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View Full Version : So who's our backup sg?



thespywhozaggedme
09-15-2010, 07:29 PM
With the good news about Marquis and Sammy D, the pg and pf spots seem deep and strong, but who is our backup at the two; that's really my only concern as I think we will be very, very good this year.

dim4sum
09-15-2010, 07:55 PM
I think with Gray out, Manny subs, but redefines the definition of shooting guard by boarding more and getting more shots that are opportunistic, such as putbacks (because of his great strength on the boards). With minutes, he's good for double-doubles. And may provide more energy than Gray.

Baldwinzag
09-15-2010, 08:03 PM
Good question and something I've been wanting comment on...

The guard situation is not black or white this season.

It isn't just Meech vs Marquise at PG, but rather Meech AND Marquise. I firmly believe we'll see more of this combo in the backcourt than people realize given the battle we've created. While one of these two players will certainly "start" the game, they are both going to receive a lot of playing time. Meech and Marquise will be interchangeable at PG, along with Gray when he's in the game. Gray will need several breathers throughout, especially since he defends the opponents best player every game.

Also, I think we'll see some Manny Arop at SG in certain games vs zone-type teams for 3pt shooting ability, but the Coaches have expressed they want Manny rebounding, slashing, and stretching defenses, not sitting back accepting outlet passes, running the half-court sets, and spotting up for shots at the top of the key.

Lastly, if Keegan shakes off his live-action rust and catches up to D1 speed, he'll see minutes at the 2 as well. He's too good of a shooter not to play in our system. He could play a key role as a reserve this season as well. He's been more than impressive in shooting drills & one on one's, but tough to create as a true Frosh vs Manny, Meech, Marquise, and Gray defending him in pick-up games/practices. He'll come around as well.

cggonzaga
09-15-2010, 08:54 PM
I'll go with Carter, Monninghoff and Keitas.

WeSayZed
09-15-2010, 08:56 PM
With the good news about Marquis and Sammy D, the pg and pf spots seem deep and strong, but who is our backup at the two; that's really my only concern as I think we will be very, very good this year.
I think Sammy D will be almost exclusively a backup 5, because we don't have anyone else there and I think Kelly and Elias will play almost all of the minutes at the 4. And I think Manny will split time between the 3 and the 2. We need to find ways to get Manny on the court, and I think playing the 2 will be good for him because that will likely be his pro position. I know BZ doesn't think this will happen, but I still think we may see Gray play some at PG this year. If he does we could put an NBA sized lineup on the floor of Gray, Arop, Harris, Olynyk, and Sacre. :eek:

CDC84
09-15-2010, 09:01 PM
I don't know if it will ultimately matter much. I wouldn't be surprised if Few plays Gray plays 35 minutes per game this season. He's going to be called upon to do a hell of a lot, but in some ways he'll have it easier than Bouldin did because he'll play off the ball more. Especially when Carter is in the game. Few is always very demanding of his seniors. There are a number of options he can choose from when Steve needs a quick breather.

Nevtelen
09-15-2010, 09:08 PM
I'd say Arop and then Hyland, but Gray will probably play 30+ mins per game so Manny will have to get most of his time at the 3, I think.

roxdoc
09-15-2010, 09:42 PM
There seemed to be a feeling last spring that Bouldin and Gray had played too long on average, and that it showed by the end of the season. Hopefully with the potentially significant backups we have, Gray can have a little more time off - say average about 30 min - and be stronger at the end of the year.

soccerdud
09-15-2010, 09:49 PM
i see it being arop first, foremost, and almost exclusively. i can see hyland maybe getting some burn as a shooter in some situations.

i don't foresee carter and meech on the court at the same time UNLESS carter struggles at pg. the reason for this is very simple: if carter can run the offense, i would prefer any of the following on the floor over the meech we saw last year: gray, arop, elias, kelly, sacre, sam. if you have both carter AND meech on the court at the same time, at least half of that list has to be sitting on the bench. it is simply a minutes thing and we have too many awesome 2-5s to force two points onto the court at the same time.

i DEFINITELY can't see any meech + carter if CDC is right about gray's minutes.

Baldwinzag
09-16-2010, 02:20 AM
I'll go with Carter, Monninghoff and Keitas.

Personally, I don't feel the latter two will see much playing time this season, unless its spot duty.

I could see Mathis & Mathis logging a few minutes at the Wing or possibly SG for defensive purposes, but that will be it, imo.

They need grooming to our style of play and playing within a complex offensive system and acclimate off the court as well.

Having said that, I've heard both our foreign recruits have been solid in individual drills & work outs, but I firmly believe their floor game will need polishing, especially if they want to log minutes in the backcourt.

The good news is both Mathis' are just as athletic as advertised and feature skills our coaches can easily develop with time. I do think Monninghoff will spell some minutes at the 3, due to his 6'7" stature and above average perimeter shooting.

As I've said before, Elias has officially spoiled our expectations of first year players and/or foreign recruits. As Tommy mentioned several times last season, if Elias would have played in the States, he would have easily been considered an McDonalds AA and Five Star recruit.


What Lloyd saw in that small gym in Speyer made the trip worthwhile. "If this kid had been in the U.S.," Lloyd says he was thinking while watching Harris play against a club of seasoned professionals, "he would have been a McDonald's All-American." -- Sports Illustrated (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1166491/index.htm)

Elias saw immediate PT b/c he could rely on pure talent, instincts, and innate ability in the post, such as rebounding, shot-blocking, scoring, etc. Also, Elias was dominant--over 20ppg & 9rpg--in a similar Euro-league either Mathis couldn't crack double digit points in.

Harris was a bonafide NBA prospect and being scouted by Draftexpress and numerous scouts before he ever stepped foot on GU's campus. Elias was already being talked as a future NBA draftee and his 1st year at Gonzaga only reaffirmed his potential.

At this juncture, the NBA would most likely say, "Who & Who?" if you ever asked them about their expert opinion on Keita and/or Monninghoff. That is not a slight on their ability whatsoever, because I am excited about their potential as Zags. I just don't expect much from either this season, but I do expect big things down the road.

titopoet
09-16-2010, 05:36 AM
Personally, I don't feel the latter two will see much playing time this season, unless its spot duty.

Harris was a bonafide NBA prospect and being scouted by Draftexpress and numerous scouts before he ever stepped foot on GU's campus. Elias was already being talked as a future NBA draftee and his 1st year at Gonzaga only reaffirmed his potential.


Harris went from being a marginal late second rounder in Drafts (to not being drafted) to a potential lotto pick by playing and being exposed to NBA scouts playing for GU. His stock shot up not because his skills improved, but he was seen day in day out. International prospects from across the pond will be ranked lower than their contemporaries here in the states. Look at poor Robin Benzing, who the Germans think the equal of Harris (Better shooter, though lacking the athletic ability) He is listed as the last pick in Draft Express mock 2011. Monninghoff, if you take the underestimating of internationals, would be a four star recruit. Same for Kieta, so, while I am not saying these two will suddenly be starting, don't underestimate them either.
To Quote a certain board member with rave black hair (yes that is you Bob)


Monninghoff and Keita are doing very well, and one coach has high praise for both. This coach rarely has high praise for any player, so they must be really impressing him.

Reborn
09-16-2010, 08:39 AM
From the latest reports on Keita, I think he will get playing time at the 2. I liked Keita from the very beginning because the information on him was that he was a tough defender, and I believe that Gonzaga is going for that this year. We saw what tough defense did for Butler last year. I think the main problem with Gibbs was his poor defense. Keita fills that need. I am hoping Few returns to developing an aggresive full court press. I miss that, as I don't believe our press has been aggresive at all in the past few years. Could a pressing team be Gray, Keita, Arop, Monninghoff and Harris/Olynyk? We will need quickness and great defenders in order to do this. I haven't heard much on Monninghoff's D. Does anyone know what kind of a defender he is?

I agree that Gray will be playing between 33 and 35 min a game. I also agree he can play some at the point because he did play some there last year. Arop will be able to play the 2 if he's needed there. I think the 2 is his natural position.

I think we need to take a look at who the top 9 guys are because I think that Few will only play 9 guys and at the very most 10.

Here is my top ten: Harris, Gray, Sacre, Olynyk, Arop, Meech, Carter, Dower, Keita, Monninghoff.

cjm720
09-16-2010, 08:44 AM
Carter and Arop seem like the natural choice assuming Keegan will redshirt.

BobZag
09-16-2010, 10:03 AM
Whatever happens and whoever becomes Gray's backup, it is imperative for Mangisto to see as much PT as possible. He gets the team second and third chances, and his offense is good. Zags were a better team last season when Arop was on the court, imo.

I think we'll see more Monninghoff than many folks expect.

I lightened my rave hair. Looks downright :cool: cool.

titopoet
09-16-2010, 10:25 AM
Whatever happens and whoever becomes Gray's backup, it is imperative for Mangisto to see as much PT as possible. He gets the team second and third chances, and his offense is good. Zags were a better team last season when Arop was on the court, imo.

I think we'll see more Monninghoff than many folks expect.

I lightened my rave hair. Looks downright :cool: cool.

What I like about next year's team in the flexibility to play different line ups to give the opposing team headaches. Few can play small ball as well as great wall ball depending on matchups. He can put in speed to pressure the ball. He can put in muscle to rebound. How he learns to use his talent will go along way to how good these guys get.

Also, BZ, careful about the hair as the Bald man sings,
Hair today, Gone tomorrow.

Colbyspapa
09-16-2010, 11:53 AM
Gray will play 36 minutes a game. Just like Pargo, Dickau, Ravio and the other work horse players. Last year he average close to 30 with Bouldin on the floor. This year, he is the glue.

Jyz
09-16-2010, 02:30 PM
The potential is there, so why not establish a healthy rotation on the SG spot?
Would save Gray a lot of strength in the long run. And if the Zags deliver, the run will be long.

spudzag
09-16-2010, 03:28 PM
Gray played too many minutes last year and it really hurt his game. 30 minutes max, he will be much better fresh.

cscz28
09-16-2010, 04:27 PM
I think Steven will be asked to expend a lot more of his energy on the defensive side of the ball than Matt was last year. I don't expect his minutes to go over 30-32 a game because of that reason.

zagzilla
09-16-2010, 04:30 PM
Who says Gray played too many minutes and broke down late last year? Somebody just pulled that out of their hat and now others are repeating it like it's true.

THE FACTS:

During the second half of the season Steven averaged 13.9 ppg slightly higher than his season average of 13.6.

If you toss out the Cal-St Bakersfield game where he played just 13 min in a blowout, then his average during the second half rises to 14.5 ppg.

This is not a picture of a guy breaking down under too much work.

He did have a string of bad games in the beginning of February (@USF, UP, @MEM, SMC) where he averaged just 8.25 ppg and had a terrible shooting % but then he went on to bounce back and average 14.9 ppg during the final 7 games of the season.

THE BOTTOM LINE:
He has shown he can handle big minutes and will do so again. Steven is gonna be THE MAN this year! The only reason we care about the backup SG is if he gets injured (please no!)

Go Zags!

ZZ