff. Seriously

thespywhozaggedme
05-21-2007, 05:26 PM
Okay, I just read the op and realized you said guards and wing players. Maybe I should read more closely. DOH

Anyway, guards and wings? Yes, we are loaded, emphasis on wings obviously. This will be the best GU team ever.

sanfranzagsguy20
05-21-2007, 05:29 PM
I couldn't disagree more with sanfran. I believe that we're extremely thin at the guard spots. We're loaded at the 3, it seems 10 out of the 13 players on the roster are a sf. lol

I stated in a previous post that we're one bad injury to one of our 2 pg's from disaster. That comment was met with either derision or glibness, oh well. I'm not expecting much from Gray but I guess Micah could slide over to the two on occassion and even play point foward creating all kinds of mismatches.

I do agree, we are loaded, just not at the guard spot. If the players stay healthy and crime free I expect at least a ff. Seriously

wow

Zagster
05-21-2007, 05:36 PM
I could not agree more with the thespywhozaggedme. In college ball, you need strong pressure on the ball. Pmac would have been a nice to have next year. Even if it was only for a short time. His offense was so so but his defense was also very good. It keeps the game up tempo and creates a very nice transition game. This could be a weakness next year as the season goes on. If Steven Gray steps up like Matt did last year and we stay healthy we will be fine. But in 2008, we need a strong point guard.

MickMick
05-21-2007, 07:38 PM
I read the comment best team ever. I will believe it when I see it. For this to be true, I believe the following areas must improve.

1) Someone will have to play with rock solid consistency under the rim like Batista did...or at least with the presence of a Turiaf. I am not talking about flashes of brilliance. I am talking about owning the space below the rim.

2) Bouldin will need to dictate more of the offense with his great passing skill.

3) With all the shooters on board, Pendergraft must get his shots too. The senior must get the green light. Upper classmen leadership is one of the most underrated assets in college hoops in my opinion.

4) Pargo needs to up his shooting percentage at or around the rim. Too many balls that rim out for my taste. It is...after all...suppose to be a high percentage shot. He is definately very good at getting to the rim though. His 10' pull up jumper is more than serviceable and will keep defenses honest.
I always get dispute with this one, but try watching a recorded game and keep a running total of the dribble drives that score. A heck of a lot of them roll around the rim and fall out. Many are not noticed because of the immediate gratification of watching him go to the foul line. He just needs to fine tune his control at the very end of the drive a little (so don't get bent out of shape).

5) Injuries at guard will kill this team. Can't have them.

6) Gray must be on top of the learning curve before March...especially with respect to the most common freshman nemisis...turnovers. Of all the incoming freshman, our most immediate need is with the guard position.

7) The strength of the team (the wings) must be exactly that. And I am talking from a scoring standpoint.

All of that falls into place and I say a Final Four is very, very possible. If not, another year that isn't much different than before.

RebornZag
05-21-2007, 07:54 PM
jpwils: Pargo was 1st team all WCC this year and is hoping to gain more recognition nationally. There are lot of different opinions about Pargo here on our Board. I happen to be one who loves his game. He is my favorite Zag. With the return of Josh and the addition of Theo Davis inside you will see the best of Pargo next year. We must remember how good he was until Josh was suspended last year. Josh and Jeremy go together like cookies and milk. Cookies are just better with milk. :D When Josh went out we had no bigs who could score consistently, so therefore opposing bigs just plugged the middle against Jeremy. This loss in a way strengthened Jeremy's game because he had to begin to shoot outside, and I think he improved that shot a lot, and will continue to do so.

Matt Bouldin will be steadier this year, and not so up and down. I think we'll see that consistency in his 3 pt shot and passing. This year both were up and down. We all know that GU guards improve considerably between their 1st and 2nd year. My hope is that Matt improves his defense as well. He was a big liability in that area. Matt will play both the Wing and point. As we know Mark Few likes Combo Guards and we'll see a lot of interchanging between Matt and Jeremy. Matt also showed he's a stong rebounder.

We have Micah Downs playing the whole year. I look forward to seeing him again. He was slowly coming into his own and showed some pretty great play after Josh went out. He will be very solid at the Wing. I felt Micah was an exceptional passer and displayed great team work. I think he will do whatever Few wants him to do. I really liked his attitude as he slowly fit into the team. He was a solid rebounder and showed very good shot blocking skills. He is the 1st McDonalds All American to play for Gonzaga. The nice thing about Micah is that, like Adam, he can put the ball on the floor and penetrate and shoot the mid-range pull up jumper or go further inside with a finger-roll to the hoop (similar to a rider but even more old school). He has similiar offensive to moves to a guy called the Ice Man, who is old school and probably too old for most posters. His name was George Irving and played for San Antonio I believe. Micah played a lot of 4 last year, and we may see him there some more.

Daye, an incoming Freshman, will be pushing both Matt and Micah and will help them improve. I think many felt Daye could have been a Mc Donald's All American. Daye is 6'10" and very tough on Defense. He can play Wing or the #4, and be a similar #4 too Josh with a very good outside shot. Daye, is a much better ball handler then Josh however, and has many very good moves off the dribble. A great rebounder and shot blocker, similar to Josh and Micah.

Ira Brown LG and Gray round out the guys competing at the 2 and 3 (wing) positions. These guys can all play and will be very competitive.

I disagree with those who think that we could be weak at the guard position. Gonzaga, as most know, prefers to use combo guards rather than having a true point guard. The combo guards will be Pargo, Bouldin, Gray and Daye. I've discussed my belief that Daye could be a great guard. He loves to play outside, and set up outside. This is quite unusual for a guy his size. We know Josh likes to do that, but the difference between Josh and Daye is that Daye plays like a guard. He can dribble, dribble penetrate, dribble and pull up and shoot the mid range jumper. He will bring a lot of excitement to all Zag fans soon. He is surprising very quick for someone his size, and is quick with the ball as well. He is not selfish, and likes to pass but he has a lot of improvement in this area. Matt found out last year the difference between high school and college...it's all about speed and quickness. Lanes close so much faster in college.

I've also read a lot about Ira Brown and I guess he has a great game as well. I guess he brings the house down with his dunks. We will have quite an assortment of dunkers this year. We have Josh and that Tomahawk dunk, and many others. We have Pargo whom we've seen some unbelievable things from in the open court. And now Brown. I'm anxious to see him play.

brasszag
05-21-2007, 08:02 PM
*snif*

No mention of Big Red :(

Great post though - basketball talk about next year has died down now I'm all antzy for Nov.

RebornZag
05-21-2007, 08:41 PM
Yeah, I jumped at this thread, brasszag because all Ive heard on this board is TALK ABOUT everything BUT our basketball team, and the discussion about recruits has gotten a little whackey. It felt good...to focus on the guys again. I only left big RED out of the discussion because the thread was on our 1,2 and 3 positions. I suppose in a way we could include Pendo in discussion about wings, but mostly he plays the #4.

I'll predict one thing about Pendo. He'll have a great year. It's his last year and it's going to be a memorable one I think...I know he'll do everything to make it happen that way. Pendo represents everything we've come to know and love about The Zags....

SLOZag
05-21-2007, 09:18 PM
Reborn writes:
"We have Micah Downs ... He has similiar offensive to moves to a guy called the Ice Man, who is old school and probably too old for most posters. His name was George Irving and played for San Antonio I believe. Micah played a lot of 4 last year, and we may see him there some more."

Actually, I think Reborn is trying to compare Micah to George Gervin, rather than "George Irving." However Gervin, a mainstay in the NBA Hall of Fame, was a shooting guard, and IMO his style of play (as well as position on the court) in most respects wasn't similar to Micah's game. If you are curious, you can read some cool stuff about Gervin here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Gervin.

UberZagFan
05-22-2007, 12:15 PM
I couldn't disagree more with sanfran. I believe that we're extremely thin at the guard spots. We're loaded at the 3, it seems 10 out of the 13 players on the roster are a sf. lol

I stated in a previous post that we're one bad injury to one of our 2 pg's from disaster. That comment was met with either derision or glibness, oh well. I'm not expecting much from Gray but I guess Micah could slide over to the two on occassion and even play point foward creating all kinds of mismatches.

I do agree, we are loaded, just not at the guard spot. If the players stay healthy and crime free I expect at least a ff. Seriously


wow


I could not agree more with the thespywhozaggedme. In college ball, you need strong pressure on the ball. Pmac would have been a nice to have next year. Even if it was only for a short time. His offense was so so but his defense was also very good. It keeps the game up tempo and creates a very nice transition game. This could be a weakness next year as the season goes on. If Steven Gray steps up like Matt did last year and we stay healthy we will be fine. But in 2008, we need a strong point guard.


I couldn't agree more with the agreement of the disagreement.

Ikancagin
05-22-2007, 04:12 PM
I think the glass is half full, but it is only May.

Bocco
05-22-2007, 08:33 PM
I've discussed my belief that Daye could be a great guard.

Reborn
At 6'10" I think Daye might be just a little tall for a guard, but he will cause some real matchup problems for most teams at the 3.

Later in the season it would not surprise me to see Sacre (7'0") Heytvelt (6'11"), Daye (6'10") Downs (6'8") and Pargo (6'2") all on the court at the same time.

sonuvazag
05-23-2007, 08:29 AM
I stated in a previous post that we're one bad injury to one of our 2 pg's from disaster. Yes, and not to deride or to be glib, but do you know of many teams that have two or more super-talented and more-than-capable point guards? Seriously. There may be only 5 D-1 schools in the nation who have a better stack at the 1-slot and that's if you're not a Zag fan.

On a twelve-man roster, to have more than one capable player at a pure position like one or five is a blessing. How many Batista's or Dickau's are there in the world? Not many.

The 2, 3, and 4 are mostly interchangable positions for wing types and that's why you see 10 out of 13 players on the roster fitting those spots. Micah and Pendo, for example, can easily play 2, 3, or 4.

Now, an injury to Pargo or Bouldin would be bad so I'm not trying to be Mr. Sunshine here. It's just a fact that we're not weak at the point guard position. If you disagree, name me some D-1 teams that are better off.

a13coach
05-23-2007, 09:19 AM
Reborn
At 6'10" I think Daye might be just a little tall for a guard, but he will cause some real matchup problems for most teams at the 3.

Later in the season it would not surprise me to see Sacre (7'0") Heytvelt (6'11"), Daye (6'10") Downs (6'8") and Pargo (6'2") all on the court at the same time.

Hey I would love to see that line-up but with Bouldin (6'5") at the point. Heck NBA teams don't often put line ups with that overall height on the floor.

sonuvazag
05-23-2007, 09:26 AM
Hey I would love to see that line-up but with Bouldin (6'5") at the point. Heck NBA teams don't often put line ups with that overall height on the floor.And that's not even a gimmick line-up. All five guys are legit to be out there and at those positions. I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.I can't wait.

RebornZag
05-23-2007, 04:41 PM
Bocco states, "Reborn: At 6'10 I think Daye might be just a little tall for a guard, but he will cause some real matchup problems for most teams at the 3."

I remember an unbelievable point guard who played for Michigan State when they played Indiana State with Larry Bird for the National Championship. I never, ever thought anyone 6' 9" could play point guard....But then again, he also played Center at times when he played for LA Lakers. And he also played power forward. I think Daye has this kind of diversity in his game. I don't really see him playing point guard steady. I'm just trying to address some of the concerns of a few posters about GU only having 2 guards. I just think Daye could put in time there.

Why do I say that? Because first of all he loves to play the point. He loves to get the ball at the top and begin making his moves from there. He has a multitude of moves from that spot. In videos, and a game, I've seen him bring the ball up. He can dribble believe me. I believe he likes to play the game in many ways the way Durant does. I am not saying he has the accuracy of Durant, but I think he has the confidence. I do. And I think he will really challenge Downs and Bouldin for minutes...and for that matter Pargo as well because Bouldin can certainly play the point.

Bocco
05-23-2007, 06:58 PM
Only time will tell if Daye has the same skills as Magic. It would be wonderful if he did. We will see if the same skills he showed against high school competition will be seen at the next level.

Bocco
05-23-2007, 07:00 PM
Hey I would love to see that line-up but with Bouldin (6'5") at the point. Heck NBA teams don't often put line ups with that overall height on the floor.

I wouldn't mind seeing what happens with a skyscraper line up with Bouldin at point, and while we're at it lets throw Foster in the middle!

Nevtelen
05-23-2007, 07:44 PM
I haven't seen Daye play in person at all besides that one intenet game tape that was posted a few days ago, but just going by his stats, I'd be a little worried about him seeing a lot of time at a guard spot because of how many turn-overs he had. In the college game, as Bouldin expressed last season, things move a lot faster. Having to adjust to that _and_ cut down on to's might limit Daye's ball-handling, at least his freshman year.

Zag79
05-24-2007, 12:00 AM
daye at pg? :lmao: