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former1dog
07-23-2010, 10:59 AM
Ok, fantasy land off season thread here. Just for fun.

If you could pick one GU player out of anyone who has ever laced them up for Gonzaga, assuming they are at the height of their collegiate basketball abilities (not pro abilities), to be the foundation of a successful Gonzaga team, who would you pick?

I'll make my pick later after I've given it some thought. Lots of good choices.

Angelo Roncalli
07-23-2010, 11:01 AM
John Houston Stockton, point guard.

stevet75
07-23-2010, 11:06 AM
John Stockton-what he could have done with a healthy talented team around him boggles the mind.

gozagswoohoo
07-23-2010, 11:09 AM
Frank Burgess! And that's just because I would like to see him play!!

former1dog
07-23-2010, 11:10 AM
Adam Morrison immediately comes to mind for me because at the height of his collegiate playing days, he was essentially unstoppable as an offensive player.

The reason he is NOT my pick is that he was a below average defender in college and although he might have been a very capable passer, he was so confident in his own abilities to get the ball in the hole, we didn't see Adam rack up very many assists.

Great, great college player though! He brought so much excitement to the program.

CDC84
07-23-2010, 11:13 AM
Stockton. Choice B would be JP Batista.

Bogozags
07-23-2010, 11:14 AM
I would call in the Calvary, who would arrive in the nick of time!

Rob, Casey, Elias, SG, Meech

KO, Sam, Manny coming off the bench at the 3-5 positions. and Carter and Keegan at the 1/2 positions...that would be a great rotation and I would wager a FF contender.

Heck it is fantasy isn't it!

former1dog
07-23-2010, 11:17 AM
Casey Calvary, who MIGHT end up being my pick, was dominant in a lot of aspects at the height of his collegiate playing ability. I think statistically, he is still our most successful NCAA tournament player.

Casey could score from inside and out. He could defend. He could rebound. He was fierce and he was a leader.

Of course, not factored into my decision, but something to think about. Where would our program be if Casey had not made that fateful tip in a dozen years ago?

Bogozags
07-23-2010, 11:19 AM
Casey Calvary, who MIGHT end up being my pick, was dominant in a lot of aspects at the height of his collegiate playing ability. I think statistically, he is still our most successful NCAA tournament player.

Casey could score from inside and out. He could defend. He could rebound. He was fierce and he was a leader.

Of course, not factored into my decision, but something to think about. Where would our program be if Casey had not made that fateful tip in a dozen years ago?

I don't believe ANYONE at the D1 level could defend that team!

former1dog
07-23-2010, 11:23 AM
OH, just for the fun of it, also. If anyone wants to pick one player from any era off any team to make the college dream team, who would you pick?

That might be hard, but I think names like Russell, Chamberlain, Alcindor, Maravich, Bird, Johnson(Magic), and Walton top the list for starters. I think mine might be Wilt the Stilt. Oops, almost forgot, the Big O, Oscar Robertson, would be in that conversation also.

Bogozags
07-23-2010, 11:36 AM
OH, just for the fun of it, also. If anyone wants to pick one player from any era off any team to make the college dream team, who would you pick?

That might be hard, but I think names like Russell, Chamberlain, Alcindor, Maravich, Bird, Johnson(Magic), and Walton top the list for starters. I think mine might be Wilt the Stilt. Oops, almost forgot, the Big O, Oscar Robertson, would be in that conversation also.

Wilt Chamberlain and Lew Alcindor were the two most dominant big men of all time. They dominated both at the collegiate and NBA level. They well might be the ONLY two players that were so dominant that the NCAA changed rules because of them.

WC - widened the FT Lane and also the ball had to hit the rim on FT's or it was a violation.

LA - the no dunk rule.

former1dog
07-23-2010, 11:40 AM
Wilt Chamberlain and Lew Alcindor were the two most dominant big men of all time. They dominated both at the collegiate and NBA level. They well might be the ONLY two players that were so dominant that the NCAA changed rules because of them.

WC - widened the FT Lane and also the ball had to hit the rim of it was a violation.

LA - the no dunk rule.

Exactly right. I think I'd give a slight nod to Wilt, though, he was an absolutely fantastic athlete besides his obvious basketball skills.

Bogozags
07-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Exactly right. I think I'd give a slight nod to Wilt, though, he was an absolutely fantastic athlete besides his obvious basketball skills.

Not many may remember that he had a "jump shot!" He was unstoppable! I would love to see that championship game, just to see how they took him "out" of the game! Dean Smith played in that game and remember him commenting on Wilt on how it was imperative they prevent him from getting the ball.

former1dog
07-23-2010, 11:50 AM
Not many may remember that he had a "jump shot!" He was unstoppable! I would love to see that championship game, just to see how they took him "out" of the game! Dean Smith played in that game and remember him commenting on Wilt on how it was imperative they prevent him from getting the ball.

Thread getting off the rails, but Wilt was truly a one in a billion specimen of athletic ability, strength, size and skill.

I wonder if Red Auerbach would have some how gotten Wilt instead of Russell if he would have a championship ring for every finger?

sittingon50
07-23-2010, 11:55 AM
Burgess averaged 23.2, 28.9 & 32.4 in successive years in his 3 year career (3 of the top 5 individual Zag seasons). Having never seen him play I don't know if the addition of the 3 pt. line would have inflated those stats much, nor do I know what his supporting cast was like.

Only saw Stockton play a couple of times; a good college player, a great pro.

For me it would have to be Casey. My observations over the years leads me to believe that he absolutely single-handedly willed his teams to victory more than anyone else.

Bogozags
07-23-2010, 11:57 AM
Thread getting off the rails, but Wilt was truly a one in a billion specimen of athletic ability, strength, size and skill.

I wonder if Red Auerbach would have some how gotten Wilt instead of Russell if he would have a championship ring for every finger?



Wilt's team in 1966 was the best of that era. They won more games in a season then any previous team and the only team that broke their record was the MJ/SP team (don't remember the year). My point being that if Wilt would have played for the Celtics in place of Russell, they would have dominated every year, winning every championship and the 33 game winning streak he had with the Lakers would have been set with the Celtics back in the 60's.

That was a great era when basketball was played as it was meant to be played....

zag buddy
07-23-2010, 12:01 PM
My two favorite alltime players are Pistol Pete and Elgin Baylor. I'm not positive but I saw Elgin jump from the freethrow line while shooting a freethrow and dunk it. It is my understanding they changed the rule so you couldn't go over the freethrow line while shooting because of him.

Baldwinzag
07-23-2010, 12:03 PM
If we're talking fantasy here, I'd have to say Blake Stepp playing at 100%, minus the chronic knee problems he faced during his 4 years at GU. He was still a great, legendary Zag, yet would love to see Stepp play again at his peak + at full strength. . .

UberZagFan
07-23-2010, 12:03 PM
AMMO. How quickly we forget. . .

former1dog
07-23-2010, 12:05 PM
AMMO. How quickly we forget. . .

Um...


Adam Morrison immediately comes to mind ...

CDC84
07-23-2010, 12:06 PM
It's interesting to speculate how great Wilt would be today with all the strength, conditioning and sports science that goes into the modern game. I don't think he would score as much as he did back then, but he would obviously be a better player, which is scary to think about.

Russell may have had more of an impact on the game than any big guy ever...even more than Wilt and Alcindor. As John Wooden once mentioned, it was Russell's dominance as a defender and rebounder that changed how coaches looked at the importance of defense in the game of basketball. Before Russell, you pretty much evaluated players on their ability to score. Scouting, practice drills, etc., were pretty much all offensively based. Post-Russell, the game completely changed. Offense was still important, but the defensive strategies got more and more sophisticated, players emerged on the scene who could defend better than score, etc.

UberZagFan
07-23-2010, 12:07 PM
Um...

Yeah yeah yeah....Uber saw that. He was talking about the others. :D

former1dog
07-23-2010, 12:14 PM
Yeah yeah yeah....Uber saw that. He was talking about the others. :D

Well, I guess he was not my pick, though. So, you still have a point.

I'm kind of torn between picking Casey Calvary and one other player, who has not been a popular pick in this thread, but I think very well might top my list.

maynard g krebs
07-23-2010, 12:19 PM
Dan Dickau, but I never saw Stockton at GU. Calvary, Morrison, Santangelo as 1A, 1B, 1C.

maynard g krebs
07-23-2010, 12:34 PM
Wilt's team in 1966 was the best of that era. They won more games in a season then any previous team and the only team that broke their record was the MJ/SP team (don't remember the year). My point being that if Wilt would have played for the Celtics in place of Russell, they would have dominated every year, winning every championship and the 33 game winning streak he had with the Lakers would have been set with the Celtics back in the 60's.

That was a great era when basketball was played as it was meant to be played....

As a kid I lived just outside Philly and was a diehard 6ers fan before Stern ruined the NBA (imo). But I have to disagree with this 100 percent (except for the last sentence). The 66-67 Sixers were the most loaded team I've ever seen, with Luke Jackson dominating every other PF he matched up with inside (the first true PF in the game if memory serves), 20,000 pt scorer Hal Greer, allstar SF Chet Walker, and hof'er Billy Cunningham as 6th man.

While Wilt was physically and athletically superior to Russell, Russell dominated the game mentally like no other player in its history, as spelled out in CDC's post. It's no coincidence that BR and KC Jones won 2 NCAA's at USF and then dominated the NBA thru the 60's.

jazzdelmar
07-23-2010, 12:37 PM
DDDDDDDDDDDDD...................and Johnny Havlicek (w/Beth in the stands) :)

Robzagnut
07-23-2010, 01:11 PM
Thread getting off the rails, but Wilt was truly a one in a billion specimen of athletic ability, strength, size and skill.

I wonder if Red Auerbach would have some how gotten Wilt instead of Russell if he would have a championship ring for every finger?

Auerbach would have less rings if he had Wilt instead of Russell. Russell was a winner pure and simple. Wilt played in an era where you fouled out if you got 5 fouls, and NEVER fouled out of a game! Why? Once he got 4 fouls he quit playing hard... that tells you the difference between the two.

Russell has all those rings in college and the pros for a reason and Wilt has the lack of them for a different reason.

jpwils
07-23-2010, 02:42 PM
Dan Dickau with Matt Santangelo close behind.

Never saw Stockton in college.

MickMick
07-23-2010, 02:50 PM
Calvary.

former1dog
07-23-2010, 02:55 PM
Ok, I think I've made my pick.

He was fantastic. A statistical leader on both offense and defense. A leader and a winner. He played four years and was a starter for four years. I think he might just be Mark Few's first pick in this hypothetical.

If I wanted to start a team for Gonzaga and got to pick any player from any era at the peak of their collegiate ability, I would pick this player every day of the week and twice on Sunday.





































Blake Stepp

Gufan
07-23-2010, 03:30 PM
What Former said, except 3 times on Sunday

hondo
07-23-2010, 04:08 PM
Franklin Burgess, I may have seen every game he played in Spokane and he was absolutely amazing. The 3 point line would have added 2 or 3 points to his average. Excellent rebounder and deadly in the clutch situations. If he had a fault it was that he was too unselfish.

seasontixholder
07-23-2010, 05:12 PM
John Stockton. Great all-around player. Fierce competitor. An absolute stud in his senior year. Shooter. Passer. Thief. Brain.

Put JS on any team from the past decade and it is improved. On 6 of the last 7 years, and who knows how far they would have gone. The vast majority of the bad Dance losses are reversed, including UCLA. THE missing ingredient.

bartruff1
07-23-2010, 06:25 PM
Franklin Burgess, I may have seen every game he played in Spokane and he was absolutely amazing. The 3 point line would have added 2 or 3 points to his average. Excellent rebounder and deadly in the clutch situations. If he had a fault it was that he was too unselfish.Yup....maybe a additional 4 or 5 to his average....Frank had less help than the others.... I have seen them all....Blake 2nd...

kitzbuel
07-23-2010, 07:52 PM
The 3 point line would have added 2 or 3 points to his average.

Especially with that 40 foot set shot he had. :eek:

bigblahla
07-23-2010, 09:55 PM
Blake with good knees or Casey? Casey, there was a fire in his belly, probably still is. The will to win isn't in everyone to some it's just a game.

Go!! Zags!!!

MickMick
07-24-2010, 05:29 AM
Blake with good knees or Casey? Casey, there was a fire in his belly, probably still is. The will to win isn't in everyone to some it's just a game.

Go!! Zags!!!

Lot's of great Zags had the will to win, but Calvary had it the most.

More than a will to win, Ammo simply hated to lose. He took losses hard.

Stepp's courage to play through pain (and at a high level) is worth mention.

I don't know if "hate to lose", "play through pain", and "will to win" can be considered the same, but these players left everything on the court.

If I'm starting a team, the first thing I want to do is to bring in the "aura" that these young men brought to the table. You need that "infectuous" atmosphere where the whole team catches the disease.

Forced to choose just one, I choose Calvary........though I could easily "settle" for any of them.

ZagsObserver
07-24-2010, 06:29 AM
Absolutely Adam Morrison...the guy could score at will!

MDABE80
07-24-2010, 10:48 AM
Burgess led the country in scoring twice at a time when nobody but Oscar did. Frank would have to be my pick.
John was obviously a spectacular pro....and had more demonstrated ability although it's good to remember that the college game has changed in the ensuing 25 years.....

Here's an idea: If John had never entered the pros and stopped at the end of college, who would you pick? Obviously Burgess. If a line was drawn demarcating 98 forward or backward....this discussion would be very different.

bartruff1
07-24-2010, 11:45 AM
My memory may be fading and I don't intend to look it up...but, as I remember it... Burgess was in a very very tight race with Oscar for the scoring title and it came down to the last game...because of the time zone difference, Oscar played first and as a result Frank was now in the lead and if he didn't play in some meaningless away game (I think it was Idaho) he was the winner.....I believe he was even sick... BUT as you might expect if you knew him...he played..and won the title on the floor...now...if I have been wrong the last 50 years or so... don't correct me.... WTF...just humor me...:)

titopoet
07-24-2010, 12:52 PM
John Stockton,
His senior season ave 20.9 pts and 7.2 assists on 57 % shooting and he had 3.89 steals per game.
If playing with this year's team at his prime. both Harris and Sacre would be 20 pt scorers the way he makes players better.

MDABE80
07-24-2010, 01:15 PM
Good point Tito. I was thinking of the entire body of collge play.

stevet75
07-24-2010, 02:40 PM
Forget Stockton's pro career, he was still one of the best, if not the best, college basketball player to come out of the NW. He not only made those around him better, but he controlled the game. Often he was told to slow it down, and he did, but if allowed to run the show, on the court, he controlled everything that went on.
In the early 80's I was a traveling auditor for a food service company and I would travel all over the West. In Utah, Idaho, Montana, and parts of Nevada, often the first thing people would say to me when they found I was from Spokane is, "Have you seen John Stockton play". He was only unknown to the Califonia and Eastern sports press. The Utah Jazz knew who he was, and knew they had a winner when they picked John Stockton.

CarolinaZagFan
07-25-2010, 09:34 AM
I think for a player to add to this year's team it's gotta be either Stepp or Dickau.

For my other fantasy team from any school, David Thompson has to be in the starting five.

MickMick
07-25-2010, 09:48 AM
I think for a player to add to this year's team it's gotta be either Stepp or Dickau.

For my other fantasy team from any school, David Thompson has to be in the starting five.

I know this thread is about former Zags, but now that you mentioned David Thompson.......

People talk about the hops of Nate Robinson. Thompson was in a league of his own. He could really drive the lane to take advantage of it too. Great, great player.

For me, the dominance in the NCAA tournament by Danny Manning left a long lasting imprint on my brain. The ultimate definition of a player putting a team on his back and taking them to the promise land.

kclubfounder
07-25-2010, 09:57 AM
John Stockton

In the "from anywhere" category, I haven't seen Bill Walton's name. He wasn't too shabby in college.

lawprof99
07-25-2010, 10:16 AM
I watched Frank Burgess play against Idaho for two of his three years. John Stockton was a different kind of player so it is hard to compare the two. But Burgess, with a four year career and a three point lane would have been even more incredible than he was. Burgess

MDABE80
07-25-2010, 01:11 PM
Well lawprof...truth be known is that if Frank had a 3 pt line and had 4 years, he might have been aong the top 5 scorers in NCAA history. Most of his work was beyond the 3 pt line.....I don't know his shooting percentages but he was among the best LD shooters I've seen.

Mick...David..had he not gotten hooked on bad habits would have been among the most memorable players in NBA history. He was the first true "Skywalker" and when he lifted off he seemed to float while he was up there. Something about him was otherworldly....kind of like time was suspended. Such a sad story as to how his career became shortened.

thickman1
07-25-2010, 03:09 PM
The first guy that popped into my head was Blake Stepp. I loved watching him play. He always appeared in control and oh the daggers he'd through from 20+ feet. I wish he had better knees...still though, that's my guy. Mr. Stepp.

ZagInTexas
07-26-2010, 08:32 AM
I'm going with my profile pic guy, Ronny! I loved his energy that he brought every night. That was one of the most enjoyable things to watch. He impacted the game on both ends and he was just a great guy to root for. As for guards, I would say Stepp or Dickau. Can't go wrong with either. Both scored at will and made their teammates better.

bartruff1
07-26-2010, 09:14 AM
So many great players but if winning championships was the goal, I would have to go with Bill Russell... I think at one time, he led his teams to the basketball Tripple Crown ... the NCAA Championship....Olympic Gold Medal...and the NBA Championship....ps...as great a skywalker as Thompson was...IMHO, Elgin was the first...

Robzagnut
07-26-2010, 11:22 AM
Calvary.

His tip put GU on the map. His tenacity kept them there. No other starting player in GU history has been to three Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight.

Nuff said.

TerpZag
07-26-2010, 11:34 AM
David Thompson was just an amazing college basketball player, especially to see in person. He just seemed to have the knack of taking over a game at any time.

David Thompson broke the back of many a Maryland team and put a dagger in the heart of many a Maryland fan.

The first Super Bowl Sunday game in 1973 and the ACC Tournament Final OT game in 1974 both stand out for me.

If my memory is correct, Thompson played during a time when dunking was not permitted. He did dunk during the final minutes of his last regular season game and promptly received a technical and a standing ovation.

http://www.statefansnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/david-Thompson.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_RVLfSMIB7K0/SabJtHUj-uI/AAAAAAAATBY/J9_tdHe9ULs/s320/NCStateMD.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_la2W1OaJGn8/SbkoE5D4AiI/AAAAAAAAA4Q/4W8Ax2MqY10/s400/0312davidthompson.JPG

titopoet
07-26-2010, 01:26 PM
In fantasy time, how about Prof. Ned Brainard? The zags would block almost every shot and just imagine the dunks.:)

HillBillyZag
07-26-2010, 01:51 PM
I would pick Stockton if I had one choice . . If I could have them all in their prime for four 'more years my starters would be;
PG-John Stockton
SG,Dan Dickeau
C Ronny Turiaf
PF Casy Calvary
SF Adam Morrison
give me these guys and I'll play anyone , anytime , any where !

Spokanicoug
07-28-2010, 07:30 PM
I still remember watching the game where Stepp made 8 STRAIGHT 3s in the 2nd half. That.was.awesome.


But I'd still take Calvary.

Zag79
07-28-2010, 09:11 PM
PG-John Stockton
SG Dan Dickeau
C Ronny Turiaf
PF Casy Calvary
SF Adam Morrison

i just drooled. :D

sonuvazag
07-28-2010, 09:22 PM
i just drooled. :D
time to fire up the ps3

Zag79
07-28-2010, 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zag79
i just drooled.

time to fire up the ps3

:D and you know this mannnnnnn!

JIMMYMAC
07-31-2010, 09:41 PM
This question has come up before in my circle of friends. I also think Few would agree....hands down - and look up the historical records yourself - it's gotta be Blake Stepp. What a warrior.