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zag buddy
07-28-2010, 04:57 PM
I saw the guys scrimmage from 10pm to 11pm Monday night. Robert Sacre, Steven Gray, Meech, Manny Arop, Sam Dower, Mike Hart and David stockton played. Ira Brown also played plus 4 unknown players. It appeared to be an excellent workout for all. Hardly in midseason form but played hard. I can't report on improvements etc. because it was a little ragtag. I will try and see them again and give a more through report. I will say Sam looked to be more lean and mean than bulked up and standing next to Robert appeared a good 3 inches shorter. Not sure if my observasions were correct but that's the way it looked to me. Also David stockton appeared about an inch shorter that Meech but guarded him adequately and was quite fast on offense. Mike Hart impressed me also.


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BobZag
07-28-2010, 05:04 PM
I'll be entering Dreamland about then.

Thanks for the reports.

Bogozags
07-28-2010, 05:07 PM
It is great news that Manny was able to "play hard!" Which means his foot has healed and he will continue to be a jumping bean!

MickMick
07-28-2010, 06:55 PM
I saw a post the other day that labeled Sam Dower as a rebounding machine.

Sheesh....none of us have seen him play much yet.

The scouting reports described him as an offensive minded player with soft hands. I'm not sold that he is a "banger" until I see it. When I watched him last season in "Kraziness in the Kennel", Josh Heytvelt came to mind. What I saw seemed to confirm the scouting reports. Certainly, his scoring will be a great asset on the offensive end (like Heytvelt was).


I know one player we have all watched that has proven to be a rebounding machine.

That would be Arop.

hooter73
07-28-2010, 06:56 PM
I still really like Mike Hart. Looking forward to some more reports!

northsidezagfan
07-28-2010, 09:10 PM
The scouting reports described him as an offensive minded player with soft hands. I'm not sold that he is a "banger" until I see it. When I watched him last season in "Kraziness in the Kennel", Josh Heytvelt came to mind. What I saw seemed to confirm the scouting reports. Certainly, his scoring will be a great asset on the offensive end (like Heytvelt was).




Keep in mind most of these reports are from when Sam was in high school when he was listed at 200 pounds. There are reports on these boards of him weighing as much as 250 now maybe that changed his game a bit and made him a little more aggressive. I can only hope.

CDC84
07-28-2010, 09:40 PM
I will say Sam looked to be more lean and mean than bulked up and standing next to Robert appeared a good 3 inches shorter.

Sacre is 7-0 and Dower is 6-9, so your observations are pretty accurate.

Sam is never going to be a wide bodied big man. It's not in the genes, and it's not what he's about as a player. That doesn't mean that he can't get in there and rebound with some authority though. He's got a big wingspan and nice athleticism. Add a mean streak to that, block out skills and a nose for the ball, and he should be okay. Easier said than done though.

Purdue's JaJuan Johnson is about Sam's height and weighs at least 30 pounds less than Sam. But that doesn't stop JaJuan from pulling down 7.1 boards per game as a Big 10 center. Not saying I expect Sam to pull down 7.1 boards per game this year, but he is very much capable of that as his career progresses and his PT increases.

cggonzaga
07-28-2010, 10:05 PM
The scouting reports described him as an offensive minded player with soft hands. I'm not sold that he is a "banger" until I see it. When I watched him last season in "Kraziness in the Kennel", Josh Heytvelt came to mind. What I saw seemed to confirm the scouting reports. Certainly, his scoring will be a great asset on the offensive end (like Heytvelt was).

I was one of Heytvelt's biggest supporters on this board. That being said, I saw nothing that was even remotely comparable between him and Sam, and I mean that as a compliment to Sam. IMO, Sam seems much more "active" around the boards. Much like Dennis Rodman, also not a "banger", Sam stays extremely active around the basket and has a nose for the ball. CDC brings up JJ from Purdue as another very good example showing that not everyone has to be Shaq to play under the basket. I also agree that Sam has a mean streak which Josh never developed. I'm huge on Sam this year and think he will become an all time great Bulldog.

Reborn
07-29-2010, 02:27 AM
CDC brings up JJ from Purdue as another very good example showing that not everyone has to be Shaq to play under the basket. I also agree that Sam has a mean streak which Josh never developed. I'm huge on Sam this year and think he will become an all time great Bulldog.

I tend to agree with you. Good post.

I too have compared Sam's size to JJ from PUrdue. Not that I have seen Sam play because I haven't. Just comparing their size. Johnson is one of my favorite Power forwards/centers in the college game today. He is a matchup problem for almost every team I've seen them play.

Reborn
07-29-2010, 02:49 AM
Where is Hyland? Does anyone know? I think it's odd if he's not on campus.
Good to see Rob playing back in Spokane. Where's Kelly?

sanders
07-29-2010, 06:02 AM
Olynyk is in Europe with the Canadian development team. Next game is this Saturday.

CDC84
07-29-2010, 07:33 AM
Over the years I have become more and more convinced that rebounding is less about size and bulk and more about having proper block out skills, effort and a nose for the basketball. When a guy like Dennis Rodman can put up historic rebounding numbers throughout his NBA career as a 6-6 forward without Jordan-like athleticism and a Karl Marlone-like body, you know that different things are at work. Yes, Dennis threw a few elbows in his day, but that doesn't explain how he could collect 18 boards a game night after night.

hooter73
07-29-2010, 07:51 AM
Its a big move for Hyland across the country, hes probably soaking up as much time at home as he can.

Angelo Roncalli
07-29-2010, 07:52 AM
Where is Hyland? Does anyone know? I think it's odd if he's not on campus.
Good to see Rob playing back in Spokane. Where's Kelly?

Hyland has been on campus.

BobZag
07-29-2010, 09:30 AM
Angelo beat me to it. Keegan has been at Gonzaga since the second session of summer school began. About July 1, or earlier.

Frosh are not allowed to help out with camps.

JPtheBeasta
07-29-2010, 09:32 AM
Over the years I have become more and more convinced that rebounding is less about size and bulk and more about having proper block out skills, effort and a nose for the basketball. When a guy like Dennis Rodman can put up historic rebounding numbers throughout his NBA career as a 6-6 forward without Jordan-like athleticism and a Karl Marlone-like body, you know that different things are at work. Yes, Dennis threw a few elbows in his day, but that doesn't explain how he could collect 18 boards a game night after night.

Totally agree- you can't take any possessions off and you have to want it more than the other guy. In recent memory, Pendo had this tenacity and I think that made him "Zags material" for so many.

ZagnetitForce
07-29-2010, 09:39 AM
Frosh are not allowed to help out with camps.

But thay are allowed to participate in the late night scrimmages! This thread helped answer my unaswered post from earlier! Thanks! I'll watch the "boys" scriammage at least one of the next 3 nights!

BobZag
07-29-2010, 10:44 AM
But thay are allowed to participate in the late night scrimmages!

True. :)

maynard g krebs
07-29-2010, 12:40 PM
Rodman once said he knew which way a shot would carom off the rim when a jumper was in midflight. He wasn't bulky but was really strong and knocked more than one bigger guy out of the way. Like Laimbeer and Mahorn, he'd hurt you to get the ball. NBA guys were intimiditated by Rodman like NFL guys were intimidated by the late Jack Tatum.

Manetherendrelle
07-29-2010, 12:56 PM
Will there be more scrimmages that a person could show up to and watch? Is there a place where schedules might be posted? Thanks!

thespywhozaggedme
07-29-2010, 02:24 PM
But thay are allowed to participate in the late night scrimmages! This thread helped answer my unaswered post from earlier! Thanks! I'll watch the "boys" scriammage at least one of the next 3 nights!

And we expect a full report. ;)

BobZag
07-29-2010, 02:35 PM
Will there be more scrimmages that a person could show up to and watch? Is there a place where schedules might be posted? Thanks!

No. These scrimmages are held in conjunction with Team Camps and aren't meant to be public.

dim4sum
07-29-2010, 02:51 PM
I think he could be the sleeper of the year. I expect more quality minutes and I think he will deliver--especially from the three and on d.

thespywhozaggedme
07-29-2010, 06:19 PM
I think he could be the sleeper of the year. I expect more quality minutes and I think he will deliver--especially from the three and on d.

Well now that BK is gone, we'll need someone to fill it up from "3".

Bogozags
07-29-2010, 07:04 PM
Well now that BK is gone, we'll need someone to fill it up from "3".

Watching him last year, it was easy to see how smart he is and he isn't afraid to pass the ball to the open man. Very unselfish BUT he has a stroke that is mechanically sound and dangerous, if he is allowed to pull that trigger.

cggonzaga
07-29-2010, 11:09 PM
I think he could be the sleeper of the year. I expect more quality minutes and I think he will deliver--especially from the three and on d.

I'm not ready to annoint Hart as a sleeper this year but I did see him recently and he is huge. He looked like he might be 6'6" or 6'7" and put on quite a bit of muscle. Maybe someone can confirm the height?

BobZag
07-30-2010, 08:49 AM
I saw Hart up close last spring and he was bigger and taller than expected. I'd be surprised f he less than 6'6".

kitzbuel
07-30-2010, 09:13 AM
Over the years I have become more and more convinced that rebounding is less about size and bulk and more about having proper block out skills, effort and a nose for the basketball. When a guy like Dennis Rodman can put up historic rebounding numbers throughout his NBA career as a 6-6 forward without Jordan-like athleticism and a Karl Marlone-like body, you know that different things are at work. Yes, Dennis threw a few elbows in his day, but that doesn't explain how he could collect 18 boards a game night after night.

See: Rajon Rondo.

Manetherendrelle
07-30-2010, 09:17 AM
Thanks BZ!

cjm720
07-30-2010, 09:18 AM
Rondo's wing span is ridic...but he definitely has the nose for the ball.

ZagnetitForce
08-02-2010, 07:51 AM
OK, I did get to see the guys scrimmage Friday night, but unfortunately nothing much to report. Nobody really stood out and play was a bit sloppy. They do take it seriously though as evidenced by Sam Dower not liking to have to sit if his team lost.

I would say the standouts to me were Hart (last year he was the guy that stood out the most to me as well as Kelly O) and Keegan. Keegan has a nice shot and I really liked his low post entry passes to Sacre.

Gray, Sacre, Manny, Sam, Keegan, Hart and a guy I didn't recogize and couldn't get a name for.....he kind of looked at first glance like Gibbs....but of course it wasn't Grant.

Former players there were Blake Stepp, Kuso, Ira, and Sorrenson.

hooter73
08-02-2010, 08:51 AM
OK, I did get to see the guys scrimmage Friday night, but unfortunately nothing much to report. Nobody really stood out and play was a bit sloppy. They do take it seriously though as evidenced by Sam Dower not liking to have to sit if his team lost.

I would say the standouts to me were Hart (last year he was the guy that stood out the most to me as well as Kelly O) and Keegan. Keegan has a nice shot and I really liked his low post entry passes to Sacre.

Gray, Sacre, Manny, Sam, Keegan, Hart and a guy I didn't recogize and couldn't get a name for.....he kind of looked at first glance like Gibbs....but of course it wasn't Grant.

Former players there were Blake Stepp, Kuso, Ira, and Sorrenson.

Good report and how fun would it be to see all those guys playing together on the same court.

MDABE80
08-02-2010, 10:04 AM
Hart's looked good from the beginning but he's been ignored or at least relegated to the "scout" team as he is a walkon. I think it would be spectacular if he ended up being a very good find. He has the size and the tools....at least he's showed them when given a chance. He was good but not great in his HS career in Portland. When first seen, he looked very good...as good as many on full rides. Could be that he's done some serious development. I hope so. A 6 ft 6 in guard/wing who can handle the ball, pass and drop some points is just what we need. I hope Few and staff found a good one in our own backyard. He's a very nice kid too.

titopoet
08-02-2010, 10:33 AM
Rodman once said he knew which way a shot would carom off the rim when a jumper was in midflight. He wasn't bulky but was really strong and knocked more than one bigger guy out of the way. Like Laimbeer and Mahorn, he'd hurt you to get the ball. NBA guys were intimiditated by Rodman like NFL guys were intimidated by the late Jack Tatum.

He had great anticipation and great bounce and that made him a great rebounder. You cant coach that. Jerome Lane also had that ability at 6'4"

About being tougher. I do remember one time he tried to intimate Reggie Miller in the 98 playoffs, when Antonio Davis went up to him. Rodman whimpered away like little girl with a slipped ice cream cone. Rodman anticipated that Davis could have bent him into four pretzels and his better move be to whuss away. Good move on Rodman's part.

john montana
08-02-2010, 11:56 AM
I don't get all this Hart hype. He seems like a great kid and i bet he does a great job in practice, but from what i've seen of him if he gets big minutes or is our sleeper this year, we could have a problem. Of course i would love for him to come out and blow us all away, but I lean toward the "that would be a massive suprise" camp.

maynard g krebs
08-02-2010, 12:49 PM
He had great anticipation and great bounce and that made him a great rebounder. You cant coach that. Jerome Lane also had that ability at 6'4"

About being tougher. I do remember one time he tried to intimate Reggie Miller in the 98 playoffs, when Antonio Davis went up to him. Rodman whimpered away like little girl with a slipped ice cream cone. Rodman anticipated that Davis could have bent him into four pretzels and his better move be to whuss away. Good move on Rodman's part.

Didn't say he was tougher. I was referencing the fact that those guys played really, really dirty, and had opposing players worrying about being hurt and protecting themselves from injury. Hence the "Bad Boys" nickname. And Stern's office recognized that it was a marketing bonanza and let it go. That was about the time bulk and strength began to trump skill and finesse in the game.

ZagsGoZags
08-21-2010, 02:49 PM
Dear CDC84

I was fascinated to hear you comment on Dennis Rodman's athleticism, rebounding, and height. So much I had to look up his height to believe it.
One of the best NBA rebounders of all time at 6-6 or 6-7. Amazing.

And you have to be correct in comparing his athleticism as less than Michael Jordan's, but I would compare Rodman's athleticism to any in the elite NBA then or now.

Phil Jackson, as I am sure you know, stated "Rodman is the greatest Athlete I have every coached."

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Phil-Jackson-Rodman-is-the-greatest-athlete-I-v?urn=nba-103886

ESB
08-30-2010, 07:39 PM
Hyland was on campus and took 3 classes in the summer.....he went back home to maine and new york city to be with his family and is now back on campus.....